Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Tampa Bay Mike Williams... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter pack66
- Start date
Traded for him after week 1, so MW newbie here (other than watching every game at Syracuse before he got kicked off the team a couple times).He looks fine out there. TB was really pounding it out there with Blount. Blount stats werent pretty, but he really did a fine job hammering that ATL defense. Freeman looked for MW in the EZ once or twice. They were looking for MW in all areas of the field, put him in motion and he got open a reasonable amount of time. The Bucs had a lead and werent looking to take too many chances today. Im really not too concerned right yet. His primary risk-factor is team passing yds.
SlevinKelevra
Footballguy
Michael Clayton part II
You obviously dont watch much Bucs games if you really think M. Williams is anything like that bum.
eakfootball
Footballguy
Williams should be fine. I think he has had 2 TDs called back by penalties already.
You can't ask the TB homers because we can't watch the games. F'n blackouts. 
That said, Freeman hasn't looked sharp yet. I have faith that he will continue developing as the season progresses, which makes Mike Williams a fine buy low target right now.
That said, Freeman hasn't looked sharp yet. I have faith that he will continue developing as the season progresses, which makes Mike Williams a fine buy low target right now.
Last edited by a moderator:
packersfan
Footballguy
I'm very concerned. He had a great matchup against the Falcons (a team he owned last season) and did nothing of substance. The five receptions were nice but he isn't making plays downfield. Freeman didn't look sharp yesterday and there were times he didn't even look for Williams. I recall one play in the Red Zone when Williams ran a crossing route and was wide open and Freeman literally turned and ran away from him. Those two had a great connection last season but outside of the TD grab in Week 1 it hasn't been there this season. I think Williams and Freeman are both talented so it's tough for me to quit Tampa Mike but I'm very frustrated and may toss his name around my league in trade talks to gauge his value. Of course, the second I trade him, the talent will likely rise to the top.
I was at the Falcons game. Williams was the only receiver to stay on the field all three downs. On most drives, Benn was on the field for 1st and 2nd downs but came off for 3rd down. On 3rd down during 3 wide receiver sets, Parker and Briscoe came on the field. Williams is the top receiver on the team.
Freeman is the problem, right now. Freeman consistently threw the ball high or behind the receiver. He didn't complete too many passes without the receiver having to stop or reach behind him to catch the ball. Freeman could not make a hit receiver without the receiver slowing or stopping, making hard for the YAC.
Williams should be fine.
Freeman is the problem, right now. Freeman consistently threw the ball high or behind the receiver. He didn't complete too many passes without the receiver having to stop or reach behind him to catch the ball. Freeman could not make a hit receiver without the receiver slowing or stopping, making hard for the YAC.
Williams should be fine.
Quez
Footballguy
cubbie5150
Footballguy
That he apparently can't beatHe's also drawing some double coverage.
ThePittbully
Footballguy
More like Freeman can't get him the ballThat he apparently can't beat
togo
Footballguy
2 catches in the 1st half for 23 yards. What has happened to this guy??
I'm battling for high score of the week in our league (we get bonus points) to another owner in our league who has Preston Parker. We were tied at the start of the night.
I thought I'd be ok but Parker has 2 catches for 24 yards but also has return yardage and now is ahead of me at this point.
Looks like Freeman doesn't look for Wiliams much.
I'm battling for high score of the week in our league (we get bonus points) to another owner in our league who has Preston Parker. We were tied at the start of the night.
I thought I'd be ok but Parker has 2 catches for 24 yards but also has return yardage and now is ahead of me at this point.
Looks like Freeman doesn't look for Wiliams much.
Cross-posted from the game thread:
All teams are playing multiple guys deep in zone against the Bucs; Blount hasnt made anybody put 8 up yet it seems or anything close to it. Freeman apparently got a reputation as a deep ball thrower last year and they are making it easy for him throw underneath.
It's not like JF is checking down b/c MW isnt open. JF's first choice is clearly #82/#34. It would be nice if they put #19 in the slot a little and let him get some of that...
