Renegades of Funk
Footballguy
Anyone have any info on Detroits plans with their LB's. If Lehman ends up on the weakside or middle he should have a great year, but if he somehow gets stuck at SLB he will have a hard time making an IDP impact.
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Teddy Lehman (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Renegades of Funk
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-OZ-
Footballguy
Everything I have read has Bailey playing the SLB, a position he is well suited for.Davis or Lewis should be the WLB, and Holmes the MLB.
This leaves Lehman as a big question mark, if Holmes or BB is injured, he plays that position, if not, he should take over for Holmes at some point, but it might not be week 1.
Long term, Lehman is the MLB and should do very well.
pretender
Footballguy
Some tidbits I have read:Lions | Holmes Battling for MLB SpotFri, 24 Jun 2005 10:23:13 -0700FOXSports.com reports Detroit Lions LB Earl Holmes is battling LB Teddy Lehman for the middle linebacker position. Holmes is the team's best run stopper on the interior and has been strong in stopping first- and second-down running plays. However, Holmes isn't strong in one-on-one coverage skills against running backs, which puts his starting role in jeopardy. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Lions | Lehman May Play Middle LinebackerTue, 31 May 2005 05:59:31 -0700Steve Pate, of The Daily Oakland Press, reports Detroit Lions LB Teddy Lehman may make the switch to middle linebacker, if LB Boss Bailey is 100 percent ready to take over at strongside linebacker and if LBs James Davis and Alex Lewis can handle weakside linebacker. If moved, Lehman would challenge LB Earl Holmes to be the starting middle linebacker. When drafted in 2004, Lehman was called the "middle linebacker of the future." The question for the Lions is does that future start in 2005
inbreeder
Footballguy
I may have misread your followup post just above, but this correction ought to made more clearly. Bailey is in no way well suited for the SLB position. At the risk of regurgitating the outlook section of his FBG player page, Bailey was a safety in college and is first and foremost a speedy, evasive player with solid coverage skills. That is the textbook definition of a WLB.The Lions continue to feel his size and athleticism makes him the best option at SLB on their roster. Unfortunately for Bailey owners, it's hard to disagree. Donte' Curry and James Davis are even worse options. Lehman at MLB, Bailey at WLB, and, say, Anthony Simmons at SLB might make an awful nice picture.
Again, OZ, if I misread your second post, my apologies. If I haven't, I'd be curious to know why you feel Bailey would make a suitable SLB.
-OZ-
Footballguy
SLB usually covers the TE. WLB generally attacks the QB. Now, this is an oversimplification of their roles, but a Safety with cover skills is going to make a better SLB usually than a WLB. Now, if the play calls for Bailey to attack, then yes, he'd be better at WLB. But, his cover skills would be underutilized.I realize there is debate among the fans / "experts" as to whether the Lions staff is using him properly, but I'll defer to the guys who know best - the LIONS STAFF.
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I have to disagree a little here. I think the preseason will tell us more, but after watching them last year, Lehman was on the field every down. Mainly because of injuries but also becuase he could play any position that was needed. My understanding is that he will do the same this year and it depends on a couple of different issues revolving around Bailey and Holmes. Lehman currently will play the WLB based on Holmes as the MLB and Bailey as SLB. Lehman was moved over to SLB last year only because of Bailey's injury. I don't think Davis or Lewis will have an impact on Lehman seeing the field. Personally, I think the Offense will be better and more teams will throw the ball more against the lions. This then favors Lehman to take over the middle from Holmes. This then would open up the WLB. This is intersting because Bailey could be moved there and then SLB would be up for grabs. Interesting situation for this year, but next year I see Lehman as the MLB and Bailey the WLB. Thats my opinion, I just don't see them sitting Lehman this year.
-OZ-
Footballguy
I think you're right, my first post was simply reiterating what has been said publicly. FWIW, Bailey would make a good WLB, I'm not denying that, but he also makes a good SLB, which is more needed right now. IF the Lions could sign Anthony Simmons and start Simmons, Lehman and Bailey, that would be an impressive group.
inbreeder
Footballguy
I understand that the SLB covers the TE, and the WLB "generally" often attacks the QB. Many current NFL schemes have a safety cover the TE, and the SLB rush the passer, however, so it isn't that simple. Plenty of WLB in the current NFL (and particularly in the screen happy NFC North) are required to have the ability to cover backside screens. I'm not absolutely certain of this, but I'd venture a guess that more WLBs are covering screens than SLBs are covering TE patterns right now, but again that's purely a guess.The primary responsibility of the SLB in a 4-3 scheme is to take on blockers (OT, pulling OG, TE) at the point of attack and force the play. One of the primary responsibilities of the WLB is to close down the backside and make tackles as he's often not accounted for in the blocking scheme. Pass responsibilities are important, but secondary. So, while it may be technically correct to have your SLB have "better" coverage skills than your WLB, in today's NFL, I think that's secondary.
