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The Birther Conspiracy Thread (4 Viewers)

bueno said:
Other than precedent, two things bother me about this.1. I believe last time a substantial number of foreign troops were on our soil not in POW camps was the battle of New Orleans. I for one, don't want foreign troops on American soil. I don't care if they are friendlies.2. The NLE 09 scenario will begin in the aftermath of a notional terrorist event outside of the United States, and exercise play will center on preventing subsequent efforts by the terrorists to enter the United States and carry out additional attacks. This scenario enables participating senior officials to focus on issues related to preventing terrorist events domestically and protecting U.S. critical infrastructure. I don't see this as something that foreign troops should be doing on American soil. Protecting the Homeland is the job of our military and our National Guards, not foreign troops. So why are we training them to do that? This is to test and validate our Homeland Security system. Not a job for which we need to be training foreign troops.
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:lmao: You should probably look into Red Flag exercises and the The School of the Americas (now known as Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation). Red Flag operates in Nevada and Alaska and the SOA has trained over 50,000 Latin American troops in the US, including some of Pinochet's officers, Manuel Noreiga, and the founders of Los Zetas.These programs have existed for decades. Since the inception of NATO, US and other NATO allies have operated joint exercise throughout the world and, believe it or not, the US and its territories. And let's not forget, we trained quite a few Cuban soldiers for the Bay of Pigs right here in the good old US of A.Adjust your foil hat accordingly.
 
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analog_hiss said:
bueno said:
Other than precedent, two things bother me about this.1. I believe last time a substantial number of foreign troops were on our soil not in POW camps was the battle of New Orleans. I for one, don't want foreign troops on American soil. I don't care if they are friendlies.2. The NLE 09 scenario will begin in the aftermath of a notional terrorist event outside of the United States, and exercise play will center on preventing subsequent efforts by the terrorists to enter the United States and carry out additional attacks. This scenario enables participating senior officials to focus on issues related to preventing terrorist events domestically and protecting U.S. critical infrastructure. I don't see this as something that foreign troops should be doing on American soil. Protecting the Homeland is the job of our military and our National Guards, not foreign troops. So why are we training them to do that? This is to test and validate our Homeland Security system. Not a job for which we need to be training foreign troops.
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:lmao: You should probably look into Red Flag exercises and the The School of the Americas (now known as Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation). Red Flag operates in Nevada and Alaska and the SOA has trained over 50,000 Latin American troops in the US, including some of Pinochet's officers, Manuel Noreiga, and the founders of Los Zetas.These programs have existed for decades. Since the inception of NATO, US and other NATO allies have operated joint exercise throughout the world and, believe it or not, the US and its territories. And let's not forget, we trained quite a few Cuban soldiers for the Bay of Pigs right here in the good old US of A.Adjust your foil hat accordingly.
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Don't like that either. Let us train them on their own ground to protect their own country. Why should they be participating in this mission?Your Bay of Pigs analogy doesn't quite fly because we weren't training Cuban troops, but we were training Cubans. Apples and oranges on that one.
 
bueno said:
Other than precedent, two things bother me about this.1. I believe last time a substantial number of foreign troops were on our soil not in POW camps was the battle of New Orleans. I for one, don't want foreign troops on American soil. I don't care if they are friendlies.2. The NLE 09 scenario will begin in the aftermath of a notional terrorist event outside of the United States, and exercise play will center on preventing subsequent efforts by the terrorists to enter the United States and carry out additional attacks. This scenario enables participating senior officials to focus on issues related to preventing terrorist events domestically and protecting U.S. critical infrastructure. I don't see this as something that foreign troops should be doing on American soil. Protecting the Homeland is the job of our military and our National Guards, not foreign troops. So why are we training them to do that? This is to test and validate our Homeland Security system. Not a job for which we need to be training foreign troops.
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Ok, it's late where I am and I'm more than a little buzzed right now so bear with me. I don't necessarily disagree with everyting you said but...1. If you don't want to see any foreign troops on American soil, don't go to any DoD/military training schools. We train them in a lot of stuff. Even basic stuff like HALO/HAHO. Hell, it's in the stated purpose of a lot schools like that. Publicly. And then there are larger scale, clandestine training missions. That shouldn't be a shocker. Just because it isn't in the news doesn't mean it didn't happen. This stuff isn't your basic Private Kinsington from south london, but higher level guys that need more specialization train in some American schools and on American terrain alongside our troops. I would want our SEAL teams to take advantage of a training mission in Mexico or Australia, if it provided some kind of terrain that they couldn't get here.2. I think the key word is "outside" the US and then preventing them from getting here. That's going to take coordination on a large scale. That's a bigger mission than the National Guard. And if we can share some anti-terrorism tactics with 3 of the 4 of or biggest allies who also have very real terrorist concerns (in the case of the UK probably moreso), I'm not that outraged.I may be missing something that makes this bad, but it sounds like an easy winner.
 
