at least you know not to hope for anything when starting an injured playerI'd take an injured Henry over him at this point and going forward
at least you know not to hope for anything when starting an injured playerI'd take an injured Henry over him at this point and going forward
How about the Bears trading Olsen to the Panthers because Martz didn't want him?This reminds me of how Martz used to use, actually not use, prime Vernon Davis as a receiver.
And: Cheap.How about the Bears trading Olsen to the Panthers because Martz didn't want him?
The Bears traded Olsen because they didn't use him and had absolutely no cap left to sign him at the end of the season.How about the Bears trading Olsen to the Panthers because Martz didn't want him?
And then Martz leaving the Bears soon thereafter?
And Olsen going on to have a great 7+ years including 3 1,000 yard seasons?
Yea, still about that one.
Yes, I just looked it up but didn't have the heart to post the pick received or player taken. :(And: Cheap.
I can still gripe about the Bears/Martz experiment, dammit!The Bears traded Olsen because they didn't use him and had absolutely no cap left to sign him at the end of the season.
As a Bears fan it hurts, but that was the reason for the trade.
Well yeah. That’s kind of the point. He didn’t use one of the best receiving TE’s in history when he had him.The Bears traded Olsen because they didn't use him and had absolutely no cap left to sign him at the end of the season.
As a Bears fan it hurts, but that was the reason for the trade.
Arians used Heath Miller often in the passing game when he was the OC in Pittsburgh. Miller even made the pro bowl under him. Arians has always said that a TE is a blocker first for him, and a catcher second. If Howard can improve his all around game (he has the talent), the passes will come.leopard doesnt change his spots....arians lack of te production was easy to predict
No offense but I don’t know how to say this any nicer. I agreed with everything you said until the last sentence. The last sentence is just dumb.Arians used Heath Miller often in the passing game when he was the OC in Pittsburgh. Miller even made the pro bowl under him. Arians has always said that a TE is a blocker first for him, and a catcher second. If Howard can improve his all around game (he has the talent), the passes will come.
You don’t know how to say it any nicer than “The last sentence is just dumb”? Maybe you shouldn’t be calling anything dumb if that’s the case.No offense but I don’t know how to say this any nicer. I agreed with everything you said until the last sentence. The last sentence is just dumb.
Well, technically I said that what he said was dumb, not him. BUT, you’re right man. I’m better than that. Sorry for saying that Simey. Allow me to ratify my statement. It wasn’t dumb. I just disagreed.You don’t know how to say it any nicer than “The last sentence is just dumb”? Maybe you shouldn’t be calling anything dumb if that’s the case.
If you don't know how to say that any nicer, then maybe you just aren't nice. Anyway, that last sentence wasn't dumb. Bruce Arians said that Howard could play a lot better. He hasn't played well to start the season. If your HC says you need to play better, that means you need to improve. Maybe he is having a hard time adjusting to the new offense. Whatever the reason, even the best can improve in some areas.No offense but I don’t know how to say this any nicer. I agreed with everything you said until the last sentence. The last sentence is just dumb.
Howard is an excellent receiver. Better than brate. And way better with the ball in his hands after the catch. He has elite skills for a TE. And he was one of the most polished and well rounded blocking and catching te’s to come into the league ever. A phenom. Only injuries and idiotic coaching have held him from breaking into the top 3 elite te rankings.
Hey man. Sorry about that. I shouldn’t have said dumb.If you don't know how to say that any nicer, then maybe you just aren't nice. Anyway, that last sentence wasn't dumb. Bruce Arians said that Howard could play a lot better. He hasn't played well to start the season. If your HC says you need to play better, that means you need to improve. Maybe he is having a hard time adjusting to the new offense. Whatever the reason, even the best can improve in some areas.
Hey man. Sorry about that. I shouldn’t have said dumb.
Apology accepted,Hey man. Sorry about that. I shouldn’t have said dumb.
I would say you are probably confusing elite athleticism with elite receiving skills. Howard's production didn't match his elite athleticism in college and now we are seeing the same thing on the pro level. Maybe he hasn't put it together yet and needs to improve as his coach says. Brate and Howard have played together a little over two years. The snap counts is 1151 (Brate) to 1099 (Howard).No offense but I don’t know how to say this any nicer. I agreed with everything you said until the last sentence. The last sentence is just dumb.
Howard is an excellent receiver. Better than brate. And way better with the ball in his hands after the catch. He has elite skills for a TE. And he was one of the most polished and well rounded blocking and catching te’s to come into the league ever. A phenom. Only injuries and idiotic coaching have held him from breaking into the top 3 elite te rankings.