Now, if the play calls for Bailey to attack, then yes, he'd be better at WLB. But, his cover skills would be underutilized.
I realize there is debate among the fans / "experts" as to whether the Lions staff is using him properly, but I'll defer to the guys who know best - the LIONS STAFF.
Bailey's skill set (speed, fluidity, preference to elude rather than attack a blocker, and adequate cover skills) fits better in the WLB position than SLB in my mind. I'll grant that I was a little strong in saying that Bailey was "absolutely not" suited to the SLB, but I still feel strongly that he's a better WLB prospect than SLB. With regard to the Lions staff knowing more than me, well, of course that's true. If you look again at my original post, I said that Bailey was the best SLB option on the roster, to the disappointment of Bailey owners.
I don't think I'm far off base here. Norton, Magaw - I'm interested in some other comments.
Rozelle
Moderator
Baily's size is another thing that makes him better suited for the will.I understand that the SLB covers the TE, and the WLB "generally" often attacks the QB. Many current NFL schemes have a safety cover the TE, and the SLB rush the passer, however, so it isn't that simple. Plenty of WLB in the current NFL (and particularly in the screen happy NFC North) are required to have the ability to cover backside screens. I'm not absolutely certain of this, but I'd venture a guess that more WLBs are covering screens than SLBs are covering TE patterns right now, but again that's purely a guess.The primary responsibility of the SLB in a 4-3 scheme is to take on blockers (OT, pulling OG, TE) at the point of attack and force the play. One of the primary responsibilities of the WLB is to close down the backside and make tackles as he's often not accounted for in the blocking scheme. Pass responsibilities are important, but secondary. So, while it may be technically correct to have your SLB have "better" coverage skills than your WLB, in today's NFL, I think that's secondary.
Now, if the play calls for Bailey to attack, then yes, he'd be better at WLB. But, his cover skills would be underutilized.
I realize there is debate among the fans / "experts" as to whether the Lions staff is using him properly, but I'll defer to the guys who know best - the LIONS STAFF.
Bailey's skill set (speed, fluidity, preference to elude rather than attack a blocker, and adequate cover skills) fits better in the WLB position than SLB in my mind. I'll grant that I was a little strong in saying that Bailey was "absolutely not" suited to the SLB, but I still feel strongly that he's a better WLB prospect than SLB. With regard to the Lions staff knowing more than me, well, of course that's true. If you look again at my original post, I said that Bailey was the best SLB option on the roster, to the disappointment of Bailey owners.
I don't think I'm far off base here. Norton, Magaw - I'm interested in some other comments.
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Actually Inbreeder pretty much hit the nail on the head here. The strong side linebacker's primary responsibilities are to blow up blockers on running plays and/or force the play inside. While its true that he will be responsible for the TE in coverage once in a while, in most instances his coverage responsibilities will be a zone assignment where he is responsible for the flat or the short outside third. Cover skills are not as important a factor as physical toughness and the ability to take on the TE, FB or even a pulling guard. In fact with only a few exceptions (KC, DET, ARI, SEA, come to mind from last year) most teams pull their SLB in passing situations because he is generally the weakest in coverage. When teams go to a nickel package there is no strong side linebacker per say. You will often see teams break in their young LBs at the strong side position becaues its a more physically than mentally demanding position thus is easier for the young guys to pick up quickly. As for Bailey being out of position, I don't believe he would be particularly well suited for the SLB in most schemes and I personally believe his talents are being wasted at the position in Detroit. He's a speed and finnesse player who is more effective when avoiding contact rather than forcing it. He may be the Lions best option at the moment but that's only because they don't have a true SLB on the roster. They will be much better as a unit when/if they get one and move Bailey to WLB where he belongs. This situation is much like the one in Washington where LaVar Arrington has finally been moved to WLB. If he can stay healthy he'll be an animal. On the Lehman question, The way I see it he's their best linebacker and I believe he will be on the field every down right from the opening gun. If everyone is healthy, he'll start in the middle, which is where they drafted him to play, and should be a top 20 LB with potential to be top 10. Best of luck to everyone this year,Reb
-OZ-
Footballguy
I guess I'm looking more at the need to keep the TE in check than typical. Living in the AFC West will do that to a fan. Granted, the CB or S can cover the TE, but I would prefer the ability to have the SLB do that as well. Let me just make sure what you're all saying here, that the SLB has to be able to take on blocks to be effective. Odd that the Chiefs are putting Derrick Johnson at SLB given that is his weakness. Granted, the Chiefs haven't been strong defensively, but Gunther is smarter than to put his young stud in a position to fail. Of course, why take on a block when you can go around it? Boss has that ability.In an ideal world, Bailey would probably be an excellent WLB while just a good SLB, but the fact that the Lions have not brought in a SLB tells me they aren't worried. Neither am I. I actually put Lehman as a possible top 5 in Detroit once he locks up the MLB spot, probable top 20.
