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TE 4-6: fool’s gold or league winners? (1 Viewer)

What do you do?

  • Take one of the 4-6 ranked TEs. You’ll still get an advantage at the position.

    Votes: 50 53.2%
  • Punt! You can pair up guys like Tonyan, Higbee, Troutman, Smith, streamers & be better off takin

    Votes: 44 46.8%

  • Total voters
    94
How many more points do you think Hockenson scores vs. Irv Smith?


First, I see Hock as the best receiver in Detroit.  I look at the 115 targets to Marvin Jones being vacated, the same way everyone seems to look at Julio Jones targets in ATL being distributed to Pitts' side.  If you take the receptions from the loss of Amendola/Marvin Jones and Golladay and give 20% of those targets that gives him around 95 targets.  I can conservatively say - 90 catches for 900 yards and with his 6 TD's from last year staying equal - 162 points.  That to me, is the floor for Hock.

At best, Irv Smith is the 3rd option in that offense.  It would take a significant regression to Justin Jefferson and Adam Thielen to change things.  Keep in mind Dalvin Cook is still going to get his opportunities in the pass game, which is why he is being drafted as a top 3 back.  Even in 2 tight end sets, Irv Smith was still the guy going for passes last year.  Kyle Rudolph leaving doesn't change much there.  Combining both the TE stats and including a little regression and added focus to Irv Smith puts me at 60 catches for 660 yards and at best I see Irv Smith scoring 120 fantasy points.  

Hockenson's floor exceeds even Irv Smith's ceiling by a large margin for me.  What do you expect Irv Smith to do this year?

 
199 (TE5) vs 136 (TE13)

:grad:

 
ok, so 199 - 136 = 63 points

over 17 games, thats’s 3.7 PPG.

That is a significant points advantage at that position team Hock has over team Irv. 

But then one would also have to consider what RB or WR team Hock sacrificed to get Hock, and what the PPG that cost. If it’s 3.7 or more, then taking Hock seems like a fail. 

 
this is a great way to group them. I do think Kittle sneaks into the 1st tier, but there’s definitely a case to be made that a change at QB presents an x-factor. 

good post. 👍🏼


I am loving the Pitts hype.  It has basically pushed him as the 4th TE being taken in a lot of drafts.  I have been able to grab Hockenson in the 6th in many mocks.  I think he has the greatest chance of moving into that tier with Waller and Kelce.

1. No competition

2. Bad team/poor defense - will have to throw their way out of games

3. Talented player

Sign me up for a potential top tier guy in the 6th round.  The question is - are you taking Hockenson over guys like Kareem Hunt, Raheem Mostert, Adam Thielen, DJ Moore or James Robinson and the answer for me is 100% yes.  If there is a run on TE's (meaning Pitts goes really early in the 4th or someone goes crazy and takes him in the 3rd), I might be forced to take him in the 5th and that is when things start to get murky.  People seem pretty down on Hock due to the QB and state of the Lions... advantage for anyone targeting Hockenson. 

 
ok, so 199 - 136 = 63 points

over 17 games, thats’s 3.7 PPG.

That is a significant points advantage at that position team Hock has over team Irv. 

But then one would also have to consider what RB or WR team Hock sacrificed to get Hock, and what the PPG that cost. If it’s 3.7 or more, then taking Hock seems like a fail. 


  • Johnson Chase Aiyuk / Edmonds Gaskin
VS

  • Cooks Jeudy Shenault / Gordon Mostert
If it's a RB it's probably my RB3/RB4 and they're only starting in bye weeks or due to injury.

If it's a WR (more likely for me since we start 3+Flex in full PPR) then I think it's around 215-225 versus 200-210. 

YMMV but I'd rather have the stability of rolling out Andrews / Hock every week.

 
Position scarcity is what I look at. Top TE's are a very limited group, even compared to RB's.  WR's seem to be the most available position of the 3 (I was able to pull Justin J. off the waiver wire). 

 
  • Johnson Chase Aiyuk / Edmonds Gaskin
VS

  • Cooks Jeudy Shenault / Gordon Mostert
If it's a RB it's probably my RB3/RB4 and they're only starting in bye weeks or due to injury.

If it's a WR (more likely for me since we start 3+Flex in full PPR) then I think it's around 215-225 versus 200-210. 

YMMV but I'd rather have the stability of rolling out Andrews / Hock every week.
That’s where my math has been leaning as well. 