-
All teams are playing multiple guys deep in zone against the Bucs; Blount hasnt made anybody put 8 up yet it seems or anything close to it. Freeman apparently got a reputation as a deep ball thrower last year and they are making it easy for him throw underneath.
It's not like JF is checking down b/c MW isnt open. JF's first choice is clearly #82/#34. It would be nice if they put #19 in the slot a little and let him get some of that...
-
Last edited by a moderator:
Wreckincrew
Footballguy
Any updates? Perhaps a live scoring link?
pghrob
Footballguy
I am a big TB Mike Williams fan. I drafted him last year for my 12 team PPR dynasty league in the 4th round of the rookie draft. You know how good he did. This year, I am hurting at RB with the loss of J. Charles and Foster's slow start. My only other viable option at was DeAngelo Williams. Since my league is only a start 2 wr league, I traded Mike Williams for Jonathan Stewart. Hopefully I did not give up too much, but I have a desperate need to get some rb depth. Mike Williams has a long and bright future.
ROYALWITCHEESE
Footballguy
This seems out of place.
RhymesMcJuice
Footballguy
I would be concerned if I owned Mike Williams. Parker is quicker and is becoming a big part of the offense. On top of that you have Benn looming in the background. It's not that MW is bad - far from it - but I don't think he's a true #1 receiver and we may have already seen his ceiling.
shnikies
Footballguy
I don't know how he doesn't have upside after 11 touchdowns as a rookie. Freeman had been playing poorly up until tonight. Blount has been running really well and that will really help, especially inside the ten when teams won't have the luxury of keeping their safety over the top. He'll have a multi-touchdown game soon and everyone will chill out. Full disclosure: I don't own him in any of the four zillion leagues I'm in.
Last edited by a moderator:
cubbie5150
Footballguy
Well, we're 1/4 of the way through the regular season, & I think time for excuse-making is done. I was mistaken in taking this guy again this year. Guess I felt some stupid loyalty after he did it for me as a late Rd gem in '10. What are other owners doing? Benching him until further notice (depending upon your options)? I was hoping for a 5/80/1 kind of game week 4 so I could move him this week, but that's out the window. Already received joke texts from a couple friends that it's the "Blount & Parker show" in Tampa the rest of the way, so trading him for anything worthwhile is likely out the window. Guessing I'll hold & see if I can feel like he is anything more than a 7-8 pts/week (.5 ppr) kind of guy.
togo
Footballguy
Yeah a big disappointment so far. It's funny when you have players you really key in on them during the game. Couple of things I noticed. Freeman doesn't look at him much as I thought he would. Especially in the red zone. I thought he was his go to guy. I know the defense may have dictated this but I didn't see the gunslinger in Freeman I thought he was. He didn't throw really any deep balls all night which Williams got last year. Also Williams always looks late getting off the line. I mean real late, like a delay, and not a real speedy first few steps. Looking too much??
Last edited by a moderator:
Defenses are playing off on the Bucs. Blount's success has not brought 8 in the box at all...yet. Freeman had one of the best deep balls in the league last year; how many attempts has he had where the ball travels 35+ yds this year? Zero last night. And I noticed none vs the Falcons or Vikings.
Defenses are taking it away and clearly JF is targeting #34 and #82 first because of it. I doubt JF likes that very much, but he is taking what the defenses give and has won 3 in a row. Meanwhile, Parker is in the slot and getting some of #34/#82 targets; not MWs.
Despite all of this, MW has 30 targets. Benn has 14. It's not close. Incidentally, Earnest Graham has 28 targets. So unless you want to add Earnest Graham to the list of "emerging Bucs pass catchers"; I think the only alternative is to be patient with MW. Defenses will have to adjust to this or they will continue to lose to the Bucs on these long, multi-first-down drives.
