Tarvaris Jackson (1 Viewer)

[Eminence]

I'm extremely high on Jackson. But upgrade Rice. These guys came into the league the same year and BOY did Jackson lock onto Rice.

Sidney Rice will have better numbers than last year.

 

[Clifford]

With Rice, Berrian, and Harvin as receiving options plus an above average TE in Shiancoe he's going to have some great options. And with ADP to keep defenses close to the line it means these options won't face a lot of double teams.But what makes him really great? His rushing totals. 3,000 yards passing, 15 td's, and 450 yards rushing. Top ten here. Get him while you can.*Assuming Favre retires

If he passes for 3,000 yards he will break the league record for INTs. Dude is not a pro QB and never has been.

His rookie season he had 4 picks to 2 TD's in two starts and 81 attempts - 1 pick every 20.25 attempts.His second season he had 12 pick to 9 TD's and 294 attempts - 1 pick every 24.5 attemptsHis third season he had 2 picks and 9 TD's with 149 attempts - 1 pick every 74.5 attemptsLast year he had 0 picks to 1 TD and 21 attempts - no picks in limited duty.I see a pretty positive trend. And the fact that he has a career 21 TD to 18 picks ratio, I think your hate could use a little more backing than a judgment call.

21 to 18 is horrible, and don't think in terms of negative two points for your fantasy team. Think of it as killing drives, often in really bad spots on the field, for your actual team. A 21 to 18 ratio will KILL your offense. Worth nothing that his season with the most attempts had the worse ratio as well.What about Joe Webb people? I know he's raw but he's got crazy skills especially in terms of speed and elusiveness as a runner. I live in Birmingham so I hear about him a little bit. I think a few sportswriters even said he was the best QB in the state.

 

[TheFanatic]

With Rice, Berrian, and Harvin as receiving options plus an above average TE in Shiancoe he's going to have some great options. And with ADP to keep defenses close to the line it means these options won't face a lot of double teams.But what makes him really great? His rushing totals. 3,000 yards passing, 15 td's, and 450 yards rushing. Top ten here. Get him while you can.*Assuming Favre retires

If he passes for 3,000 yards he will break the league record for INTs. Dude is not a pro QB and never has been.

His rookie season he had 4 picks to 2 TD's in two starts and 81 attempts - 1 pick every 20.25 attempts.His second season he had 12 pick to 9 TD's and 294 attempts - 1 pick every 24.5 attemptsHis third season he had 2 picks and 9 TD's with 149 attempts - 1 pick every 74.5 attemptsLast year he had 0 picks to 1 TD and 21 attempts - no picks in limited duty.I see a pretty positive trend. And the fact that he has a career 21 TD to 18 picks ratio, I think your hate could use a little more backing than a judgment call.

21 to 18 is horrible, and don't think in terms of negative two points for your fantasy team. Think of it as killing drives, often in really bad spots on the field, for your actual team. A 21 to 18 ratio will KILL your offense. Worth nothing that his season with the most attempts had the worse ratio as well.What about Joe Webb people? I know he's raw but he's got crazy skills especially in terms of speed and elusiveness as a runner. I live in Birmingham so I hear about him a little bit. I think a few sportswriters even said he was the best QB in the state.

21-18 is horrible? With the people had to throw to, I disagree. He threw pics every 20 and 24 attempts his first two years. His third year he threw one every 75 attempts. He also had Berrian and Shiancoe doing something that year. And that's not saying much. A TE getting close to 600 yards and a WR getting 900 is not top notch talent around him but still had a 90+ QB rating... Between having personnel to catch the ball and some experience it would seem his has vastly improved in that area. But focus on the year he had the most attempts, his second (and in the West Coast they say it takes at least 3 years to learn for polished recievers) and I'll watch the trend that takes into account the two years after that bad soph season. His completion percentage has gone up every year along with his QB rating. If you don't think he finished strong in his last 4 games in 2008 then you and I, and seemingly the Vikings coaching staff and front office, are going to have to just agree to disagree. If you want to say he's fragile I can see where you are coming from. But hanging your hat on his second season where he threw 9 TD's with 12 picks and consisted of these guys to throw to, is not that strong of an argument:18 Sidney Rice WR - Second year player who had 31 catches as a rookie19 Bobby Wade WR24 Troy Williamson WR84 Aundrae Allison WR 89 Robert Furguson WR40 Jim Kleinsasser TE/FB81 Visanthe Shiancoe TE - Never had more than 12 catches in a season before 200783 Jeff Dugan TE In 2007, no Harvin or Berrian. Rice hadn't learned to be a WR yet. Rice still wasn't much in 2008, but Shiancoe played well and they added Berrian and Jackson greatly improved his play. At least that's what I saw... You seem to see something different and that's fine with me...

 

[Abraham]

21:18 is far from horrible.

 

[smackdaddies]

21:18 is far from horrible.

ok

 

[Abraham]

21:18 is far from horrible.

ok

? Says the guy from Packer country...

