Terrance West vs Isaiah Crowell (1 Viewer)

[Chaka]

So if Tate is the lead back all year then how can the Browns move on from him after the season?

It's a team option, they have all the control, but they need to know who their guys are if they aren't going to exercise it. Only way to find out is by giving them touches. He isn't going to start the year leaning on the kids more, so if he is going to lean on them more it will be later.

Lead backs only get 60-70% of a teams RB touches, there will be plenty of game film to evaluate the other guys.

 

[MAC_32]

So if Tate is the lead back all year then how can the Browns move on from him after the season?

It's a team option, they have all the control, but they need to know who their guys are if they aren't going to exercise it. Only way to find out is by giving them touches. He isn't going to start the year leaning on the kids more, so if he is going to lean on them more it will be later.

Lead backs only get 60-70% of a teams RB touches, there will be plenty of game film to evaluate the other guys.

I haven't the slightest clue if this is how anyone on the Browns think, but I think you have to see how a guy weathers the pounding before you can really evaluate how they will handle feature work. By doing otherwise you're playing with funny numbers, guys with 7-10 touches per game and 5-6 yards per touch. Yeah, the yards per touch are great, but what happens when you double that workload? over 3-5 months? Not saying any of this will happen, but I think dismissing it is crazy.

That said, I'll be closely following their adp's over the next few weeks. Ben Tate for a 5 then Terrance West for a 9 or 10 may be a very sound strategy. I do not consider handcuff's before that spot, but once the rest of the lineup is filled? and if Tate is my #2 back? Yeah, he makes sense there.

 

[Chaka]

So if Tate is the lead back all year then how can the Browns move on from him after the season?

It's a team option, they have all the control, but they need to know who their guys are if they aren't going to exercise it. Only way to find out is by giving them touches. He isn't going to start the year leaning on the kids more, so if he is going to lean on them more it will be later.

Lead backs only get 60-70% of a teams RB touches, there will be plenty of game film to evaluate the other guys.

I haven't the slightest clue if this is how anyone on the Browns think, but I think you have to see how a guy weathers the pounding before you can really evaluate how they will handle feature work. By doing otherwise you're playing with funny numbers, guys with 7-10 touches per game and 5-6 yards per touch. Yeah, the yards per touch are great, but what happens when you double that workload? over 3-5 months? Not saying any of this will happen, but I think dismissing it is crazy.

That said, I'll be closely following their adp's over the next few weeks. Ben Tate for a 5 then Terrance West for a 9 or 10 may be a very sound strategy. I do not consider handcuff's before that spot, but once the rest of the lineup is filled? and if Tate is my #2 back? Yeah, he makes sense there.

Your logic seems wonky. If Tate is producing how man touches per game do you see them giving to any other back?

And I have no problem drafting a handcuff, I went early on Ben Tate last year. Then again that didn't work out so well for me.

 

[MAC_32]

Depends how well they are doing.

 

[Chaka]

Depends how well they are doing.

That isn't much of an affirmative response.

I see around 400-450 carries for Cleveland with Tate getting about 55% of them and catching maybe 20 balls or so. That puts him at around 240-270 total touches on the season.

Between the 180-230 remaining carries I am guessing Manziel will easily account for 50 of those (possibly more) leaving 130-180 carries to be divided up among West, Crowell and let's not write off Dion Lewis just yet either. If he demonstrates he can handle the blitz West probably gets first crack at the backup job as I see it right now and if things break right for him he could finish with 100 carries or so.

ETA: Barring major injuries of course.

 

[MAC_32]

I'm not going to give an affirmative response when I don't think there is one. It depends on how the young guys play. If they play well enough to earn more touches I think they will get them. If they don't then Tate will be a horse as long as he is productiver, he has shown in the past that he may or may not be durable. Will his production dip with the increased workload?

There is a reason he is in the cloud of meh running backs muddying up the middle of drafts. His situation is very hazy and depends on a lot of factors.

