Tanking in a dynasty league... (1 Viewer)

[FUBAR]

My league just added the rule that the consolation bracket now plays for draft position, and this has worked out so far. I really like this approach, because you best improve your draft position by winning.

I love that, have thought about it a bunch of times, and swear if I ever start and commish a dynasty league I'd have it in the rules. Best solution of all IMO. Say, 14-team league, top eight make playoffs, remaining six play the consolation tourney for picks #1-6. Everyone will be trying to win all year. Structure money payouts so that no team would tank to just miss the playoffs in hopes of getting the #1 pick (especially since they could lose in the consolation tourney and end up with pick #5 or 6 and win no money).

I have never seen it in a league though, so kudos to you guys.

To those who would argue that the bottom team should just get the #1 pick (and that's most folks), I would say that there usually isn't a lot of difference between the bottom six teams usually (unless an owner is really clueless, and then he should probably move on). It's often a matter of injuries or bad luck that puts a team in the position to really suck by about week 8 and start thinking about maximizing future value rather than winning this year.

I do not agree with the bottom teams having a playoff for the first pick. The worst team should get the first pick. The best thing I have seen to address this is for draft order to be determined by best possible points, instead of points scored. That eliminates lineup decisions determining anything. If there is a negative to this, I haven't seen it. The true worst team gets the higher picks, and that's how it should be.

I think this is the best idea I've heard yet. We had a hugs issue in my dynasty league with an owner tanking to get Calvin Johnson a few years ago. he had a bad run of injuries that put him in the running for the #1 pick and he tanked a game at the end and got Calvin the next year. We won the championship the previous year and has since won two more.

We put in a rule about tanking and even tried a draft lottery. I just don't like the randomness of the lottery even though it is weighted. I am going to push this at the next owners meeting.

Most people I knew were more interested in getting Peterson, but if they were "in contention" for a top 2 pick, they certainly wanted to get one of the two.

 

[Sweet Love]

My league just added the rule that the consolation bracket now plays for draft position, and this has worked out so far. I really like this approach, because you best improve your draft position by winning.

In my Keep 3 we had to institute a similar rule because someone did tank and of course it was close enough where it was not covered under the rule (really, who is to say Donald Jones may not have a bigger week one week than Stevie Johnson). The great part about it is what was started as a safeguard, has actually become fun if you miss the playoffs. I missed the playoffs my first couple of years in the league when we did not have this rule, and I have to admit, it got quite boring towards the end.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

First - personnel decisions should be made in the best interests of your team. Second - start your best players for the given week.

These two are sometimes at odds.

 

[mbuehner]

Create a losers bracket for non-playoff teams with the reward being the #1 pick. Removes most of the incentive to tank and creates an incentive to keep your team competitive in trade, FA.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

All these posts are talking about solutions...while that's great, it's not what this thread is about.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

All these posts are talking about solutions...while that's great, it's not what this thread is about.

That's because most people get the idea that tanking is disruptive and anti-competitive.

 

[2and2is5]

i keep hearing the idea of a #1 pick bracket for the non-playoff teams - where in effect the middle of the road teams would get the #1 pick and that doesn't make sense year over year - the true bottom teams would never improve

what if the #1 pick bracket rules were as follows

-bracket is reverse seeded - last place teams plays the team that just missed the playoffs by 1

-loser of each games moves on -

-opposing teams set each others lineups (based on rostered players - no FA moves or trades- should be past trade deadline anwyway)- you're trying

to get that team to beat you so you can improve your pick

-so weeks 14-17 or whatever your playoffs are - the team that loses the most wins the #1 pick and so on up the line

crazy idea?

 

[FUBAR]

First - personnel decisions should be made in the best interests of your team. Second - start your best players for the given week.

These two are sometimes at odds.

They need to be considered separately. If you have a player on your team that you think will outscore another, you start that player you predict to score higher. But that doesn't mean you have to have them on your team to begin with. For example, trading Darren Sproles for a 1st round pick would be a legitimate move.Benching Darren Sproles for CJ Spiller would be highly suspect.

 

[mbuehner]

All these posts are talking about solutions...while that's great, it's not what this thread is about.

Ok, heres a solution- disband your league and start fresh with a complete set of rules so you dont bump into well known problems midseason. You dont have rules in place, what kind of advice do you expect?

 

[Dr. Awesome]

All these posts are talking about solutions...while that's great, it's not what this thread is about.

Ok, heres a solution- disband your league and start fresh with a complete set of rules so you dont bump into well known problems midseason. You dont have rules in place, what kind of advice do you expect?

