Terrance West vs Isaiah Crowell (1 Viewer)

[Chaka]

It's funny creating some big deal when nothing has changed.

Yes nothing has changed. Crowell has always been more talented than West.

You do realize that the most talented runner doesn't always win out, don't you? It happens every year where some shiny new RB has some big runs and people are continually baffled as to why professional football coaches don't give them more PT. The RB game is every bit as much about ball security and pass protection (if not more so) then it is about gaining the most yards per carry.

I'm rooting for Crow but this one is far from decided. And either way there is no question that Tate is the lead back and will dominate touches as long as he is healthy. That should be the clearest takeaway from the last two weeks in Cleveland.

The debate wasn't about who will win out.

Holding onto the football is a football talent.

I agree that Crowell looks like a very talented runner, maybe moreso then West, but why not let it play out a little bit more before trying to declare yourself the winner of an internet argument? Crow's PT will determine the winner, not your prideful gesticulations based upon very little info that isn't all sunshine and roses.

 

[thehornet]

This thread is classic. What were the West supporters watching?

I'm not sold Crowell has more talent. The NFL has proven that it doesn't really care about off field issues if a guy has talent. Ray Lewis, Dante Stallworth, and Mike Vick all KILLED people, and dogs, and still got to play football for lots of money.

If Crowell had that much talent in the eyes of NFL scouts, he'd have been drafted.

Crowell has talent for sure.The talk of him being the best RB in this draft based on tape is ridiculous IMO. He's got solid game footage but not spectacular. Many are acting like this is a guy who has 1st round ability but feel only because of off field issues. Well, explain J. Hill then? He had several off field issues, similar to Crowell. He is supposed to be a worse RB prospect and yet he still got drafted in the 2nd, as the 2nd RB overall. The truth of the matter is Crowell is a boob with an over inflated perception of his ability among FFers. I'm probably one of them as well seeing I did expect him to get drafted and him falling out altogether is a surprise to me. Maybe he's good enough to beat out West for the backup position to Tate. I don't see some star in the making here though. The NFL is pretty good at this and when they allow a guy to go completely undrafted, it's not just a character problem.

Or they just don't/can't admit they may have been wrong.A guy many thought was the best running talent in this class went undrafted. Maybe he pans out, maybe he doesn't. It's pretty clear that was a bad call either way.

LOL. Ready to admit you were wrong? No need, you were wrong once that post was made.It's always been pretty clear that Crowell was more talented than West. Anyone who saw otherwise was just lying to themselves.

I'm with those that think if he was truly as talented as Waldman and others believe, he would have been drafted.

Can't believe this is really even much of a debate as I think it's West by a mile.

That along with the fact that he very coaching staff that supposedly doesn't value RBs traded up to get West in the 3rd round.There is no sugar coating this. Crowell simply isn't as good as all the internet experts thought he was.

No sugar coating is right. You guys needed to get your eyes checked.jurb26 and Bronco Billy, eat your Crow-ell yet?

jurb26 and Bronco Billy, where you guys at? West was a healthy scratch. Clearly more talented.

You can tell how often a guy is right when you see how he reacts when he ends up on that side. Pretty obvious it's not something you experience often.

Is this really all you have? You can tell who actually watches the tape and who watches it and lies to themselves.

Sorry, but not sorry. You were dead wrong on Crowell and West, as were others.

Did you watch the tape of Crowell putting the ball on the turf 3 times in 9 touches? That was kind of difficult to miss.I won't deny that the guy has talent but, even if they credit Hoyer with one of the fumbles and they only lost one of the 3, I guarantee you that ratio concerns any coach on any level. It may have opened the door back up for West, so you should see how it plays out this week before acting like you are the #### of the walk. If Crow holds on to the unquestioned #2 RB spot despite that performance then all Crow owners, myself included, should be very happy.

I think you're getting caught up on the fumbles a little more than you need to. History has not shown him to have a real fumbling issue. Consider it a bad day and the coaches will probably be hammering away at him this week in practice. Now if he continues to fumble, well then he won't even be in the NFL that long. Teams have no use for chronic fumbling. west was a healthy scratch last week. This speak volumes to his current value on the team. you don't deactiviate guys left and right on a whim. It was a calculated decision based on likely a number of things, most of which we don't know. One thing is certain, they trust Crowell and one game full of fumbling issues (all weren't his fault) isn't gong to change anything about his development, value and current role on the team.

