It is really simple. Mom or grandma went down to the health department and filed the paperwork. Hawaii for decades have accepted such filings. These filings indicate he was born in Hawaii. The stae od Hawaii recognizes him as being born in Hawaii and certainly would provide an official COLB. Newpapers simply report what the health department provides them. The whole conspiracy comes down to one person filing a dalse report so their child or grandchild is eligible for benefits.What the heck, I'll bitelease explain to me the "reasonable scenario" in which Barack Obama wasn't born in Hawaii but somehow there exists not only a certificate of live birth for him in the state but also two separate newspaper notices of his birth in the state.
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The Birther Conspiracy Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
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The Commish
Footballguy
Not sure the distinction you are making here. Don't kid yourself president is the most political position in this country. I'm not making excuses for the guy but he's deflecting without even trying. He's getting exactly what he wants with little to no effort. Until folks wake up and understand that our government is all about deflection and it's a "politician vs the people" mentality, stuff like this will happen. I can't be mad at him for playing the game as much as I can be mad at the people for not holding him to task on obviously legit issues. It's ridiculous. We've not had a president with the characteristics you want in my lifetime. I doubt we ever have one in my lifetime either.
Bamboo Bill
Footballguy
Seriously dude?? have you seen how many blanket statements you've thrown around here??
Jewell
Footballguy
Nope, I didn't watch the interview just like you didn't read those articles. Unless you're a speed reader.So one position on any one given matter dictates where you fall on the political spectrum? Obama is against gay marriage. Is he a Conservative?
Does a position on any one given matter erase your history which reflects a different overall picture?
Sam Quentin
Footballguy
He could certainly marginalize the remainder and get that 31% Independents number down to the low 20's
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
1. Do state health departments permit such filings? Because it seems to me that if they did, we wouldn't have any illegal immigrants. Everyone would just go down to the health department and "file the paperwork" saying they were born here, or have their parents do it, or whatever. Sorry, that seems hihgly dubious.2. Do you know that these newspapers just reprint info given to them by health departments? Because most newspapers only print submissions, they don't take it upon themselves to reprint every filing at a government office. That's how local announcements have worked at every newspaper I've ever been aware of.It is really simple. Mom or grandma went down to the health department and filed the paperwork. Hawaii for decades have accepted such filings. These filings indicate he was born in Hawaii. The stae od Hawaii recognizes him as being born in Hawaii and certainly would provide an official COLB. Newpapers simply report what the health department provides them. The whole conspiracy comes down to one person filing a dalse report so their child or grandchild is eligible for benefits.What the heck, I'll bite
The Commish
Footballguy
Ok, so i am grandma. I go down and say "Barak was born just a couple days ago and here's the paperwork necessary to produce the birth certificate. Please process". If the health department blindly files the paperwork, isn't it reasonable to think the paperwork says he was born in Hawaii? Won't they create the birth certificate based on the info given to them? In this theory, the birth certificate is nothing more than a formal documentation of the lie which is supposedly on the paperwork grandma filled out.It is really simple. Mom or grandma went down to the health department and filed the paperwork. Hawaii for decades have accepted such filings. These filings indicate he was born in Hawaii. The stae od Hawaii recognizes him as being born in Hawaii and certainly would provide an official COLB. Newpapers simply report what the health department provides them. The whole conspiracy comes down to one person filing a dalse report so their child or grandchild is eligible for benefits.What the heck, I'll bite
Sarnoff
Footballguy
I agree, and this is what really frustrates me. There was just so much hope this guy would be different it's even more depressing to find out he's just like all the other liars from both sides.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
And here's another question- the newspaper announcements were from what, just afew days later? If they weren't in Hawaii when Obama was born, how the heck did they get there fast enough to file paperwork with the state in time for it to be processed and then make it into whatever notification system you think the newspapers had to receive such notices? Even your story, which you claim is "reasonable," would require a woman who has just given birth to hop on a plane almost immediately afterwards, fly with a days-old newborn to the island state of Hawaii (a few hours from anywhere else on earth), and file paperwork in a state office which requires no documentation whatsoever to certify that the claimed in-state birth actually occurred? Either that or they, what, enlist grandma to go to it via long-distance call from wherever it is baby Barack was just born? And the state accepts such undocumented filings from relatives not in the immediate family, of course? And of course, whoever filed the paperwork would have to know in advance that no such documentation was required by the state office, otherwise they risk being charged with defrauding the government just to establish baby Barack's citizenship.You see how maybe that's not that reasonable? Especially when there's a perfectly reasonable explanation that fits 99.99999999% of all other birth announcements and state-issued documents1. Do state health departments permit such filings? Because it seems to me that if they did, we wouldn't have any illegal immigrants. Everyone would just go down to the health department and "file the paperwork" saying they were born here, or have their parents do it, or whatever. Sorry, that seems hihgly dubious.2. Do you know that these newspapers just reprint info given to them by health departments? Because most newspapers only print submissions, they don't take it upon themselves to reprint every filing at a government office. That's how local announcements have worked at every newspaper I've ever been aware of.It is really simple. Mom or grandma went down to the health department and filed the paperwork. Hawaii for decades have accepted such filings. These filings indicate he was born in Hawaii. The stae od Hawaii recognizes him as being born in Hawaii and certainly would provide an official COLB. Newpapers simply report what the health department provides them. The whole conspiracy comes down to one person filing a dalse report so their child or grandchild is eligible for benefits.What the heck, I'll bite
The Commish
Footballguy
If it makes you feel any better, there are a lot of people in that boat.
Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
Trump isn't running for president. He would, however, like you to know that Celebrity Apprentice is the top rated show on NBC and appears Sunday nights at 9 p.m. Eastern, 8 Central. Visit http://www.nbc.com/the-apprentice/ for more information.
saintfool
Dead sexy
i tend to think he underestimated the existing order. the system takes care of itself. if obama - with everything he had going into office - was stymied by the beltway and wall street then what hope is there for reform from some other schmuck? he's not a liar, imo, but was unfamiliar with how business gets done. the beltway and wall street were willing to indulge his youthful exuberance but only to a point...
Jewell
Footballguy
True. That's why I'm skeptical of both of these gentleman's sincerity on their positions.
1. 49 states? No. Hawaii? yes. Each state has their own rules and Hawaii's is probably the most lax.2. Yes. Newspapers use official sources such as health departments, police departments, and fire departments to get obituary, births, arrests, and such type info. They don't send reporters to all area hospitals and try to track down the information themselves. If papers relied on submissions they would be incomplete.1. Do state health departments permit such filings? Because it seems to me that if they did, we wouldn't have any illegal immigrants. Everyone would just go down to the health department and "file the paperwork" saying they were born here, or have their parents do it, or whatever. Sorry, that seems hihgly dubious.2. Do you know that these newspapers just reprint info given to them by health departments? Because most newspapers only print submissions, they don't take it upon themselves to reprint every filing at a government office. That's how local announcements have worked at every newspaper I've ever been aware of.It is really simple. Mom or grandma went down to the health department and filed the paperwork. Hawaii for decades have accepted such filings. These filings indicate he was born in Hawaii. The stae od Hawaii recognizes him as being born in Hawaii and certainly would provide an official COLB. Newpapers simply report what the health department provides them. The whole conspiracy comes down to one person filing a dalse report so their child or grandchild is eligible for benefits.What the heck, I'll bite
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Phil Elliott
Footballguy
This story really might have some legs.
No it does not. There are several possible alternatives. Maybe Obama was born on April 4th and not August 4th. Maybe mom phoned or telegraphed or mailed her mom about the birth and grandma took it upon herself to file for them. It is not the most likely scenario, but I have yet to see anyone sink this possibility. I still don't see anything that blows it out of the water.
Statorama
Footballguy
Whoa. So Obama just "happened" to be born in the state with the most lax reporting rules. Seems to be an awful lot of "coincidences" piling up in here.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
There certainly is, is the amount of #### being piled up by righties.
Shtaym Syek
Footballguy
Phil Elliott
Footballguy
I can't believe a long form certificate hasn't surfaced yet. You know these documents get misplaced some times.God bless you sir. If you're ever in town, beer's on me.
Their laws are their laws. You really didn't have to be born in Hawaii to be eligible for a birth certificate there. Their laws were extremely lax and still are despite some tightening of the rules because of pressure from the US....
Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
Try me. I have stated 100 times exactly what would satisfy me. It hasn't changed since day 1.
timschochet
Footballguy
Even if he was born in Hawaii, that only makes him a citizen of the Royal sovereign nation of Hawaii, which was stolen from Queen Liliokalani in the late 19th century and which legally does not belong to the United States (at least, according to the Hawaiian separatist movement, which has had it with all you haoles stealing their land.)
Perhaps Obama is neither a Christian nor a Muslim, but instead a secret worshipper of Pele, the goddess of volcanoes...
Perhaps Obama is neither a Christian nor a Muslim, but instead a secret worshipper of Pele, the goddess of volcanoes...
