TE Tyler Warren, IND (1 Viewer)

[oldmanhawkins]

TEs with 1st round draft capital the past 10 years:
Eric Ebron
David Njoku
Evan Engram
OJ Howard
Hayden Hurst
Noah Fant
TJ Hockenson
Kyle Pitts
Brock Bowers

One of these things is not like the others...
I don't really care to put in the leg work breaking down where all these guys finished over their careers against the TE field respective to the ADP cost of those other TEs, or what other positional players were drafted right after them in fantasy ADP and how they performed comparatively. Regardless, people will do some mental gymnastics to explain how "yeah, but this time is different!!!". All I know is I won't be touching Warren or Loveland in the first round (especially considering one of them is highly likely to be a Colt) unless we basically get the worst possible outcomes for the top 8 or so RBs and the top 4 or so WRs. And even then... I'll probably let someone else take the very, very low percentage gamble based on historical data and trends. Only in a TE premium would I even consider it, and it would take more than a .5 PPR boost to sway me.

Edit: ten years wasn't a meaningful cutoff either, you can take it back another 10 years and add another 10 - 12 first round TEs where you could make the case maybe 1 (Greg Olsen) was worth it. Tyler Eifert, Jermaine Gresham, Brandon Pettigrew, Dustin Keller, Vernon Davis, Marcedes Lewis, Heath Miller... and on and on...

don't forget Kincaid who is also in that bust category right now
Looking at the list of TEs draft I noticed that the 1st 1 in the draft classis usually a bust, odd that teams still get this position wrong more times than not

Good call, definitely overlooked him. The pisser is some of these guys are really, really good NFL players with exceptionally high talent levels. Its just TE is probably the second hardest position to play next to QB, especially when looking at the step up from college to NFL. And also you just need so many other things to break your way that are really out of player control to be a consistently high fantasy producer. Pitts had a top 6 TE finish, as did Njoku, Engram's had 3. But its much more reliant on team fit, scheme, play calling, QB, surrounding talent... Would Bowers have even been Bowers last season if didn't land on a team devoid of offensive talent? An OC who made Robert Tonyan and Cole Kmet fantasy relevant? A QB with a penchant for zeroing in on one guy and throwing to that guy regardless of coverage and situation in Minschew? I think he'd still have been A TE1, just not THE TE1.

Even from a value collection standpoint, it just doesn't add up to me taking Warren or Loveland as a mid to late first round rookie pick. What's their realistic absolute ceiling? Top 3 TE? LaPorta, a known commodity and the current TE3, is ranked 54 in startup ADP. Now what's the realistic absolute ceiling for guys like Burden, Egbuka, Judkins, Henderson, Johnson? Top 6 RBs, especially considering the currently weak state of the position in dynasty. And WR8-12 maybe if you get the Aiyuk/ARSB comps widely connected with those two. RB6 Breece Hall is pick 36 in start up ADP, and WR12 is mad Ladd going at pick 29. Even if these tight ends reach their ceilings, they just aren't worth the value in dynasty leagues of the WRs/RBs in that ADP range if they also hit their ceilings.

Obviously everyone wants the next Bowers. But even outside the nearly astronomical odds either of these guys will ever be that; the cost to value proposition just is not good. I'll gladly buy a couple $1 lottery tickets to maybe win a million. But when you start charging $100 a ticket, I'll look a bit closer at those actual odds of hitting and pass.

I think you've hit the nail on the head with the comparison of TE's to QB's. If we think about why QBs fail, there are a whole plethora of reasons that we can't always prognosticate. For WRs it is really simple...if you can get open, you will get on the field and can fairly easily become the #1 or #2 option on your team. For RBs there are more hurdles but still fairly straightforward...avoid injuries, don't fumble and pass block and you will get on the field and can be fantasy relevant for a spell even if you are inefficient with your touches.

The list you shared shows that for TEs there are so many variables that can prevent a talented TE from being reliably fantasy relevant.
Health, scheme, pecking order, red zone usage, blocking ability...if any of these are suboptimal a really talented TE will just be a semi-startable guy for fantasy. Often, the TE will have a really great year early career (Sam LaPorta) or late career (Johnnu Smith) or randomly sprinkled mid career (Vernon Davis) but trusting them year in and year out is much harder than at other positions.

My strategy at the position has always been to try to identify who has a path to 100+ targets. That process is pretty sound as I generally avoid spending picks on Dallas Goedert or Cole Kmet or Friermuth. Of course, I was burned by Dalton Kincaid in multiple leagues...

 

[Gatorade]

TEs with 1st round draft capital the past 10 years:
Eric Ebron
David Njoku
Evan Engram
OJ Howard
Hayden Hurst
Noah Fant
TJ Hockenson
Kyle Pitts
Brock Bowers

One of these things is not like the others...
I don't really care to put in the leg work breaking down where all these guys finished over their careers against the TE field respective to the ADP cost of those other TEs, or what other positional players were drafted right after them in fantasy ADP and how they performed comparatively. Regardless, people will do some mental gymnastics to explain how "yeah, but this time is different!!!". All I know is I won't be touching Warren or Loveland in the first round (especially considering one of them is highly likely to be a Colt) unless we basically get the worst possible outcomes for the top 8 or so RBs and the top 4 or so WRs. And even then... I'll probably let someone else take the very, very low percentage gamble based on historical data and trends. Only in a TE premium would I even consider it, and it would take more than a .5 PPR boost to sway me.

Edit: ten years wasn't a meaningful cutoff either, you can take it back another 10 years and add another 10 - 12 first round TEs where you could make the case maybe 1 (Greg Olsen) was worth it. Tyler Eifert, Jermaine Gresham, Brandon Pettigrew, Dustin Keller, Vernon Davis, Marcedes Lewis, Heath Miller... and on and on...

don't forget Kincaid who is also in that bust category right now
Looking at the list of TEs draft I noticed that the 1st 1 in the draft classis usually a bust, odd that teams still get this position wrong more times than not

Good call, definitely overlooked him. The pisser is some of these guys are really, really good NFL players with exceptionally high talent levels. Its just TE is probably the second hardest position to play next to QB, especially when looking at the step up from college to NFL. And also you just need so many other things to break your way that are really out of player control to be a consistently high fantasy producer. Pitts had a top 6 TE finish, as did Njoku, Engram's had 3. But its much more reliant on team fit, scheme, play calling, QB, surrounding talent... Would Bowers have even been Bowers last season if didn't land on a team devoid of offensive talent? An OC who made Robert Tonyan and Cole Kmet fantasy relevant? A QB with a penchant for zeroing in on one guy and throwing to that guy regardless of coverage and situation in Minschew? I think he'd still have been A TE1, just not THE TE1.

