The Birther Conspiracy Thread (4 Viewers)

[Road Dogg]

wait

so millions of people saw George Bush/Bill Clinton/Ronald Reagan being born in the United States, and that is why he did not have to produce a birth certificate?

as for anecdotal evidence:

the official birth certificate that he would have to produce to, for example, get a passprt HAS been produced

officials who have examined the complete documentation have said yes, he was born in hawaii (including I believe a republican governor)

and there was an announcement of his birth in the local paper

If there was any reason to believe that any of those mothers were outside the country close to the time of birth, it would raise the issue. But even in those cases, since both parents were US citizens, the issue would be a bit different. Yes, getting a passport supports that Obama is a US Citizen, but different than being a natural born citizen. The official statement from Hawaii is one of many carefully chosen parsed sentences. The governor makes claims about that statement which just aren't true, such as identifying the hospital which has never been done. The governor has never claimed to seen anything, just refers to the official statements. The birth announcement proves something was filed with the state, but does not prove it was anything official from a hospital.

how would we know?IF this is critical information why not make everyone prove it?

Even you don't really think he as born abroad

and the point is not that he got a passport, but that the documentation he has produced is considered official

I am not denying the document provided is official. I firmly believe that the state of Hawaii officially recognizes Obama as a citizen who was born in Hawaii. Legally, there is nothing that is going to happen here that will ever impact Obama's presidency. But the whole story has not been told. I just want to know what the state of Hawaii is basing their position on. There has to be some recorded document in their achieve which shows this. The more effort that is made to cover it up, the more curious I get. There are interesting possibilities which are not all that far-fetched.

quite frankly, you are not entitled to more than thatwanting to see more documentation to dig up dirt on him is not your right, privacy laws protect him

you can think he should volunteer it, but he has no obligation

 

[jon_mx]

Here is the Andrew Sullivan piece from last year:A naive person might believe that Barack Hussein Obama was born, as he has long said he was, in Hawaii to a young American mother and a distant father from Kenya. There are notices in two local papers and the certification of birth is filed in the state of Hawaii’s records. An independent body — FactCheck.org — part of the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania, asked to see a copy of the original during last year’s campaign. FactCheck is non-partisan and takes all sorts of politicians’ claims to task. Here’s its take on Obama’s birth certificate: “FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving US citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. . . Our conclusion: Obama was born in the USA just as he has always said.”

FactCheck does good work, but they do have their biases. Andrew Sullivan has become a hack. And saying that FactCheck examined 'the original birth certificate' is just simply false. Not much reason to go on.

 

[jon_mx]

I am not denying the document provided is official. I firmly believe that the state of Hawaii officially recognizes Obama as a citizen who was born in Hawaii. Legally, there is nothing that is going to happen here that will ever impact Obama's presidency. But the whole story has not been told. I just want to know what the state of Hawaii is basing their position on. There has to be some recorded document in their achieve which shows this. The more effort that is made to cover it up, the more curious I get. There are interesting possibilities which are not all that far-fetched.

quite frankly, you are not entitled to more than thatwanting to see more documentation to dig up dirt on him is not your right, privacy laws protect him

you can think he should volunteer it, but he has no obligation

Being a natural born citizen is a legal issue that is not clearly defined. Having all facts in this case would be interesting. With the state of Hawaii protecting him, unless the federal government compels them, nothing will happen. I think there are facts which would raise some legal questions whether Obama is technically a natural born citizen. But no one at the federal government level has any interest in pursuing, so it will die. It is only an interesting intellectual topic at this point. But practically, no one is going to overturn an election on some technicality.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Here is the Andrew Sullivan piece from last year:

A naive person might believe that Barack Hussein Obama was born, as he has long said he was, in Hawaii to a young American mother and a distant father from Kenya. There are notices in two local papers and the certification of birth is filed in the state of Hawaii’s records.

An independent body — FactCheck.org — part of the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania, asked to see a copy of the original during last year’s campaign. FactCheck is non-partisan and takes all sorts of politicians’ claims to task. Here’s its take on Obama’s birth certificate: “FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving US citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. . . Our conclusion: Obama was born in the USA just as he has always said.”

FactCheck does good work, but they do have their biases. Andrew Sullivan has become a hack. And saying that FactCheck examined 'the original birth certificate' is just simply false. Not much reason to go on.

And you know this because ...

 

[jon_mx]

2) The only one who appears to be obsessed with the race angle is you.