-
Last edited by a moderator:
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
I'm really concerned with the playcalling and decision making of Freeman. Too often he opts for the checkdown and dink and dunk game. And while that did have some success at times, over time the defenses creep up and make you pay for being so conservative. I was hoping that Tampa would be more aggressive downfield. This doesn't bode well for TBMW, even though I think he's at worse a decent WR3 in PPR. May be time to sell while his value holds. Certainly not what was expected when he was chosen by many (myself included) as a WR2.
cheese
Footballguy
The stats agree with you, but one thing I notice is that almost all of this comes in the 2 minute offense. When they close out the half or game, he seems to throw like 6 straight passes to Graham or TEs. MW gets plenty of looks in the normal offense. You would definitely think that the Bucs should be able to hit a deep one sometimes as much as they run and throw underneath, but I'm not even convinced MW would be the one to capitalize on that. They have a few burners that might get those big ones.Anyway, I'm a concerned TBMW supporter along with you guys.
Area51Inhabitant
Footballguy
I haven't watched Tampa play much this year but it looked like last night they didn't trust their protection off the edges vs Freeney & Mathis so they couldn't really do much down the field stuff especially with Blount pounding the Colts the way he way and the screens and shorter stuff working well vs the deep zones the Colts were playing. Certainly cause for concern though especially with dropping 2 very catch-able balls.
packersfan
Footballguy
I think Williams is more talented and has a more talented QB to work with than Clayton but this analogy isn't far off - unfortunately for Williams owners.Clayton's First 4 Games In Year 2
17-196-0
Williams' First 4 Games In Year 2
15-155-1
As a Williams owner, I'm officially concerned.
buy buy buy
Kitrick Taylor
Footballguy
I swear, this board is filled with a bunch of nervous nellies.
First of all Williams isn't even close to being "Micheal Clayton part deux." Its cute you can be so clever though...
Next, this Rotoworld claim that he's having difficulty getting separation is bunk. He didn't seem to have much trouble finding the holes in zones last night, and on more than one occasion I saw him running away from the defender on crossing routes. Being open in the NFL doesn't necessitate having a step or two on the defender. CBs are good, and most are faster than the big WRs of the league. WRs like Williams catch quite a few of their passes using their size.
His night wasn't perfect, but I thought Williams looked like a big, smooth athlete out there. He also looked to be a big part of the Bucs offense with 8 targets. Keep in mind, Williams game isn't like Wes Welkers'. He doesn't frequently get 7+ catch games. He typically catches 4-5 balls a week, and is more of a big play/TD threat. There were some people on this board that used to bash Greg Jennings for the same thing. Being that type of WR lends itself to having extended FF scoring slumps. By the end of the year though, Jennings always had the numbers. I suspect we'll see the same from Williams this year.
Week 1, he scored his TD and had a respectable fantasy week. Week 3, his TD was called back by an Arrelious Benn illegal motion penalty. Week 4, he cost himself a 100 yard game by dropping a pass or two.
Another thing to consider is this is a young offense. Defensive Coordinators were able to get a full season of tape on them from last year, and have adjusted how they are playing the Bucs. Clearly one of their priorities is to take away Mike Williams. It is taking time for Tampa Bay to adjust to that.
First of all Williams isn't even close to being "Micheal Clayton part deux." Its cute you can be so clever though...
Next, this Rotoworld claim that he's having difficulty getting separation is bunk. He didn't seem to have much trouble finding the holes in zones last night, and on more than one occasion I saw him running away from the defender on crossing routes. Being open in the NFL doesn't necessitate having a step or two on the defender. CBs are good, and most are faster than the big WRs of the league. WRs like Williams catch quite a few of their passes using their size.
His night wasn't perfect, but I thought Williams looked like a big, smooth athlete out there. He also looked to be a big part of the Bucs offense with 8 targets. Keep in mind, Williams game isn't like Wes Welkers'. He doesn't frequently get 7+ catch games. He typically catches 4-5 balls a week, and is more of a big play/TD threat. There were some people on this board that used to bash Greg Jennings for the same thing. Being that type of WR lends itself to having extended FF scoring slumps. By the end of the year though, Jennings always had the numbers. I suspect we'll see the same from Williams this year.