Even from a value collection standpoint, it just doesn't add up to me taking Warren or Loveland as a mid to late first round rookie pick. What's their realistic absolute ceiling? Top 3 TE? LaPorta, a known commodity and the current TE3, is ranked 54 in startup ADP. Now what's the realistic absolute ceiling for guys like Burden, Egbuka, Judkins, Henderson, Johnson? Top 6 RBs, especially considering the currently weak state of the position in dynasty. And WR8-12 maybe if you get the Aiyuk/ARSB comps widely connected with those two. RB6 Breece Hall is pick 36 in start up ADP, and WR12 is mad Ladd going at pick 29. Even if these tight ends reach their ceilings, they just aren't worth the value in dynasty leagues of the WRs/RBs in that ADP range if they also hit their ceilings.

Obviously everyone wants the next Bowers. But even outside the nearly astronomical odds either of these guys will ever be that; the cost to value proposition just is not good. I'll gladly buy a couple $1 lottery tickets to maybe win a million. But when you start charging $100 a ticket, I'll look a bit closer at those actual odds of hitting and pass.

I think you've hit the nail on the head with the comparison of TE's to QB's. If we think about why QBs fail, there are a whole plethora of reasons that we can't always prognosticate. For WRs it is really simple...if you can get open, you will get on the field and can fairly easily become the #1 or #2 option on your team. For RBs there are more hurdles but still fairly straightforward...avoid injuries, don't fumble and pass block and you will get on the field and can be fantasy relevant for a spell even if you are inefficient with your touches.

The list you shared shows that for TEs there are so many variables that can prevent a talented TE from being reliably fantasy relevant.
Health, scheme, pecking order, red zone usage, blocking ability...if any of these are suboptimal a really talented TE will just be a semi-startable guy for fantasy. Often, the TE will have a really great year early career (Sam LaPorta) or late career (Johnnu Smith) or randomly sprinkled mid career (Vernon Davis) but trusting them year in and year out is much harder than at other positions.

My strategy at the position has always been to try to identify who has a path to 100+ targets. That process is pretty sound as I generally avoid spending picks on Dallas Goedert or Cole Kmet or Friermuth. Of course, I was burned by Dalton Kincaid in multiple leagues...

I got burned big time drafting Michael Meyers early the previous year because of need. Luckily, last year I doubled down and took Bowers. I will be more cautious in the future expecting too much from rookie TEs.

 

[efactor]

TEs with 1st round draft capital the past 10 years:
Eric Ebron
David Njoku
Evan Engram
OJ Howard
Hayden Hurst
Noah Fant
TJ Hockenson
Kyle Pitts
Brock Bowers

One of these things is not like the others...
I don't really care to put in the leg work breaking down where all these guys finished over their careers against the TE field respective to the ADP cost of those other TEs, or what other positional players were drafted right after them in fantasy ADP and how they performed comparatively. Regardless, people will do some mental gymnastics to explain how "yeah, but this time is different!!!". All I know is I won't be touching Warren or Loveland in the first round (especially considering one of them is highly likely to be a Colt) unless we basically get the worst possible outcomes for the top 8 or so RBs and the top 4 or so WRs. And even then... I'll probably let someone else take the very, very low percentage gamble based on historical data and trends. Only in a TE premium would I even consider it, and it would take more than a .5 PPR boost to sway me.

Edit: ten years wasn't a meaningful cutoff either, you can take it back another 10 years and add another 10 - 12 first round TEs where you could make the case maybe 1 (Greg Olsen) was worth it. Tyler Eifert, Jermaine Gresham, Brandon Pettigrew, Dustin Keller, Vernon Davis, Marcedes Lewis, Heath Miller... and on and on...

don't forget Kincaid who is also in that bust category right now
Looking at the list of TEs draft I noticed that the 1st 1 in the draft classis usually a bust, odd that teams still get this position wrong more times than not

Good call, definitely overlooked him. The pisser is some of these guys are really, really good NFL players with exceptionally high talent levels. Its just TE is probably the second hardest position to play next to QB, especially when looking at the step up from college to NFL. And also you just need so many other things to break your way that are really out of player control to be a consistently high fantasy producer. Pitts had a top 6 TE finish, as did Njoku, Engram's had 3. But its much more reliant on team fit, scheme, play calling, QB, surrounding talent... Would Bowers have even been Bowers last season if didn't land on a team devoid of offensive talent? An OC who made Robert Tonyan and Cole Kmet fantasy relevant? A QB with a penchant for zeroing in on one guy and throwing to that guy regardless of coverage and situation in Minschew? I think he'd still have been A TE1, just not THE TE1.

Even from a value collection standpoint, it just doesn't add up to me taking Warren or Loveland as a mid to late first round rookie pick. What's their realistic absolute ceiling? Top 3 TE? LaPorta, a known commodity and the current TE3, is ranked 54 in startup ADP. Now what's the realistic absolute ceiling for guys like Burden, Egbuka, Judkins, Henderson, Johnson? Top 6 RBs, especially considering the currently weak state of the position in dynasty. And WR8-12 maybe if you get the Aiyuk/ARSB comps widely connected with those two. RB6 Breece Hall is pick 36 in start up ADP, and WR12 is mad Ladd going at pick 29. Even if these tight ends reach their ceilings, they just aren't worth the value in dynasty leagues of the WRs/RBs in that ADP range if they also hit their ceilings.

Obviously everyone wants the next Bowers. But even outside the nearly astronomical odds either of these guys will ever be that; the cost to value proposition just is not good. I'll gladly buy a couple $1 lottery tickets to maybe w head with the comparison of TE's to QB's. If we think about why QBs fail, there are a whole plethora of reasons that we can't always prognosticate. For WRs it is really simple...if you can get open,yo will get on the field and can be fantasy relevant for a spell even if you are inefficient with your touches.

The list you shared shows that for TEs there are so many variables that can prevent a talented TE from being reliably fantasy relevant.
Health, scheme, pecking order, red zone usage, blocking ability...if any of these are suboptimal a really talented TE will just be a semi-startable guy for fantasy. Often, the TE will have a really great year early career (Sam LaPorta) or late career (Johnnu Smith) or randomly sprinkled mid career (Vernon Davis) but trusting them year in and year out is much harder than at other positions.

My strategy at the position has always been to try to identify who has a path to 100+ targets. That process is pretty sound as I generally avoid spending picks on Dallas Goedert or Cole Kmet or Friermuth. Of course, I was burned by Dalton Kincaid in multiple leagues...

