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Ted Ginn (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter cacksman
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Alluro
Footballguy
I pick 5th in my league's upcoming rookie draft. I plan on taking Ginn unless one of the Big 4 drops. I have wanted that guy for a while now. I think he will clearly be the fastest (in pads) player in the nfl. He'll be everything joey galloway was supposed to be and more. Plus, my league awards pts for return yds and I see him on par with hester from the very first time he steps on the NFL gridiron
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obxlegends
Footballguy
On par with Hester? That's a lot to swallow. We'll see.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Who is the "big" #4? ...Jamarcus??
From everyting I have read it is a 3 person rookie draft. That being obviouslly CJ, AD/P, Marshawn.
Jiggyonthehut
Footballguy
I love the Texas clips where you can see the ridiculous seperation he gets from that secondary that boasts Griffin and Ross- both who timed out in the mid 4.4's. I dont think a Hester/Ginn comparison will do much for anyone- what I've see shows that they excel in two different facets of returning.From what I see, Ginn looks like he excels in one-cut returns where he has the vision to anticipate the hole and will explode before a lane is even open. Hence he has a step on those retreating defenders and coupled with his speed, nobody is gonna catch him. He has some moves that he can use to elude defenders but is best when he is confident in where the hole will open and can burn those in pursuit. What really amazes me, however, is his ability to really accelerate within a step and his mantinence of that acceleration from start to finish. That seems to come before the hole even opens up, implying to me that he has good knowledge of his skillset and runs with almost blind confidence. Often times, that is his downfall as he will often run into teammates when that hole fails to open.Hester, however, has the ability to create and will create holes when his coverage fails him. His style of running really does play up to his skillset as well as he can lure the coverage to one direction and then explode in the opposite. He has amazing speed as well and once in a footrace, will not often lose. Nobody will question Hester's speed but often looks like he accelerates only after he is able to find a hole and dances (and jukes) until a running lane opens up. He is very effective in this sense and in terms of raw ability, there is no question he is a better returner. In comparison to ginn, however, I feel like Hester dances way too much in order to find a hole while Ginn often runs too hard for his coverage. Both styles have their own merit and I do believe both will be successful in the NFL. But Hester's skillset makes him more condusive to break one on every play while Ginn will have to rely on his blockers primarily and then his speed second. Ginn really has grown on me recently.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
All along, I've thought Ginn was a Rocket Ismail clone, but having just watched a little video, I think he is better than Rocket. He has a burst between yards 3 and 10 yards that is astounding.
As an owner of two mid-to-late first round dynasty picks, I'm rethinking my options.
As an owner of two mid-to-late first round dynasty picks, I'm rethinking my options.
Weiner Dog
Footballguy
I'm a Buckeye fan, but I cannot ignore the lack of successful sub-180lb WR's in the NFL. Peter Warrick gave it a whirl a few years back, but fell on his face (...and NO, I'm not comparing Ginn's game to Warrick's).
Iceman56751
Footballguy
Is Ginn comparable to Santana Moss or Sinorice Moss?
Can he catch the ball with consistency?
I am asking , cause I do not know.
I am intrigued, but I need more than kick return skills.
Can he catch the ball with consistency?
I am asking , cause I do not know.
I am intrigued, but I need more than kick return skills.
Rev
Footballguy
I live in Minnesota... and believe me, the fact that Williamson can't catch the ball is the main reason he gets open.Whether his hands are better or not, I think that Ginn is similar to Williamson in the way he moves. Maybe Ginn has a better ball sense and better hands, but he certainly has none of the Steve Smith-like jukes or a sense for creating yardage after the catch other than through straight-line speed.
kensat30
Footballguy
There's a whole lot of returns in that highlight video and not too much receiving. In fact, the only real routes I saw Ginn run in that video are the quick slant and the go route. Can one trick ponies succeed in today's NFL?
I've heard many times that someone is supposedly the "fastest" guy in the NFL, but it can't be true every time. Ginn's got speed, but does he have talent? I'd rather take a guy like Steve Smith(rookie) over him unless I wanted return yardage.