 

[Chaka]

Then I guess I must be misinterpreting what appears to be your confidence that West will assume a much larger portion of the carries later in the season so the Browns can evaluate him for 2015.

 

[MAC_32]

Then I guess I must be misinterpreting what appears to be your confidence that West will assume a much larger portion of the carries later in the season so the Browns can evaluate him for 2015.

yep, front office's wants and reality are often not the same thing.I think this what they want, doesn't mean much come October if Tate is balling and West is lost.

 

[Bronco Billy]

So if Tate is the lead back all year then how can the Browns move on from him after the season?

You seem to have discovered the weakness in your argument all by yourself. What happens if the Browns find out that Tate is a decent RB1? Well, then the two parties mutually agree to extend his contract - beneficial to both sides - and continue with Tate as their RB1 with much better depth at the position.

That's not my speculation, but certainly within the realm of reasonable possibilities.

.

 

[MAC_32]

So if Tate is the lead back all year then how can the Browns move on from him after the season?

You seem to have discovered the weakness in your argument all by yourself. What happens if the Browns find out that Tate is a decent RB1? Well, then the two parties mutually agree to extend his contract - beneficial to both sides - and continue with Tate as their RB1 with much better depth at the position.

That's not my speculation, but certainly within the realm of reasonable possibilities.

.

with all of the other expiring contracts coming up I can't see him being in the top five in priority .

 

[Bronco Billy]

So if Tate is the lead back all year then how can the Browns move on from him after the season?

You seem to have discovered the weakness in your argument all by yourself. What happens if the Browns find out that Tate is a decent RB1? Well, then the two parties mutually agree to extend his contract - beneficial to both sides - and continue with Tate as their RB1 with much better depth at the position.

That's not my speculation, but certainly within the realm of reasonable possibilities.

.

with all of the other expiring contracts coming up I can't see him being in the top five in priority .

He'd likely be relatively cheap under those circumstances. A decent signing bonus attached to a multiple year contract, reducing the cap hit. It's a valid conjecture that you seem to reject out of hand.

 

[Chaka]

So if Tate is the lead back all year then how can the Browns move on from him after the season?

You seem to have discovered the weakness in your argument all by yourself.What happens if the Browns find out that Tate is a decent RB1? Well, then the two parties mutually agree to extend his contract - beneficial to both sides - and continue with Tate as their RB1 with much better depth at the position.

That's not my speculation, but certainly within the realm of reasonable possibilities.

.

with all of the other expiring contracts coming up I can't see him being in the top five in priority .

He'd likely be relatively cheap under those circumstances. A decent signing bonus attached to a multiple year contract, reducing the cap hit. It's a valid conjecture that you seem to reject out of hand.

Agreed. Why do you think they signed the guy Mac? With the hope of drafting his replacement and kicking him to the curb after one season? The way you are talking it's like you think the Browns wish they hadn't bothered picking up a 25 year old running back with a career 4.7 ypc for a reasonable price.

 

[MAC_32]

So if Tate is the lead back all year then how can the Browns move on from him after the season?

You seem to have discovered the weakness in your argument all by yourself.What happens if the Browns find out that Tate is a decent RB1? Well, then the two parties mutually agree to extend his contract - beneficial to both sides - and continue with Tate as their RB1 with much better depth at the position.

That's not my speculation, but certainly within the realm of reasonable possibilities.

.

with all of the other expiring contracts coming up I can't see him being in the top five in priority .

He'd likely be relatively cheap under those circumstances. A decent signing bonus attached to a multiple year contract, reducing the cap hit. It's a valid conjecture that you seem to reject out of hand.

Agreed. Why do you think they signed the guy Mac? With the hope of drafting his replacement and kicking him to the curb after one season? The way you are talking it's like you think the Browns wish they hadn't bothered picking up a 25 year old running back with a career 4.7 ypc for a reasonable price.

the way they structured his contract they want an out.Then they traded into day two to draft a back.

And brought in an eye brow raiser in Crowell.

With Lewis still here.