I got burned big time drafting Michael Meyers early the previous year because of need. Luckily, last year I doubled down and took Bowers. I will be more cautious in the future expecting too much from rookie TEs.

Agree for the most part. The reason I wasn't as worried about Bowers last year despite his less than ideal landing spot is he's not really a TE. He's a big slot receiver that you get to play at TE. Pitts was the same thing and did well his rookie year.

Would love to see Warren end up with the Chargers. I have pick 4 overall in a DEVY league so most of the top players in FF dynasty are already gone. Warren is there still and will be tough to pass on if he ends up in a good spot.

 

[menobrown]

TEs with 1st round draft capital the past 10 years:
Eric Ebron
David Njoku
Evan Engram
OJ Howard
Hayden Hurst
Noah Fant
TJ Hockenson
Kyle Pitts
Brock Bowers

One of these things is not like the others...
I don't really care to put in the leg work breaking down where all these guys finished over their careers against the TE field respective to the ADP cost of those other TEs, or what other positional players were drafted right after them in fantasy ADP and how they performed comparatively. Regardless, people will do some mental gymnastics to explain how "yeah, but this time is different!!!". All I know is I won't be touching Warren or Loveland in the first round (especially considering one of them is highly likely to be a Colt) unless we basically get the worst possible outcomes for the top 8 or so RBs and the top 4 or so WRs. And even then... I'll probably let someone else take the very, very low percentage gamble based on historical data and trends. Only in a TE premium would I even consider it, and it would take more than a .5 PPR boost to sway me.

Edit: ten years wasn't a meaningful cutoff either, you can take it back another 10 years and add another 10 - 12 first round TEs where you could make the case maybe 1 (Greg Olsen) was worth it. Tyler Eifert, Jermaine Gresham, Brandon Pettigrew, Dustin Keller, Vernon Davis, Marcedes Lewis, Heath Miller... and on and on...

don't forget Kincaid who is also in that bust category right now
Looking at the list of TEs draft I noticed that the 1st 1 in the draft classis usually a bust, odd that teams still get this position wrong more times than not

Good call, definitely overlooked him. The pisser is some of these guys are really, really good NFL players with exceptionally high talent levels. Its just TE is probably the second hardest position to play next to QB, especially when looking at the step up from college to NFL. And also you just need so many other things to break your way that are really out of player control to be a consistently high fantasy producer. Pitts had a top 6 TE finish, as did Njoku, Engram's had 3. But its much more reliant on team fit, scheme, play calling, QB, surrounding talent... Would Bowers have even been Bowers last season if didn't land on a team devoid of offensive talent? An OC who made Robert Tonyan and Cole Kmet fantasy relevant? A QB with a penchant for zeroing in on one guy and throwing to that guy regardless of coverage and situation in Minschew? I think he'd still have been A TE1, just not THE TE1.

Even from a value collection standpoint, it just doesn't add up to me taking Warren or Loveland as a mid to late first round rookie pick. What's their realistic absolute ceiling? Top 3 TE? LaPorta, a known commodity and the current TE3, is ranked 54 in startup ADP. Now what's the realistic absolute ceiling for guys like Burden, Egbuka, Judkins, Henderson, Johnson? Top 6 RBs, especially considering the currently weak state of the position in dynasty. And WR8-12 maybe if you get the Aiyuk/ARSB comps widely connected with those two. RB6 Breece Hall is pick 36 in start up ADP, and WR12 is mad Ladd going at pick 29. Even if these tight ends reach their ceilings, they just aren't worth the value in dynasty leagues of the WRs/RBs in that ADP range if they also hit their ceilings.

Obviously everyone wants the next Bowers. But even outside the nearly astronomical odds either of these guys will ever be that; the cost to value proposition just is not good. I'll gladly buy a couple $1 lottery tickets to maybe win a million. But when you start charging $100 a ticket, I'll look a bit closer at those actual odds of hitting and pass.

I agree with your analysis about how TE's need things to break right. Made some long winded post on it a few weeks ago here, why we see stuff like Jonnu Smith breaking out in year 9.

But my single simple question is your analysis of productive fantasy relevant TE's based on regular PPR or TEP?

I mainly play TEP and look at things from that view point. Saying that I did not look at that list you put together and conclude drafting rookie TE's in round one was actually a bad play. What gets tricky sometimes in judging a player "hitting" is how long did it take, how long did it last, etc,etc. But way I see it at a point in their careers 6 of those 9 TE's had value on par or more with what their draft capital was to acquire them. The 3 who did not are Hurst, Fant and Howard and even last two probably offered an exit out for a little return after year one, like you probably paid a first but could have at least likely exited out for a second after a year in TEP. Hurts never offered that but he was also a second round pick in my leagues, even in TEP I was not in any league where people were taking him in round one.

Kincaid is still tbd. My guess is he'll end up like a lot of these you listed, he's eventualy going to hit but it will be subjective if the time he took to hit qualifies as a success drafting him dynasty.

 

[Winning IS Everything]

I am picking at 1.07, eyeing Warren, but depending on what team drafts him, he might not be there at 1.07. But I could also use WR and RB, so it will be BPA, like it should be for me.
If Loveland lands with LAC or another TE needy team with a good QB, should he be considered at 1.07?

I have 1.4 and 1.6 now. 1.4 will be the leftover of Jeanty, Hampton, Henderson or likely Judkins as RB are always hard to find. 1.6 will be used for Warren, McMillan or Burden most likely.

I'm leery of Burden. I'm still onboard but cautious. Is he more the 2023 version or the 2024 version? Is he system dependent? He seemed to get open more in 2023. Did all of sudden in 2024 did teams suddenly cover him more, or was it more the way they used him? This is why I'm asking is he system dependent.

I am also leery of him and he would only be the pick if the others are not there. Having Kittle as my TE in dynasty, Warren is my need and likely pick if there.

 

[JohnnyU]

I am picking at 1.07, eyeing Warren, but depending on what team drafts him, he might not be there at 1.07. But I could also use WR and RB, so it will be BPA, like it should be for me.
If Loveland lands with LAC or another TE needy team with a good QB, should he be considered at 1.07?

I have 1.4 and 1.6 now. 1.4 will be the leftover of Jeanty, Hampton, Henderson or likely Judkins as RB are always hard to find. 1.6 will be used for Warren, McMillan or Burden most likely.

I'm leery of Burden. I'm still onboard but cautious. Is he more the 2023 version or the 2024 version? Is he system dependent? He seemed to get open more in 2023. Did all of sudden in 2024 did teams suddenly cover him more, or was it more the way they used him? This is why I'm asking is he system dependent.