I’d also be more likely to sacrifice a little value at WR2-3 than RB3 because in my experience RB get dinged up more. 

This is an interesting discussion & I appreciate everyone’s participation so far - it’s one of the biggest challenges of the last ~decade+ of FF. 

The idea of course is landing that 8th round or later TE who’s gonna break out & make the jump to next year’s top 5.  And it’s really, really hard to do. Fant seems like the darling for that this year, but IMO he’s gonna give us what he gave us last year +/- 10%. Potential breakout, sure, but so do a lot of the flotsam from TE 7-20 have a chance to be better.

This is the 1st year I intend to take a TE in the 5th or earlier if one of the top 3 falls to me) - it’s going to add challenge to my build, but if I can get it right it’s worth it. 

One advantage I have is that my league’s IDP, so once Leonard goes in the ~5th, ADP kinda goes out the window & offensive assets will fall further than in non-IDP due to the early run on LB. I figure 2 will go in the 5th, 4-5 more in the 6th along with the 1st couple of DL. 

I tend to draft offense for at least 8-10 rounds, so it adds to my chances of getting a good TE if I miss on the top 3. 

 
It's interesting how the landscape of TEs changes so quickly.

Not too many years ago, it was Gonzalez, Gates, Witten, and just about everyone else. Then the position became really deep, and now we're back to scarcity. 

I guess it's not unexpected given that TEs are rarely the top options in their offenses. And probably a big reason why so many are enamored of Pitts for the future. And why I think Hockensen may take that next step that others may not in terms of opportunity.

 
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Position scarcity is what I look at. Top TE's are a very limited group, even compared to RB's.  WR's seem to be the most available position of the 3 (I was able to pull Justin J. off the waiver wire). 
Agree.

You don't see many TEs come off the WW and break out.   But you see QBs, RBs and WRs break out off the WW all the time.  

That makes a good reason to take a TE fairly early.  But are are you willing to pay a premium price for a plug in every week TE?  Even Pitts, Hock and Andrews are going fairly early in drafts....you need a 4th or 5th rounder, a pick where you could be loading up on RBs and WRs, or get a stud QB.

Me?  I am either going to bite the bullet and get Kelce or Waller early......or wait.

This is great conversation with no really correct answer.

 
A ferw players I would rather take over Hockenson right now per FantasyPros ADP...

Aiyuk

Henderson

Tee Higgins

He's actually lower than I thought he would be there...he's obviously going much higher in my FFPC 1.5 PPR TE premium best balls.
I love me some Tee as well, and I'd be sad to lose him to select Hockensen.  But there's just so many more WRs than TEs who could rise to starter level.  I'll forego Tee, and then just load up on lottery pick WRs at the end of the draft and hope that one hits.  If I were to take Tee, I'd take a maximum of two lottery TEs at the back of the draft.  I'm not going to come out of the draft with more than 2, whereas I typically would exit with 6 WRs. Hopefully one of WR3-6 could replace what I could have gotten with Tee.

It seems I might be in the minority of everyone on Hock, but I love him.  The only thing you can look for with TE is opportunity and in a PPR - Hock is the only guy in town.  

I can't see myself taking Higbee because he has done very little with the chances he has been given.  I read this article by Andrew Cooper: https://www.fantasyalarm.com/articles/AndrewCooper/110083/2021-nfl-draft-guide-ultimate-te-draft-guide-the-elite/ - thanks to this community discussing it earlier.  I thought it was a pretty compelling read.  I was open to waiting for a TE to drop, but I think you will be constantly chasing production from a platoon of TE's - scares me. 
Thanks for the link.  I listen to Bender and Jim on SiriusXM, but I've never checked out the Fantasy Alarm site.  Don't want to pay for another one.

Great read.  Did not know that Hockensen's player profiler comp is Kelce, and that Kelce's is Gronk.  That's good stuff.  He'll get targets, but the Detroit offense is a concern.  I think in a PPR format, he benefits more from having sucky Jared Goff who goes for the low hanging fruit (as the article says) and might look to Hock more.  Stafford with his big arm would be more likely to look downfield.  That said, he was good last year with Stafford as well and I'm hoping for even more this year.  I want to follow the targets.  Give me 100 for a tight end and you're more likely to hit than with those who don't get them.

ok, so 199 - 136 = 63 points

over 17 games, thats’s 3.7 PPG.

That is a significant points advantage at that position team Hock has over team Irv. 