 

[Couch Potato]

Where else but the Internet can you get into an argument with a tunnel ferret named Winky. It's a great life we live.

 

[griff321]

Some really solid camp notes on the QB's courtesy of KFAN's camp page

T-Jack:

"Tarvaris Jackson looked very good completing a combined 13-of-21 passes (by my count) throughout 7-on-7 and full team drills."

"QB Tarvaris Jackson completed a total of 10-16 passes between 7-on-7 and full team workouts. His highlight of the day was a perfect deep ball that he dropped right in the hands of Jaymar Johnson down the left sideline."

"Tarvaris Jackson completed 14-18 passes between 7-on-7 and 11-on-11 workouts. He was so sharp that he drew some positive remarks from the teams leading WR, "I think Tarvaris is doing a great job at this point, I seen him earlier make a lot of throws that I haven't seen him make in the past couple of years. He's doing a great job out there, he's handling the situation well, and we'll see where it goes from here", Sidney Rice said. Two of Jackson's first three passes went for touchdowns during the full-team portion of practice. He hooked up with Bernard Berrian deep to the left and then hit Jaymar Johnson on a free play (Jayme Mitchell jumped offside on a hard count) down the right side."

Sage:

"Don’t expect Rosenfels to be held from taking snaps like he was during mandatory mini camp. If the Vikings want to trade him they are going to have to play him throughout training camp and preseason."

"Backup QB Sage Rosenfels had a terrible night in Mankato. He was picked off four times throughout 7-on-7 and 11-on-11 passing drills. Amidst the interceptions he did drop in a few beauties, including a 25-yard pass that he dropped over a defender and into the arms of Jeff Dugan. Antione Winfield picked Rosenfels twice while Erin Henderson and Husain Abdullah got one as well. Sage threw more passes than any other QB (12-22) in front of more than seven thousand fans at Blakeslee Stadium on the campus of Minnesota State University Mankato, but overall he wasn’t very sharp. It wouldn’t be crazy to say that three of the four interceptions he threw would have been taken back the other direction for a touchdown."

"Sage Rosenfels struggled for the second consecutive day. He was intercepted three times today giving him a total of seven in the last two practices."

"QB Sage Rosenfels, although he didn’t throw as many passes, was much better than he had been over the weekend. He completed 9-15 passes overall. One incomplete pass was a perfectly threaded needle between a corner and a safety that backup TE Garrett Mills couldn’t hold onto."

"Sage Rosenfels had his best day of training camp. He connected on 9-11 passes and it would have been 10-11 if Marko Mitchell didn't juggle and drop a perfectly thrown deep ball down the left sideline"

Webb:

" Joe Webb was the third string QB. No surprise’s here as most believe Webb will enter the season as the third QB no matter what."

"Third string QB, Joe Webb, showed off his athleticism when he rolled out to the right and took off running. He put a nasty juke move to the left on DE Michael Montgomery. Webb was solid throwing the ball too – he completed 2-4 passes including a bullet over the middle to rookie WR Ray Small – Antione Winfield got beat on the play."

"QB Joe Webb was 2-6 passing but again showcased his ability to move outside of the pocket. The rookie can flat out fly when he gets loose."

"QB Joe Webb ran a few routes as a WR today. Although he is now officially a QB he can still be seen working with the WR’s from time to time. Wildcat anyone? As for his quarterbacking skills, “I didn’t expect a rookie quarterback to come in and really get the gist of the offense like that and really be that poised. He’s shown a lot of patience and he’s given a lot of good reads”, said Visanthe Shiancoe when asked what impressed him most about the rookie QB."

"Joe Webb - he continued to struggle with his accuracy. There were multiple occasions throughout the day in which Webb's pass came up short of the receiver. Webb's ugliest moment of the day came on a pass over the middle that was easily intercepted by rookie LB Nate Triplett. The Delano, MN native wouldn’t' have had any trouble turning that into a pick-six."

 

[Vikes Fan]

Stats over the the last 4 games in 2008:QB rating of 116.5, 64% completion percentageaveraged 185 passing yardsAveraged 26 yards rushingAveraged 2 TD'sHad an 8:1 TD:Interception ratioOver the course of the season (and I know, I hate to extrapolate numbers like this out, but we don't have much other statistical evidence to go on) it comes out to be:2960 yards Passing416 yards Rushing32 TD's4 interceptionsFrom those numbers I see not stellar fantasy numbers but solid NFL numbers in that he had a great TD:Interception ratio, high completion percentage, which means he's accurate and doesn't make bad mistakes. Flashforward a year. More weapons on offense. More time holding the clipboard and learning the system and how to read the defenses. Is it that far out of the realm of reason to say that he might improve just his passing yards 20%? Even if all else remains constant according to these numbers he has a stellar year. If he tacks on 400-500 yards over the course of a game (and we're only talking 31 yards/game) he finishes around 3500 yards, with 400 yards rushing and 32TD's? And think of this. Since Favre skips everything, Tarvaris gets all that time working with Rice and Harvin. So it's not like a guy who's been working with the second teamers all offseason the last two years. That tells me he hits the ground running. But that's just me. A guy discussing a player with a community of people, most of which can't remember what happened beyond 1 calendar year in the past...