I am also leery of him and he would only be the pick if the others are not there. Having Kittle as my TE in dynasty, Warren is my need and likely pick if there.

I probably should have posted that in the Burden thread. That way replies to it doesn't make others think we're talking about Tyler Warren when the reply didn't mention Burden.

 

[pinkstapler]

TEs with 1st round draft capital the past 10 years:
Eric Ebron
David Njoku
Evan Engram
OJ Howard
Hayden Hurst
Noah Fant
TJ Hockenson
Kyle Pitts
Brock Bowers

One of these things is not like the others...
I don't really care to put in the leg work breaking down where all these guys finished over their careers against the TE field respective to the ADP cost of those other TEs, or what other positional players were drafted right after them in fantasy ADP and how they performed comparatively. Regardless, people will do some mental gymnastics to explain how "yeah, but this time is different!!!". All I know is I won't be touching Warren or Loveland in the first round (especially considering one of them is highly likely to be a Colt) unless we basically get the worst possible outcomes for the top 8 or so RBs and the top 4 or so WRs. And even then... I'll probably let someone else take the very, very low percentage gamble based on historical data and trends. Only in a TE premium would I even consider it, and it would take more than a .5 PPR boost to sway me.

Edit: ten years wasn't a meaningful cutoff either, you can take it back another 10 years and add another 10 - 12 first round TEs where you could make the case maybe 1 (Greg Olsen) was worth it. Tyler Eifert, Jermaine Gresham, Brandon Pettigrew, Dustin Keller, Vernon Davis, Marcedes Lewis, Heath Miller... and on and on...

don't forget Kincaid who is also in that bust category right now
Looking at the list of TEs draft I noticed that the 1st 1 in the draft classis usually a bust, odd that teams still get this position wrong more times than not

Good call, definitely overlooked him. The pisser is some of these guys are really, really good NFL players with exceptionally high talent levels. Its just TE is probably the second hardest position to play next to QB, especially when looking at the step up from college to NFL. And also you just need so many other things to break your way that are really out of player control to be a consistently high fantasy producer. Pitts had a top 6 TE finish, as did Njoku, Engram's had 3. But its much more reliant on team fit, scheme, play calling, QB, surrounding talent... Would Bowers have even been Bowers last season if didn't land on a team devoid of offensive talent? An OC who made Robert Tonyan and Cole Kmet fantasy relevant? A QB with a penchant for zeroing in on one guy and throwing to that guy regardless of coverage and situation in Minschew? I think he'd still have been A TE1, just not THE TE1.

Even from a value collection standpoint, it just doesn't add up to me taking Warren or Loveland as a mid to late first round rookie pick. What's their realistic absolute ceiling? Top 3 TE? LaPorta, a known commodity and the current TE3, is ranked 54 in startup ADP. Now what's the realistic absolute ceiling for guys like Burden, Egbuka, Judkins, Henderson, Johnson? Top 6 RBs, especially considering the currently weak state of the position in dynasty. And WR8-12 maybe if you get the Aiyuk/ARSB comps widely connected with those two. RB6 Breece Hall is pick 36 in start up ADP, and WR12 is mad Ladd going at pick 29. Even if these tight ends reach their ceilings, they just aren't worth the value in dynasty leagues of the WRs/RBs in that ADP range if they also hit their ceilings.

Obviously everyone wants the next Bowers. But even outside the nearly astronomical odds either of these guys will ever be that; the cost to value proposition just is not good. I'll gladly buy a couple $1 lottery tickets to maybe win a million. But when you start charging $100 a ticket, I'll look a bit closer at those actual odds of hitting and pass.

I think you've hit the nail on the head with the comparison of TE's to QB's. If we think about why QBs fail, there are a whole plethora of reasons that we can't always prognosticate. For WRs it is really simple...if you can get open, you will get on the field and can fairly easily become the #1 or #2 option on your team. For RBs there are more hurdles but still fairly straightforward...avoid injuries, don't fumble and pass block and you will get on the field and can be fantasy relevant for a spell even if you are inefficient with your touches.

The list you shared shows that for TEs there are so many variables that can prevent a talented TE from being reliably fantasy relevant.
Health, scheme, pecking order, red zone usage, blocking ability...if any of these are suboptimal a really talented TE will just be a semi-startable guy for fantasy. Often, the TE will have a really great year early career (Sam LaPorta) or late career (Johnnu Smith) or randomly sprinkled mid career (Vernon Davis) but trusting them year in and year out is much harder than at other positions.

My strategy at the position has always been to try to identify who has a path to 100+ targets. That process is pretty sound as I generally avoid spending picks on Dallas Goedert or Cole Kmet or Friermuth. Of course, I was burned by Dalton Kincaid in multiple leagues...

Haha I think we all have been burned before. Most of what drove me to the points I made above was learning the hard lesson after spending high draft picks on both Erik Ebron, and later down the line another swing and a miss on OJ Howard (who continued hurting me as I refused to drop him out of fear the minute I let him go would be when he would finally hit).

 

[pinkstapler]

TEs with 1st round draft capital the past 10 years:
Eric Ebron
David Njoku
Evan Engram
OJ Howard
Hayden Hurst
Noah Fant
TJ Hockenson
Kyle Pitts
Brock Bowers

One of these things is not like the others...
I don't really care to put in the leg work breaking down where all these guys finished over their careers against the TE field respective to the ADP cost of those other TEs, or what other positional players were drafted right after them in fantasy ADP and how they performed comparatively. Regardless, people will do some mental gymnastics to explain how "yeah, but this time is different!!!". All I know is I won't be touching Warren or Loveland in the first round (especially considering one of them is highly likely to be a Colt) unless we basically get the worst possible outcomes for the top 8 or so RBs and the top 4 or so WRs. And even then... I'll probably let someone else take the very, very low percentage gamble based on historical data and trends. Only in a TE premium would I even consider it, and it would take more than a .5 PPR boost to sway me.

Edit: ten years wasn't a meaningful cutoff either, you can take it back another 10 years and add another 10 - 12 first round TEs where you could make the case maybe 1 (Greg Olsen) was worth it. Tyler Eifert, Jermaine Gresham, Brandon Pettigrew, Dustin Keller, Vernon Davis, Marcedes Lewis, Heath Miller... and on and on...

don't forget Kincaid who is also in that bust category right now
Looking at the list of TEs draft I noticed that the 1st 1 in the draft classis usually a bust, odd that teams still get this position wrong more times than not

Good call, definitely overlooked him. The pisser is some of these guys are really, really good NFL players with exceptionally high talent levels. Its just TE is probably the second hardest position to play next to QB, especially when looking at the step up from college to NFL. And also you just need so many other things to break your way that are really out of player control to be a consistently high fantasy producer. Pitts had a top 6 TE finish, as did Njoku, Engram's had 3. But its much more reliant on team fit, scheme, play calling, QB, surrounding talent... Would Bowers have even been Bowers last season if didn't land on a team devoid of offensive talent? An OC who made Robert Tonyan and Cole Kmet fantasy relevant? A QB with a penchant for zeroing in on one guy and throwing to that guy regardless of coverage and situation in Minschew? I think he'd still have been A TE1, just not THE TE1.