But then one would also have to consider what RB or WR team Hock sacrificed to get Hock, and what the PPG that cost. If it’s 3.7 or more, then taking Hock seems like a fail. 
Draft cost is everything in snake drafting.  And of course, we don't know what will happen and can only make decisions based on projections.  And this obviously depends on whose projections you follow and trust.  Plenty of later round WRs will break out.  I'm hoping to catch one of them and will go with a TE4-6.

 
This is great conversation with no really correct answer.
agreed - there’s definitely different ways to approach the subject. 

 I’ve read 5-6 articles about it & they all seem to have different conclusions & different targets. Some folks sleepers are other folks busts & so on. So there isn’t even consensus among the FF “experts” (writers/industry folks).

 
A ferw players I would rather take over Hockenson right now per FantasyPros ADP...

Aiyuk

Henderson

Tee Higgins

He's actually lower than I thought he would be there...he's obviously going much higher in my FFPC 1.5 PPR TE premium best balls.
You can mitigate this perceived loss by taking Antonio Brown

 
It's interesting how the landscape of TEs changes so quickly.

Not too many years ago, it was Gonzalez, Gates, Witten, and just about everyone else. Then the position became really deep, and now we're back to scarcity. 

I guess it's not unexpected given that TEs are rarely the top options in their offenses. And probably a big reason why so many are enamored of Pitts for the future. And why I think Hockensen may take that next step that others may not in terms of opportunity.
Of course, you could also look at that as a reminder that what we're so sure of right now may change as soon as this coming season. Is it totally inconceivable that the top guys all hold serve, Pitts is as advertised, Hock makes the leap, and a couple of the late-round guys break out as well, so that by this time next year we're back to talking about how deep the position is?

There are a few (relatively) immutable truths to fantasy drafting, like RBs are the scarcest commodity and always wait on QB, but every time I hear people getting too confident about short-term trends an alarm goes off in my head.

 
2 hours ago, zamboni said:
It's interesting how the landscape of TEs changes so quickly.

Not too many years ago, it was Gonzalez, Gates, Witten, and just about everyone else. Then the position became really deep, and now we're back to scarcity. 

I guess it's not unexpected given that TEs are rarely the top options in their offenses. And probably a big reason why so many are enamored of Pitts for the future. And why I think Hockensen may take that next step that others may not in terms of opportunity.
Expand  
Of course, you could also look at that as a reminder that what we're so sure of right now may change as soon as this coming season. Is it totally inconceivable that the top guys all hold serve, Pitts is as advertised, Hock makes the leap, and a couple of the late-round guys break out as well, so that by this time next year we're back to talking about how deep the position is?

There are a few (relatively) immutable truths to fantasy drafting, like RBs are the scarcest commodity and always wait on QB, but every time I hear people getting too confident about short-term trends an alarm goes off in my head.
Absolutely. I’m just thinking ahead in terms of age. Kelce is 31 and Waller is 29, although Waller was obviously a late bloomer with little mileage.  TEs don’t tend to fall off the cliff like RBs do, but age is age. Not too many guys are Tony G and Gates, who thrived well into their 30s. 

Could Kelce and Waller do the same? Sure, but all it takes is one step slower and all of a sudden those 100-1300-10 seasons drop meaningfully to more normalized levels, and they become more TD dependent.

 
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There are a few (relatively) immutable truths to fantasy drafting, like RBs are the scarcest commodity and always wait on QB, but every time I hear people getting too confident about short-term trends an alarm goes off in my head.
I don't think that it's an immutable truth, but to be a successful TE you either need to have a lot of targets and target share, or you need to score greater than 10 TDs.  The only thing we can sort of predict with our cloudy crystal ball is anticipated targets.  Pitts will clearly get targets given the preseason chatter about how they're moving him around and Julio gone.  All of the Detroit WRs from last year are gone,  so Hockensen will get his.

Can we say with relative certainty that Logan Thomas will get 100 targets?  Lots of mouths to feed in Washington.

 
I don't think that it's an immutable truth, but to be a successful TE you either need to have a lot of targets and target share, or you need to score greater than 10 TDs.  The only thing we can sort of predict with our cloudy crystal ball is anticipated targets.  Pitts will clearly get targets given the preseason chatter about how they're moving him around and Julio gone.  All of the Detroit WRs from last year are gone,  so Hockensen will get his.