 

[Chaka]

I think you're getting caught up on the fumbles a little more than you need to. History has not shown him to have a real fumbling issue. Consider it a bad day and the coaches will probably be hammering away at him this week in practice. Now if he continues to fumble, well then he won't even be in the NFL that long. Teams have no use for chronic fumbling.

west was a healthy scratch last week. This speak volumes to his current value on the team. you don't deactiviate guys left and right on a whim. It was a calculated decision based on likely a number of things, most of which we don't know. One thing is certain, they trust Crowell and one game full of fumbling issues (all weren't his fault) isn't gong to change anything about his development, value and current role on the team.

I agree with all of that except the last part. It could change his current role in the near term. A game like that has to make any coach reevaluate the situation.

 

[Sabertooth]

I think you're getting caught up on the fumbles a little more than you need to. History has not shown him to have a real fumbling issue. Consider it a bad day and the coaches will probably be hammering away at him this week in practice. Now if he continues to fumble, well then he won't even be in the NFL that long. Teams have no use for chronic fumbling.

west was a healthy scratch last week. This speak volumes to his current value on the team. you don't deactiviate guys left and right on a whim. It was a calculated decision based on likely a number of things, most of which we don't know. One thing is certain, they trust Crowell and one game full of fumbling issues (all weren't his fault) isn't gong to change anything about his development, value and current role on the team.

I agree with all of that except the last part. It could change his current role in the near term. A game like that has to make any coach reevaluate the situation.

Yeah 7 yards per carry should increase his role

 

[Chaka]

I think you're getting caught up on the fumbles a little more than you need to. History has not shown him to have a real fumbling issue. Consider it a bad day and the coaches will probably be hammering away at him this week in practice. Now if he continues to fumble, well then he won't even be in the NFL that long. Teams have no use for chronic fumbling.

west was a healthy scratch last week. This speak volumes to his current value on the team. you don't deactiviate guys left and right on a whim. It was a calculated decision based on likely a number of things, most of which we don't know. One thing is certain, they trust Crowell and one game full of fumbling issues (all weren't his fault) isn't gong to change anything about his development, value and current role on the team.

I agree with all of that except the last part. It could change his current role in the near term. A game like that has to make any coach reevaluate the situation.

Yeah 7 yards per carry should increase his role

I don't understand how/why smart people who watch a lot of football, and have for a long period of time, can simply shrug off a three fumble (on 9 touch) performance while propping up a flashy YPC at the same time.

This is absolutely a middle ground situation. The great has to be balanced out by the terrible and there was both in Crowell's performance last week. You can't logically decide to pick and choose because they both happened plain as day, doing so is completely irrational.

I agree that Crowell will probably keep his hold on the #2 RB job but that is the best case scenario for him until/unless Tate gets hurt again.

 

[Warhogs]

I think we need more Crowell threads on the first page. I only see 3.

 

[Bronco Billy]

If he does have an issue hanging onto the football, it will be exposed pretty quickly. That trait is blood in the water to D players in the NFL. It will be relentless until he proves to opponents otherwise.

 

[Sabertooth]

I think you're getting caught up on the fumbles a little more than you need to. History has not shown him to have a real fumbling issue. Consider it a bad day and the coaches will probably be hammering away at him this week in practice. Now if he continues to fumble, well then he won't even be in the NFL that long. Teams have no use for chronic fumbling.

west was a healthy scratch last week. This speak volumes to his current value on the team. you don't deactiviate guys left and right on a whim. It was a calculated decision based on likely a number of things, most of which we don't know. One thing is certain, they trust Crowell and one game full of fumbling issues (all weren't his fault) isn't gong to change anything about his development, value and current role on the team.

I agree with all of that except the last part. It could change his current role in the near term. A game like that has to make any coach reevaluate the situation.

Yeah 7 yards per carry should increase his role

I don't understand how/why smart people who watch a lot of football, and have for a long period of time, can simply shrug off a three fumble (on 9 touch) performance while propping up a flashy YPC at the same time.

This is absolutely a middle ground situation. The great has to be balanced out by the terrible and there was both in Crowell's performance last week. You can't logically decide to pick and choose because they both happened plain as day, doing so is completely irrational.

I agree that Crowell will probably keep his hold on the #2 RB job but that is the best case scenario for him until/unless Tate gets hurt again.