Even from a value collection standpoint, it just doesn't add up to me taking Warren or Loveland as a mid to late first round rookie pick. What's their realistic absolute ceiling? Top 3 TE? LaPorta, a known commodity and the current TE3, is ranked 54 in startup ADP. Now what's the realistic absolute ceiling for guys like Burden, Egbuka, Judkins, Henderson, Johnson? Top 6 RBs, especially considering the currently weak state of the position in dynasty. And WR8-12 maybe if you get the Aiyuk/ARSB comps widely connected with those two. RB6 Breece Hall is pick 36 in start up ADP, and WR12 is mad Ladd going at pick 29. Even if these tight ends reach their ceilings, they just aren't worth the value in dynasty leagues of the WRs/RBs in that ADP range if they also hit their ceilings.

Obviously everyone wants the next Bowers. But even outside the nearly astronomical odds either of these guys will ever be that; the cost to value proposition just is not good. I'll gladly buy a couple $1 lottery tickets to maybe win a million. But when you start charging $100 a ticket, I'll look a bit closer at those actual odds of hitting and pass.

I agree with your analysis about how TE's need things to break right. Made some long winded post on it a few weeks ago here, why we see stuff like Jonnu Smith breaking out in year 9.

But my single simple question is your analysis of productive fantasy relevant TE's based on regular PPR or TEP?

I mainly play TEP and look at things from that view point. Saying that I did not look at that list you put together and conclude drafting rookie TE's in round one was actually a bad play. What gets tricky sometimes in judging a player "hitting" is how long did it take, how long did it last, etc,etc. But way I see it at a point in their careers 6 of those 9 TE's had value on par or more with what their draft capital was to acquire them. The 3 who did not are Hurst, Fant and Howard and even last two probably offered an exit out for a little return after year one, like you probably paid a first but could have at least likely exited out for a second after a year in TEP. Hurts never offered that but he was also a second round pick in my leagues, even in TEP I was not in any league where people were taking him in round one.

Kincaid is still tbd. My guess is he'll end up like a lot of these you listed, he's eventualy going to hit but it will be subjective if the time he took to hit qualifies as a success drafting him dynasty.

Definitely based on non-TEP leagues. I've dabbled a few times in TEP, thankfully only in redraft formats because I did not like it at all. I'm sure the settings can be tweaked to achieve a more desirable result, but in my experience all TEP did was further separate the elite TEs from the rest of the pack, exacerbating their impact to the point they almost became like QBs in a SF. Sure TEs between ranks like 5-20 got some flex appeal as their scoring fell closer in line with WR3/4s; but overall they still felt mostly TD dependent outside those few at the top who were major parts of their offenses on a weekly basis.

In those leagues, I can definitely see Loveland and Warren being valued in the 1st round depending on the league settings.

And yeah for sure agree on the second bolded point. The TEs I listed as a means to point out highly touted TEs with first round draft capital very rarely turn into a Bowers; but some of them could be drafted in fantasy in the late second and third rounds of rookie drafts. At that price, they could definitely be viewed as worthwhile picks. In fact I'm sure some were probably turned around and traded after a big season for huge returns and made their drafters very happy haha. Goes back to my lottery ticket analogy. For a reasonably priced entry, I'll gladly take the gamble. I'm not even that wildly far off with Warren and Loveland. I'd just feel more comfortable taking them in the mid second (pending RB landing spots; if everyone in that third tier falls to day 3, then I'd probably move Warren and Loveland up closer to early 2nd, maybe even at the turn). It's really the thought of people taking them in the mid first that gives me pause (again, in nonTEP at least).

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

I think it is important to make the distinction between fantasy and real football. In fantasy football I can see the case for really delaying drafting TE's. I drafted Gronk and cut him, which is probably a common story. It is hard to hold on to someone all year without being able to play them. However it probably cost me 2-3 championships. In real football that player might still be making big contributions blocking.

I think Warren's value is way higher than most though. Depending on landing spot I would be willing to use a high pick on him.

 

[FantasyGuru24]

It would awesome if KC moves up to get Warren .. Andy would have a field day scheming up plays for him

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

It would awesome if KC moves up to get Warren .. Andy would have a field day scheming up plays for him

He would be the goalline qb

 

[Donnybrook]

I just did a mock that had Denver trading with New Orleans. Denver comes up to #9 for Tyler Warren and New Orleans positions themselves in front of Pittsburgh to catch a falling QB (maybe).

NOS #9 pick @ 1350

DEN #20 pick @ 850
DEN #51 pick @ 390
DEN includes Jarrett Stidham

Sean Payton has a history of trading up. I think many of the players that NO want/need will still be available at 20. God I need to get a life... lol

 

[Faust]

Could draft prospect Tyler Warren solve Colts' TE problems?

 

[Faust]

Good Morning Football
.@YogiRoth explains why @PennStateFball TE Tyler Warren is a unique prospect

https://x.com/gmfb/status/1913224765520900290?s=61

 

[mjb03003]

Let's say Tyler Warren goes in the top 15-20 picks to a team that has no other viable TE and a glaring need for a new weapon in the passing game.

Would Warren merit consideration as high as 1.02 in 2.0 PPR TE Prem formats? Already ranked as a top 5 dynasty TE most places, and he seems more likely to have staying power at the top of his position for a long time in dynasty than some of the top options at QB (Ward) or WR (McMillan). At RB there are a lot of viable picks at 1.02 but there is also so much depth and so many strong prospects that taking stabs at that position later in rookie drafts might yield better results for dynasty team building.

Thoughts?

 

[socrates]

Let's say Tyler Warren goes in the top 15-20 picks to a team that has no other viable TE and a glaring need for a new weapon in the passing game.

Would Warren merit consideration as high as 1.02 in 2.0 PPR TE Prem formats? Already ranked as a top 5 dynasty TE most places, and he seems more likely to have staying power at the top of his position for a long time in dynasty than some of the top options at QB (Ward) or WR (McMillan). At RB there are a lot of viable picks at 1.02 but there is also so much depth and so many strong prospects that taking stabs at that position later in rookie drafts might yield better results for dynasty team building.