I dislike when people use these numbers to defend Jackson. These four games came against defenses rated 23 or worse against the pass and a Giants team that had nothing to play for and sat their starters in the second half. When he played the Eagles in the first playoff game, he made horrible decisions, stared down his receivers, threw a pick-6 and looked completely overmatched. No, T-Jack will not be top 10. Not even with this talent. Vikes without Farve are on the playoff bubble - this from a big Viking fan.Please come back Brett. Please!

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

Stats over the the last 4 games in 2008:

QB rating of 116.5,

64% completion percentage

averaged 185 passing yards

Averaged 26 yards rushing

Averaged 2 TD's

Had an 8:1 TD:Interception ratio

Over the course of the season (and I know, I hate to extrapolate numbers like this out, but we don't have much other statistical evidence to go on) it comes out to be:

2960 yards Passing

416 yards Rushing

32 TD's

4 interceptions

From those numbers I see not stellar fantasy numbers but solid NFL numbers in that he had a great TD:Interception ratio, high completion percentage, which means he's accurate and doesn't make bad mistakes.

Flashforward a year. More weapons on offense. More time holding the clipboard and learning the system and how to read the defenses. Is it that far out of the realm of reason to say that he might improve just his passing yards 20%? Even if all else remains constant according to these numbers he has a stellar year. If he tacks on 400-500 yards over the course of a game (and we're only talking 31 yards/game) he finishes around 3500 yards, with 400 yards rushing and 32TD's?

And think of this. Since Favre skips everything, Tarvaris gets all that time working with Rice and Harvin. So it's not like a guy who's been working with the second teamers all offseason the last two years. That tells me he hits the ground running.

But that's just me. A guy discussing a player with a community of people, most of which can't remember what happened beyond 1 calendar year in the past...

I dislike when people use these numbers to defend Jackson. These four games came against defenses rated 23 or worse against the pass and a Giants team that had nothing to play for and sat their starters in the second half. When he played the Eagles in the first playoff game, he made horrible decisions, stared down his receivers, threw a pick-6 and looked completely overmatched. No, T-Jack will not be top 10. Not even with this talent. Vikes without Farve are on the playoff bubble - this from a big Viking fan.Please come back Brett. Please!

The Saints won the SB but you guys were the best team in the NFL last year. A large part of that was Brett Farve. I have had the Vikings at the top of my Power Rankings going into this season with Farve as the QB. They drop significantly without Farve, they go from NFC SB favorite to a team that will be scrambling for a wild card. Farve retiring is great news for Packers, Saints and Cowboy fans.

 

[Clifford]

I don't need stats. I've seen him play. IF you have been in the NFL for more than a year and still attempt a pass where you jump into the air while running right, turn midair to your left and attempt a pass across the middle throwing across your body into the teeth of the defense, you won't make it. That's just too dumb to be passable in a professional environment.

I'll grant that the guy has skills, but I don't think he has the head for the pro game.

 

[bonesman]

LOL @ the Sage backers..... really?!?

 

[Ray_T]

Absolutely not top 10. Not close.

agreed.I'm not even sure he'd be in the top 10 for backup QB's....

 

[datonn]

You're missing the boat. I didn't call him one of the top talents in the league. I said he'll be top 10 fantasy wise. I laid out my reasons.

You have anything to support why he won't?

Tarvaris Jackson =

Other than watching him in Camp every year he's been in the league and watching all but maybe 1-2 games he's ever played in the NFL nope, I got nothin'...

You watched him with those weapons?

Have you actually watched TJax in action, or are you just looking at stats and prognosticating what must be fact vs. fiction?!TJax just doesn't have "it." He makes too many bad decisions with his feet and with the ball. He panics in certain situations. Etc. And, guess what?! When players like Rice and Shiancoe are on the field and TJax is at QB, they don't work quite as hard/long...because they know it. They know that Favre might be able to fire a laser to a very specific spot to his third or fourth target/option on a designed play, and that if they can work just a little harder to get to a spot or get a defender in a certain position, the ball could very-well be coming their way. With TJax?! They'll still work hard and do what they are supposed to do. However, unless my eyes deceive me, they just don't give that little extra that they did with Favre on the field in 2009. Not because they aren't professionals and not because they aren't trying! They just know that TJax <<< Favre, and that TJax cannot and will not do some of the things Favre can do with the ball.

 

[Clifford]

To put it bluntly, TJ makes Vick look like a QB

 

[Football Jones]

You want to look for progress in a young QB & Jackson is doing just that. He played extremely well towards the end of 2008. Add to that his performance thus far in TC, his athleticism (rushing points in FF), not to mention his sick weapons, & you have the makings of a stud FF QB.