Because for all the conjecture, nobody really knows how the Browns coaching staff is going to move forward. We are all just guessing. I tend to think his great/terrible game is a wash and will impact him very little moving forward.

 

[Van Dyman]

Practice and coaching should fix the Hoyer-Crowell exchange on the pitch plays. As for losing it on a big hit from the defender, they'll definitely have to work on that.

But you CAN teach a guy to hang onto the rock better or, if necessary, use handoffs instead of pitches. I'm not sure you can teach people to run like that.

 

[lod01]

Practice and coaching should fix the Hoyer-Crowell exchange on the pitch plays. As for losing it on a big hit from the defender, they'll definitely have to work on that.

But you CAN teach a guy to hang onto the rock better or, if necessary, use handoffs instead of pitches. I'm not sure you can teach people to run like that.

You can't You either have that or you don't but you can't keep laying the ball on the ground either. If he can get this fixed and not be stupid off the field, he's a Marshawn Lynch type NFL RB.

 

[jurb26]

This thread is classic. What were the West supporters watching?

I'm not sold Crowell has more talent. The NFL has proven that it doesn't really care about off field issues if a guy has talent. Ray Lewis, Dante Stallworth, and Mike Vick all KILLED people, and dogs, and still got to play football for lots of money.

If Crowell had that much talent in the eyes of NFL scouts, he'd have been drafted.

Crowell has talent for sure.The talk of him being the best RB in this draft based on tape is ridiculous IMO. He's got solid game footage but not spectacular. Many are acting like this is a guy who has 1st round ability but feel only because of off field issues. Well, explain J. Hill then? He had several off field issues, similar to Crowell. He is supposed to be a worse RB prospect and yet he still got drafted in the 2nd, as the 2nd RB overall. The truth of the matter is Crowell is a boob with an over inflated perception of his ability among FFers. I'm probably one of them as well seeing I did expect him to get drafted and him falling out altogether is a surprise to me. Maybe he's good enough to beat out West for the backup position to Tate. I don't see some star in the making here though. The NFL is pretty good at this and when they allow a guy to go completely undrafted, it's not just a character problem.

Or they just don't/can't admit they may have been wrong.A guy many thought was the best running talent in this class went undrafted. Maybe he pans out, maybe he doesn't. It's pretty clear that was a bad call either way.

LOL. Ready to admit you were wrong? No need, you were wrong once that post was made.It's always been pretty clear that Crowell was more talented than West. Anyone who saw otherwise was just lying to themselves.

I'm with those that think if he was truly as talented as Waldman and others believe, he would have been drafted.

Can't believe this is really even much of a debate as I think it's West by a mile.

That along with the fact that he very coaching staff that supposedly doesn't value RBs traded up to get West in the 3rd round.There is no sugar coating this. Crowell simply isn't as good as all the internet experts thought he was.

No sugar coating is right. You guys needed to get your eyes checked.jurb26 and Bronco Billy, eat your Crow-ell yet?

jurb26 and Bronco Billy, where you guys at? West was a healthy scratch. Clearly more talented.

You can tell how often a guy is right when you see how he reacts when he ends up on that side. Pretty obvious it's not something you experience often.

Is this really all you have? You can tell who actually watches the tape and who watches it and lies to themselves.

Sorry, but not sorry. You were dead wrong on Crowell and West, as were others.

I've seen you miss so badly so often that while you may watch plenty of tape you aren't educated enough to interpret it well. That also explains your need to personalize things and act like a ##### when you finally get one right. And before you go off and spike the football again, if you were as brilliant as you seem to think you are, you'd realize this isn't over yet and has some years to play out, and that you might want to wait a while before declaring victory and trying to push people's noses in it. I don't have a dog in this fight, but it might serve you a lesson in adulthood if this situation were to flip again in the future.

With that, I'll step away from this and let you enjoy yourself with your pathetic little victory dance.

Yeah, I'm highly confused over why Xue is doing a victory dance here. Also, I'm not sure he know how to read very well. The argument was never that Crowell doesn't have talent. It was that he doesn't have as much talent as many thought. As you see in those posts I included myself as one of those people. So I ate crow about Crowell a while back. Betting out West is a nice step as was making the team. It's still a far cry from anointing this guy the best RB in this class and 1 with 1st round ability. I'm still not seeing that.

 

[just_want_2_win]

From RW:

Terrance West was benched after failing to pick up a first down on a pair of second-quarter carries in Sunday's loss at Jacksonville.