Thoughts?

Let me preface my thoughts by stating that I do not play in any TE Premium Leagues. That said, I would be reluctant to take Warren so early. The hit rate on Tight Ends, even really good prospects, is not particularly high. The best TE prospects often come from the middle to late rounds.

I have seen many tremendously talented TE prospects fall short, so there is a risk anytime you take a TE with an early pick; it is an extremely difficult position to project. The floor for TE prospects is always low. I have seen my share of sure-fire TE prospects never live up to the hype. Most recently, Kyle Pitts and Dalton Kincaid have failed to reach their lofty projections. I am not ready to declare them busts, but disappointments thus far. Johnny Mitchell was going to take the league by storm. Kyle Brady was going to be the face of the Jets’ franchise (in a sense, he was). Bubba Franks was going to be the next Kellen Winslow (Sr). Rickey Dudley was an athletic freak. Kellen Winslow, Jr. was a can’t-miss prospect. OJ Howard was touted as the most complete TE prospect in a decade. All first-round busts. Eric Ebron (2014, 1.10) was drawing comparisons to Vernon Davis, and while he was not a total bust, he certainly never lived up to his draft status. Meanwhile, Tight Ends like Ben Coates (5th Round), Shannon Sharpe (7th Round), Antonio Gates (3rd Round), Travis Kelce (3rd Round), Darren Waller (6th Round), Mark Andrews (3rd Round) and George Kittle (5th Round) were not the top Tight End prospects in their draft classes. Even Rob Gronkowski (2nd Round) was drafted a round behind Jermaine Gresham.

Bowers is a rare exception, and if you are chasing the next Bowers, you may be waiting a long time. I like Warren and Loveland, but I will likely pass on them and target either Mason Taylor or Elijah Arroyo later in the draft.

 

[pinkstapler]

Let's say Tyler Warren goes in the top 15-20 picks to a team that has no other viable TE and a glaring need for a new weapon in the passing game.

Would Warren merit consideration as high as 1.02 in 2.0 PPR TE Prem formats? Already ranked as a top 5 dynasty TE most places, and he seems more likely to have staying power at the top of his position for a long time in dynasty than some of the top options at QB (Ward) or WR (McMillan). At RB there are a lot of viable picks at 1.02 but there is also so much depth and so many strong prospects that taking stabs at that position later in rookie drafts might yield better results for dynasty team building.

Thoughts?

Let me preface my thoughts by stating that I do not play in any TE Premium Leagues. That said, I would be reluctant to take Warren so early. The hit rate on Tight Ends, even really good prospects, is not particularly high. The best TE prospects often come from the middle to late rounds.

I have seen many tremendously talented TE prospects fall short, so there is a risk anytime you take a TE with an early pick; it is an extremely difficult position to project. The floor for TE prospects is always low. I have seen my share of sure-fire TE prospects never live up to the hype. Johnny Mitchell was going to take the league by storm. Kyle Brady was going to be the face of the Jets’ franchise (in a sense, he was). Bubba Franks was going to be the next Kellen Winslow (Sr). Rickey Dudley was an athletic freak. Kellen Winslow, Jr. was a can’t-miss prospect. OJ Howard was touted as the most complete TE prospect in a decade. All first-round busts. Eric Ebron (2014, 1.10) was drawing comparisons to Vernon Davis, and while he was not a total bust, he certainly never lived up to his draft status. Meanwhile, Tight Ends like Ben Coates (5th Round), Shannon Sharpe (7th Round), Antonio Gates (3rd Round), Travis Kelce (3rd Round), Darren Waller (6th Round), Mark Andrews (3rd Round) and George Kittle (5th Round) were not the top Tight End prospects in their draft classes. Even Rob Gronkowski (2nd Round) was drafted a round behind Jermaine Gresham.

Bowers is a rare exception, and if you are chasing the next Bowers, you may be waiting a long time. I like Warren and Loveland, but I will likely pass on them and target either Mason Taylor or Elijah Arroyo later in the draft.

Same preface and just another reluctance to add... Warren himself just doesn't seem like a high ceiling guy to me, at least not as much as Loveland (or even Fannin but odds of any TE not Warren/Loveland going that high in the draft are slim). He has poor length/wingspan, not explosive, not a great blocker (so I have to question snap counts)...

Warren did hardly anything for PSU until this last season, it was his fifth season, and it wasn't like he was buried the previous years. He played in nearly every game from 21-23 as well and had almost no production. What happened in 2024? IMO PSU had one of the worst sets of offensive skill players I've seen. QB was shaky, their WR room was putrid, RB was ho-hum. Basically they had nothing aside from Warren. Now he certainly took the opportunity and ran with it, but they tailored that entire offense around manufacturing him touches. This happened to such a great amount he was also rushing the ball on plays, and I think they used him as QB a few times too. I just worry how well it will translate and see him being landing spot dependent to the point I care about that almost more than his exact draft capital. Eg. He could land on the Bengals and be a starting immediate every snap player (if his blocking improves a lot). But they don't feature tight ends, and how much effort will they put into it when they have Chase and Higgins? I just see more paths to a winding up a replaceable low end TE1 than anything. Happy to take that at the 1/2 turn, but really wouldn't want to gamble 1.02 on it; even with the 2 point PPR TEP format.

If you're really keen on taking him early in a TEP, I'd be praying for the Bears to snag him. Obviously great draft capital, clear path to starting, creative OC (who we watched scheme LaPorta to the TE1 overall his rookie season) just two years ago. That would move the needle on Warren for me quite a bit.

 

[mjb03003]

Appreciate the thoughts @socrates and @pinkstapler - I think the ways NFL teams use athletic, pass-catching TEs has changed quite a lot in recent years, making it a little bit easier to project fantasy friendly profiles and landing spots.

To give a little more background on my thinking, as far as why I would even consider Warren at 1.02... I took over an orphan that holds 2nd pick and has a lot of needs (WR being the only position where I'm solid). In this particular format young, dynamic, pass-catching TEs are worth a ton, and hold value extremely well. Football Guys' own dynasty rankings (customized for this particular league) have Warren as the 2nd highest ranked rookie (41st overall, and TE6) ahead of Cam Ward (45th overall, QB20), Colston Loveland (58th overall, TE9), Tet McMillan (59th overall, WR21), and Omarion Hampton (63rd overall, RB8). KTC has Warren ranked #2 as well (when turning on the TE++ option). So adjusting for the format, Warren (or Loveland depending on draft capital and landing spot) could be very valuable AND could hold value extremely well.