I've heard many times that someone is supposedly the "fastest" guy in the NFL, but it can't be true every time. Ginn's got speed, but does he have talent? I'd rather take a guy like Steve Smith(rookie) over him unless I wanted return yardage.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I'm an OSU fan and think that Gonzalez is actually going to be a better pro than Ginn. Ginn doesn't run very good routes and his hands are mediocre. He's nothing more than a return man and a guy that you can put in as your 3rd WR and send on a fly route. Gonzalez is a much more rounded receiver.
Family Matters
Footballguy
Something to keep in mind with Ginn is that he didn't become a WR until college. He was a start DB in college and OSU converted him. He basically has 2 years experience even though he did play as a freshman. So you've got this very talented fast guy with 2-3 years WR experience that has deomstrated a willingness to learn and develop. While he can be taught to run routes and read D's, he has the 1 thing that no one can teach and that's speed.
A team drafting him would have to think he's only going to get better 2-3 years in the league. And I doubt he's going to get slower. And while size is a bit of an issue, it's far less of factor since they started enforcing the 5 yard rule. There have been several small WR's that have doen well and many didn't have his speed.
A team drafting him would have to think he's only going to get better 2-3 years in the league. And I doubt he's going to get slower. And while size is a bit of an issue, it's far less of factor since they started enforcing the 5 yard rule. There have been several small WR's that have doen well and many didn't have his speed.
Irish
Footballguy
NFL corners will jam Ginn at LOS to take away deep routes. It will be up to Ginn to get stronger and evolve his game at the next level. His game as is will not be enough to warrant success in NFL. IMO his career meal ticket will be as a return guy and 4WR not what you want out of your 1st rd pick.Mister CIA said:
Weiner Dog
Footballguy
I thought WR's can no longer be jammed on the LOS??
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I pretty much agree although I do think the team that gets him will use him as a slot Wr in 3 wides to hopefully pick on the nickle back. They will also use motion to help free him from the jam. Ginn may have enough speed to force teams into man coverage on him using one of thier better corners, which would free up the teams other recievers on the outside somewhat.However until he learns to run some crisp routes that is all he is going to be able to be is a slot Wr. There are gaggles of cornerbacks that can run with him in the NFL. Defenders do a better job of tackling at the next level as well. Ginn is a incomplete Wr and not I a guy I see catching 50 balls in a season. So his upside is limited. He will be a good return man and so still valuable to a team but for fantasy I do not see Ginn ending up on any of my teams.
LMAOIm gonna go out on a limb and say NFL corners WONT jam him in fear of getting beat on the deep route.
Irish
Footballguy
Oh so you see DC strategy is to let him run wild in the secondary? I don't think so. Ginn is not Randy Moss fast nor nearly the physical specimen. CBs jam fast wr at LOS to knock them off their timing of their routes. Ginn has to get stronger to be able to fight off these jams that he will face at the next level.LMAOIm gonna go out on a limb and say NFL corners WONT jam him in fear of getting beat on the deep route.
cstu
Footballguy
You'd be wrong - the dumbest thing a CB could do is play off Ginn. A CB's biggest weapon vs. small WR's is jamming them at the line. Now if it turns out that he's able to beat the jam then CB's will back off but they'll try it until it doesn't work.LMAOIm gonna go out on a limb and say NFL corners WONT jam him in fear of getting beat on the deep route.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
4.28 speed is fast. But there have been many other Wrs this fast to enter the NFL. Those guys get jammed until they can prove they can beat it too. So what are you laughing about?LMAOIm gonna go out on a limb and say NFL corners WONT jam him in fear of getting beat on the deep route.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2007/ginn_tedETA- with the size and strength of corners in the NFL these days (who can also run 4.2 40s) Ginn is going to get put on his backside if the OC doesen't use some motion or somthing to help him out. And for a guy like me who likes defense, that will be kind of funny.
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Frenchy Fuqua
Footballguy
GroveDiesel said:
Agreed. Not a Buckeyes fan but I watch alot of their games. You hit the nail on the head. Ginn is an outstanding returner and a deep threat. Gonzalez is the more physical and polished WR who can run all the routes and isn't afraid of contact. They have similar speed. I think Gonzalez could be an exceptional NFL WR, with upside as a faster version of Hines Ward.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Quiet you. 