Can we say with relative certainty that Logan Thomas will get 100 targets?  Lots of mouths to feed in Washington.
Oh, I was talking more at the macro level in terms of overall depth of the position. I remember a few years ago when the conventional wisdom was not just that Antonio Brown was the overall No. 1, but that the rise of PPR meant that we were entering an era where elite WRs would go off the board before RBs, who busted at a higher rate. I think that trend lasted exactly one season.

And by the way, I'm definitely not saying that TE will suddenly become crazy deep. It may, or it may stay the same, or Kelce and Waller may both get old at the same time and there will be even less depth than before. I'm just saying none of us really know, and also that smart fantasy players should always be looking to leverage betting against what everyone else is so sure of that just ain't so.

 
I don't think that it's an immutable truth, but to be a successful TE you either need to have a lot of targets and target share, or you need to score greater than 10 TDs.  The only thing we can sort of predict with our cloudy crystal ball is anticipated targets.  Pitts will clearly get targets given the preseason chatter about how they're moving him around and Julio gone.  All of the Detroit WRs from last year are gone,  so Hockensen will get his.
yes, but while they may not scare defenses, TyWilliams is a capable WR. He was on a tear his first 5-6 games in Oakland before he got hurt. And they have a few other unheralded but capable receivers. 

Sometimes the narrative grows more legs than reality. I fear that with the Hock narrative. It’s a steady drumbeat or “who else will catch the ball there?!l” and I fear the answer is “a lot of folks, including Swift”. 

I’m of the belief that the truth is somewhere in between, which puts just enough risk with Hock for me to be cautious. Because if he isn’t getting the lion’s share of catches (pun intended)  he’s being over-drafted. 

Can we say with relative certainty that Logan Thomas will get 100 targets?  Lots of mouths to feed in Washington.
I share this concern with Thomas, and will add to it: I’ve read several times now that Fitzmagic has been great for WRs, but hasn’t been as productive with TEs. Miami had a lot of injuries to receivers, most notably Parker & 🦄, so MIA may have been forced to use Gesecki more than Fitz would have had they not been decimated by injury. But it is certainly reason for caution with investing in Thomas.

He & Fant are my “next two” up after the middle 3, and their lower draft price makes them attractive options - but I’m tempering expectations.

Then to your point about being TD dependent, Tonyan comes to mind 1st and foremost. How realistic is it for a guy who sees 2-3 targets a game to score every week? Lots of folks believe ARod will have a negative TD regression this year, which potentially means fewer for Adam’s & Tonyan. Adam’s holds his WR1 value just fine if he loses a few. Tonyan potentially becomes virtually unstartable if he’s got a 30-40% chance of an 8-10 point game & a 60-70% chance of a 2-3 point game. Im just spitballing numbers here, but even if it’s a 50% chance at a TD as a realistic number (vs the ridiculous pace he was in last year) that’s a weekly coin flip - and I’d rather have the TEs taken after who have a better shot at receiving volume.

 
There's only 1 Kelce.

Waller has the greatest chance to be #2, IMHO. My con to Waller is the development of Ruggs/Edwards/Renfrow and addition of Drake/Brown. I think Raiders passing O aggregates will rise, and potentially be more diverse.

Kittle has a great chance to be #3. My con to Kittle is, will he play close to 17 games, the potential for instability at QB, and the addition of Sermon, who I view as the most complete back they've had in a while, upgrading the RB corps (Mostert/Sermon/Gallman/return of Wilson) over previous stables.

Andrews is my solid #4, with #2 upside. The Bateman injury seals the deal for me on this. Every draft I pray Andrews falls to me in the 5th. At that point, I would pass on RB/WR to Roster him. Rarely does he make it out of the 4th, so most of the time I'm not landing him.

Pitts is my #5, but I'm not drafting him at his ADP. The offense Atlanta is installing is very Matt Ryan friendly, and I'm drafting Ryan as a QB2 in many places. I personally like the Falcons skill position players: Davis/Ollison/Patterson etc./Ridley, Gage, Zaccheaus, etc./Pitts/Hurst. I think there's a lot of potential there for the whole being greater than the sum of it's parts. That being said, I'm not investing a high draft pick on a Rookie playing a hybrid position. I am, however, drafting Hurst, very late, in many places, as a TE3 flyer. I think he has some serious upside vs ADP.