The Browns have cap space to work with the next year or two, it's a reason why they targeted Tate, especially after he was ignored in wave one of free agency. They could get him relatively cheap. I don't think it means they are committed to him at all though. It's a one year prove it deal with younger, cheaper competition and a team controlled option for a second year.

 

[Catbird]

The Browns have cap space to work with the next year or two, it's a reason why they targeted Tate, especially after he was ignored in wave one of free agency. They could get him relatively cheap. I don't think it means they are committed to him at all though. It's a one year prove it deal with younger, cheaper competition and a team controlled option for a second year.

Throw in that Tate is the experienced back who has shown solid NFL ability, legit concern over his injury history and the good opportunity they'll have to see what each of these guys offers and build on the best option next year and I think you just about have it.

 

[RaiderBones]

Dane Brugler ‏@dpbrugler 2h
#TeamWest RT @evansilva Pettine on #Browns RBs: "The best competition may be Ben Tate & our guy Terrance West from Towson who I really like"

 

[Chaka]

One thing that does stand out in favor of the rookie RBs is that Kyle Shanahan is the OC and Shanahans seem to have little aversion to throwing rookie RBs into the fire.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

A pretty good breakdown of Browns OC Kyle Shanahan's running attack and how it could be one of the top rushing attacks in the nFL this season was brought up on this week's Sigmond Bloom fantasy football podcast 'On the Couch'.

Go to around the 45 minute mark for a really good breakdown of how Kyle Shanahan's rushing attack works and why the Browns backfield could be one of the best fantasy football investmetns in the league this year.

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Jul 22 2014
2014 Volume#81a - On The Couch 7.22.2014 (#2150)
In this Episode: Sigmund Bloom and Lance Zierlein (The Sideline View) discuss the most compelling fantasy storylines in AFC training camps. Topics Include: Why the Cleveland and Baltimore running games could bounce back in a big way, Whether to take a chance on Trent Richardson this year, Whether pass blocking will keep Terrance West off of the field, How much to care about Jamaal Charles losing starters on the offensive line, plus more!

 

[MattFancy]

One thing that does stand out in favor of the rookie RBs is that Kyle Shanahan is the OC and Shanahans seem to have little aversion to throwing rookie RBs into the fire.

Exactly. Alfred Morris came out of no where in 2012 and if it wasn't for RG3's amazing rookie year, Morris could have won the ROY that year. If there's one thing Kyle knows how to do, it's run the football. He had success in both Houston and Washington with it. Both times with little known RBs.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Since Crowell has fallen out of the conversation and the media has shifted focus to Tate and T-West I think its time to reserect Matt Waldman's article about RB Isaiah Crowell that he wrote last December where he said he was the best RB in terms of talent to enter the 2014 NFL draft.

Just some choice bits in case anyone missed this and why some are high on Crowell.

http://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2013/12/30/isaiah-crowell/

Isaiah CrowellBy Matt Waldman December 30, 2013
... If I based my evaluation of Crowell’s NFL potential solely on football skill, he is easily the best running back in this 2014 NFL Draft class. But talent isn’t everything.

When Isaiah Crowell arrived a Georgia as a freshman, there was talk that the Columbus Georgia native had the kind of talent that folks in Athens Georgia hadn’t seen since Herschel Walker. Much of this hype was on the national level among the more photo-friendly, word-conservative publications covering college football. Walker is the standard-bearer for Georgia running backs and Crowell was a worthy challenger to the crown. A 5-star recruit...

... In less than a year on campus, he failed a drug test and was charged with two felony counts of illegal possession of a firearm. The charges were later dismissed because there wasn’t sufficient proof that the guns were Crowell’s, but Georgia had seen enough. By spring, Crowell’s career as a Bulldog was over.

Two years into his enrollment at Alabama State, Crowell has no off-field issues, attends class, and has often dazzled on the field. A five-star recruit at the running back position should be good enough to transcend the caliber of football around him.

But questions about Crowell’s commitment to a team environment linger...