Mr. Pickles said:
KnowledgeReignsSupreme said:
Are there any mainstream conservative pundits pushing this?
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Rush is. Lou Dobbs, surprisingly, is all over this for some reason.
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It sounds to me more like Rush is upset that he is getting harassed in some audit in New York City. I know he said he refuses to broadcast them there now. I gotta think Rush is making some kind of joke here, like Rush has to produce far more paperwork in his audit than Obama does to prove he was born in the US. I can't imagine Rush is serious.
 
Eh I can't find any quote of Rush where he claims to believe in this. He cracked a joke. He talked about it a couple times. But I don't see him buying into it.

 
kaa said:
Why does this thread have 4 pages?
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The Army's handing of Majoe Cook and the State of Hawaii saying that original certificate was discarded in 2001 after having issued a statement in November 2008 saying that they had it on file has certainly fueled the specualation that they are hiding something.When they go to so much time and trouble to bury something, rather than dispelling of it in 5 minutes, people will be suspicious - especially if they already don't like the guy.Now that the original paper copy is "discarded" supposedly, any microfiche they that can be produced will always be suspect to some. The fact that they did this so sloppily, waiting almost two years to say "oh by the way, the origial is discarded" in contradiction to their previous statement means that this thing will now never go away. Like Fla 2000 and Ohio 2008 this will be added to the lore...(and CNN's crack reporters, of course, bought the state line unskeptically, in spite of the fact that it was contrdictory to their previous official statement.)
 
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Orange Whip said:
with Clinton's affair, we're talking about issues that are just not nearly as significant.
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Whoa there. Clinton really did commit perjury. He really did lose his law license. Perjury is a felony and comes with a maximum fine of 5 years in prison. I can guarantee you that, when it came out that he committed perjury, everyone in Washington was convinced he had to resign. It was a total miscarriage of justice he was allowed to complete his second term. The man is a total disgrace.
 
Mr. Pickles said:
kaa said:
Mr. Pickles said:
kaa said:
I can't imagine Rush is serious.
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Rush isn't serious about anything.
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He's an entertainer. He jokes around a lot about a lot of things. He closer to Johnny Carson than Tom Brokaw. I mean he even fills his show with SNL-style skits. That's why I'm highly skeptical.
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Right, that's why I'm skeptical about anything that comes out of his overfed maw.
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He's also an informed pundit. He really does have excellent connections in and around Capitol Hill. He can be an authority on the bureaucracy. When he drills down into the politics in the House or Senate, he can be pretty good. So he's not completely Carson, either.
 
Am I interested in Rush's opinions on Global Warming? No. That's shtick. Am I interested in hearing him break down the legislative process of a budget battle, or perhaps a major bill being tabled in committee? Absolutely, because he's very well-connected in that regard and will bring useful insight.

 
kaa said:
Am I interested in Rush's opinions on Global Warming? No. That's shtick. Am I interested in hearing him break down the legislative process of a budget battle, or perhaps a major bill being tabled in committee? Absolutely, because he's very well-connected in that regard and will bring useful insight.
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Thanks for the update, Woz.
 