Hockenson is my #6...right at this moment. He could move up as far as #3, but at this moment I have no reason to put enough faith in Goff's ability to max utilize all the other pieces that will start in that offense to invest at ADP. I like what I've seen out of St. Brown in the slot. I like the potential of Swift/Jamaal in the passing game. However, all of sudden, that's a bunch of bodies occupying the same target zone (within 10 yards of the LOS). I'm a big fan of Tyrell Williams, but I sure wish he was the #2 to a bona fide #1, and I don't think Goff/Tyrell is an optimal pairing anyway. At that point, he becomes little more than a field stretcher. Cephus, Raymond etc. are nice players, but not special. I've heard reports that Perriman hasn't done anything to distinguish himself. What that tells me is that defenses will squat on the short-to-intermediate zone, and limit access. So, to draft Hock, I'm betting on Goff, which is distasteful in and of itself, and that he'll get enough target share when Goff is being forced to choose between him/St. Brown/Swift/Jamaal, and that Goff can wing it to Tyrell with some degree of success. Way too many 'what if's' for me.

So now we're into the next tier, and my preference here is to draft Higbee in the 8th, if possible, (unfortunately sometimes the 7th, grr...), and Everett in the 12th (11th if I have to). IMHO, these 2 are the most likely to finish at the top of their tier. I'm very high on the McVay/Stafford offense. Subtract Reynolds/Everett, upgrade VanJ, add DJax. I'm not worried about Jacob Harris, Bryson Hopkins or Tutu Atwell. Higbee should be targeted liberally all over the field.

I think everyone else in the tier has warts I can't get past, right now.

Thomas: I'm as big a WFT fan as they come, but I'm a realist. There is no such thing as consistency from Fitz, and there are way too many mouths to feed in the 21 offense. No, thanks, in the 6th-7th.

Fant: I see zero reason to trust the QB situation there at all, right now. It could rotate all year. No, thanks, in the 6th-7th.

Goedert: Hurts/Ertz. No way in the 7th-8th.

Tonyan: my Higbee fallback in the 8th, but I still worry about Jones/Cobb/Amari clogging up target share in the short to intermediate zone, and TD's are unpredictable.

Irv: I have some shares of Irv, and I like the player. I just don't like Zimmer or the offense they run, which refuses to let Kirk cook until the Vikings are in desperation mode. I might take him in the 9th if Higbee goes early and I pass on Tonyan because something else falls, but won't be thrilled.

Gesicki: WE ARE!!! ... but I don't trust Tua. No way, no how, (fastball has) no velocity. Fuller wasted here.  If Brissett were elevated to starter, I'd be more confident. That's how little faith I have in Tua. No fish for me in 21.

Jonnu: I have some Jonnu, but now he's banged up, and so is Henry, and those are the only legit weapons in this passing O, IMHO, plus I don't trust Cam, and don't want to rely on Mac with that surrounding cast. If healthy, has some upside.

Engram: chronic underachiever, Golladay out for a bit, Saquon not 100%, putrid O-Line, Daniel Jones. Way too much risk for me.

Trautman: love the Player, but don't like QB roulette, or the QB's involved in it. No Thomas. Whole O looks like a mess. If he's on the WW mid-Season and Ian Book becomes the starter, I'd take a cheap gamble.

Everett: Ah, now here we go! TE17 in the 10th-14th round. Comes from Rams along with OC Waldron. No 3rd WR option credible enough to sap targets from the most athletic TE the Seahawks have had in I don't know how long. There's no comparison between him and Will Dissly/Colby Parkinson. If any of the bottom of this group has a chance to post a starter-worthy stat line, it's Everett. 

Cook: At his age, lacks 'dynamic', and what's left after Ekeler/Allen/Williams hog up most of the targets in this version of the Saints offense? I don't see nearly enough volume to sniff TE12, which is the floor you need to make any of these guys worth drafting.

That's through TE18

Sure wish Jarwin/Schultz were one person. Same with Gronk/Howard/Brate. Same with Doyle/MAC/Granson.

I'm taking a flyer on Hurst in the 18th-20th everywhere. He's being ranked in the 30's. I strongly feel he can finish as a mid-to-low TE2...but what does TE 16-24 get you, really? There's a path to him doing better than that, but it's mighty narrow, and would require a lot of things to break right, but he is the traditional TE in the offense, has chemistry/trust with Ryan, can handle Red Zone work, and won't be clogged up with blocking duties while logging a massive % of offensive snaps.