... Tim Gayle of the Montgomery Advertiser had a revealing interview with Hornets’ head coach Reggie Barlow about Crowell’s tenure with the Alabama State football team. It includes discussion about Crowell removing himself from games after suffering injuries some consider minor and not returning to the field for the rest of those games.

... Crowell’s past transgressions are a huge red flag about the running back’s willingness to be a teammate and not just a star. In this sense, Crowell has generated a potential lose-lose situation when it comes to the draft.

He has to be in peak physical condition to perform like a star if he wants to even earn a shot with an NFL team beyond a spring tryout....

... into today’s NFL that maturation is a process. As long as the overall trend continues pointing upward, the NFL will invest in talent in need of maturation.

I’m the first to tell you that NFL-caliber talents at running back are a dime a dozen, but there’s a difference between an NFL talent and an NFL feature back. Crowell has feature back talent ...

... Crowell has the physical skill and conceptual know-how to develop into productive feature back in the NFL. He’s the best pure runner in this class. In fact, I think his combination of vision, balance, and burst would have made him a better prospect than any back in the 2013 class. But Crowell isn’t wrapping up his junior year at Georgia with a spotless off-field record. He’s about to learn one way or the other that talent only gets you so far in this world.

I hope this time he’s had enough hard lessons to choose the easier ones.

Waldman then breaks down Crowell's game in classic scouting fashion so head to the link to see why Matt feels Isaiah Crowell has NFL feature running back talent.

It should be pointed out that Crowell didn't participate in OTAs due to an injury and one of the knocks on him was he took himself out of games but he's healthy and he'll get his chance to show what he can do.

 

[eNdblu]

Ian Rapoport @RapSheet

#Browns rookie RB Terrence West will start training camp on the non-football injury list, source says.

Dane Brugler @dpbrugler
As much as I like #Browns RB Terrance West, some teams did take him off their draft boards due to durability questions. Worth noting

 

[Bob Magaw]

I don't know about 2012, but West had like 2,600 yards last year, so I don't think he missed too much action.

 

[RoosterScott]

Too much Kool Aid being drank on Crowell. That will add to the pressure and he'll fall in the footsteps of Gordon....cut by end of training camp.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Camp has begun, the pads are on and their is some info trickling out on both Crowell and West.

First day Isaiah Crowell was making ankle-breaking cuts and drawing oohs from the crowd attending practice according to Browns Daily Host Nathan Zigera but he wasn't the only one.

Yesterday on Browns Daily NFL Network Insider Jason LaConfora was asked about Terrance West since he grew up next to Towson State where West played and he knows all about him. He said the one talent West has that wasn't utilized at T-State and that many have overlooked about him is his his ability as a reciever. He said that Terrance West had vastly overlooked hands and that his pass receiving ability will suprise many who assume that since he wasn't utilized as a receiver at Towson that he has bad hands.

Today a story about West notes he has locked good catching the ball.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/sports/football/rb-west-creating-buzz-browns-training-camp/ngqPm/

Posted: 12:02 p.m. Tuesday, July 29, 2014
RB West creating buzz in Browns training campBEREA — Cleveland rookie running back Terrance West has wasted little time proving that he belongs in the big leagues. The talented small-school (Towson) product has opened some eyes out the gate with his performance in Browns training camp.



...Put on a show he did. West made a couple nice one-hand grabs during the team’s first day of practice that elicited oohs and aahs from the crowd. He showed his versatility running the ball as well, ripping off long runs that produced the same results from fans. West described his running style as simple.

“I’m a downhill runner,” he said. “It’s put one foot in the ground and get to it. It’s not about running east and west, it’s about getting those yards, moving the ball forward and scoring touchdowns.”

The 5-foot-9, 225-pound West is well-built with a thick lower body and he is violent runner. He shows good quickness, leverage, power and has a little shake to him to make defenders miss. West believes he shares some of the same abilities as San Francisco running back Frank Gore. But Browns running backs coach Wilbert Montgomery thinks otherwise.