If im arians, and I like using the middle of the field with Godwin, I would LOVE the mismatches I can get in the middle of the field with an elite talent like Howard. He would be an every down player for me with brate on the bench mostly and a focal point of the passing game. The 3 headed monster of Evans/Howard/Godwin can be absolutely deadly. Throw in a deep shot to perriman here and there and you’ve got one hell of an offense.
It might be that the o line is so bad that arians wants Howard’s blocking prowess helping to keep a clean pocket. And I can understand that. However there are a ton of great blocking te’s in the league. And they can be had for cheap. Arians should have signed one of those to stay in and block while letting Howard run free in the middle of the field all game.
I was one of the people who chose not to buy into the “arians doesn’t use te’s “ argument and I resigned Howard in dyno and drafted him in the 5th rd in redraft. Big mistake. At least in redraft. I quickly traded him away on Tuesday when news of Huber Henry’s injury broke. Traded him to the Henry owner for mayfield. So glad I did it. Moving forward with Waller and graham and feel pretty good.
Arians used Heath Miller often in the passing game when he was the OC in Pittsburgh
This is where I am mostly. Howard failing to produce this year would honestly help me w a rebuild in a TE premium dynasty. My concern is whether this is going to be the reality long term since Arians isn’t going anywhere.I have a ton of fantasy teams and OJ Howard on two of them, one of which is a dynasty rebuild so I don't even care if he is not used. I'm saying this to highlight I'm not going on this spiel because I'm a frustrated OJ Howard fantasy owner, in fact on the whole I benefit from his lack of use.
I am not giving up on him but He's earned a nice comfy spot on my bench. I am going with Waller until OJ starts producing.Curious if panicked owners in 12+ team leagues are moving aggressively for plan B trade options.
Nothing is on the wire that's any better.
Think I have an opportunity to trade J. Goff for TJ Hockenson to a troubled Big Ben owner. Thinking about it.
Speaking about O.J. Howard's slow start on Tuesday, Bucs coach Bruce Arians said "the balls will come."
"We don't dictate who gets the ball, the defense does," Arians protested. "So sometimes it will spread around for different people every week." That, of course, makes sense in theory, but it is hard to believe Howard could play 55 snaps and draw zero targets, which is what happened in Week 2. Fantasy players wanted to believe Arians' lack of roto-relevant tight ends in Arizona was more because of a lack of talent than scheme, but it is looking like the uber-talented Howard is going to be a season-long rollercoaster in Arians' offense. It does sound like there is some squeaky wheel potential for Week 3 against the Giants.
SOURCE: Greg Auman on Twitter
Sep 17, 2019, 5:01 PM ET
If there is ever a week he should deliver, it's this one. The Giants haven't been able to stop a TE for what seems like a decade now. Week 1 in Dallas they gave up TD's to both of the TE's. I have a hard time seeing OJ not doing SOMETHING. If he doesn't and Brate does, I say time to move on.Curious if panicked owners in 12+ team leagues are moving aggressively for plan B trade options.
Nothing is on the wire that's any better.
Think I have an opportunity to trade J. Goff for TJ Hockenson to a troubled Big Ben owner. Thinking about it.
Agree.If there is ever a week he should deliver, it's this one. The Giants haven't been able to stop a TE for what seems like a decade now. Week 1 in Dallas they gave up TD's to both of the TE's. I have a hard time seeing OJ not doing SOMETHING. If he doesn't and Brate does, I say time to move on.
O.J. Howard caught 3-of-4 targets for 66 yards in Tampa Bay's Week 3 loss to the Giants.
It's a vast improvement from the egg Howard laid in the box score last week. This of course comes only a few days after coach Bruce Arians said the "balls will come" to the 24-year-old after he was questioned about Howard's lack of involvement on 55 snaps in Week 2's win. Either way, it's a step in the right direction for Tampa Bay's primary tight end, keeping Howard as a hold-your-nose starter for at least one more week.
Sep 22, 2019, 8:30 PM ET
Or is your statement the myth? The truth of the matter is that Arians was neither good nor bad for Heath Miller. Arians merely targeted the TE around the average TE target pace across the NFL with his QB pass attempts (see first paragraph, bolded below). After Arians left, they actually targeted the TE less frequently as a percentage of pass attempts, but it confused casual box score warriors because TE targets went up (see second paragraph, bolded below). As the old phrase goes, a rising tide lifts all ships. So even though PIT TE targets still ranked 25th in league targets, it was a higher total number since the league as a whole was throwing more passes. So Arians was in fact not holding Miller back - he was just not calling a lot of pass plays (for a variety of reasons). I'm confident if Arians had been passing more from 2007-2011, Miller's targets would've gone up accordingly.This is a terribly wrong myth I wish people would keep repeating.