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inbreeder
Footballguy
I agree that your ideal SLB has the ability to cover the TE running down the hashmarks to give the DC the flexibility of personnel to do many different things on passing downs. In today's NFL, the receiving TE has become so ridiculously athletic (Gonzo, Gates, Winslow, Heap) that you'll need a freak like Levon Kirkland to handle their size and speed. So, you'll see teams go after that CB/safety hybrid like the Bengals have done - Marvin drafted Madieu Williams specifically to address the Heap/Winslow question.Believe me, I'm not saying I know more than an NFL DC. As far as not being worried about the Detroit defense because the Detroit coaching staff isn't worried, well, that defense has been in the bottom third of the league since that particular coaching staff has been in place, and only marginally improved since the Mornhinweg era. And **** Jauron is a pretty good defensive mind. Suggests to me that they don't have the personnel.
Let me just make sure what you're all saying here, that the SLB has to be able to take on blocks to be effective. Odd that the Chiefs are putting Derrick Johnson at SLB given that is his weakness. Granted, the Chiefs haven't been strong defensively, but Gunther is smarter than to put his young stud in a position to fail. Of course, why take on a block when you can go around it? Boss has that ability.
In an ideal world, Bailey would probably be an excellent WLB while just a good SLB, but the fact that the Lions have not brought in a SLB tells me they aren't worried. Neither am I.
I actually put Lehman as a possible top 5 in Detroit once he locks up the MLB spot, probable top 20.
With regard to Derrick Johnson, Gunther is a pretty good defensive mind as well (understatement), but I think you'll see DJ struggle at the SLB position. Again, I think it's a question of personnel. Kendrell Bell will clearly not hold up at SLB, and Gunther has put A LOT of time into Kawika Mitchell over the past 6 months. They were shocked that DJ fell to them, and felt obligated to make the pick. I think you'll see an Urlacher-like situation at some point this season or next. DJ starts at SLB, the Chiefs realize their better off with a worse option at SLB and Bell in the middle. Or, maybe more likely, Bell is injured. Either way, DJ moves to the weak side and goes nuts on the NFC West.
Again, I'll defer to those who know better than I, but I've also read that rookie LBs are often put in the SLB position because the responsibilites are more strict than those of the other two positions. The SLB has a job to do, the other position are a bit more read-react.
And I'm with you on Lehman. He'll be very, very good.
-OZ-
Footballguy
HIJACK alert: This is what pisses me off about the Chiefs right now. They are going after Ty Law, a broken, formerly elite CB because Warfield is out 4 games. I don't blame them really, BUT - Go after ANTHONY SIMMONS. Put Bell in the freakin' middle, he'll do fine there, better than kawika for sure, Simmons as the SLB and DJ on the weak side. That would be a GREAT LB group. The line is getting better, the secondary is weak, but better. Teams would not be able to run on that group, and they'd pressure the QB, force bad throws, which leads to INTs (Espcially with Collins and Plummer as two rivals).
Weiner Dog
Footballguy
Lehman owners better hope Boss gets healthy and stays healthy...
Lions | Lehman and Bailey Sharing Reps
Sat, 30 Jul 2005 22:19:45 -0700
Tom Kowalski, of mlive.com, reports Detroit Lions LBs Teddy Lehman and Boss Bailey are sharing reps with the starting defense at strongside linebacker. Bailey is expected to be the starter, but Lehman will see some playing time. Lehman is also scheduled to get some playing time at middle linebacker, starting with practice Sunday, July 31.
Lions | Lehman and Bailey Sharing Reps
Sat, 30 Jul 2005 22:19:45 -0700
Tom Kowalski, of mlive.com, reports Detroit Lions LBs Teddy Lehman and Boss Bailey are sharing reps with the starting defense at strongside linebacker. Bailey is expected to be the starter, but Lehman will see some playing time. Lehman is also scheduled to get some playing time at middle linebacker, starting with practice Sunday, July 31.