Week 1, he scored his TD and had a respectable fantasy week. Week 3, his TD was called back by an Arrelious Benn illegal motion penalty. Week 4, he cost himself a 100 yard game by dropping a pass or two.
Another thing to consider is this is a young offense. Defensive Coordinators were able to get a full season of tape on them from last year, and have adjusted how they are playing the Bucs. Clearly one of their priorities is to take away Mike Williams. It is taking time for Tampa Bay to adjust to that.
packersfan
Footballguy
I'm a believer that talent tends to win out and I do believe Williams is talented. I also agree that RotoWorld's claim that he isn't getting separation is bunk. That hasn't been the case in the games I've seen.
However, I don't see defenses taking Williams away. What I saw (especially last night) was Freeman not often looking to Williams, instead being more willing to dump the ball off to backs and tight ends. Williams also didn't get a single Red Zone target that I can remember. Last season, he feasted on defenses in the Red Zone and Freeman consistently looked for him - even when he was covered. The Bucs have been struggling in the Red Zone this season. Perhaps their reluctance to utilize Williams there is a factor.
I didn't view Williams as someone who was going to catch 85+ passes. But I did think based on what he showed last season that he could again be a strong source for touchdowns and big plays. So far this season, neither has happened.
It's a long season and I'm not giving up on Williams but I don't think it's an over-reaction for his owners to be concerned when the primary things he did well last season have yet to be seen.
However, I don't see defenses taking Williams away. What I saw (especially last night) was Freeman not often looking to Williams, instead being more willing to dump the ball off to backs and tight ends. Williams also didn't get a single Red Zone target that I can remember. Last season, he feasted on defenses in the Red Zone and Freeman consistently looked for him - even when he was covered. The Bucs have been struggling in the Red Zone this season. Perhaps their reluctance to utilize Williams there is a factor.
I didn't view Williams as someone who was going to catch 85+ passes. But I did think based on what he showed last season that he could again be a strong source for touchdowns and big plays. So far this season, neither has happened.
It's a long season and I'm not giving up on Williams but I don't think it's an over-reaction for his owners to be concerned when the primary things he did well last season have yet to be seen.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
Every word of this. And the emergence of Parker and Benn is only going to help.
Last edited by a moderator:
LittlePhatty
Footballguy
That's great for him and the Bucs, but it doesn't equate to fantasy points.Freeman is spreading the ball around more. And he's 19th in the league in passing yards, so it's not like there's a lot to go around.Season yardage so far: Preston Parker 16 / 223 Kellen Winslow 17 / 163 Mike Williams 15 / 155 Earnest Graham 23 / 143 Arrelious Benn 9 / 114So you either have to believe that Williams will pick up the slack with some TD production (he'll need a pace of nearly 1 per game to match last year - 10 TDs in the next 12 games), or you have to believe that Tampa's game plan isn't leaning on him as much as last year.He may be a stud in real life, but after 4 weeks his fantasy production is just slightly behind guys like Mohamed Massaquoi and Doug Baldwin.
shnikies
Footballguy
Clayton played for the same team as Mike Williams! Duh, of course he is Michael Clayton Part Deux!
Defenses are clearly dictating their approach to the TB offense; not one deep ball was thrown last night or the previous two weeks that I can recall. Not one (Benn's penalty was a catch and run). And JF is one of the better deep ball throwers in the league. They simply didnt try to force it and they won with dink and dunk. You can conclude that:1. defenses will no longer employ this tactic because TB has won three in a row against it and MW will be a-ok when he stops getting someone over the top of him constantly, or
2. that TB and JF/MW in particular are not good enough to dictate their style to the defense (no matter what defensive strategy is employed) and therefore they're not ready for fantasy stardom. This is a logical conclusion, but I disagree that it prevails here, and/or,
3. TB needs to stick MW in the slot more and get him some touches. His long 3rd down conversion from the 45 last night should be Exhibit A for this strategy. They said they'd be doing that more, but it hasnt materialized probably because Parker cant handle the outside; not the other way around.
