TE T.J. Hockenson, MIN (2 Viewers)

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Where all them Hock hot takes?

9/9 for 70 wasn't a moonshot, but it was an excellent PPR day.

Of course, Kmet had 2 TDs on my bench, but literally no one saw that coming.

 

[Payne]

Where all them Hock hot takes?

9/9 for 70 wasn't a moonshot, but it was an excellent PPR day.

Of course, Kmet had 2 TDs on my bench, but literally no one saw that coming.

I did say he was not used properly in Detroit and that the move to the Vikings would benefit him, but even I wasn't expecting what he did. Hope it holds up.

 

[Da Guru]

Where all them Hock hot takes?

9/9 for 70 wasn't a moonshot, but it was an excellent PPR day.

Of course, Kmet had 2 TDs on my bench, but literally no one saw that coming.

I did say he was not used properly in Detroit and that the move to the Vikings would benefit him, but even I wasn't expecting what he did. Hope it holds up.

Detroit TEs had 2 TDs on Sunday.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Where all them Hock hot takes?

9/9 for 70 wasn't a moonshot, but it was an excellent PPR day.

Of course, Kmet had 2 TDs on my bench, but literally no one saw that coming.

I did say he was not used properly in Detroit and that the move to the Vikings would benefit him, but even I wasn't expecting what he did. Hope it holds up.

Detroit TEs had 2 TDs on Sunday.

And?

 

[Da Guru]

Where all them Hock hot takes?

9/9 for 70 wasn't a moonshot, but it was an excellent PPR day.

Of course, Kmet had 2 TDs on my bench, but literally no one saw that coming.

I did say he was not used properly in Detroit and that the move to the Vikings would benefit him, but even I wasn't expecting what he did. Hope it holds up.

Detroit TEs had 2 TDs on Sunday.

And?

Maybe the chemistry was not there.

 

[ffmail4me]

Don't have many shares of Hock, but VERY happy he's now on the Vikings. Cousins will pepper him all year long. I'd say he'll be the #2 in targets from here on out.

 

[travdogg]

Very realistic chance he's the best fantasy TE in the NFC going forward.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Where all them Hock hot takes?

9/9 for 70 wasn't a moonshot, but it was an excellent PPR day.

Of course, Kmet had 2 TDs on my bench, but literally no one saw that coming.

I did say he was not used properly in Detroit and that the move to the Vikings would benefit him, but even I wasn't expecting what he did. Hope it holds up.

Detroit TEs had 2 TDs on Sunday.

And?

Maybe the chemistry was not there.

Didn't he have a 180 yard 2 TD game this year with that same chemistry?

 

[matttyl]

Where all them Hock hot takes?

9/9 for 70 wasn't a moonshot, but it was an excellent PPR day.

Of course, Kmet had 2 TDs on my bench, but literally no one saw that coming.

I did say he was not used properly in Detroit and that the move to the Vikings would benefit him, but even I wasn't expecting what he did. Hope it holds up.

Detroit TEs had 2 TDs on Sunday.

And?

Maybe the chemistry was not there.

Didn't he have a 180 yard 2 TD game this year with that same chemistry?

He did - in a game with Swift and St Brown both out. He was literally the only weapon left.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Where all them Hock hot takes?

9/9 for 70 wasn't a moonshot, but it was an excellent PPR day.

Of course, Kmet had 2 TDs on my bench, but literally no one saw that coming.

I did say he was not used properly in Detroit and that the move to the Vikings would benefit him, but even I wasn't expecting what he did. Hope it holds up.

Detroit TEs had 2 TDs on Sunday.

And?

Maybe the chemistry was not there.

Didn't he have a 180 yard 2 TD game this year with that same chemistry?

He did - in a game with Swift and St Brown both out. He was literally the only weapon left.

But still proved pretty capable.

Seems less like chemistry & more like a deliberate decision to not involve him in the offense as a weapon.

