Ted Ginn vs. Sidney Rice (1 Viewer)

[offdee]

Scouring thru threads there seems to be thoughts all over the board on these 2 WR's and seem to be interchangeable in many rookie WR rankings (usually between #3 & #4 respectively).

The constant I'm finding between the two are that both are "raw" and "still learning the nuances of the position", but both have extremely high ceilings.

With Ted Ginn there is always the SPEED observations.....but, will his possibly high draft position be a product of teams viewing him not only as a WR, but a dangerous Punt/Kick returner ala Devin Hester this past season? Unfortunately the special teams play doesn't have any factor for most of our FF teams, so don't think one can say because he'll most likely be drafted higher than Rice that he's simply the better WR talent.

With Sidney Rice there is the observations that he has all the tools to dominate, but also seems to disappear in games. Rice has a reputation of toying with lesser competition, but disappearing against top level competition.....but, was this a product of his play or the bad QB play?

For those that feel strongly one way or the other, why will one of these guys be a more valuable Fantasy WR 3+ years from now?

(For Ginn, I know it's hard, but please try to leave the evaluations of Punt/Kick returning value out of this equation and just focus strictly on comparing the two's WR skills translating at the next level)

 

[aposulli]

Ginn will certainly be a deep threat wherever he goes and could immediatly produce as a long range target ala Ashley Lelie in his career thus far... but I expect him to learn the game much quicker (and become much tougher) than Lelie and become sort of a Lee Evans/Javon Walker type.

Rice on the other hand... love his raw talent... almost like Calvin Johnson, except not as strong or mature.

Tough to gauge how fast he really is, but we will find out soon enough at the combine. He could be a poor man's Randy Moss or Chris Henry less 8 arrests.

So while they're obviously alot different in their abilities, their fantasy potential is probly about the same.

Assuming Rice is as fast as he appears (somwhere in the range of 4.5), then I'd say by his third year he should be a solid 10-TD threat in the range of 900-1200 yds.

Ginn will be a threat for many big plays early and by his 3rd year I expect around 17-18 yards per catch (could be 1000-1200) and closer to maxing out at 8 TDs depending on the Offense he is in.

 

[EBF]

Who knows?

Write the names Ginn, Rice, Bowe, and Meachem on little scraps of paper. Throw the scraps into a hat. Shake the hat around. Pick a scrap. That's your winner.

It's very close between these four right now. Hindsight will be 20/20 and it's highly likely that at least 1-2 of these WRs will bust, but there doesn't appear to be a huge gap in their long-term prospects at the moment.

I wouldn't say any of them are hopeless and I wouldn't say any of them are flawless.

I'd probably take Bowe over Ginn and Rice though. Bowe just strikes me as a solid Ward/Boldin type. He's a good football player with enough tools to get the job done.

I get a little bit of a Marcus Robinson/Michael Jenkins/Roddy White vibe from Sidney Rice, although he also shares some common traits with Javon Walker. He has good size and is a good deep threat. He has a slightly higher ceiling than Bowe, but also seems like a bigger bust risk. I wonder if he's a bit soft, because he doesn't always seem to attack the football with ideal aggression.

Ginn is the wild card of the bunch. He's easily the fastest of the bunch and he has the best quickness and open field moves. It's just a little troubling that he wasn't able to dominate statistically in college and that a lot of OSU homers question if he was even the best WR on his team. I kind of get the feeling that he'll be a career #2 WR in the NFL. He's the kind of guy who can hit a monster play here and there and have some sporadic big weeks, but I have a tough time seeing a pro team build a passing offense around him.

My advice is to wait until draft day before making a decision. Situation will be a big factor. More importantly, it will also allow you to jockey for position in your rookie draft and get the best bang for your buck. If the gap between these guys is as small as it looks then the smartest move might be to trade down, take the WR5-6 and get an extra pick.

 

[King of the Jungle]

Ginn will certainly be a deep threat wherever he goes and could immediatly produce as a long range target ala Ashley Lelie in his career thus far... but I expect him to learn the game much quicker (and become much tougher) than Lelie and become sort of a Lee Evans/Javon Walker type.

Rice on the other hand... love his raw talent... almost like Calvin Johnson, except not as strong or mature.

Tough to gauge how fast he really is, but we will find out soon enough at the combine. He could be a poor man's Randy Moss or Chris Henry less 8 arrests.