All that said, I am looking for ways to trade down and pick up some extra pick(s). That way I still have a shot at one of the top TEs but I'm not overpaying or setting back my rebuild considerably if they flop. Having Hampton or Ward as the "safe" pick if I end up keeping the 1.02 is a pretty good place to be in, since this roster needs RB and QB and those players also seem likely to hold their value.

 

[pinkstapler]

Appreciate the thoughts @socrates and @pinkstapler - I think the ways NFL teams use athletic, pass-catching TEs has changed quite a lot in recent years, making it a little bit easier to project fantasy friendly profiles and landing spots.

To give a little more background on my thinking, as far as why I would even consider Warren at 1.02... I took over an orphan that holds 2nd pick and has a lot of needs (WR being the only position where I'm solid). In this particular format young, dynamic, pass-catching TEs are worth a ton, and hold value extremely well. Football Guys' own dynasty rankings (customized for this particular league) have Warren as the 2nd highest ranked rookie (41st overall, and TE6) ahead of Cam Ward (45th overall, QB20), Colston Loveland (58th overall, TE9), Tet McMillan (59th overall, WR21), and Omarion Hampton (63rd overall, RB8). KTC has Warren ranked #2 as well (when turning on the TE++ option). So adjusting for the format, Warren (or Loveland depending on draft capital and landing spot) could be very valuable AND could hold value extremely well.

All that said, I am looking for ways to trade down and pick up some extra pick(s). That way I still have a shot at one of the top TEs but I'm not overpaying or setting back my rebuild considerably if they flop. Having Hampton or Ward as the "safe" pick if I end up keeping the 1.02 is a pretty good place to be in, since this roster needs RB and QB and those players also seem likely to hold their value.

If the league is also SF, yeah I feel like history has shown us from a value retention standpoint QB is by far the safest. We've seen rookie QBs have horrid first seasons and retain almost the exact value they had going into year 2. Obviously they are supremely valued in SF, but feels like they get a lot more leeway and excuses made for them when they perform poorly year 1 than others.

 

[mjb03003]

If the league is also SF

It is.

 

[phandango]

Let's say Tyler Warren goes in the top 15-20 picks to a team that has no other viable TE and a glaring need for a new weapon in the passing game.

Would Warren merit consideration as high as 1.02 in 2.0 PPR TE Prem formats? Already ranked as a top 5 dynasty TE most places, and he seems more likely to have staying power at the top of his position for a long time in dynasty than some of the top options at QB (Ward) or WR (McMillan). At RB there are a lot of viable picks at 1.02 but there is also so much depth and so many strong prospects that taking stabs at that position later in rookie drafts might yield better results for dynasty team building.

Thoughts?

Is this a Scott Fish league? I don't play in those anymore, but I used to.

In 2 PPR, Bowers deserved to go 1.02 last year. Warren isn't a Bowers-level prospect, so even if everything aligned and he went to a great situation, I'd likely do my best to try to move down from 1.02 if I could drop 1-3 spots. If I couldn't drop back, I'd likely just take Ward -- QBs in superflex can have a poor rookie year and still retain a ton of value in Year 2. (So can TEs, but I still think people value QBs more, even in 2 PPR TE leagues.)

 

[JohnnyU]

I think he willl go earlier than my Colts pick at 14. I may like Loveland more than him anyway. Speaking purely from a football perspective, not fantasy. Obviously if one lands with AR and the Colts it won't be great for fantasy.

 

[barackdhouse]

I think he willl go earlier than my Colts pick at 14. I may like Loveland more than him anyway. Speaking purely from a football perspective, not fantasy. Obviously if one lands with AR and the Colts it won't be great for fantasy.

I consider Indy one of the top landing spots. Young inexperienced QBs have a tendency to pepper their TE. And the depth chart seems open to me.

 

[JohnnyU]

I think he willl go earlier than my Colts pick at 14. I may like Loveland more than him anyway. Speaking purely from a football perspective, not fantasy. Obviously if one lands with AR and the Colts it won't be great for fantasy.

I consider Indy one of the top landing spots. Young inexperienced QBs have a tendency to pepper their TE. And the depth chart seems open to me.

I wouldn’t rely on that for fantasy success generally.

 

[Faust]

Mike Renner
it makes no sense given his tape and height, but I think it's interesting that Tyler Warren has the smallest wingspan in the entire tight end class

it's an inch shorter than his height! (6-4 1/2" vs. 6-5 1/2")

https://x.com/mikerenner_/status/1915393682838073806?s=61

 

[JohnnyU]

Now that Loveland is off the board I wonder if someone will move up to 13 and snipe Warren from the Colts

 

[socrates]

Now that Loveland is off the board I wonder if someone will move up to 13 and snipe Warren from the Colts

I was sorta hoping someone would. Not sure I love the Colts for Warren.

 

[JohnnyU]

Now that Loveland is off the board I wonder if someone will move up to 13 and snipe Warren from the Colts

I was sorta hoping someone would. Not sure I love the Colts for Warren.

For the Colts I love. For fantasy not so much

 

[Ack88]

Best value of round #1.

 

[-OZ-]

Now that Loveland is off the board I wonder if someone will move up to 13 and snipe Warren from the Colts

I was sorta hoping someone would. Not sure I love the Colts for Warren.

For the Colts I love. For fantasy not so much

That’s the rub. I really need a TE in my main league. Kinda stacked on offense, potentially otherwise. I think Loveland with the bears is better long term, but your point in that thread is sound, they might be late firsts after the running backs get sorted out.

 

[Faust]

Next Gen Stats
RD 1 | PK 14 - Colts: Tyler Warren TE, Colts

With the 14th overall pick, the @Colts select the 2nd-highest rated prospect from the this year's class by the NGS overall score (92). His 98 production score is the 3rd-highest mark by a tight end over the last five years.

Warren will look to improve a tight end room that recorded a league-low 232 yards after catch in 2024.

https://x.com/nextgenstats/status/1915582295383368054?s=61

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

Now that Loveland is off the board I wonder if someone will move up to 13 and snipe Warren from the Colts

I was sorta hoping someone would. Not sure I love the Colts for Warren.

For the Colts I love. For fantasy not so much

I agree. I think he is a top 5 talent and could have been a big fantasy asset, but for fantasy this was his worst landing spot.

 

[beef]

Hate the landing spot. Indy is close to getting demoted from the NFL to the MAC too.

 

[barackdhouse]

wow so I really love the spot, not sure why the negative talk about it. one of the draft pundits nailed it - when you have 7 TEs on your roster you have 0 TEs on your roster. He can own that position for the Colts and AR has a good chance of locking onto him. Indy was one of my fav landing spots for one of the top 2 TEs.