Higbee has it, IMHO. TE9 who can flirt with 4-6, preferably in the 8th. Tonyan, maybe, TE11 who's safe to finish inside 7-12, preferably in the 8th, if Higbee goes early. Irv, TE12, in the 9th, with a grimace, but realistic shot at finishing inside 7-12. Jonnu, TE14, if healthy, in the 10th, same deal, 7-12. ***Gerald Everett*** TE17, around the 12th, 7-12 upside. End of draft flyer on Hurst.

...and that's what I have to say, about that.

 
There's only 1 Kelce.

Waller has the greatest chance to be #2, IMHO. My con to Waller is the development of Ruggs/Edwards/Renfrow and addition of Drake/Brown. I think Raiders passing O aggregates will rise, and potentially be more diverse.

Kittle has a great chance to be #3. My con to Kittle is, will he play close to 17 games, the potential for instability at QB, and the addition of Sermon, who I view as the most complete back they've had in a while, upgrading the RB corps (Mostert/Sermon/Gallman/return of Wilson) over previous stables.

Andrews is my solid #4, with #2 upside. The Bateman injury seals the deal for me on this. Every draft I pray Andrews falls to me in the 5th. At that point, I would pass on RB/WR to Roster him. Rarely does he make it out of the 4th, so most of the time I'm not landing him.

Pitts is my #5, but I'm not drafting him at his ADP. The offense Atlanta is installing is very Matt Ryan friendly, and I'm drafting Ryan as a QB2 in many places. I personally like the Falcons skill position players: Davis/Ollison/Patterson etc./Ridley, Gage, Zaccheaus, etc./Pitts/Hurst. I think there's a lot of potential there for the whole being greater than the sum of it's parts. That being said, I'm not investing a high draft pick on a Rookie playing a hybrid position. I am, however, drafting Hurst, very late, in many places, as a TE3 flyer. I think he has some serious upside vs ADP.

Hockenson is my #6...right at this moment. He could move up as far as #3, but at this moment I have no reason to put enough faith in Goff's ability to max utilize all the other pieces that will start in that offense to invest at ADP. I like what I've seen out of St. Brown in the slot. I like the potential of Swift/Jamaal in the passing game. However, all of sudden, that's a bunch of bodies occupying the same target zone (within 10 yards of the LOS). I'm a big fan of Tyrell Williams, but I sure wish he was the #2 to a bona fide #1, and I don't think Goff/Tyrell is an optimal pairing anyway. At that point, he becomes little more than a field stretcher. Cephus, Raymond etc. are nice players, but not special. I've heard reports that Perriman hasn't done anything to distinguish himself. What that tells me is that defenses will squat on the short-to-intermediate zone, and limit access. So, to draft Hock, I'm betting on Goff, which is distasteful in and of itself, and that he'll get enough target share when Goff is being forced to choose between him/St. Brown/Swift/Jamaal, and that Goff can wing it to Tyrell with some degree of success. Way too many 'what if's' for me.

So now we're into the next tier, and my preference here is to draft Higbee in the 8th, if possible, (unfortunately sometimes the 7th, grr...), and Everett in the 12th (11th if I have to). IMHO, these 2 are the most likely to finish at the top of their tier. I'm very high on the McVay/Stafford offense. Subtract Reynolds/Everett, upgrade VanJ, add DJax. I'm not worried about Jacob Harris, Bryson Hopkins or Tutu Atwell. Higbee should be targeted liberally all over the field.

Higbee has it, IMHO. TE9 who can flirt with 4-6, preferably in the 8th. Tonyan, maybe, TE11 who's safe to finish inside 7-12, preferably in the 8th, if Higbee goes early. Irv, TE12, in the 9th, with a grimace, but realistic shot at finishing inside 7-12. Jonnu, TE14, if healthy, in the 10th, same deal, 7-12. ***Gerald Everett*** TE17, around the 12th, 7-12 upside. End of draft flyer on Hurst.


Appreciate your assessment and was once on the Higbee wagon, cuz... Stafford but I just dont see the increase in opportunity from Higbee.  His snapcount, with Everett, has been high.  He seems like the blocking TE and with the Rams addition to their receivers... I see him continuing to be the blocking TE and not being a target hog, which I've mentioned is important to me and where I think the tiers drop off immensely.

Logan Thomas is another one that could outproduce the second tier at a fraction of the price.