Sort of like how everyone was all like “Kmet stinks!” and then whoa they used him and he had 2 TDs.

 

[crushedspirit]

Detroit TEs had 3 catches for 9 yards, but go ahead and chase the TDs in FF LOL

From what I've seen with Hock, it came down to Goff and usage. He will take over from Thielen as the #2 target after JJ, if he hasn't already.

The guy just put up 9-70 vs a D that shut down TEs weekly. His next 2 matchups are against more defenses that shut TEs down, so it will be interesting to see what he does. I'm glad I have him and Goedert rolling.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Detroit TEs had 3 catches for 9 yards, but go ahead and chase the TDs in FF LOL

From what I've seen with Hock, it came down to Goff and usage. He will take over from Thielen as the #2 target after JJ, if he hasn't already.

The guy just put up 9-70 vs a D that shut down TEs weekly. His next 2 matchups are against more defenses that shut TEs down, so it will be interesting to see what he does. I'm glad I have him and Goedert rolling.

They were literally the #1 D against TEs

I was kinda shocked by the target share Hock commanded.

Excited for ROS.

 

[need2know]

Detroit TEs had 3 catches for 9 yards, but go ahead and chase the TDs in FF LOL

From what I've seen with Hock, it came down to Goff and usage. He will take over from Thielen as the #2 target after JJ, if he hasn't already.

The guy just put up 9-70 vs a D that shut down TEs weekly. His next 2 matchups are against more defenses that shut TEs down, so it will be interesting to see what he does. I'm glad I have him and Goedert rolling.

They were literally the #1 D against TEs

I was kinda shocked by the target share Hock commanded.

Excited for ROS.

Started hill over him this past week. Never again

 

[Payne]

Where all them Hock hot takes?

9/9 for 70 wasn't a moonshot, but it was an excellent PPR day.

Of course, Kmet had 2 TDs on my bench, but literally no one saw that coming.

I did say he was not used properly in Detroit and that the move to the Vikings would benefit him, but even I wasn't expecting what he did. Hope it holds up.

Detroit TEs had 2 TDs on Sunday.

You cannot be serious. Let's revisit at the end of the year.

 

[Da Guru]

Where all them Hock hot takes?

9/9 for 70 wasn't a moonshot, but it was an excellent PPR day.

Of course, Kmet had 2 TDs on my bench, but literally no one saw that coming.

I did say he was not used properly in Detroit and that the move to the Vikings would benefit him, but even I wasn't expecting what he did. Hope it holds up.

Detroit TEs had 2 TDs on Sunday.

You cannot be serious. Let's revisit at the end of the year.

I have Hock on one of my teams so I hope he does well. Just saying except for a couple of big games in his career it was not working for him or our FF teams in Detroit.

Brad Holmes is high on James Mitchell so he traded Hock. So if Lions get basically the same production and a couple of draft picks it is a win, win trade for both teams.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Back to Hock....

Johnny Mudt can play inline. K.J. Osborn has 5 targets each of the last 3 games, not doing much with his opportunity. Vikings only give significant snaps to three wideouts. Will be interesting to see if they put T.J. in the Slot or on the boundary 35-40% of the time replacing K.J.

In Detroit he had 265 snaps inline, 123 in the slot and 10 out wide. If they want to commit to using him like a Kelce, Andrews, or Pitts on the rare occasion this year when Arthur Smith doesn't have his head up his own ***, they would put him in the slot >50% of the time.

Week 9 at Commanders (7 g aver w/ Lions)

59 snaps (56.9)
29 inline (37.9)
27 slot (17.57)
4 boundary (1.4)

ETA: season high 36 routes run, average in Detroit was 28.4 (hi 34 lo 25)

 

[beef]

I'm leaning towards starting him over Gesicki or Conklin...

Do it. Seems like a slam dunk start to me.

 

[Da Guru]

Where all them Hock hot takes?