He was the OC for 5 years in Pittsburgh. One year he used him. The other 4 years he did not. This is not using your TE, this is a one year anomaly.
That one year he got 98 target and went for 76/789
The other 4 years with Bruce, playing 60 out of a possible 64 games, he averaged 67 targets for 47/555.
The year after Bruce left Miller had a career high in yards.
Put this another way if you look at his 5 most targeted seasons of his career 4 of them came after Bruce left and then he retired. And considering he was 30-33 during those years when by all accounts his usage should probably decline a little it's even worse.
I have a ton of fantasy teams and OJ Howard on two of them, one of which is a dynasty rebuild so I don't even care if he is not used. I'm saying this to highlight I'm not going on this spiel because I'm a frustrated OJ Howard fantasy owner, in fact on the whole I benefit from his lack of use. But I absolutely hate coaching that can't adjust their scheme for the talent they have. Would say same things about Mike Martz who could not adjust his offense to use Greg Olsen. Bruce Arians has had some good success in this league, he's also the coach who needed injuries to both CJ2K and Andre Ellington for David Johnson to break out late in his rookie season. I personally think he is pretty overrated as an offensive mind, but for sure pretty great for fantasy if you got the primary slot WR in his offense.
From 2007-2011, PIT ranked 26th in pass attempts. When Arians started, the team still had the "run the ball and play defense" mentality, however, passing attempts increased in each of his seasons, going from 442 to 536, despite having the #1 ranked defense in his last two seasons. During that span, they ranked 25th in TE targets, so roughly in line with total pass attempts. As the interim HC for IND he ranked 5th in pass attempts and 13th in TE targets despite only having a pair of rookies to throw to. During his tenure in Arizona, they ranked 10th in pass attempts and they ranked 31st in TE targets. The top 3 over that span were Gresham, Housler, and Fells. So to me it seems he uses what he's got. And given that he had Michael Floyd and John Brown, two very good vertical threats when they were playing (not drunk or injured), to go with Fitzgerald, he really had no need to go out and get a receiving TE given he ran 3WR sets almost all the time.
Of note, from 2012-2015, PIT again ranked 25th in TE targets. The only difference is that the league as a whole was throwing the ball more. The team ranked 10th in pass attempts over those 4 years. So as a % of the offense, the TE targets actually dipped during Haley's tenure as compared to Arians. So it wasn't that Haley was good for Heath and Arians was bad. It was just the larger volume of passes during that time frame (589 PA/season vs. 498) that propped up Heath's stats compared to his time with Arians.
I'm not saying the guy is perfect, but Howard's production per target is indeed elite.I would say you are probably confusing elite athleticism with elite receiving skills. Howard's production didn't match his elite athleticism in college and now we are seeing the same thing on the pro level.
I'm researching OJ Howard now as I was just sent a trade request for Dissly, who is a pleasant surprise. I can't believe I'm questioning holding Dissly > Howard for season long. Is Howard the play ROS. I see Footballguys have Howard at #9 going forward and Dissly at #13. Time to sell high on Dissly and buy low on Howard. I also picked up Olsen cheap early too. Lost Njoku.The "experts" are saying he's a universal sit this weekend. That said, haven't seen any real data on how good the LAR's are against TEs. I thought they were tough on the perimeter, but not so much vs. the middle of the field. If those CBs can lock up Evans (who is also on many sit lists) and Godwin (who may be a tad banged up), maybe OJ gets his this week in a game they'll probably be needing to throw.
I did the same, I love Herndon's potential!I am going to grab Herndon as a stash/insurance. He’s on my WW. Just don’t trust O.J. Maybe this week will change my mind. We’ll see.
Howard has all of 12 targets in 4 games. I was researching him too as a potential buy low, but unless/until he starts seeing more than 3 balls a game, I'd say he's more in the avoid category.I'm researching OJ Howard now as I was just sent a trade request for Dissly, who is a pleasant surprise. I can't believe I'm questioning holding Dissly > Howard for season long. Is Howard the play ROS. I see Footballguys have Howard at #9 going forward and Dissly at #13. Time to sell high on Dissly and buy low on Howard. I also picked up Olsen cheap early too. Lost Njoku.