I'm not really looking for advice. But thank you for your well thought out opinion.

 

[krsone21]

I personally would never tank on purpose. I always play my best players and try to play the spoiler if I can. Now I don't have a problem with a person traiding players away if they want to rebuild, because those are two different scenarios. I would have a problem with someone if they started a horrible lineup on purpose because they wanted a highter draft pick.

 

[womb]

Matters that touch the realm of ethics are always on the table to be debated. Each side strongly argues their position and believes they have a point. I trust that a good system should eliminate or mitigate such matters to address operational risk, so that people do not even want to discuss such things. In this case for example, the league can easily employ in its rules that the seeding to the non-playoff teams will be addressed with a different formula. Also to avoid tanking games right before playoffs, it can also employ weekly benefits to teams that end up not making the playoffs. That way teams do play for making the best choices by nature.

One such idea is this: Employ trade deadline at week X. Playoffs start at week P. For weeks X to P, tally weekly scores and rank them. At week P, cross of the teams from the tally that end up making the playoffs. Then pay out the top scorers on the weekly tally. Reverse rank those teams at week P, schedule a bracket and make them battle it out for the rookie draft position with a similar methodology employed for the playoff teams.

 

[The Comedian]

Trading off players for draft picks or youth is not tanking.

Trying to make your team perform worse than it actually is is tanking. And no, it is not okay, even in dynasty leagues.

 

[Jersey35]

Trading off players for draft picks or youth is not tanking.Trying to make your team perform worse than it actually is is tanking. And no, it is not okay, even in dynasty leagues.

This is the correct answer.

 

[squistion]

Matters that touch the realm of ethics are always on the table to be debated. Each side strongly argues their position and believes they have a point. I trust that a good system should eliminate or mitigate such matters to address operational risk, so that people do not even want to discuss such things. In this case for example, the league can easily employ in its rules that the seeding to the non-playoff teams will be addressed with a different formula. Also to avoid tanking games right before playoffs, it can also employ weekly benefits to teams that end up not making the playoffs. That way teams do play for making the best choices by nature.

One such idea is this: Employ trade deadline at week X. Playoffs start at week P. For weeks X to P, tally weekly scores and rank them. At week P, cross of the teams from the tally that end up making the playoffs. Then pay out the top scorers on the weekly tally. Reverse rank those teams at week P, schedule a bracket and make them battle it out for the rookie draft position with a similar methodology employed for the playoff teams.

A trading deadline is essential in dynasty leagues. The reason for this is that a team hopelessly out of making the playoffs may trade their best players for draft picks and throw off the competitive balance of the league right before or during the fantasy playoffs (and that really isn't fair IMO). I remember years ago I qualified for the playoffs and was facing the lowest seeded team, who in Week 14 acquired a RB like LT and a top 20 WR receiver for draft picks and a player out with an ACL injury (they went on to win the league championship and the league rules were subsequently amended to a Week 10 trade deadline after that).And you may notice that the NFL has a very early trade deadline cutoff itself (Week 7 or 8) and the reason for that has to be preventing star players from changing hands late in the season or during the playoffs.

Contrary to what others have stated here, while trading away your best players for youth and draft picks late in the season is technically not taking, it is essentially the same thing - as it guarantees that the team trading away star players will probably not win any more games and thus improve their rookie draft pick slot.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

First - personnel decisions should be made in the best interests of your team. Second - start your best players for the given week.

These two are sometimes at odds.

You need to look at it from a different perspective. Sure tanking may actually be in your team's best interest, but it's not in the league's best interest. Sometimes the needs of the many, outweigh the needs of one.The commisioner needs to put a stop to it because it can destroy a league in may ways.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

First - personnel decisions should be made in the best interests of your team. Second - start your best players for the given week.

These two are sometimes at odds.

You need to look at it from a different perspective. Sure tanking may actually be in your team's best interest, but it's not in the league's best interest. Sometimes the needs of the many, outweigh the needs of one.The commisioner needs to put a stop to it because it can destroy a league in may ways.

Excellent point. Were I the commissioner I would stop tanking as it is clearly not in the best interest of the league. And my job is to build the best league I can.Were I the team owner I might tank if it is clearly in the best interest of my team (and my team only). And my job is to build the best team I can.