So while they're obviously alot different in their abilities, their fantasy potential is probly about the same.

Assuming Rice is as fast as he appears (somwhere in the range of 4.5), then I'd say by his third year he should be a solid 10-TD threat in the range of 900-1200 yds.

Ginn will be a threat for many big plays early and by his 3rd year I expect around 17-18 yards per catch (could be 1000-1200) and closer to maxing out at 8 TDs depending on the Offense he is in.

Please explain how these two are similar.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Who knows? Write the names Ginn, Rice, Bowe, and Meachem on little scraps of paper. Throw the scraps into a hat. Shake the hat around. Pick a scrap. That's your winner.

That's the secret to my current rankings. :(

 

[aposulli]

Ginn will certainly be a deep threat wherever he goes and could immediatly produce as a long range target ala Ashley Lelie in his career thus far... but I expect him to learn the game much quicker (and become much tougher) than Lelie and become sort of a Lee Evans/Javon Walker type.

Rice on the other hand... love his raw talent... almost like Calvin Johnson, except not as strong or mature.

Tough to gauge how fast he really is, but we will find out soon enough at the combine. He could be a poor man's Randy Moss or Chris Henry less 8 arrests.

So while they're obviously alot different in their abilities, their fantasy potential is probly about the same.

Assuming Rice is as fast as he appears (somwhere in the range of 4.5), then I'd say by his third year he should be a solid 10-TD threat in the range of 900-1200 yds.

Ginn will be a threat for many big plays early and by his 3rd year I expect around 17-18 yards per catch (could be 1000-1200) and closer to maxing out at 8 TDs depending on the Offense he is in.

Please explain how these two are similar.

Great deep speed, great concentration to catch those deep passes, good hands, consistent?Now that you ask I realize Walker is about 3 inches taller than Evans, but that's not really a big part of either of their games. Ginn is about the same build as Evans FWIW.

 

[Mister CIA]

I have not actually watched Teddy Ginn play, but from all I have read I have to ask, is Raghib "Rocket" Ismail a fair comparison?

 

[Kirby]

Bowe

Meachem

Ginn

Rice

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Write the names Ginn, Rice, Bowe, and Meachem on little scraps of paper. Throw the scraps into a hat. Shake the hat around. Pick a scrap. That's your winner.

this is close to how I feel if you add Higgins to the list.

 

[-OZ-]

Ginn will certainly be a deep threat wherever he goes and could immediatly produce as a long range target ala Ashley Lelie in his career thus far... but I expect him to learn the game much quicker (and become much tougher) than Lelie and become sort of a Lee Evans/Javon Walker type.

Rice on the other hand... love his raw talent... almost like Calvin Johnson, except not as strong or mature.

Tough to gauge how fast he really is, but we will find out soon enough at the combine. He could be a poor man's Randy Moss or Chris Henry less 8 arrests.

So while they're obviously alot different in their abilities, their fantasy potential is probly about the same.

Assuming Rice is as fast as he appears (somwhere in the range of 4.5), then I'd say by his third year he should be a solid 10-TD threat in the range of 900-1200 yds.

Ginn will be a threat for many big plays early and by his 3rd year I expect around 17-18 yards per catch (could be 1000-1200) and closer to maxing out at 8 TDs depending on the Offense he is in.

Please explain how these two are similar.

Great deep speed, great concentration to catch those deep passes, good hands, consistent?Now that you ask I realize Walker is about 3 inches taller than Evans, but that's not really a big part of either of their games. Ginn is about the same build as Evans FWIW.

You're right on the JW/Evans comparison. Somewhat different players, but they share those attributes. However, as much as Ginn has impressed with his speed, I have not been impressed with his hands and consistancy. These seem to be his weakness, which leads me to think Troy Williamson may be the better comparison. The truth is probably somewhere inbetween, but I'm avoiding comparing him to Terry Glenn.

FWIW, if you don't have a top 4 pick (I like Jarrett a lot), there probably isn't much of a drop from 5-12 this year unless you put a lot of stock into their teams.

 

[Birdie048]

I am a Rice fan, being a Gamecock, but I would say his value would be greatly dependent on where he lands but for Ginn, he is more of a H Ward/A Boldin type production in his future.