9/9 for 70 wasn't a moonshot, but it was an excellent PPR day.

Of course, Kmet had 2 TDs on my bench, but literally no one saw that coming.

Well you have seen Hock for a few games now and see what he is. A solid but not dynamic TE.

What do you think? Reason I ask is there are talking today about how happy the Lions are with the trade.

 

[travdogg]

Hockenson has clearly usurped the #2 role from Thielen, and just missed having a big day, by TE standards anyway.

Looking like a mutually beneficial trade so far.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Where all them Hock hot takes?

9/9 for 70 wasn't a moonshot, but it was an excellent PPR day.

Of course, Kmet had 2 TDs on my bench, but literally no one saw that coming.

Well you have seen Hock for a few games now and see what he is. A solid but not dynamic TE.

What do you think? Reason I ask is there are talking today about how happy the Lions are with the trade.

So i guess Justin Jefferson sucks too based on the sample size of 1 game vs the Cowboys after the Vikes lost their starting Tackle?


Hock has been great so far, aside from yesterday, and he still managed to outscore Kmet (who was on my bench). He's just fine from a FF standpoint. TE is a wasteland, and I'll take a TE who's targeted at Hock's rate even if the results are sometimes poor.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Hockenson has clearly usurped the #2 role from Thielen, and just missed having a big day, by TE standards anyway.

Looking like a mutually beneficial trade so far.

100%

 

[crushedspirit]

He has been targeted plenty, and just missed a TD this week as well. I said it weeks ago these next few games would be pretty bad matchups, yet he produced by TE standards in PPR.

 

[Da Guru]

Where all them Hock hot takes?

9/9 for 70 wasn't a moonshot, but it was an excellent PPR day.

Of course, Kmet had 2 TDs on my bench, but literally no one saw that coming.

Well you have seen Hock for a few games now and see what he is. A solid but not dynamic TE.

What do you think? Reason I ask is there are talking today about how happy the Lions are with the trade.

So i guess Justin Jefferson sucks too based on the sample size of 1 game vs the Cowboys after the Vikes lost their starting Tackle?


Hock has been great so far, aside from yesterday, and he still managed to outscore Kmet (who was on my bench). He's just fine from a FF standpoint. TE is a wasteland, and I'll take a TE who's targeted at Hock's rate even if the results are sometimes poor.

I have Hock on my keeper team and watched every game he played with Detroit so I know what he is.

Hock is OK, but he should have caught that TD pass.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Hock is OK, but he should have caught that TD pass.

I was working so I’m not sure what pass you’re referring to.

Fortunately I didn’t need him to win this week. Hopefully he’s saving up his TD receptions for my FF playoffs/LCG.

 

[crushedspirit]

Cousins dropped one in his basket perfectly, and Hock muffed it.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Cousins dropped one in his basket perfectly, and Hock muffed it.

I guess the positive there is that Cousins is targeting him deep.

All players drop passes from time to time. I try not to hyper focus on any one drop. It misses the forest for the trees.

 

[crushedspirit]

It was a short TD pass

https://twitter.com/WillRagatz/status/1594447310917861376?s=20&t=ZvBtZylsdy_M-1DjmO02_Q

 

[dkp993]

Where all them Hock hot takes?

9/9 for 70 wasn't a moonshot, but it was an excellent PPR day.

Of course, Kmet had 2 TDs on my bench, but literally no one saw that coming.

Well you have seen Hock for a few games now and see what he is. A solid but not dynamic TE.

What do you think? Reason I ask is there are talking today about how happy the Lions are with the trade.

So i guess Justin Jefferson sucks too based on the sample size of 1 game vs the Cowboys after the Vikes lost their starting Tackle?


Hock has been great so far, aside from yesterday, and he still managed to outscore Kmet (who was on my bench). He's just fine from a FF standpoint. TE is a wasteland, and I'll take a TE who's targeted at Hock's rate even if the results are sometimes poor.