CrossEyed
Footballguy
I saw that video of Obama kicking the soccer ball around with those kids on his trip to Brazil. No way he worships Pele.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Still looking for Bronco Billy to demonstrate that while he was questioning by naivety for "believing that will all your little heart" that he actually had some kind of evidence that there was a check box to back up his authoritative assertion. To prove he wasn't just making crap up on the fly.You have a link to the 1961 formthat was available in Hawaii?Edited above.You just keep on believing that will all your little heart. Race was not a "fill-in-the-blank", it was a check box selection, just as it is on government forms today.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
A category which includes jon, so I wonder why he's upset about people being lumped in his group. With his position, I'd think he'd want more company, not push people back away from the fringe zone he's staked out for himself.'The Commish said:
mad sweeney
Footballguy
No, he doesn't. That's the greatness that is Wrong_Mx. He'll rail and rail about something the Left does while he's doing it in the exact same post. He's a poster child for self delusion.'matuski said:
mad sweeney
Footballguy
How long after he was born would his mom do this? Cuz if it was a day or two after he was born, the chances are pretty good that it happened in HI. Generally, moms are present at births.'jon_mx said:It is really simple. Mom or grandma went down to the health department and filed the paperwork. Hawaii for decades have accepted such filings. These filings indicate he was born in Hawaii. The stae od Hawaii recognizes him as being born in Hawaii and certainly would provide an official COLB. Newpapers simply report what the health department provides them. The whole conspiracy comes down to one person filing a dalse report so their child or grandchild is eligible for benefits.'TobiasFunke said:What the heck, I'll bite'jon_mx said:
Maybe Obama was born a few months earlier. Maybe she phoned or wrote home and grandma did it. I don't know what happened, but until the original document is released, it is not 100% conclusive. There is a very strong circumstantial case for a Hawaiian birth. But I want to see the basis for Hawaii's position, because Hawaii has a long tradition of granting residents birth certificates whether they were born there or not.How long after he was born would his mom do this? Cuz if it was a day or two after he was born, the chances are pretty good that it happened in HI. Generally, moms are present at births.'jon_mx said:It is really simple. Mom or grandma went down to the health department and filed the paperwork. Hawaii for decades have accepted such filings. These filings indicate he was born in Hawaii. The stae od Hawaii recognizes him as being born in Hawaii and certainly would provide an official COLB. Newpapers simply report what the health department provides them. The whole conspiracy comes down to one person filing a dalse report so their child or grandchild is eligible for benefits.'TobiasFunke said:What the heck, I'll bite'jon_mx said:
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Nah, this is an amateur conspiracy theory. There is not a Kennedy or a Bush to be found.If there ever were a more perfect use of that emoticon after reading what I've just read, I haven't seen it.
timschochet
Footballguy
You have stated this several times, though I've never heard of it anywhere else. Therefore, I have two questions:1. Do you have a link to any study or even cursory examination of how states release birth certificates, which would indicate that Hawaii is especially lax? 2. Do you have a link to any examples of persons who have a birth certificate from Hawaii despite the fact that they were not born there? In other words, are there any examples of this "long tradition"?TIAMaybe Obama was born a few months earlier. Maybe she phoned or wrote home and grandma did it. I don't know what happened, but until the original document is released, it is not 100% conclusive. There is a very strong circumstantial case for a Hawaiian birth. But I want to see the basis for Hawaii's position, because Hawaii has a long tradition of granting residents birth certificates whether they were born there or not.How long after he was born would his mom do this? Cuz if it was a day or two after he was born, the chances are pretty good that it happened in HI. Generally, moms are present at births.'jon_mx said:It is really simple. Mom or grandma went down to the health department and filed the paperwork. Hawaii for decades have accepted such filings. These filings indicate he was born in Hawaii. The stae od Hawaii recognizes him as being born in Hawaii and certainly would provide an official COLB. Newpapers simply report what the health department provides them. The whole conspiracy comes down to one person filing a dalse report so their child or grandchild is eligible for benefits.'TobiasFunke said:What the heck, I'll bite'jon_mx said:
What is crazy about one person filing a document claiming birth for their son or grandson? I am not even sure what the conspiracy is? Explain. I thought there had to be multiple people involved. I thought it had to be an evil plot. This is just one person filing a paper so their son or grandson can get state benefits.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
1. Just their laws which state so.You have stated this several times, though I've never heard of it anywhere else. Therefore, I have two questions:1. Do you have a link to any study or even cursory examination of how states release birth certificates, which would indicate that Hawaii is especially lax?Maybe Obama was born a few months earlier. Maybe she phoned or wrote home and grandma did it. I don't know what happened, but until the original document is released, it is not 100% conclusive. There is a very strong circumstantial case for a Hawaiian birth. But I want to see the basis for Hawaii's position, because Hawaii has a long tradition of granting residents birth certificates whether they were born there or not.How long after he was born would his mom do this? Cuz if it was a day or two after he was born, the chances are pretty good that it happened in HI. Generally, moms are present at births.'jon_mx said:It is really simple. Mom or grandma went down to the health department and filed the paperwork. Hawaii for decades have accepted such filings. These filings indicate he was born in Hawaii. The stae od Hawaii recognizes him as being born in Hawaii and certainly would provide an official COLB. Newpapers simply report what the health department provides them. The whole conspiracy comes down to one person filing a dalse report so their child or grandchild is eligible for benefits.'TobiasFunke said:What the heck, I'll bite'jon_mx said:
for him in the state but also two separate newspaper notices of his birth in the state.