Rice has made alot of difficult catches (primarly due to the poor QB play at South Carolina). He made them look decent more often then they put him in jeapordy for their bad throws. Rice has more Roy Williams (Det version) ability than Ginn, but Ginn has better hands.

I'd say it's too tough to tell until they land in late April!

 

[nygiants56]

when in doubt, I'd go with the OSU guy..

Chris Carter, Galloway, Glenn, Boston ( had a few good NFL years), Santonio Holmes. speed kills, and it seems OSU always had the fastest WR's. Ginn might be a project, yes. most of Spurrier's offenses are based on gimmicks, not too many Wr's that he coached went onto to enjoy NFL success and become pro bowl-type players.

 

[Demian]

I have a feeling Ted Ginn jr. is Peter Warrick redux.

 

[-OZ-]

when in doubt, I'd go with the OSU guy..Chris Carter, Galloway, Glenn, Boston ( had a few good NFL years), Santonio Holmes. speed kills, and it seems OSU always had the fastest WR's. Ginn might be a project, yes. most of Spurrier's offenses are based on gimmicks, not too many Wr's that he coached went onto to enjoy NFL success and become pro bowl-type players.

I don't like using the school = NFL talent comparisons, but it might make sense here.1st round WRs from OSU in the last 20 years:

1995	1	8	Joey Galloway	WR	Seattle1996	1	7	Terry Glenn	WR	New England1999	1	8	David Boston	WR	Arizona2004	1	29	 Michael Jenkins	WR	Atlanta2006	1	   25	 Holmes, Santonio	WR   Pittsburgh

Although Jenkins hasn't lived up to expectations (due to Vick?), and Boston is a steroid induced basket case, OSU has done alright here.

 

[Gandalf]

I have a feeling Ted Ginn jr. is Peter Warrick redux.

Why do you think that? Peter Warrick turned out to be pretty slow based on his combine 40-time. Are there other reasons or do you just mean Ginn's overhyped in the same way as Peter Warrick?

 

[cstu]

I have not seen alot of Rice, however I would lean towards Rice myself.

1. OSU fans, Please relax I think Teddy was a great COLLEGE receiver.

2. Ginn's quick speed and accleration is a plus, however college db's played about 10 to 15 yards off Teddy pretty much 90% of the time that's not gonna happen in the NFL.

3. 2005 Texas put big physical db and banged him totally took him out of the game. Penn State did the same with their talented db's not only did OSU get beat in both games Ginn was a non factor.



4. NFL db's will be real physical with Ginn and he does not have the body to take a beating IMO.

5. Teddy has improved in his routes, however he pretty much ran the streak and the wr screen/quick pass.

6. Teddy has freaking incredible speed and well they can teach the rest. I think he's a project at best and a complete bust at worse.

What about Harrison and Steve Smith? I think Ginn is comparable to these guys and he should be able do what they have done to beat the jam. I think he has a chance to be as good as them since he's at least as physically talented. I do agree with #5 in that it will be his route running that makes or breaks him.

 

[cstu]

I have a feeling Ted Ginn jr. is Peter Warrick redux.

Why do you think that? Peter Warrick turned out to be pretty slow based on his combine 40-time. Are there other reasons or do you just mean Ginn's overhyped in the same way as Peter Warrick?

Anyone that throws out a Warrick comparison doesn't know what they're talking about. I can understand comparing him to Rocket, but not Warrick.

 

[DAG]

This is a thread I'm very interested in, as I'll probably have to choose between these two players; I have the 1.05 pick in our rookie draft in a WR-heavy league. I tend to evaluate WRs based on ppr format consistency, and I'm leaning more toward Rice right now as a result. He seems to have the greater potential to deliver game to game points, with the additional upside to take over games. Every time I saw him play for USC I was impressed and thought he looked the part of an NFL WR1. While he had some individual games with low production (including some against better competition) he did put up two consistently good seasons in a row with a lot of 100-yard games. I know he has also said he got a lot stronger last year as compared to the year before, and he's young enough that his strength should increase significantly in the pros. All the natural ability in the world is there, as are the hands.

I know a lot less about Ginn and will be interested on following debates over whether he has the "bread and butter" WR skills to produce consistently.

 

[Ryan_21]

Ginn will certainly be a deep threat wherever he goes and could immediatly produce as a long range target ala Ashley Lelie in his career thus far... but I expect him to learn the game much quicker (and become much tougher) than Lelie and become sort of a Lee Evans/Javon Walker type.