Like I say all the time...we play FF. His rushing stats & the fact his outstanding skill players will account for many of his points are two big keys. Not only that, he's making progress in his own right.

I love this kid's upside.

 

[Chaka]

You're missing the boat. I didn't call him one of the top talents in the league. I said he'll be top 10 fantasy wise. I laid out my reasons.

You have anything to support why he won't?

Tarvaris Jackson =

Other than watching him in Camp every year he's been in the league and watching all but maybe 1-2 games he's ever played in the NFL nope, I got nothin'...

You watched him with those weapons?

Have you actually watched TJax in action, or are you just looking at stats and prognosticating what must be fact vs. fiction?!TJax just doesn't have "it." He makes too many bad decisions with his feet and with the ball. He panics in certain situations. Etc. And, guess what?! When players like Rice and Shiancoe are on the field and TJax is at QB, they don't work quite as hard/long...because they know it. They know that Favre might be able to fire a laser to a very specific spot to his third or fourth target/option on a designed play, and that if they can work just a little harder to get to a spot or get a defender in a certain position, the ball could very-well be coming their way. With TJax?! They'll still work hard and do what they are supposed to do. However, unless my eyes deceive me, they just don't give that little extra that they did with Favre on the field in 2009. Not because they aren't professionals and not because they aren't trying! They just know that TJax <<< Favre, and that TJax cannot and will not do some of the things Favre can do with the ball.

To be fair TJax got most of his NFL action in his first two seasons. He might be a much improved as a 27 year old 5th year player who has had the benefit of watching one of Brett Favre's greatest seasons as a pro.The game could (could) have slowed down enough for him at this point that he will not make the same mistakes as in seasons past.

 

[treat88]

You want to look for progress in a young QB & Jackson is doing just that. He played extremely well towards the end of 2008. Add to that his performance thus far in TC, his athleticism (rushing points in FF), not to mention his sick weapons, & you have the makings of a stud FF QB.Like I say all the time...we play FF. His rushing stats & the fact his outstanding skill players will account for many of his points are two big keys. Not only that, he's making progress in his own right.I love this kid's upside.

My thoughts exactly.Being mentored by Favre for a year doesn't hurt either.

 

[The Man With No Name]

His numbers are better than the 1st five years of a certain 4 time Super Bowl winning QB and a certain 2 time Super Bowl winning QB.

 

[uwillbsoon]

I've seen every TJax game and to me his biggest problem is he's terribly inconsistent. There are times in the past where he looked every bit as good as Favre did last year (mock me all you want, he darn near singlehandedly took the Vikes to the playoffs in '08 after Frerotte gassed out.)

And then there are the games where he looks like he's still playing at Alabama State.

But the bigger problem from a fantasy perspective - justified or not - is that Chilly seems to call a much tighter game when TJax is playing. I don't have the numbers, but it seems like first down is going to be a run. Every time. It seems like they put TJax in a third and 6 or 7 hole because they are so conservative. Whether that's deserved I can't say. Given our strength on defense, I'd expect more of the same. That offense won't be opened up quite like it was last year.

He's got all the tools - watching him deliver on a quick slant is impressive - but the game didn't really seem to slow down for him until the last 4 games of '08. And then he was maddeningly bad against the Eagles in the playoffs. Though to be fair, Jim Johnson defenses are murder on young QBs (and even old ones).

I don't think he's top 10 material. But he's also not as bad as some folks think. If he can keep his turnovers down, he'll be a decent fantasy backup.

 

[bakes]

I don't need stats. I've seen him play. IF you have been in the NFL for more than a year and still attempt a pass where you jump into the air while running right, turn midair to your left and attempt a pass across the middle throwing across your body into the teeth of the defense, you won't make it. That's just too dumb to be passable in a professional environment.I'll grant that the guy has skills, but I don't think he has the head for the pro game.

Yeah, agreed. Farve's washed up.

 

[Winky the tunnel ferret]

To put it bluntly, TJ makes Vick look like a QB

Before Vick had his dog issue he was an elite fantasy option and took his team to the playoffs.Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Winky the tunnel ferret]

I don't need stats. I've seen him play. IF you have been in the NFL for more than a year and still attempt a pass where you jump into the air while running right, turn midair to your left and attempt a pass across the middle throwing across your body into the teeth of the defense, you won't make it. That's just too dumb to be passable in a professional environment.

I'll grant that the guy has skills, but I don't think he has the head for the pro game.

You mean like I've seen Favre, Schaub, and McNabb do?We've got a tank full of guppies...swim back to the shallow end, this pool is for SHARKS. Real sharks know free money when they see it. I've presented my reasons in this thread and you've come up with no facts to dispute that.

Tarvaris IS a ticket to the big game for your fantasy team. Draft him now, thank me later.

 

[Vikes Fan]

You want to look for progress in a young QB & Jackson is doing just that. He played extremely well towards the end of 2008. Add to that his performance thus far in TC, his athleticism (rushing points in FF), not to mention his sick weapons, & you have the makings of a stud FF QB.