“Terrence has some shades of (former NFL RB) Brian Westbrook,” Montgomery said. “He can break you down with his right leg and break you down with his left. He has that Ricky Watters or Walter Payton lure-you-to-sleep-on-the-sidelines move that ‘I can accelerate or I can play like I’m going to accelerate and cut back inside.’ Those are some of the traits that I haven’t seen in a while, since Walter Payton and Ricky Watters.”

Ben Tate is still the starter AFIK but West is nipping at his heels and if Crowell makes more noticeable plays he will press for playing time too.

 

[cloppbeast]

Too much Kool Aid being drank on Crowell. That will add to the pressure and he'll fall in the footsteps of Gordon....cut by end of training camp.

A lot more posters drinking the Terrance West kool-aid in this thread.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Browns UDFA RB Isaiah Crowell was active for Saturday night's preseason opener, but didn't play an offensive snap.
Ben Tate, Terrance West, Dion Lewis, and Edwin Baker all got carries, while Crowell was relegated to the sideline. The NFL.com Gamebook had Crowell entering the game at some point, presumably on a special teams play. Either way, it's not a great sign for Crowell's chances of making the Browns' final roster.

 

[Second Sight]

I voted for West. Not so much because of the recent news regarding Crowell but it seems the announcers just couldn't say enough times of how much the organization loves him. They just lauded him over and over again.

This may be coincidence, but I have noticed over the years that in the pre-season, when the announcers do things like this, there really is some fire behind the smoke. I have come to reason that this is because when it's preseason, the announcers spend a lot of time getting to know the names and really do pay attention to where the key position battles are and they make notes of which coaches are saying what about whom; mainly because they know in preseason they have a lot of airtime to fill up.

So, I give what they have to say a little extra weight. §

 

[Nero]

I'll admit that West looked better than expected, but I still got Crowell in this one.

 

[Dismattle]

Hey Kelly I believe you are correct, and I really don't know much about all the players mentioned.

..But if you ask me! I think the Fans got to see the "$1 RB", the Draft pick!, and some possibles' to make the final cuts.

I think theres a chance, the Browns know what they have in Crowell. Should he be tested for pass-blocking or routes? Hopefully in the 3rd Pre-Season is my only answer.

 

[Chaka]

Hey Kelly I believe you are correct, and I really don't know much about all the players mentioned.

..But if you ask me! I think the Fans got to see the "$1 RB", the Draft pick!, and some possibles' to make the final cuts.

I think theres a chance, the Browns know what they have in Crowell. Should he be tested for pass-blocking or routes? Hopefully in the 3rd Pre-Season is my only answer.

I am not sure if I am interpreting that statement correctly but I think there is zero chance the Browns are saving Crowell because they have already decided he is the real deal.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Interested in seeing Tate and West during MNF.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Crowell guys still sticking to their guns?

 

[KellysHeroes]

Crowell guys still sticking to their guns?

Browns are just trying to hide him

 

[Nero]

Crowell guys still sticking to their guns?

I know I am. I want to see him fail on the field. He hasn't been given an opportunity yet. I didn't just follow the hype, I watched his clips myself and thought he was one of the best prospects in this class. Until I see him get a shot, I'll probably hold. West has exceed my expectations, but I still don't think he is better than Crowell. I thought Ben Tate would distance himself from West, but he hasn't. That said, I'll be holding on to Crowell, because I think he is better than both of them. Delusional, I know! But that is where I am at.

 

[saintfool]

Crowell guys still sticking to their guns?

I know I am. I want to see him fail on the field. He hasn't been given an opportunity yet. I didn't just follow the hype, I watched his clips myself and thought he was one of the best prospects in this class. Until I see him get a shot, I'll probably hold. West has exceed my expectations, but I still don't think he is better than Crowell. I thought Ben Tate would distance himself from West, but he hasn't. That said, I'll be holding on to Crowell, because I think he is better than both of them. Delusional, I know! But that is where I am at.