Mr. Pickles said:
kaa said:
Mr. Pickles said:
kaa said:
I can't imagine Rush is serious.
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Rush isn't serious about anything.
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He's an entertainer. He jokes around a lot about a lot of things. He closer to Johnny Carson than Tom Brokaw. I mean he even fills his show with SNL-style skits. That's why I'm highly skeptical.
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Right, that's why I'm skeptical about anything that comes out of his overfed maw.
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he's like the guy at the bar you can jaw politics with. He's serious about where he stands on the issues, but some of what he says is fishing and some of it is schtick. He made a reference to the fact that Obama has yet to prove natural born citizanship.
 
kaa said:
Orange Whip said:
with Clinton's affair, we're talking about issues that are just not nearly as significant.
Click to expand...
Whoa there. Clinton really did commit perjury. He really did lose his law license. Perjury is a felony and comes with a maximum fine of 5 years in prison. I can guarantee you that, when it came out that he committed perjury, everyone in Washington was convinced he had to resign. It was a total miscarriage of justice he was allowed to complete his second term. The man is a total disgrace.
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Obviously, this is not true.Personally, I think that what happened to Clinton was just punishment: he was impeached, only the 2nd president in history to be impeached, and his record is forever marred. He was not removed from office, and I believe that would have been excessive.

Orange Whip, however is wrong in attempting to distinguish between right-wing conspiracies like the Birthers, and left wing conspiracies like the "stolen elections" in 2000 and 2004. These issues have quite a bit in common. If you truly believe, OW, that the two Bush elections were theft, you are essentially a kindred spirit with the Birthers, IMO. Essentially what you are saying is that powerful elite forces can subvert the public will and law in order to make what they want happen. This is the theme of all political conspiracy theories, whether from the left or the right.

 
With regard to Rush, I was actually hoping he'd be more entertaining right about now. He was at his best during the Clinton years: somewhat ridiculous, but penetrating in criticism, and actually quite funny in spots, especially when he would produce songs about the Clintons. Rush was awful to listen to during the Bush years, as he was mostly in a defensive position. With Obama, he's able to go on the attack again, so I was hoping he would be fun to listen to again. But he's been too serious. The mocking tone of the Clinton years is missing.

 
timschochet said:
kaa said:
Orange Whip said:
with Clinton's affair, we're talking about issues that are just not nearly as significant.
Click to expand...
Whoa there. Clinton really did commit perjury. He really did lose his law license. Perjury is a felony and comes with a maximum fine of 5 years in prison. I can guarantee you that, when it came out that he committed perjury, everyone in Washington was convinced he had to resign. It was a total miscarriage of justice he was allowed to complete his second term. The man is a total disgrace.
Click to expand...
Obviously, this is not true.Personally, I think that what happened to Clinton was just punishment: he was impeached, only the 2nd president in history to be impeached, and his record is forever marred. He was not removed from office, and I believe that would have been excessive.

Orange Whip, however is wrong in attempting to distinguish between right-wing conspiracies like the Birthers, and left wing conspiracies like the "stolen elections" in 2000 and 2004. These issues have quite a bit in common. If you truly believe, OW, that the two Bush elections were theft, you are essentially a kindred spirit with the Birthers, IMO. Essentially what you are saying is that powerful elite forces can subvert the public will and law in order to make what they want happen. This is the theme of all political conspiracy theories, whether from the left or the right.
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I've heard it admitted a few times before by liberal pundits on CNN. I overheard Carville say a couple months ago that everyone was convinced Clinton was done when the perjury came to light.
 
not to hijack, but if Clinton had resigned, I think Gore wins the election by 5 points and Florida by thousand of votes

 
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timschochet said:
Obviously, this is not true.Personally, I think that what happened to Clinton was just punishment: he was impeached, only the 2nd president in history to be impeached, and his record is forever marred. He was not removed from office, and I believe that would have been excessive.
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Clinton not resigning nor being removed from office was a major factor in my life. I voted for Clinton twice. I was a democrat. But now, the democrat party is forever tarnished. I probably would have left the democratic party eventually, but I can never respect a party that is willing to put itself so far above the law. It was absolutely despicable.
 
Sam Quentin said:
not to hijack, but if Clinton had resigned, I think Gore wins the election by 5 points and Florida by thousand of votes
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I would rather Gore win the 2000 election than Clinton complete his second term. Just out of respect for the law.
 
I still think it's funny that what qualifies as proof of Obama's US Birth Certificate is some Hawaiian doctor saying "Yeah, I seen it"

 
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