Rice on the other hand... love his raw talent... almost like Calvin Johnson, except not as strong or mature.

Tough to gauge how fast he really is, but we will find out soon enough at the combine. He could be a poor man's Randy Moss or Chris Henry less 8 arrests.

So while they're obviously alot different in their abilities, their fantasy potential is probly about the same.

Assuming Rice is as fast as he appears (somwhere in the range of 4.5), then I'd say by his third year he should be a solid 10-TD threat in the range of 900-1200 yds.

Ginn will be a threat for many big plays early and by his 3rd year I expect around 17-18 yards per catch (could be 1000-1200) and closer to maxing out at 8 TDs depending on the Offense he is in.

Please explain how these two are similar.

Great deep speed, great concentration to catch those deep passes, good hands, consistent?Now that you ask I realize Walker is about 3 inches taller than Evans, but that's not really a big part of either of their games. Ginn is about the same build as Evans FWIW.

I dont think Ginn and Evans build are similar at all. Evans is shorter and thicker at 5'10" 200 lbs as where Ginn is taller and slinder at 6'0" 180 lbs.

 

[H.K.]

IIRC, Ginn's dad is a coach...that may go a long way in knowing how to put the off the field time on working toward understanding the game at the next level. Tiny difference, but it may make a big impact. Of course, it may have gotten Ginn to a peak level already.

FWIW, I think Rice is amazing, and he did play against better competition in college, so he may have more upside.

Extremely difficult comparison.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Pass on both. Rice is too thin and inconsistent at catching. Ginn is too...uh...everything. I owuldn't take either before the 2nd round.

 

[jurb26]

3. 2005 Texas put big physical db and banged him totally took him out of the game. Penn State did the same with their talented db's not only did OSU get beat in both games Ginn was a non factor.

You know Texas tried this technique in the 2006 game and got absolutly toasted by Ginn. He beat the jam so easily in that game that teams pretty much stopped doing it the rest of the season.

 

[jurb26]

3. 2005 Texas put big physical db and banged him totally took him out of the game. Penn State did the same with their talented db's not only did OSU get beat in both games Ginn was a non factor.

You know Texas tried this technique in the 2006 game and got absolutly toasted by Ginn. He beat the jam so easily in that game that teams pretty much stopped doing it the rest of the season.

I don't remember Texas jamming him much at the line in 2006. The touchdown at half was a blown coverage by the saftey if I remember according to Griffin he did not get over to double in time. I would have to watch the game again and I can't remember anyone jamming him this year except Penn State and again it was pretty successful. I'm just saying he's going to be dealing with that imo he's not ready for what he's going to be facing. I do think he will be successful 3-4 years from now, but he's no Holmes that's forsure in my book.

I'm sure you remember it if you think back.... his TD catch was a prime example of it. They tried to roll the dice, place a CB at the LOS and jam Ginn with only 1 S over the top. Ginn beat the jam with ease and raced down the sideline so fast the 1 deep S never woud have had a chance anyway. That was in the 1st half I believe and Texas pretty much learned their lesson.

 

[EBF]

Pass on both. Rice is too thin and inconsistent at catching. Ginn is too...uh...everything. I owuldn't take either before the 2nd round.

I think I'm leaning towards Meachem and Bowe over these two. Remember the 2001 draft?Rod Gardner went before Santana Moss. Freddie Mitchaell went before Reggie Wayne. Quincy Morgan went before Chad Johnson. Yikes.

 

[lod2005]

Meachem is the 2nd best receiver in the draft. Ginn is nothing and Rice is a super slow Randy Moss (no ability to go over the middle/strictly a fly pattern WR).

 

[-OZ-]

Remember the 2001 draft?Rod Gardner went before Santana Moss. Freddie Mitchaell went before Reggie Wayne. Quincy Morgan went before Chad Johnson. Yikes.

Couldn't we do this every year?Everyone over ColstonTroy Williamson over Mark ClaytonCourtney Roby over Chris HenryReggie Williams over Lee EvansCarlos Francis over Jericho CotcheryBethel Johnson over Anquan BoldinJabar Gaffney over Deion BranchRon Dixon over Lav. ColesDonald Driver in the 7th Kevin Dyson over Randy Moss