4.3 ypc on 19 attempts vs 2.8 ypc on 25 attempts would seem to show otherwise....

 

[Dismattle]

I take it the fans of Crowell read a bad tweet or something, and clam up for 24 hrs?

 

[Chaka]

I take it the fans of Crowell read a bad tweet or something, and clam up for 24 hrs?

Maybe but I think the Browns cutting Lewis and Ogbannaya was a good sign for Crowell fans.

 

[KellysHeroes]

The guy lights up 3rd stringers and roto us pounding their chest again

 

[Dismattle]

http://fansided.com/2014/09/01/browns-coach-mike-pettine-disappointed-rookie-rb-terrance-west/#!bNOom8

Browns coach Mike Pettine disappointed with rookie RB Terrance West?

The Browns wanted Tate.

Tate could become a slight bit complacent..



But lets avoid seeing a post stating, "What happened, who is.."

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

The guy lights up 3rd stringers and roto us pounding their chest again

At least he has the ability to light up third stringers. Its a good start.

 

[Nero]

The guy lights up 3rd stringers and roto us pounding their chest again

The lighting up 3rd stringers chapter of his career is over. How long will it be before he is the primary back to spell Tate? I'm thinking 4 games max. Once he starts to light up 1st stringers, he'll cut into Tate's carries. I get the feel that this is setting up to be his job by season's end.

 

[FGITLOTR]

In a dynasty league, is it crazy to roster Crowell over West? I understand that Crowell is a superior talent, but won't they give the third round draft pick every opportunity to fail?

 

[az_prof]

In a dynasty league, is it crazy to roster Crowell over West? I understand that Crowell is a superior talent, but won't they give the third round draft pick every opportunity to fail?

I wouldn't say crazy, but I would say that it is very speculative. Even the claim that "Crowell is a superior talent" is quite speculative. In the NFL, we only saw Crowell in one game playing against third stringers. He did well and made the team, so he must have some talent. But I don't know that we can say it is superior.

 

[Steelers4Life]

It's a process.

Crowell came in with an uphill battle just to make the team despite his natural talent, and he wasn't going to be handed anything given his (lack of) draft status and history of off-field problems. Step one was beating out two established veterans for a roster spot, and he did that. He wasn't going to get a realistic shot to beat out Tate or West.

And despite the fact that some want to dismiss what he did in the fourth preseason game, the Browns clearly didn't. I would go so far as to say the results weren't even that important, but it was how he LOOKED that got him a roster spot. He LOOKS like an NFL RB, and he LOOKS like a talent that was a 5-star recruit out of high school.

People who dismiss him because he was undrafted are probably the same ones who dismissed Bryce Brown, and Bryce will eventually get his shot too because he's looked good in limited action. Crowell has a much smaller hill to climb.

Eventually, he's going to get a shot in the real games, whether by design or as a result of injury. At that point we'll really see how he stacks up, but guys with his athletic pedigree don't just forget how to run the football. It's just a matter of him behaving off the field.

 

[Chaka]

It's a process.

Crowell came in with an uphill battle just to make the team despite his natural talent, and he wasn't going to be handed anything given his (lack of) draft status and history of off-field problems. Step one was beating out two established veterans for a roster spot, and he did that. He wasn't going to get a realistic shot to beat out Tate or West.

And despite the fact that some want to dismiss what he did in the fourth preseason game, the Browns clearly didn't. I would go so far as to say the results weren't even that important, but it was how he LOOKED that got him a roster spot. He LOOKS like an NFL RB, and he LOOKS like a talent that was a 5-star recruit out of high school.

People who dismiss him because he was undrafted are probably the same ones who dismissed Bryce Brown, and Bryce will eventually get his shot too because he's looked good in limited action. Crowell has a much smaller hill to climb.

Eventually, he's going to get a shot in the real games, whether by design or as a result of injury. At that point we'll really see how he stacks up, but guys with his athletic pedigree don't just forget how to run the football. It's just a matter of him behaving off the field.