I dont think you can conclude that the passing is being shifted to Earnest Graham and Parker as a deliberate strategy of TB's offense. Taking what the defense gives them has been a winning strategy for the better part of a month and, frankly, TB doesnt care about MWs production if he and JF's deep ball threat are part of the reason why defenses are hand-feeding them short passes to Graham and Parker that result in Tampa W's.
-
Last edited by a moderator:
packersfan
Footballguy
This is one of the chief concerns I have as a Williams owner. As long as the Bucs keep winning with the dink-and-dunk strategy I don't see an impetus for them to change. Even last night with the game on the line, they ignored Williams in the fourth quarter, short-passed the Colts to death and then dropped the Blount hammer on them to win the game. That's been a successful NFL strategy so far but it's destroying Williams' fantasy value. Until the Bucs start struggling and/or losing with that approach I'm not sure it's going to change.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Guys, before you trade or dismiss Williams, take a look at his remaining schedule. All games but one against good offenses. Bucs will likely have to open up their offense going forward to keep up with their opponents. Mike will benefit from that.
Couple of flukey non-TDs this year have everyone with their panties in a bunch. I am putting in some lowball offers for him this week in case I can steal him based on the negativity here.
Couple of flukey non-TDs this year have everyone with their panties in a bunch. I am putting in some lowball offers for him this week in case I can steal him based on the negativity here.
cubbie5150
Footballguy
I swear I read pre-season comments attributed to OC Olson that he planned to move Mike around to get him the ball more. Did I imagine that? Cuz it isn't happening. Damn me for listening to coach-speak (unless I made it up in my mind)
Apple Jack
Footballguy
I think he's one of the better, if not the best, buy low WRs out there right now. Maybe one more week. Many of his owners are ready to cut bait. But he's too good for the numbers he's been putting up and defenses respecting Benn and Parker going forward are going to open up some over the top shots that haven't been there to date. I'm not expecting WR1 numbers, but certainly better than what he's been doing.
Last edited by a moderator:
Grahamburn
Footballguy
He was in motion quite a bit last night. A couple of his receptions came while he was being moved around. Teams are playing soft zones against Tampa right now because Freeman still struggles a little bit to read defenses. He's a much deadlier QB working off of play action against man coverage.
Indy was running their linebackers 10-15 yards away from the line of scrimmage to help in coverage because they've struggled so much lately defending the pass. Why wouldn't Freeman dump it to Graham for an easy 10 yards?
With Tampa's committment to the run, Benn and Parker emerging, and Winslow/Graham running the shorter routes I don't see Williams becoming the elite WR many of us thought he'd be this season. It's great for the Bucs' offense as a unit, but not so much for Williams' fantasy owners. There just isn't a large enough passing pie.
I expect 60-80 yards a game with some TDs sprinkled in here and there. He'll probably finish the season with around 900 yards and 6-7 TDs.
Indy was running their linebackers 10-15 yards away from the line of scrimmage to help in coverage because they've struggled so much lately defending the pass. Why wouldn't Freeman dump it to Graham for an easy 10 yards?
With Tampa's committment to the run, Benn and Parker emerging, and Winslow/Graham running the shorter routes I don't see Williams becoming the elite WR many of us thought he'd be this season. It's great for the Bucs' offense as a unit, but not so much for Williams' fantasy owners. There just isn't a large enough passing pie.
I expect 60-80 yards a game with some TDs sprinkled in here and there. He'll probably finish the season with around 900 yards and 6-7 TDs.
Chaka
Footballguy
I am sure he absolutely intended to get him the ball more but games develop organically and implementing plans is always much harder than drawing them up.My guess is that the Bucs did not anticipate playing against so much Cover-2 D and they have had to adjust their game plan accordingly.