Like I say all the time...we play FF. His rushing stats & the fact his outstanding skill players will account for many of his points are two big keys. Not only that, he's making progress in his own right.

I love this kid's upside.

Once again, I point out that these games were against defenses ranked 23 and higher against the pass and the Giants who had nothing to play for (sat starters at half). When the chips were down against a good Philly defense, he looked terrible, and indecisive. The sick weapons don't help if the ball doesn't get to them or goes to the other team...

 

[FavreCo]

I don't need stats. I've seen him play. IF you have been in the NFL for more than a year and still attempt a pass where you jump into the air while running right, turn midair to your left and attempt a pass across the middle throwing across your body into the teeth of the defense, you won't make it. That's just too dumb to be passable in a professional environment.

I'll grant that the guy has skills, but I don't think he has the head for the pro game.

That was hilarious when that idiot tried that. However, he has no QB skills. at anyone thinking 21-18 TD-INT ratio is anything but awful.

 

[Clifford]

I don't need stats. I've seen him play. IF you have been in the NFL for more than a year and still attempt a pass where you jump into the air while running right, turn midair to your left and attempt a pass across the middle throwing across your body into the teeth of the defense, you won't make it. That's just too dumb to be passable in a professional environment.

I'll grant that the guy has skills, but I don't think he has the head for the pro game.

You mean like I've seen Favre, Schaub, and McNabb do?We've got a tank full of guppies...swim back to the shallow end, this pool is for SHARKS. Real sharks know free money when they see it. I've presented my reasons in this thread and you've come up with no facts to dispute that.

Tarvaris IS a ticket to the big game for your fantasy team. Draft him now, thank me later.

OK Mr. Shark, I'll check back on this to see if Tjax is top ten after this season. I'm sure you'll still be around.

 

[Clifford]

You want to look for progress in a young QB & Jackson is doing just that. He played extremely well towards the end of 2008. Add to that his performance thus far in TC, his athleticism (rushing points in FF), not to mention his sick weapons, & you have the makings of a stud FF QB.

Like I say all the time...we play FF. His rushing stats & the fact his outstanding skill players will account for many of his points are two big keys. Not only that, he's making progress in his own right.

I love this kid's upside.

Once again, I point out that these games were against defenses ranked 23 and higher against the pass and the Giants who had nothing to play for (sat starters at half). When the chips were down against a good Philly defense, he looked terrible, and indecisive. The sick weapons don't help if the ball doesn't get to them or goes to the other team...

Also everyone pointing to that magical run at the end of 2008 is leaving out the postseason game, where he played a good team that was giving it their all. 15 of 35 (42.9%) for 164 1-1.Have fun riding that kinda production to your championship game Shark-boy.

 

[Winky the tunnel ferret]

You want to look for progress in a young QB & Jackson is doing just that. He played extremely well towards the end of 2008. Add to that his performance thus far in TC, his athleticism (rushing points in FF), not to mention his sick weapons, & you have the makings of a stud FF QB.

Like I say all the time...we play FF. His rushing stats & the fact his outstanding skill players will account for many of his points are two big keys. Not only that, he's making progress in his own right.

I love this kid's upside.

Once again, I point out that these games were against defenses ranked 23 and higher against the pass and the Giants who had nothing to play for (sat starters at half). When the chips were down against a good Philly defense, he looked terrible, and indecisive. The sick weapons don't help if the ball doesn't get to them or goes to the other team...

Also everyone pointing to that magical run at the end of 2008 is leaving out the postseason game, where he played a good team that was giving it their all. 15 of 35 (42.9%) for 164 1-1.Have fun riding that kinda production to your championship game Shark-boy.

Peyton Manning has had some clunkers in the playoffs. Is he a guy we should avoid?

 

[Clifford]

Absolutely. You should always avoid players who routinely finish top five at their position. Since this thread is about making sense and all...

 

[Winky the tunnel ferret]

Absolutely. You should always avoid players who routinely finish top five at their position. Since this thread is about making sense and all...

You're the one saying we should avoid a young qb on a very good team with very good options simply because he's improved every year but still had some bad outings.If you can provide me with a list of qb's who never had bad games I'd appreciate it.TIA.

 

[Clifford]

Ok Winky, I'll get right on that.

 

[Sabertooth]

Typical August thread in the SHark Pool. The pool generally peaks about July 20th.

 

[Winky the tunnel ferret]

Typical August thread in the SHark Pool. The pool generally peaks about July 20th.

\I'm pretty sure it's posts like these Joe doesn't want clouding the SP.As stated, he only needs to average what he was doing towards the end of the last season he was starting and he makes the top ten.

 

[Casting Couch]

Absolutely. You should always avoid players who routinely finish top five at their position. Since this thread is about making sense and all...

You're the one saying we should avoid a young qb on a very good team with very good options simply because he's improved every year but still had some bad outings.If you can provide me with a list of qb's who never had bad games I'd appreciate it.TIA.