Not if he doesn't stop getting hit for a loss on 18% of his carries he won't.

Chip Kelly isn't in the habit of dumping good RBs.

 

[hotboyz]

Here is a great read on Crowell West I not that good of a Rb talent in my honest opinion

http://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2013/12/30/isaiah-crowell/

 

[voiceofunreason]

In a dynasty league, is it crazy to roster Crowell over West? I understand that Crowell is a superior talent, but won't they give the third round draft pick every opportunity to fail?

I wouldn't say crazy, but I would say that it is very speculative. Even the claim that "Crowell is a superior talent" is quite speculative. In the NFL, we only saw Crowell in one game playing against third stringers. He did well and made the team, so he must have some talent. But I don't know that we can say it is superior.

I happily drafted Crowell over West. I give a lot of weight to the NFL draft but on the other hand you have to stick with your own opinion while understanding why players were picked where they were. For me, I look at West as a guy with very limited talent. People always talk about what Crowell did and what a long shot he is, well West wasn't even in division I college ball. West looks like a long shot to me as well. The Browns picked him in the 3rd round but they do a lot of stupid things so it doesn't hold the same value for me as if a team like the Packers drafted him early. All in all, I'll take the guy I believe has more talent.

 

[az_prof]

In a dynasty league, is it crazy to roster Crowell over West? I understand that Crowell is a superior talent, but won't they give the third round draft pick every opportunity to fail?

I wouldn't say crazy, but I would say that it is very speculative. Even the claim that "Crowell is a superior talent" is quite speculative. In the NFL, we only saw Crowell in one game playing against third stringers. He did well and made the team, so he must have some talent. But I don't know that we can say it is superior.

I happily drafted Crowell over West. I give a lot of weight to the NFL draft but on the other hand you have to stick with your own opinion while understanding why players were picked where they were. For me, I look at West as a guy with very limited talent. People always talk about what Crowell did and what a long shot he is, well West wasn't even in division I college ball. West looks like a long shot to me as well. The Browns picked him in the 3rd round but they do a lot of stupid things so it doesn't hold the same value for me as if a team like the Packers drafted him early. All in all, I'll take the guy I believe has more talent.

Yes. That's your opinion and you should stick with it until facts prove otherwise. I did the same analysis of their college careers and came to the opposite conclusion. Crowell was playing in a conference, the SWAC, that was not considered nearly as good as the conference West played in, the CAA. And when you compare their play against the same level of competition, I was more impressed by West. West was far more productive playing at the same level--not even close.

I took West in the second round of my draft, accordingly, after I agreed with the draft position of the two. And since they started their NFL careers West has led the competition as Crowell missed OTAs with injury and then didn't play in a preseason game until the last, which is the least meaningful because most starters don't even play at all.

So, I would say it is arguable who is more talented because not everyone agrees. My assessment based on comparable competition in college is that West is a better all around back. We'll see how good Crowell is when he plays with the starters and gets hit in the backfield a few times because I didn't see much tackle breaking or juking ability from him in college and in that one preseason game he wasn't even touched on those two long runs.

 

[Brewtown]

In a dynasty league, is it crazy to roster Crowell over West? I understand that Crowell is a superior talent, but won't they give the third round draft pick every opportunity to fail?

I wouldn't say crazy, but I would say that it is very speculative. Even the claim that "Crowell is a superior talent" is quite speculative. In the NFL, we only saw Crowell in one game playing against third stringers. He did well and made the team, so he must have some talent. But I don't know that we can say it is superior.

I happily drafted Crowell over West. I give a lot of weight to the NFL draft but on the other hand you have to stick with your own opinion while understanding why players were picked where they were. For me, I look at West as a guy with very limited talent. People always talk about what Crowell did and what a long shot he is, well West wasn't even in division I college ball. West looks like a long shot to me as well. The Browns picked him in the 3rd round but they do a lot of stupid things so it doesn't hold the same value for me as if a team like the Packers drafted him early. All in all, I'll take the guy I believe has more talent.