2. Do you have a link to any examples of persons who have a birth certificate from Hawaii despite the fact that they were not born there? In other words, are there any examples of this "long tradition"?
TIA
2. Long tradition? How about Sun Yat-sen, heard of him?Under Hawaiian law, it is possible (both legally and illegally) for a person to have been born out of state, yet have a birth certificate on file in the Department of Health.
A. From Hawaii's official Department of Health, Vital Records webpage: "Amended certificates of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) a person born in a foreign country" (applies to adopted children).
B. A parent may register an in-state birth in lieu of certification by a hospital of birth under HRS 338-5.
C. Hawaiian law expressly provides for registration of out-of-state births under HRS 338-17.8. A foreign birth presumably would have been recorded by the American consular of the country of birth, and presumably that would be reflected on the Hawaiian birth certificate.
D. Hawaiian law, however, expressly acknowledges that its system is subject to error. See, for example, HRS 338-17.
E. Hawaiian law expressly provides for verification in lieu of certified copy of a birth certificate under HRS 338-14.3.
F. Even the Hawaii Department of Home Lands does not accept a certified copy of a birth certificate as conclusive evidence for its homestead program.
From its web site: "In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL."
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
I can't believe you went Sun Yat-Sen, Jon. So over 100 years ago a guy who is seeking political refugee status provides a forgery to Hawaii before it was a state and THAT's your example? This is shtick, right?
Unbelievable.
Unbelievable.
timschochet
Footballguy
I'll ask again, because you refused to answer the first time. Where did the 2 million in legal fees come from? Link?
I am not sure I buy the $2 million figure, but I don't think it is that relevant either. It is one of those often repeated numbers with no source that just becomes fact.
Mr. Retukes
Footballguy
Sun Yat-sen!!!!!!!
timschochet
Footballguy
Oh, there's a source all right. I just googled it. First there is a report from an online newspaper called the Tampa Bay Tribune which appears to be virulently anti-Obama. The source then reduces the amount to a million dollars, and then says the figure comes from a study launched by the "United States Justice Foundation". So I googled them- a 501 group closely affiliated with- you guessed it- WorldNetDaily.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
I love the subject titles in that website: "Rothchild", "Illuminati", "Soros". Scroll down and you get the Lyndon LaRouche ad.
Crazy isn't the idea of one person filing a document claiming birth for their son or grandson. Crazy is wanting SO BADLY for something to be true that one will do anything and everything they possibly can to exhaust their potential for finding said truth. And then when the truth they seek simply isn't there?! They rally/regroup with a war cry of "well, they haven't proven it's NOT true either."We both know there is a 99% chance that the definitive proof (either way) you are seeking was lost/discarded decades ago. You take the position that means Obama is lying and/or up to no good. The rest of us take that to mean that the records you are seeking were lost/discarded decades ago. Just like if you asked me to locate my original birth certificate, I couldn't do it. I have a passport, but I couldn't locate my original birth certificate before I got that passport approved before going to Japan...and then renewed before going to Italy. Does that mean I'm lying about ever having an "original" birth certificate, however? Am I up to some sinister plan to destroy the world?
Okay, crazy is a poor choice of words. Rather, it's a combination of hope, hatred, and/or some perverse love-child of the two. Kind of like if I tell you that unicorns are real. You ask me to produce proof. I provide 30 theories for where they live, where they've lived, why no unicorn remains have ever been found, why no photos/video of unicorns are available as "proof" that haven't been proven as fakes, et al. You continue to ask "where's the proof?!" and when I can't produce it and don't know how to prove it, I get the warm, fuzzy blanket of "you haven't proven unicorns AREN'T real either!" to protect my psyche.
Kind of like all the guys on this board who think I'm cuckoo for cocoa puffs because of my supposed experiences with ghosts and demons, eh?!
I know it's true because of what I believe and have experienced. Not a shadow of a doubt in my mind. You ask for proof. About the best I can do is try and describe experiences that don't seem to have explanation...experiences that my wife, daughters, neighbor, sister, niece, etc. have shared, which is about the equivalent (to you) of me producing some nice "CG" of a unicorn. I eventually give up, since you're not going to be convinced that ghosts/demons exist...and wrap myself in that warm, fuzzy blanket of "well, if he could walk a mile in my shoes, he might see things differently" (AKA go ahead and prove me wrong).Trust me, I get it. From both sides of the coin! Only Obama was born in Hawai'i...and ghosts/demons exist.
Unicorns? Show me proof...lol.
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