I believe it was you drawing the comparison between Peyton Manning and Tavaris Jackson.It's makes little sense my friend.

 

[Winky the tunnel ferret]

Absolutely. You should always avoid players who routinely finish top five at their position. Since this thread is about making sense and all...

You're the one saying we should avoid a young qb on a very good team with very good options simply because he's improved every year but still had some bad outings.If you can provide me with a list of qb's who never had bad games I'd appreciate it.TIA.

I believe it was you drawing the comparison between Peyton Manning and Tavaris Jackson.It's makes little sense my friend.

I'm saying it's ridiculous to think he has no upside based upon 1 bad game in the playoffs from a young qb.He was raw coming into the league...he should have sat on the bench the first year or two. He was instead thrown to the wolves and jerked around with the starting job (people seem to forget how truly awful Childress was). He's not been a Drew Brees but with rushing qb's that's not their style. He's improved each year (as was hoped/expected when he was drafted). Again, this isn't like drafting a Matt Ryan in the first round and expecting him to be pretty good right out of the gates. Everyone thought Jackson needed time. And with that time he's shown improvement. Will he ever be an elite qb? Maybe, though we're all doubtful. Will he be a pretty good fantasy option? He's already proven that yes, he can. Lots of folk seriously underestimate the power of rushing yards from a qb. 30 rushing yards per game equals almost an extra 1,000 yards passing on the year. If you can't see that I can't help you.

 

[TheFanatic]

Have you actually watched TJax in action, or are you just looking at stats and prognosticating what must be fact vs. fiction?!

Yes I have. His first two years I thought he was awful. Then I saw his last four games and I don't care they were against poor Defenses. It's not like he was playing against the Sisters of Mary Mother. He went into NFL games and played well. This just in. Half the time a team is playing a poor defense on average.

TJax just doesn't have "it." He makes too many bad decisions with his feet and with the ball. He panics in certain situations. Etc.

Glad to know you think he doesn't have "it." He makes too many bad decisions? I bet every QB in the league would say that about themselves. Looking at his stats, it would seem his decisions are getting remarkably better, but that doesn't count because he doesn't pass the eye test you give him from your barca lounger.

And, guess what?! When players like Rice and Shiancoe are on the field and TJax is at QB, they don't work quite as hard/long...because they know it. They know that Favre might be able to fire a laser to a very specific spot to his third or fourth target/option on a designed play, and that if they can work just a little harder to get to a spot or get a defender in a certain position, the ball could very-well be coming their way. With TJax?! They'll still work hard and do what they are supposed to do. However, unless my eyes deceive me, they just don't give that little extra that they did with Favre on the field in 2009. Not because they aren't professionals and not because they aren't trying! They just know that TJax <<< Favre, and that TJax cannot and will not do some of the things Favre can do with the ball.

This is just moronic. Rice and Shiancoe work harder with Favre? Shiancoe had 596 yards in 2008 with TJack and the Frerotte. That was his best year in terms of yardage including the year he had with Favre for 16 games. Sure he had 4 more TD's with FAvre, but you talk about hard work. So let's analyze that a bit. Getting your number called in the redzone does not mean you worked harder. To me, the fact that Shiancoe had a 14.2 YPC in 2008 and only a 10.1 YPC in 2009, shows that he worked harder for the extra yards with Tarvaris and Gus, or at least shoots down this argument about WR's don't work as hard getting open with one QB over another. If they don't get open they don't get the ball no matter who's throwing it and every WR wants the ball whether Unitas or Dilfer's throwing to him...I show solid stats that show his numbers have improved every year in terms of completion percentage, QB rating and pics per passing attempts. And I get in response, "he doesn't have 'it.'" Sheesh this place has gone down hill....

 

[Clifford]

Absolutely. You should always avoid players who routinely finish top five at their position. Since this thread is about making sense and all...

You're the one saying we should avoid a young qb on a very good team with very good options simply because he's improved every year but still had some bad outings.If you can provide me with a list of qb's who never had bad games I'd appreciate it.

TIA.

I believe it was you drawing the comparison between Peyton Manning and Tavaris Jackson.It's makes little sense my friend.

I'm saying it's ridiculous to think he has no upside based upon 1 bad game in the playoffs from a young qb.1. I didn't. What I really based it on was what I have seen, and to a lesser extent his mediocre to awful stats that comprised his one season as a full-time starter. I combined that with the fact that the team has had a long hard look at what they have in him and have instead focused their efforts on pursuing a 40-year old QB, albeit one of the game's greats.

He was raw coming into the league...he should have sat on the bench the first year or two. He was instead thrown to the wolves and jerked around with the starting job

He played four games his rookie season, had a 62.5 QB rating.

(people seem to forget how truly awful Childress was). He's not been a Drew Brees but with rushing qb's that's not their style.

Not their style? Do you honestly believe that there is a QB on earth, at any level, who could play at a level even close to Drew Brees but wouldn't because that's not their style?

He's improved each year (as was hoped/expected when he was drafted).