Yeah the best thing to do with a 178lb speed burner, is let him get a free release off the LOS.LMAOIm gonna go out on a limb and say NFL corners WONT jam him in fear of getting beat on the deep route.
*lol*Unless you have a mild clue about football, you should probably just lurk.Fine ill play your guys' game. You guys say Ginn cannot run consistent routes and is a "one trick pony", only being able run fades all game. Then why would a corner bump him to throw him off his route that he is not going to run? Wouldnt they play off and make it harder for Ginn to get behind them on a streak?
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Pretty hard to get behind the defense when you are eating turf sandwich.
Contact is allowed within 5 yards not beyond it. Why let the guy get started?
Contact is allowed within 5 yards not beyond it. Why let the guy get started?
You are right, im sure Ginn will not be able to get beyond 5 yards of the LOS in the NFL.
a_rackowski
Footballguy
If getting off the LOS is such a problem, then they will just put him in motion. Thats not a fair critique.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I did not say he wouldn't get beyond 5 yards. Just explaining how things work. If the defensive back holds Ginn at the line for even one to 2 seconds the defense is getting close to the Qb by then and Ginn still has not gotten out into his route and the Qb is looking for someone who has by then.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
7 players must set on the line of scrimage. So to send Ginn in motion means he will be relegated to slot Wr and therefore not be used in 2 Wr sets if he cannot consistently beat the jam.In limited capacity such as this I do not see Ginn getting a normal ammount of target opportunities. That will limit his catches.I do see him possibly being used on reverses Wr screens and possibly even pitches if the OC is creative with him. I would like to see his 3 cone numbers but he has been hurt. I don't know if he has the agility to weave through traffic and make people miss. College tackling (if you call it that) is far inferior to tackling at the pro level.Ginn is being compared to Dante Hall. I just do not see him being more than a gadget player, special teamer and 3rd Wr.JMO. Maybe I am wrong. Wouldn't be the 1st time.
cstu
Footballguy
The key for Gonzalez (along with a few other WR's in this draft) is him going to the right situation as it could make or break him. Chances are good that Ginn will bust as a WR (expectations are high for him) but he could develop into a true #1 - something that Gonzalez isn't likely to do. Gonzalez is the safe, value pick and Ginn is high risk/high reward. Personally, I'll have a hard time calling Ginn's name on draft day.GroveDiesel said:
cstu
Footballguy
Are you going to put him in motion on every play? I don't think that's realistic and a starting WR in the NFL must be able to beat the jam.
a_rackowski
Footballguy
No not every play. But Ginns value is going to come as bio said - as somewhat of a gadget player and a 3rd WR. I am not suggesting he will be a 80 catch a season guy. I am suggesting that he could have a Deion Sanders like impact on the league though. He wont be that shutdown corner but teams are going to do all they can to deny him the ball. He would be one of the most feared special teams players in the league as soon as he put the pads on. Lets not forget part of his value might be as a dime defensive back. If you can put the ball in his hands something positive is going to happen. So by drafting Ginn you can kill 4 birds with one stone - Punt Returner, Kick Returner, 3rd WR, and 6th DB.
I dont think its fair to compare him to Dante Hall, who has never shown himself on any level to be a special WR. Ginn will be able to help the team in other areas besides special teams.
I dont think its fair to compare him to Dante Hall, who has never shown himself on any level to be a special WR. Ginn will be able to help the team in other areas besides special teams.
jurb26
Footballguy
This is not true at all. In any 2 WR set Ginn could be motioned. Hell even if they wanted to go with just a 1 WR set he could. Unless you have a Jr. High coach, there are several other ways than using 3 WR sets to get a WR in motion. If Ginn proves to be a dangerous enough option, his team, coach and OC would be silly to not use him to his ability. This is all if he can not beat the press of course. Why don't we ask the Texas DBs and Ross (the most physicall CB in the draft at the LOS) how successfull they were at jamming Ginn. IIRC, after the Texas game there wasn't a single team in college with the guts to press Ginn. Unless they had a S rolled over the top.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Quiet you.