Yes. That's your opinion and you should stick with it until facts prove otherwise. I did the same analysis of their college careers and came to the opposite conclusion. Crowell was playing in a conference, the SWAC, that was not considered nearly as good as the conference West played in, the CAA. And when you compare their play against the same level of competition, I was more impressed by West. West was far more productive playing at the same level--not even close.I took West in the second round of my draft, accordingly, after I agreed with the draft position of the two. And since they started their NFL careers West has led the competition as Crowell missed OTAs with injury and then didn't play in a preseason game until the last, which is the least meaningful because most starters don't even play at all.

So, I would say it is arguable who is more talented because not everyone agrees. My assessment based on comparable competition in college is that West is a better all around back. We'll see how good Crowell is when he plays with the starters and gets hit in the backfield a few times because I didn't see much tackle breaking or juking ability from him in college and in that one preseason game he wasn't even touched on those two long runs.

Crowell is better and more talented!

Done and Done!

 

[Cheesedawg]

I watched Crowell closely when he was at UGA and he looked like a star, talent-wise. I wasn't even thinking about him as an NFL prospect because he was just a freshman. Watching the highlight package posted above from his UGA history, he is really impressive. I have no idea whether he regressed after leaving UGA as I haven't seen his small-college tape.

They must eventually plan to give him some carries because he surely isn't a special teams' asset. But early on I figure he won't see much of anything. Tate is healthy and there is a third-round pick ahead of him. I'm sure Crowell is still just catching on to the Browns' system.

 

[Xue]

In a dynasty league, is it crazy to roster Crowell over West? I understand that Crowell is a superior talent, but won't they give the third round draft pick every opportunity to fail?

I wouldn't say crazy, but I would say that it is very speculative. Even the claim that "Crowell is a superior talent" is quite speculative. In the NFL, we only saw Crowell in one game playing against third stringers. He did well and made the team, so he must have some talent. But I don't know that we can say it is superior.

I happily drafted Crowell over West. I give a lot of weight to the NFL draft but on the other hand you have to stick with your own opinion while understanding why players were picked where they were. For me, I look at West as a guy with very limited talent. People always talk about what Crowell did and what a long shot he is, well West wasn't even in division I college ball. West looks like a long shot to me as well. The Browns picked him in the 3rd round but they do a lot of stupid things so it doesn't hold the same value for me as if a team like the Packers drafted him early. All in all, I'll take the guy I believe has more talent.

Yes. That's your opinion and you should stick with it until facts prove otherwise. I did the same analysis of their college careers and came to the opposite conclusion. Crowell was playing in a conference, the SWAC, that was not considered nearly as good as the conference West played in, the CAA. And when you compare their play against the same level of competition, I was more impressed by West. West was far more productive playing at the same level--not even close.

I took West in the second round of my draft, accordingly, after I agreed with the draft position of the two. And since they started their NFL careers West has led the competition as Crowell missed OTAs with injury and then didn't play in a preseason game until the last, which is the least meaningful because most starters don't even play at all.

So, I would say it is arguable who is more talented because not everyone agrees. My assessment based on comparable competition in college is that West is a better all around back. We'll see how good Crowell is when he plays with the starters and gets hit in the backfield a few times because I didn't see much tackle breaking or juking ability from him in college and in that one preseason game he wasn't even touched on those two long runs.

Your assessment is based on boxscores. Look at the tape. There is a reason West looked so poor on his carries in the preseason. It's because he is lacking talent of Crowell. West dances too much and simply does not have the burst or power/strength of Crowell. I mean, you're telling me that Cleveland's 1st or 2nd string O-line was that bad? How come Tate looked fine?

West is also 2 years older than Crowell. Crowell is 21 years old this season. What was West doing at age 21? Age is something overlooked when comparing players against one another.

He actually was touched on the shorter of the long runs. Watch again: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000385544/Q3-Crowell-23-yard-run

He breaks a tackle from #35 Marcus Trice: http://i.imgur.com/imXbasM.jpg