Someone else eluded to this, but I don't see much more opportunity from Logan Thomas.  I mean, he had a banner year last year but they've added weapons and have stated more involvement from Gibson is eminent.  

 
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I am ok with Hock or Andrews in the 5th because of the combination of age, athleticism, past performance, draft capital and most importantly their role as the pass target on their teams. For Pitts to pay off where he is going, he needs to be used as a WR and not a TE. It's too big of a gamble for me. 

 
I am ok with Hock or Andrews in the 5th because of the combination of age, athleticism, past performance, draft capital and most importantly their role as the pass target on their teams. For Pitts to pay off where he is going, he needs to be used as a WR and not a TE. It's too big of a gamble for me. 
But he is being used as a WR. And last report I read they were gushing about his RZ potential. 

Of he 4-6, IMO Pitts is the only one who could conceivably finish above everyone not named Kelce.

If it’s the 5th round and Andrews, Hock & Pitts are there, I’m probably gambling on upside. After all, this is what everyone here always says about WR & RB - draft for a player’s ceiling/potential. 

This is the article I referenced. ans ive since seen several clips of him in action. I’m convinced he’s worth it. Others disagree, which is ok. 
https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/fantasy-football-draft-prep-how-kyle-pitts-practices-in-miami-shine-light-on-falcons-rookies-2021-potential/

 
in a 1.5 PPR for TEs, how long do you guys think Andrews, Fant, and Thomas would last? 5th round? 6th round? 


You might get Andrews in the 5th (enhanced TE in FPC, he's going right around the 4/5 turn), but Hock is going early 4th. 6th Round, Fant or Thomas. Higbee in the 7th, early 8th Goedert and Tonyan, 8/9 turn, Irv, late 9th Gesicki, Jonnu 9/10 turn.

 
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You might get Andrews in the 5th (enhanced TE in FPC, he's going right around the 4/5 turn), but Hock is going early 4th. 6th Round, Fant or Thomas. Higbee in the 7th, early 8th Goedert and Tonyan, 8/9 turn, Irv, late 9th Gesicki, Jonnu 9/10 turn.
I have the 5.2 and Andrews/Fant/Thomas are there, but I won't pick again until 6.11, guessing all 3 would be gone by then wouldn't you think? 

 
I have the 5.2 and Andrews/Fant/Thomas are there, but I won't pick again until 6.11, guessing all 3 would be gone by then wouldn't you think? 


Yep, but I wouldn't sweat it. I'd grab Higbee at 7.02 if I didn't pick again until 8.11. Little bit of a reach, but he's my guy...and on the corners, sometimes you have to reach to get those guys. If you like Irv as a fallback, you're taking a risk he makes it to 8.11, and then you've got to reach anyway, for the likes of Gesicki, Jonnu or (puke) Engram, or reach for Trautman/Everett (guys I like, but don't want to reach for), unless you wait and hope for Gronk, or select from Kmet/Jarwin/Cook/Henry at the 12/13 turn. IMHO, that's not appealing at all. Your picks (4.11/5/02) are close enough together, I'd risk missing out on 2 players to take Andrews at 4.11 if he was there...but that's just me.

ETA: just saw you're at 5.02, with Andrews/Fant/Thomas to choose from. I'd break my hand taking Andrews there, unless I felt good about getting Higbee at 6.11, again, given that your picks (6.11/7.02) are so close together. Again, just me.

 
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TE premium I bump them all a round. So Kelce top 6 pick, Waller / Kittle early-mid 2nd, & hock/Andrews/Pitts 3rd 4th. 
I guess I should feel fortunate, just got Andrews at 5.2 in my 12 team PPR best ball league.  :pickle:  (Pitts went mid 4th by the way) 

 
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I'd wait if early return are to be believed. I've mocked a ton over the weekend and have been stunned to see guys like Mike Gesicki, Evan Engram, and Jonnu Smith consistently going 10th-12th round in 14-teamers. It seems like you can get still get a very upsidey TE past the 10th round in most drafts; all you're really looking for is a guy to get 61 yards or a 1-yard TD. If you can get a TE who's targeted a lot/high on the target totem pole, or an end zone demon (or some combo of both) that's bonus.

 
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I'm of the belief that if you pass on the top 4 (Kelce, Kittle, Waller, Pitts) you wait until the end, or close to it.  I'd much rather take a shot on a backup RB in a strong situation than waste it on a middle tier TE.