You are correct, I personally don't like Ginn's prospects as a #1 or #2 option in a passing game. As a slot WR or on a team like KC, NYG, San Diego, etc. where the TE is #1 or #2, Ginn could excel. Ginn won't last to San Diego, but that's the team I'd see as ideal for him. If he slipped to Tenessee, that could work well, but the most likely ideal team is San Fran, where I think he could be very successful.
el centro
Footballguy
Still don't know that I'd take him very high in the rookie draft. I think he's going to be a stellar return-man, just not so-sure he'll end up as a steller WR. Listening to NFLDraftguys.com's podcast with Russ Lande - TSN's draft guru... he was talking about Ginn is a low-risk draft pick in that Ginn adds immediate reward in the return game, and although he's still raw as a WR - could potentially become dangerous in that avenue. Hugh stated that if he wasn't successful at WR in the first 2 seasons in the NFL they could move him back to DB.
Watching the highlight reel - the run against Ok. State is just sick!
Watching the highlight reel - the run against Ok. State is just sick!
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
Yes they can send him in motion on other than 3 Wr sets but he will still have to set on the LOS before the snap unless they have 2 other Wrs on the outside set on the LOS allready.
cstu
Footballguy
I'll be thrilled if he lasted to SD, but it's not going to happen with his return skills. FF has made people forgot about special teams but it's a huge part of the game and teams know it - especially after what happened with Hester.Quiet you.
You are correct, I personally don't like Ginn's prospects as a #1 or #2 option in a passing game. As a slot WR or on a team like KC, NYG, San Diego, etc. where the TE is #1 or #2, Ginn could excel. Ginn won't last to San Diego, but that's the team I'd see as ideal for him. If he slipped to Tenessee, that could work well, but the most likely ideal team is San Fran, where I think he could be very successful.
Rev
Footballguy
Bad comparison, IMO. While Ginn may be used like Hall, I see Ginn having nowhere near the moves and creative running style that Hall has. Ginn just runs fast. Hall jukes people out of their jockstraps. Big difference.
Mungo Burrows
Footballguy
The following is a fairly standard 2 WR formation...7 On the Line - have to be set:
Split end - Tackle - Guard - Center - Guard - Tackle - TIGHT END
4 Behind the line - all can be moving at the snap (obviously not at the same time):
Quarterback - Running Back - Fullback - FLANKER
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FavreCo
Footballguy
You may want to listen to this guy. He's correct. Especially the bold part. say hello to Ted Williamson.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I stand corrected. I was confusing the tackle eligable rules with thinking teams have to have a player on LOS on both sides of the field. Guess they don't and yes I have seen that plenty of times before when teams use floods and bunches. That is another thing teams can do with Ginn is put him behind another reciever to take the jam.In any case I am just not sold on him being a every down player and think he will be used more situationaly. I do not see his speed as being so exceptional when there are droves of players in the NFL who can run with him. It takes a lot more than speed to be a consistent starter much less a star in the league like some seem to think he will be. Some of the comments here seem to be saying that Ginn will be able to just blow by starting cornerbacks like he did in college.The following is a fairly standard 2 WR formation...
7 On the Line - have to be set:
Split end - Tackle - Guard - Center - Guard - Tackle - TIGHT END
4 Behind the line - all can be moving at the snap (obviously not at the same time):
Quarterback - Running Back - Fullback - FLANKER
I am not saying Ginn cannot be a starter or even a star in the NFL if he works hard and rounds out his game to become a complete player either. Just that I do not see evidence of him having a complete game right now. He looks like a special teamer and a gadgit reciever right now with some weaknesses that need to be fixed if they can be. The significant ones being his ability to beat the jam and how well he catches the ball especialy when pressured by coverage. Also he is not known for running good routes to help him get seperation. There is also some unknowns due to him not participating in the 3 cone drill that gives an idea of a players agility. This is significant as far as his ability to run good routes and get seperation from defenders when speed is not enough. As others have noted this may be a weakness of his as well.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I have combined numbers from combine and pro days and Ginn did not participate in either.I have seen listed 40 times of 4.28 and 4.3 on different sources such as nfl.com but nothing on the other measurables. If someone has this information I would be very interested in it as well.
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