 

[BoltzNBrew]

My Dynasty league has no rule preventing someone from tanking but the linueup requirements prevent someone from starting someone that is listed Out or on IR. My underachieving team is 2-7 going on 2-11 if I can help it. I am always picking in the 5-7 range and always seem to pick the dog of the draft(Spiller). If I can get pick #1 or 2 and parlay that into a player that actually helps my team next year then so be it. Even at 2-5 the last couple weeks with games against divisional teams I put my best lineup in and still lost both by a thin margin, but now whats the point of trying to win and chance getting stuck in that same 5-7 range when I have no chance of making the playoffs?(Yes I am mathematically eliminated).

 

[Tjaden]

I was just wondering if tanking is acceptable in a dynasty league at all. [...] but is it ok to field a poor team to try and lose if the team you are playing has nothing to play for (ie. has their playoff spot locked up or can't make the playoffs)? It is hard for me to try and lose but is it really any different than dealing a strong player for a future first round pick? Isn't that a form of tanking for the year? Helping another team win while trying to improve your team for the next year? Let's say that my team was horrible last year and I won a couple meaningless games at the end of the season against teams that didn't have anything to play for and I ended up with rookie pick #4 instead of pick #1 or #2. Instead of getting Peterson, Lynch or Calvin, I ended up with Meachem. That is a huge blow for my team just because I won a game or two that didn't matter. Thoughts?

Imho it's not okay to field a poor team to try and lose (but it's understandable) cause it will affect the whole league (team that wins against you could push into the playoffs and push another dedicated team out of the playoffs). Also it would start a chain reaction on other league members. You would only throw a spanner in the works. "He's losing on purpose and get's rewarded for that!? - Why should I try my best to get a worthless 6th place? Next year I tank as well..." And now Pandora's box is open. Members are not updating their rosters anymore or starting injured players and the real dedicated owners with active and competitive rosters losing their interest and will to win (what for?).I've seen this in one of my leagues. After a couple of lost games the LM(!)decided not to update his roster at all with the justification: "I couldn't make it to the playoffs so now I'm going after the last place to draft first next season!"I left the league.True, it's always nice to have the 1st pick and draft Calvin,..., Ingram or Richardson/Luck but it may cost you the league/integrity.Always think about what would you do, if you see someone tanking? It would pi** you off right? So don't be that guy tho' it would be so easy and nice.

 

[Jedimaster21]

My Dynasty league has no rule preventing someone from tanking but the linueup requirements prevent someone from starting someone that is listed Out or on IR. My underachieving team is 2-7 going on 2-11 if I can help it. I am always picking in the 5-7 range and always seem to pick the dog of the draft(Spiller). If I can get pick #1 or 2 and parlay that into a player that actually helps my team next year then so be it. Even at 2-5 the last couple weeks with games against divisional teams I put my best lineup in and still lost both by a thin margin, but now whats the point of trying to win and chance getting stuck in that same 5-7 range when I have no chance of making the playoffs?(Yes I am mathematically eliminated).

This is why there has to be firm rules in place to avoid tanking. If there is no possibility of getting a better draft pick by losing, there is a philosophical change of focus from improving draft position to team improvement at all times.

 

[Instinctive]

My Dynasty league has no rule preventing someone from tanking but the linueup requirements prevent someone from starting someone that is listed Out or on IR. My underachieving team is 2-7 going on 2-11 if I can help it. I am always picking in the 5-7 range and always seem to pick the dog of the draft(Spiller). If I can get pick #1 or 2 and parlay that into a player that actually helps my team next year then so be it. Even at 2-5 the last couple weeks with games against divisional teams I put my best lineup in and still lost both by a thin margin, but now whats the point of trying to win and chance getting stuck in that same 5-7 range when I have no chance of making the playoffs?(Yes I am mathematically eliminated).

This is why there has to be firm rules in place to avoid tanking. If there is no possibility of getting a better draft pick by losing, there is a philosophical change of focus from improving draft position to team improvement at all times.

Most of these playoff system suggestions are stupid though (the ones that reward the worst teams for winning at the end). You give the middle of the road teams better picks and the crappy teams stay down.One idea mentioned above was the "loser moves on, set opponent's lineup" playoff. That works, in my mind, if you HAVE to do a playoff thing. The solution that a few leagues I have been in came up with is the losers' bracket supplemental pick. 12 team league means the winner of the non-playoff team bracket got pick 1.13 in the draft. Every other round was 12 picks, but there was a bonus pick for winning the pride bowl at the end of the year. It's not a super high pick, but it does help teams try to win for the 1st round bye in the toilet bowl or to make sure they stay active on the waiver wire to try and get those week 14-16 studs that seem to appear annually.