 
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I guess I should feel fortunate, just got Andrews at 5.2 in my 12 team PPR best ball league.  :pickle:  (Pitts went mid 4th by the way) 
Thanks this is helpful since the Top 3 has a pretty uniform order of Kelce, Waller, Kittle.  Where did Hockenson go?   The 4-6 clump seems to vary in order based on those wanting to take a chance on Pitts, trusting Hockenson in the Lions offense, or expecting a better year from Andrews.   

 
Thanks this is helpful since the Top 3 has a pretty uniform order of Kelce, Waller, Kittle.  Where did Hockenson go?   The 4-6 clump seems to vary in order based on those wanting to take a chance on Pitts, trusting Hockenson in the Lions offense, or expecting a better year from Andrews.   
Perfectly stated. 

If I’m making a play for a TE in the 4th-5th, then I’m shooting for the ceiling. To me, that’s Pitts. But if I miss I’m comfortable taking Andrews or Hock, in that order. I don’t think any are bad value where they’re being selected, but 1-2 of this group could certainly disappoint. 

 
Perfectly stated. 

If I’m making a play for a TE in the 4th-5th, then I’m shooting for the ceiling. To me, that’s Pitts. But if I miss I’m comfortable taking Andrews or Hock, in that order. I don’t think any are bad value where they’re being selected, but 1-2 of this group could certainly disappoint. 
I have it Pitts, Hockenson, Andrews.  

Pitts has the best QB of the three and most upside.  Hockenson should get a ton of targets so he's next.  Andrews should be solid but I have him at the end of the tier.  

It wasn't that long ago that it was a reach to take rookie WRs in redraft.  We always waited until the "year 3 breakout".  Times have changed with the fantasy impact of rookie WRs.  So why can't that evolve to someone like Pitts who has a good QB, targets vacated by Julio, and the draft capital/talent to make an impact?    

 
What's the best rookie TE season in the history of the NFL?

Let's start there for all the Pitts drafters.

Pitts is terrible at ADP IMHO...just terrible..

 
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What's the best rookie TE season in the history of the NFL?

Let's start there for all the Pitts drafters.


I remember Shockey having a great rookie year for the Giants.  74 rec, 894 yards and 2 TDs.  That was almost 20 years ago in an era that was far less friendly to the passing game.

 
I remember Shockey having a great rookie year for the Giants.  74 rec, 894 yards and 2 TDs.  That was almost 20 years ago in an era that was far less friendly to the passing game.
Mackey had 726 / 7 his rookie year.  Pretty damn impressive in an era that ran the ball a lot more than it passed.

 
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My problem with the "upside tier"

Mark Andrews is going high - but if he slid way too far I'd take him

Hockenson is on Dan Campbell's offense  and has yet to prove he can stay healthy, this offense is a greasefire waiting to happen.  Hard Pass at ADP.  

Pitts is a rookie - rookie TEs are almost never elite, I don't bet on outliers.   Hard Pass

Give me Logan Thomas at ADP every time and twice on Sundays.

 
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So why can't that evolve to someone like Pitts who has a good QB, targets vacated by Julio, and the draft capital/talent to make an impact?    
Not to mention his expected role as a primary receiver who plays all over the field, which IMO changes his potential vs other TEs significantly. 

 
My problem with the upside tir

Mark Andrews is going high - but if he slid way too far I'd take him

Hockenson is on Dan Campbell's offense  and has yet to prove he can stay healthy, this offense is a greasefire waiting to happen.  Hard Pass at ADP.  

Pitts is a rookie - rookie TEs are almost never elite, I don't bet on outliers.   Hard Pass

Give me Logan Thomas at ADP every time and twice on Sundays.
the real question is what’s the best a rookie WR has done.

because that’s what Pitts is. 

your evaluation method here is deeply flawed, IMO. And I really hope my 11 league mates agree with you & take this approach so I can land him in the 5th. 

 
the real question is what’s the best a rookie WR has done.

because that’s what Pitts is. 

your evaluation method here is deeply flawed, IMO. And I really hope my 11 league mates agree with you & take this approach so I can land him in the 5th. 


He's not a WR though...at least he won't be lining up as such.  

 
Hock is the safest pick as his floor is TE5.  You also don't have to pay a premium to draft him so his value is high.  He also has upside to TE1.   Goff is going to make a lot of safe throws and that means a ton of targets to the TE and the slot.  Hock will have a significant point edge over any TE drafted after TE6. 

 

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