 

[smbkrypt24]

wow so I really love the spot, not sure why the negative talk about it. one of the draft pundits nailed it - when you have 7 TEs on your roster you have 0 TEs on your roster. He can own that position for the Colts and AR has a good chance of locking onto him. Indy was one of my fav landing spots for one of the top 2 TEs.

I would assume the hate is from the lack of QB position

 

[barackdhouse]

wow so I really love the spot, not sure why the negative talk about it. one of the draft pundits nailed it - when you have 7 TEs on your roster you have 0 TEs on your roster. He can own that position for the Colts and AR has a good chance of locking onto him. Indy was one of my fav landing spots for one of the top 2 TEs.

I would assume the hate is from the lack of QB position

Well ok but that is pretty short sighted IMO. There is nothing young inexperienced QBs like more than a TE they can trust, and I don't see anyone else there dominating target share. Is Pittman even healthy? I kind of like Downs as a sleeper but I think people are writing Richardson's eulogy remarkably prematurely.

 

[Faust]

Chris Trapasso
14. Colts - Tyler Warren, TE, Penn State

Warren is more offensive weapon than classic TE. Not going to be big separator. But can do essentially everything else. Great hands. Can physically overwhelm. Quality YAC. Colts need more weapons. Solid pick here.

Grade: B

https://x.com/christrapasso/status/1915585084255580604?s=61

 

[Faust]

Robert Griffin III
Tyler Warren is the closest thing I have seen to Rob Gronkowski.

BIG. STRONG. PHYSICAL. A nose for the end zone.

But you might as well call him Swiss Army Warren because he can block, catch, rush and throw the ball as he had a receiving, rushing and passing TD last year.

Colts tight ends combined for a league-low 39 catches in 2024, so there's a massive need and Warren is the answer.

#NFLDraft #NFL #RG3 #OuttaPocket

https://x.com/rgiii/status/1915593646969081888?s=61

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

wow so I really love the spot, not sure why the negative talk about it. one of the draft pundits nailed it - when you have 7 TEs on your roster you have 0 TEs on your roster. He can own that position for the Colts and AR has a good chance of locking onto him. Indy was one of my fav landing spots for one of the top 2 TEs.

I would assume the hate is from the lack of QB position

It is also that Indy likely negates some added value he could have brought as a wildcat

 

[-OZ-]

Hate the landing spot. Indy is close to getting demoted from the NFL to the MAC too.

As much as I like cheering against the colts, if they’re the MAC, my titans would be lucky to get into conference USA.

 

[pinkstapler]

Robert Griffin III
Tyler Warren is the closest thing I have seen to Rob Gronkowski.

BIG. STRONG. PHYSICAL. A nose for the end zone.

But you might as well call him Swiss Army Warren because he can block, catch, rush and throw the ball as he had a receiving, rushing and passing TD last year.

Colts tight ends combined for a league-low 39 catches in 2024, so there's a massive need and Warren is the answer.

#NFLDraft #NFL #RG3 #OuttaPocket

https://x.com/rgiii/status/1915593646969081888?s=61

Every time I feel like I'm being too critical of Warren I see something like this and go back to pointing out the negatives; but I won't do that again. Just will say Rob Gronkowski is certainly a take, that's for sure.

I don't think the landing spot is great for fantasy, but it's also not the worst. Agree with the "if you have 7 tight ends you have 0" stance, but I'm in a weird spot because I feel higher than consensus on both Pittman and Downs by quite a bit. So I don't really think there's some gaping hole at offensive talent on that roster. And ARich seems to struggle more with short throws than long, so not sure if Warren would benefit much from this weak QB specifically as much as other TEs benefit from the typical one.

Not sure exactly where he will fall in my personal post draft ADP, but I feel confident saying it's not likely I own him anywhere unless he's lasting into the second round of rookie drafts regularly.

 

[Sunday Gravy]

All of a sudden I'm into Daniel Jones here. The Colts, as of today, have way better weapons than Jones ever had in Jersey.

 

[steelcityman]

wow so I really love the spot, not sure why the negative talk about it. one of the draft pundits nailed it - when you have 7 TEs on your roster you have 0 TEs on your roster. He can own that position for the Colts and AR has a good chance of locking onto him. Indy was one of my fav landing spots for one of the top 2 TEs.

I would assume the hate is from the lack of QB position

Well ok but that is pretty short sighted IMO. There is nothing young inexperienced QBs like more than a TE they can trust, and I don't see anyone else there dominating target share. Is Pittman even healthy? I kind of like Downs as a sleeper but I think people are writing Richardson's eulogy remarkably prematurely.

Pittman is fine, according to him, no surgery needed. 100% now. But a good TE is always good for a QB. They need to simplify their offense, 3 reads max, then run. They have 3 good WRs, a solid TE in the making, and an elite RB. They dont need him to be Mahomes or Burrow. Just be Jalen Hurts part 2.

 

[zed2283]

They've had 3 big TEs for several years and haven't figured out how to use them. My observation from many years of ff is that TEs are always open and can always be a factor if someone (QB, OC, etc.) would just throw it to them. I hate this landing spot.

 

[JohnnyU]

They've had 3 big TEs for several years and haven't figured out how to use them. My observation from many years of ff is that TEs are always open and can always be a factor if someone (QB, OC, etc.) would just throw it to them. I hate this landing spot.

As a Colts fan I can say without hesitation that the TEs they've rostered aren't very good. They haven't had a TE this good since Dallas Clark. I know people in this thread probably just care about fantasy stats he can provide, but as a Colts fan I really wanted one of the two top TEs and they got one. So I couldn't be happier.

 

[Ben & Jerry's]

Richardson will be on a short leash. If he can't connect with the TE, Jones will get his shot. Things could be setting up nicely for Jones.

 

[JohnnyU]

Richardson will be on a short leash. If he can't connect with the TE, Jones will get his shot. Things could be setting up nicely for Jones.

Richardson couldn’t find the hole if he was sitting on the

 

[IHEARTFF]

Colts have pretty sick weaponry. Can anyone hit a guy in his hands?

 

[Ilov80s]

Colts have pretty sick weaponry. Can anyone hit a guy in his hands?

Once they shift Richardson to TE, they can roll out 3 TE looks with Mo Allie Cox, Tyler Warren and Anthony Richardson. Freaks of nature those 3.

 

[IHEARTFF]

Colts have pretty sick weaponry. Can anyone hit a guy in his hands?

Once they shift Richardson to TE, they can roll out 3 TE looks with Mo Allie Cox, Tyler Warren and Anthony Richardson. Freaks of nature those 3.

triple reverse RPO time