West was actually playing ahead of Isaiah Crowell to open the game. He had room to run in both critical short-yardage situations, but tried to do too much. "I missed it," he said. "Wish I could get it back. ... I know I've got limited reps. So I know when I'm in a game, I'm trying to get a big play." On Monday, coach Mike Pettine lamented trying to get three running backs into the rotations. We wouldn't be surprised if West goes back to healthy scratch status this week, leaving Crowell to pick up all the work behind Ben Tate against the Raiders.

 

[Xue]

Yeah, I'm highly confused over why Xue is doing a victory dance here. Also, I'm not sure he know how to read very well. The argument was never that Crowell doesn't have talent. It was that he doesn't have as much talent as many thought. As you see in those posts I included myself as one of those people. So I ate crow about Crowell a while back. Betting out West is a nice step as was making the team. It's still a far cry from anointing this guy the best RB in this class and 1 with 1st round ability. I'm still not seeing that.

That may be your argument, but not Bronco Billy's.

 

[lod01]

I like the Crow vs the Raiders if West is inactive.

 

[just_want_2_win]

Browns running back Terrance West was benched again in Jacksonville, and fellow rookie Isaiah Crowell was surprised he wasn't the first back off the bench behind Ben Tate.

What's more, both backs admitted they're having trouble getting into the flow of the game with their limited reps.

"Yeah, it's hard to get into rhythm with three guys just because you don't get warm,'' said Crowell, who rushed seven times for 18 yards -- a 2.6-yard average that was best among the backs -- with a long gain of 11. "You kind of come to the sideline and kind of get kind of cold.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/10/cleveland_browns_rb_terrance_w.html

 

[urbanhack]

Update?

 

[purestrength]

Answer: Neither is the one to own in 2014.

 

[jurb26]

Both are pretty useless right now. West seems to be ahead on the depth chart again, though.

 

[Bronco Billy]

.

 

[nxmehta]

Until Alex Mack comes back, these guys are useless.

 

[thatguythere]

Until Alex Mack comes back, these guys are useless.

You mean next season...?

 

[lod01]

Until Alex Mack comes back, these guys are useless.

You mean next season...?

It is pretty amazing that losing one guy can turn a team's running game into nothing.

ATL has lost 4 OL since game one and I think Philly has lost a couple as well.

 

[Bronco Billy]

Yeah, I'm highly confused over why Xue is doing a victory dance here. Also, I'm not sure he know how to read very well. The argument was never that Crowell doesn't have talent. It was that he doesn't have as much talent as many thought. As you see in those posts I included myself as one of those people. So I ate crow about Crowell a while back. Betting out West is a nice step as was making the team. It's still a far cry from anointing this guy the best RB in this class and 1 with 1st round ability. I'm still not seeing that.

That may be your argument, but not Bronco Billy's.

 

[jurb26]

 

[Bronco Billy]

On a positive side, it won't take long to evaluate his game film - even if you know what you're looking for.

.

 

[CR69]

Yeah West sure is killing it today. This debate won't be settled this week or next, everyone should stop patting themselves on the back when the situation is changing on a weekly basis. Both backs are good, I'm expecting a time share next year with Crowell getting the 3rd down work.

We can all agree that Tate sucks, yes?

 

[jurb26]

Yeah West sure is killing it today. This debate won't be settled this week or next, everyone should stop patting themselves on the back when the situation is changing on a weekly basis. Both backs are good, I'm expecting a time share next year with Crowell getting the 3rd down work.

We can all agree that Tate sucks, yes?

We were told it was settled 3 weeks ago.

 

[T with T]

West made a great block on that linebacker Lavonte David saved Hoyer and allowed him to make the td play. I have always liked West and think he should receive 20 touches per game but what does CLE staff think? you never know.

 

[monessen]

Just eliminate the word "what" in T with T's question.

 

[CR69]

Clear as mud.

 

[jurb26]

Seems West is now the starter but Tate and Crowell are alternating red zone?

 

[CR69]

Seems West is now the starter but Tate and Crowell are alternating red zone?

Tate was in for the first play on the last drive, but then Crowell came in for the redzone plays. Completely unpredictable at this point imo.

 

[jurb26]

Seems West is now the starter but Tate and Crowell are alternating red zone?

Tate was in for the first play on the last drive, but then Crowell came in for the redzone plays. Completely unpredictable at this point imo.

Other than the fact West is out there running very play between the 20s.