On a day where the O scored a total of 3 points and Cousins threw for a whopping 105 total yards Hock somehow still scored 8ppr points. I’ll take that, and if not for a bad rare drop it would have been 15. The trade to Minn has been a huge win imo.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Where all them Hock hot takes?

9/9 for 70 wasn't a moonshot, but it was an excellent PPR day.

Of course, Kmet had 2 TDs on my bench, but literally no one saw that coming.

Well you have seen Hock for a few games now and see what he is. A solid but not dynamic TE.

What do you think? Reason I ask is there are talking today about how happy the Lions are with the trade.

So i guess Justin Jefferson sucks too based on the sample size of 1 game vs the Cowboys after the Vikes lost their starting Tackle?


Hock has been great so far, aside from yesterday, and he still managed to outscore Kmet (who was on my bench). He's just fine from a FF standpoint. TE is a wasteland, and I'll take a TE who's targeted at Hock's rate even if the results are sometimes poor.

On a day where the O scored a total of 3 points and Cousins threw for a whopping 105 total yards Hock somehow still scored 8ppr points. I’ll take that, and if not for a bad rare drop it would have been 15. The trade to Minn has been a huge win imo.

Totally agree. I don’t get the slander. He went from a top 6-8 TE to a top 3-4 TE.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Anyone still questioning the value bump Hock got when he went to the Vikes?

 

[need2know]

Do it daddy

 

[travdogg]

At the risk of being that guy, I wasn't comforted by seeing Theilen rise up to outargeting, outcatching, and outscoring Hock this week. Was kinda hoping he'd left him in the dust.

 

[Faust]

T.J. Hockenson caught 5-of-6 targets for 43 yards and a touchdown in the Vikings' Week 12 win over the Patriots.​

Hockenson took a backseat to Adam Thielen as Kirk Cousins' second-favorite pass-catcher in this contest. The aging receiver out-targeted him 10-6. Still, Hockenson saved his drafters with a goal line catch for six points just before halftime. He has at least five catches in all four of his games with the Vikings. Hockenson is shaping up to be a top-five fantasy tight end in Week 13 against the Jets.
Nov 25, 2022, 12:08 AM ET

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

At the risk of being that guy, I wasn't comforted by seeing Theilen rise up to outargeting, outcatching, and outscoring Hock this week. Was kinda hoping he'd left him in the dust.

I have no idea why you’d expect that. Thielen is going to benefit from JJ & hock - he’s still one of Cousin’s favorite targets.

this Pats defense has been stingy against the pass. I’m super happy with his performance tonight.

He was also in & out of the lineup early - dunno if he’s dealing with something, or the Vikes wanted to go blocker heavy on run plays, but that also limited him a bit tonight. Seemed like a lower snap share than usual.

 

[Da Guru]

Anyone still questioning the value bump Hock got when he went to the Vikes?

Pretty much the same thing he was doing with Detroit. 40-50 yards and a TD every couple of games or so.

I have Hock so I am hoping he gets more in the coming weeks.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Anyone still questioning the value bump Hock got when he went to the Vikes?

Pretty much the same thing he was doing with Detroit. 40-50 yards and a TD every couple of games or so.

I have Hock so I am hoping he gets more in the coming weeks.

Say, how'd the DET TEs fare yesterday?

 

[Da Guru]

Anyone still questioning the value bump Hock got when he went to the Vikes?

Pretty much the same thing he was doing with Detroit. 40-50 yards and a TD every couple of games or so.

I have Hock so I am hoping he gets more in the coming weeks.

Say, how'd the DET TEs fare yesterday?

I don`t have any of them. I have Hock.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Anyone still questioning the value bump Hock got when he went to the Vikes?

Pretty much the same thing he was doing with Detroit. 40-50 yards and a TD every couple of games or so.

I have Hock so I am hoping he gets more in the coming weeks.

Say, how'd the DET TEs fare yesterday?