Going from starter to backup is an improvement? Really?

Again, this isn't like drafting a Matt Ryan in the first round and expecting him to be pretty good right out of the gates. Everyone thought Jackson needed time.

What on earth do pre-draft thoughts have to do with anything regarding TJax's current prospects?

And with that time he's shown improvement. Will he ever be an elite qb? Maybe, though we're all doubtful. Will he be a pretty good fantasy option? He's already proven that yes, he can. Lots of folk seriously underestimate the power of rushing yards from a qb.

30 rushing yards per game equals almost an extra 1,000 yards passing on the year.

In his most productive year ever (07-08) he averaged 21 ypg and broke 30 yards rushing three times out of 12 starts. In his magical 08 season, he averaged 20 ypg.

If you can't see that I can't help you.

I don't think you're in a position to be helping anyone

I did try and walk away from this...

 

[TheFanatic]

He was raw coming into the league...he should have sat on the bench the first year or two. He was instead thrown to the wolves and jerked around with the starting job

He played four games his rookie season, had a 62.5 QB rating.

Peyton Manning had a 71 QB rating his rookie season. Avoid that guy. He sucks. Troy Aikman had a 55 rating his rookie season and a whopping 66 his second year. That guy had not chance to do anything in the league. Those guys were considered "polished" when they entered the league. Eli Manning had a 55 rating too and he has a SB ring. Horrible argument.

(people seem to forget how truly awful Childress was). He's not been a Drew Brees but with rushing qb's that's not their style.

Not their style? Do you honestly believe that there is a QB on earth, at any level, who could play at a level even close to Drew Brees but wouldn't because that's not their style?

Uh, actually yes. Because they can't. Very few can. All QB's are different. Guys have to play to their strengths. I'm sure there are things Brees wishes he could do that he can't like get rid of the ball as quickly as Kurt Warner did, or have the pocket presence of Dan Marino, or have the size and speed of Culpepper. Horrible Argument

He's improved each year (as was hoped/expected when he was drafted).

Going from starter to backup is an improvement? Really?

Getting injured, needing polish and then bringing in Brett Favre is not as cut and dried as this third horrible argument that he didn't get better because he lost his starting job means he got worst. If you can't look at the fact that his completion percentage, interception per attempt and QB rating have gone up every year then you have serious issues. Those are extremely simple statistical trends to follow. More in the next post. Too many quoted blocks....

 

[TheFanatic]

Continued....

Again, this isn't like drafting a Matt Ryan in the first round and expecting him to be pretty good right out of the gates. Everyone thought Jackson needed time.

What on earth do pre-draft thoughts have to do with anything regarding TJax's current prospects?

The guy was a project. Again, if you can't comprehend that he didn't come into the league as polished as a Peyton Manning or Troy Aikmen then you need a new hobby. Do you only draft players drafted in the NFL in the top 10 picks? If not then you need to have some patience and see if a kid can develop. But seeing how you can't spot some simple trends I can understand how a player improving is a problem for you.

And with that time he's shown improvement. Will he ever be an elite qb? Maybe, though we're all doubtful. Will he be a pretty good fantasy option? He's already proven that yes, he can. Lots of folk seriously underestimate the power of rushing yards from a qb.

30 rushing yards per game equals almost an extra 1,000 yards passing on the year.

In his most productive year ever (07-08) he averaged 21 ypg and broke 30 yards rushing three times out of 12 starts. In his magical 08 season, he averaged 20 ypg.

Wow, you got one right. You spotted the fact that stats were overstated a but here. But so did you. In his 5 starts in 2008 he averaged 29 yards per game. You can't factor in a game where he had a couple plays and got 0 yards into the stats. Check the games he started. He had 146 yards in 5 games. In his 19 starts he has 463 yards for 24 yards per game.

If you can't see that I can't help you.

I don't think you're in a position to be helping anyone

You neither. Particularly with statistics homework

 

[Clifford]

You missed every point thus far

1 he played four games as a rookie. Was not thrown to the wolves.

2 exactly. His point that was tj is not a good passer because that's not his style.

3 all of this is moot since farve is going to play

 

[Chaka]

Favre had a nice fantasy game last night but has been pretty mediocre overall from an NFL perspective. He has a QB rating under 70, 5TD & 7INT, had another trademark crushing pick six, the team is 1-3, he apparently has a litany of injuries including tendinitis in his throwing arm and has the added distraction of pictures of his junk on the internet and sexual harassment allegations floating over him (that, oh by the way, he has not denied for whatever reason). I can understand that maybe he is keeping quiet on the latter for some reason or other but if it's true, there are at least three people out there who know if it's true and one of those people is named Deana, it can't be anything but a distraction to him. I know he has played well through distractions before but like the Franklin Mint says "Past returns are not an indication of future value."

He doesn't seem like he's "like a kid just having fun out there" anymore.

At some point the Vikings need to start sending things up the flag pole and see if anyone salutes to try and salvage their season. Is there any way the Vikings manage to turn the team over to Tarvaris this season? I imagine it would require putting Favre on the IR (whether he has the injuries to justify it or not).