 

[shadyridr]

Yeah West is the RB to own for now. Hes played the most snaps.

 

[CR69]

Seems West is now the starter but Tate and Crowell are alternating red zone?

Tate was in for the first play on the last drive, but then Crowell came in for the redzone plays. Completely unpredictable at this point imo.

Other than the fact West is out there running very play between the 20s.

On the drive where Crowell scored, Tate was in when they were on the 30. West is definitely the "lead" back right now though. He's missed a couple blocks in pass protection but has looked pretty good otherwise.

ETA: Of course Crowell is in to start the next drive. I give up.

 

[Faust]

Isaiah Crowell/Terrance West 'Show' begins in earnest:

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/9906/the-isaiah-crowellterrance-west-show-begins-in-earnest

 

[Boone22]

How does this shake out this year with Duke Johnson added to the mix? Is it a 3-headed RBBC or does one take the bulk of the work?

 

[Sabertooth]

Tough to say. I think both Crowell and west showed promise. My money is on Crowell but I'm not betting the farm. Johnson obviously complicates things some but with his size I don't see how he's going to be the bellcow.

If Crowell can be assignment sure and stop fumbling he's got a lot of skill. I believe that's what held him back last season. His per carry production was great. Long term he's my pony.

 

[jurb26]

How does this shake out this year with Duke Johnson added to the mix? Is it a 3-headed RBBC or does one take the bulk of the work?

Anyone's guess is as good as mine. Personally, I think Duke is the best RB on the team now. I don't have a clue how it actually plays out, though.

 

[georg013]

Duke Johnson is the hot new name. He is no better than West or Crowell. Just a shiny new toy for fantasy owners to drool over. Pass. He is not a bell cow and never will be. If you own any one of these backs, you are likely going to think your guy is the best and round and round we go. Last year, Duke Johnson was Ben Tate. Get ready for another three headed monster and game time decisions on who to start. You're fooling yourself if you think otherwise. Practice performance will dictate who is the starter on an hourly basis while twitter fools speculate and change like dirty underwear. Yes, I own Crowell.

 

[lod01]

I also own Crowell and believe he is the best by a large margin IF he doesn't fumble.

 

[DexterDew]

drafted Duke and traded for Crowell and 3.09 for 2.02(Ajayi)/L Green in TE premium... still have Gronk and IND TEs.

I like Crowell to take the majority of touches and Duke to be COP... not too optimistic about how good their offense will be in general

 

[The Man With No Name]

Being somewhat local, the impression I got is that they intend to run the ball 600 times and control the clock. If the defense can keep them in games, it may be possible. They do have a good offensive line too. Odds are not good that will happen though.

If healthy, I believe all 3 will get touches to be fantasy relevant at certain points during the season. Guessing who, when and in what games is the issue.

 

[pecorino]

Steelers homer here. Know next to nothing about Johnson but seeing Crowell and West last year, I thought Crowell looked far better. Reminded me of Marion Barber and the way he runs, may have a short, flame out career, too.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

drafted Duke and traded for Crowell and 3.09 for 2.02(Ajayi)/L Green in TE premium... still have Gronk and IND TEs.

I like Crowell to take the majority of touches and Duke to be COP... not too optimistic about how good their offense will be in general

Interesting. Personally, would have stayed away from the Browns running game and taken someone other than Duke wherever you got him, and a WR at 2.02.

 

[B Maverick]

So bummed that Duke went here. Big fan of his and Crowell. Unfortunately with the comments I could see Crowell as the Alf Morris role and Duke as the Helu role from the last few years in WA. Although it would not surprise me if Duke takes the job outright. And yes, I am discounting West to the backup role, I don't see him as talented as the other two.

 

[georg013]

No love for West. Damn.

 

[Sabertooth]

Clear as mud. None of these players has much value at all.

 

[Peak]

I think Duke edges out West as the #2 RB in CLE. West has some talent, but his attitude put him in the dog house last season. Drafting Duke is the Browns way of telling West to shape up or ship out, IMO. I feel that Crowell is still the #1 RB and guy to own in CLE. But as was mentioned a few posts above, CLE will try to pound the ball on the ground - which they were effective at doing last year before Mack was injured. Add in Erving on the Oline for depth, and they should be primed to pound the ball again this year.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Crowell had about 10 touches per game last year, West had about 13. Not sure this is cut and dry either way, but since West is a lot cheaper that's where I'd go for 2015.