I don`t have any of them. I have Hock.

Seems relevant since you're saying there's no difference.

I just checked. They fared poorly.

It's a little weird to be in denial about Hock's value bump on the Vikings. Seems like his targets are way up, and outside of that fluky 44 point game, his weekly production is actually higher on average than when he was with DET.

You should be happy about it!

 

[Da Guru]

Anyone still questioning the value bump Hock got when he went to the Vikes?

Pretty much the same thing he was doing with Detroit. 40-50 yards and a TD every couple of games or so.

I have Hock so I am hoping he gets more in the coming weeks.

Say, how'd the DET TEs fare yesterday?

I don`t have any of them. I have Hock.

Seems relevant since you're saying there's no difference.

I just checked. They fared poorly.

It's a little weird to be in denial about Hock's value bump on the Vikings. Seems like his targets are way up, and outside of that fluky 44 point game, his weekly production is actually higher on average than when he was with DET.

You should be happy about it!

Was hoping for more.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Was hoping for more.

Keep in mind he’s still learning a new offense, and the Pats appeared to be giving him extra attention to take away Cousins safety valve.

I expect him to get better and better over the next few weeks.

 

[travdogg]

Anyone still questioning the value bump Hock got when he went to the Vikes?

Pretty much the same thing he was doing with Detroit. 40-50 yards and a TD every couple of games or so.

I have Hock so I am hoping he gets more in the coming weeks.

Say, how'd the DET TEs fare yesterday?

I don`t have any of them. I have Hock.

Seems relevant since you're saying there's no difference.

I just checked. They fared poorly.

It's a little weird to be in denial about Hock's value bump on the Vikings. Seems like his targets are way up, and outside of that fluky 44 point game, his weekly production is actually higher on average than when he was with DET.

You should be happy about it!

That's a pretty bad faith argument. Obviously, Hockenson is better than James Mitchell or Brock Wright. It's not like he was splitting time with them in Detroit.

Hockenson has been slightly better in Minnesota. More targets for sure, but also used less down the field. With the shape of the TE position any upgrade is more than welcome, but it shouldn't be overstated. He was top-5 in Detroit, and he's top-5 now.

 

[BobbyLayne]

His ADOT has dropped two yards in MIN (was 7.5 in DET, 5.5 since trade)

YAC was 7.5 with Lions, 2.4 with Vikings

3 drops before the trade, 2 drops since the trade

yardage has been 70, 45, 34, 43

running more routes and getting more targets which should translate eventually but it's not like he got traded and morphed into Kelce

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

His ADOT has dropped two yards in MIN (was 7.5 in DET, 5.5 since trade)

YAC was 7.5 with Lions, 2.4 with Vikings

3 drops before the trade, 2 drops since the trade

yardage has been 70, 45, 34, 43

running more routes and getting more targets which should translate eventually but it's not like he got traded and morphed into Kelce

I don't think anyone said he did, but he is certainly in a better situation, and appears to be higher in rank for targets in MIN. Not to mention on a competing team, which maybe matters, maybe doesn't (I think it does).

I'd prefer "targets, receptions" to yardage & drops.

 

[ffspacey]

For those who drafted Hock as a rookie and have held, we couldn't be happier right now. Consistency was always an issue in DET, and to see MIN immediately ensure quality targets every game is the most that shareholders could hope for. Regardless how you slice it, as I expect that his usage and production will increase over time, Hock's FF future is much brighter after this change.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Anyone still questioning the value bump Hock got when he went to the Vikes?

Pretty much the same thing he was doing with Detroit. 40-50 yards and a TD every couple of games or so.

I have Hock so I am hoping he gets more in the coming weeks.

Say, how'd the DET TEs fare yesterday?

I don`t have any of them. I have Hock.

Seems relevant since you're saying there's no difference.

I just checked. They fared poorly.