Could it happen?

From Syracuse to San Diego, REACT!

 

[Sabertooth]

I think Favre goes on IR if Favre chooses to go on IR. I see that happening only if a suspension is eminent. I could see him being notified in confidence, then having the choice to go out with some honor. Short of that, a significant injury such as an ACL or a torn up arm would do it as well. Randy Moss doesn't block. Neither do the Vikings linemen.

 

[Chaka]

I think Favre goes on IR if Favre chooses to go on IR. I see that happening only if a suspension is eminent. I could see him being notified in confidence, then having the choice to go out with some honor. Short of that, a significant injury such as an ACL or a torn up arm would do it as well. Randy Moss doesn't block. Neither do the Vikings linemen.

Yeah I tend to agree. Childress probably doesn't have the cajones to bench Favre, I have never seen such an emasculated head coach. Favre will probably have to go willingly but it just feels like that may actually be a possibility at some point.But what if the Vikes lose next week? At some point Childress has to start thinking about his own job security and he has a guy on the roster, Jackson, who might be better than Favre right now. At the very least, if the line keeps playing as badly as you say Jackson has a much better chance of keeping plays alive with his feet.

 

[TheFanatic]

I think Favre goes on IR if Favre chooses to go on IR. I see that happening only if a suspension is eminent. I could see him being notified in confidence, then having the choice to go out with some honor. Short of that, a significant injury such as an ACL or a torn up arm would do it as well. Randy Moss doesn't block. Neither do the Vikings linemen.

Yeah I tend to agree. Childress probably doesn't have the cajones to bench Favre, I have never seen such an emasculated head coach. Favre will probably have to go willingly but it just feels like that may actually be a possibility at some point.But what if the Vikes lose next week? At some point Childress has to start thinking about his own job security and he has a guy on the roster, Jackson, who might be better than Favre right now. At the very least, if the line keeps playing as badly as you say Jackson has a much better chance of keeping plays alive with his feet.

Childress has no job security. Wilf is doing everything he can to get a new stadium. The favre thing isn't really about winning a SB this year as it is about getting a new stadium. Winning a SB will help them do that, but also packing the stadium and trying to show how committed he is to winning. Unless they win the SB, Chilly's job is in jeopardy. You have to think that Wilf is going to try to put a bigger name coach on the sidelines to help get the new stadium, even if Chilly busts off 10 straight and the Vikes make the playoffs.

 

[Chaka]

I think Favre goes on IR if Favre chooses to go on IR. I see that happening only if a suspension is eminent. I could see him being notified in confidence, then having the choice to go out with some honor. Short of that, a significant injury such as an ACL or a torn up arm would do it as well. Randy Moss doesn't block. Neither do the Vikings linemen.

Yeah I tend to agree. Childress probably doesn't have the cajones to bench Favre, I have never seen such an emasculated head coach. Favre will probably have to go willingly but it just feels like that may actually be a possibility at some point.But what if the Vikes lose next week? At some point Childress has to start thinking about his own job security and he has a guy on the roster, Jackson, who might be better than Favre right now. At the very least, if the line keeps playing as badly as you say Jackson has a much better chance of keeping plays alive with his feet.

Childress has no job security. Wilf is doing everything he can to get a new stadium. The favre thing isn't really about winning a SB this year as it is about getting a new stadium. Winning a SB will help them do that, but also packing the stadium and trying to show how committed he is to winning. Unless they win the SB, Chilly's job is in jeopardy. You have to think that Wilf is going to try to put a bigger name coach on the sidelines to help get the new stadium, even if Chilly busts off 10 straight and the Vikes make the playoffs.

When was the last time the Vikes had a local blackout? I honestly don't know. But I think winning puts butts in seats just as much, and probably more, as losing with an ailing Lord Favre.And if Childress' only hope at job security is to win a SB does Favre really give this team the best opportunity to do so?

Favre is playing some of the worst football of his career, maybe he'll turn it around (missing TC clearly hurt him this year) but how long can they afford to wait?

I did a quick google search on Vikings blackouts and there was an article from Sept 2007 where they were short 3500 tix to avoid the blackout (not sure if they did but I am guessing they did) and that article says the last blackout at that point was in Dec 1997.

There is another article from Jan 2009 saying they were trying to avoid a blackout but subsequent articles say they did avoid it.

It doesn't seem to take much to get Minnesota fans to fill the stadium.

That's all I got.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

I don't think Childress can bench Favre even if he wanted to. He'd probably say, "Brett, you're sitting. Tarvaris, grab your helmet." and Favre would ignore him and run out on the field.

 

[Chaka]

I don't think Childress can bench Favre even if he wanted to. He'd probably say, "Brett, you're sitting. Tarvaris, grab your helmet." and Favre would ignore him and run out on the field.

You're probably right.

 

[ponchsox]

If you are counting on TJ to save your season you need to start planning for next year.