It's a little weird to be in denial about Hock's value bump on the Vikings. Seems like his targets are way up, and outside of that fluky 44 point game, his weekly production is actually higher on average than when he was with DET.

You should be happy about it!

That's a pretty bad faith argument. Obviously, Hockenson is better than James Mitchell or Brock Wright. It's not like he was splitting time with them in Detroit.

Hockenson has been slightly better in Minnesota. More targets for sure, but also used less down the field. With the shape of the TE position any upgrade is more than welcome, but it shouldn't be overstated. He was top-5 in Detroit, and he's top-5 now.

It wasn't a bad faith argument, just a comparison of situation. Obviously Hock is better than what's left in DET.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

For those who drafted Hock as a rookie and have held, we couldn't be happier right now. Consistency was always an issue in DET, and to see MIN immediately ensure quality targets every game is the most that shareholders could hope for. Regardless how you slice it, as I expect that his usage and production will increase over time, Hock's FF future is much brighter after this change.

100% agreed. This is also my take - his target share is a priority in MIN, and while I love love love me some ARSB, he's no JJ when it comes to drawing coverage.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Alignment stats for Week 12 won’t be out until midweek. Detroit & 1st 3 in Minnesota:

Outside: 9 + 10
Slot: 133 + 74
Tight: 165 + 88

Snaps have dropped to 80% Sunday and 77% yesterday. His usage has been more like Andrews, the inline snaps are going to the blocking TEs. Very hard to find blocking assignments but just the alignment shift is significant - from 1/3rd being used as a WR to closer to 50%.

Had 4 20 yard chunk receptions in Detroit, 2 went for over 40. His longest reception as a Viking is 19 yards. 5 receptions for first downs his last 3 games, which is basically any three game stretch in his career.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Alignment stats for Week 12 won’t be out until midweek. Detroit & 1st 3 in Minnesota:

Outside: 9 + 10
Slot: 133 + 74
Tight: 165 + 88

Snaps have dropped to 80% Sunday and 77% yesterday. His usage has been more like Andrews, the inline snaps are going to the blocking TEs. Very hard to find blocking assignments but just the alignment shift is significant - from 1/3rd being used as a WR to closer to 50%.

Had 4 20 yard chunk receptions in Detroit, 2 went for over 40. His longest reception as a Viking is 19 yards. 5 receptions for first downs his last 3 games, which is basically any three game stretch in his career.

Ok, so first off, you're comparing a multi year career to a 4-game span, which is a bit off.

IMO his usage Sunday was in response to how NEP was playing them - MIN was clearly trying to establish Cook early (and unsuccessfully) - so Hock hardly played the 1st quarter. When he got on the field he was heavily involved, with multiple catches & a TD in a pretty short span.

Not saying your numbers are off - just that they may not be meaningful.

 

[BobbyLayne]

His data in 4 games with Minnesota vs looks like a few more routes & a lot more catches, from high value alignment. That usually portends higher production.

Judging by his ADOT (which is all of his opportunities), reception length and YAC (receptions only), he’s not running vertical routes.

So far he looks like the same guy he’s always been. Good player, not elite. But he should be a focal point ROS on a good offense. TE is a wasteland so pretty much guaranteed he’ll be TE4-7 by default.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

His data in 4 games with Minnesota vs looks like a few more routes & a lot more catches, from high value alignment. That usually portends higher production.

Judging by his ADOT (which is all of his opportunities), reception length and YAC (receptions only), he’s not running vertical routes.

So far he looks like the same guy he’s always been. Good player, not elite. But he should be a focal point ROS on a good offense. TE is a wasteland so pretty much guaranteed he’ll be TE4-7 by default.

The bolded has been my observation.

I believe it's fair to expect more as he becomes more familiar with the offense he's been learning on the fly. It's hard to believe he's only been there 4 games, considering how he's hit the ground running.

This may also be the reason for lower snap counts. The backup TEs know the whole playbook. Hopefully that, too trends upwards over the next 7 weeks.