Really?If I google the words "Birther" and "racism" I get literally dozens of articles, statements, opinion pieces about how the Birther movement is based in racism. Some are by liberals. Some are by conservatives, such as Michael Medved. Some are by non-partisan political groups like Politico, and by independent political thinkers like Andrew Sullivan. This is not an idea that I came up with. Its a series of reasonable arguments made by all sorts of thoughtful people that I happen to agree with.

I'm referring to people still involved in this thread, i.e., the people you are attempting to poll.

There are people besides me who think race is an issue, even in this thread.

You and Mad Sweeney? If I said the sky was blue, he would call me a racist.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

Unless jon_mx and others of his ilk goes to the Hawaiian hospital where Obama was born in their crazy tea bag time machine, he'll never believe Obama was born in one of the 50 states.

Now that good christian white man John McCain, that's not an issue at all.

Shine on you crazy diamonds

 

[jon_mx]

And you know this because ...

FactCheck examined the Certificate of Live Birth which differs from the original Birth Certificate. I don't disagree that the COLB is legitimate, but don't try to pass that off as the original Birth Certificate. Trying to deflect and confuse the issue, IMHO.

 

[Statorama]

FactCheck is an arm of the Obama Administration. There's a reason why they're one of the few that's supposedly "seen it".

 

[Statorama]

Unless jon_mx and others of his ilk goes to the Hawaiian hospital where Obama was born in their crazy tea bag time machine, he'll never believe Obama was born in one of the 50 states.Now that good christian white man John McCain, that's not an issue at all.Shine on you crazy diamonds

Wait. Hawaii is one of the 50 states???Oh man, this puts a big hole in my argument.

 

[TobiasFunke]

And you know this because ...

FactCheck examined the Certificate of Live Birth which differs from the original Birth Certificate. I don't disagree that the COLB is legitimate, but don't try to pass that off as the original Birth Certificate. Trying to deflect and confuse the issue, IMHO.

And you know this because ...

 

[Road Dogg]

I am not denying the document provided is official. I firmly believe that the state of Hawaii officially recognizes Obama as a citizen who was born in Hawaii. Legally, there is nothing that is going to happen here that will ever impact Obama's presidency. But the whole story has not been told. I just want to know what the state of Hawaii is basing their position on. There has to be some recorded document in their achieve which shows this. The more effort that is made to cover it up, the more curious I get. There are interesting possibilities which are not all that far-fetched.

quite frankly, you are not entitled to more than thatwanting to see more documentation to dig up dirt on him is not your right, privacy laws protect him

you can think he should volunteer it, but he has no obligation

Being a natural born citizen is a legal issue that is not clearly defined. Having all facts in this case would be interesting. With the state of Hawaii protecting him, unless the federal government compels them, nothing will happen. I think there are facts which would raise some legal questions whether Obama is technically a natural born citizen. But no one at the federal government level has any interest in pursuing, so it will die. It is only an interesting intellectual topic at this point. But practically, no one is going to overturn an election on some technicality.

you said they said he was born therethat's enough

 

[jon_mx]

Unless jon_mx and others of his ilk goes to the Hawaiian hospital where Obama was born in their crazy tea bag time machine, he'll never believe Obama was born in one of the 50 states.

Now that good christian white man John McCain, that's not an issue at all.

Shine on you crazy diamonds

Which hospital would that be? Seriously, we don't know. Except for a recent misstatement by the governor who misquoted the official statement, there has never been anything which identifies the hospital. I don't need a time machine, just whatever document Hawaii has in their archives. Nothing crazy about that.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

And you know this because ...

FactCheck examined the Certificate of Live Birth which differs from the original Birth Certificate. I don't disagree that the COLB is legitimate, but don't try to pass that off as the original Birth Certificate. Trying to deflect and confuse the issue, IMHO.

I honestly do not understand why the "Certificate of Live Birth" which is what Hawaii uses and issues as its birth records is not valid or not enough for people. Do you think Hawaii just randomly gives these out to people or something? What you think is a "Birth Certificate" is not uniform throughout the 50 states. If what Hawaii does is not good enough for you, that's not Obama's or Hawaii's problem or fault.

 

[jon_mx]

you said they said he was born therethat's enough

The state legally recognizes he was born there. If I were betting, I would say the only document on record is something that was submitted by relatives. The state of Hawaii accepts that. Factually he may or may not be a natural born citizen. Legally, there is nothing that is going to happen. It will just be a historical footnote whatever is discovered.

 

[Road Dogg]

And you know this because ...

FactCheck examined the Certificate of Live Birth which differs from the original Birth Certificate. I don't disagree that the COLB is legitimate, but don't try to pass that off as the original Birth Certificate. Trying to deflect and confuse the issue, IMHO.

I honestly do not understand why the "Certificate of Live Birth" which is what Hawaii uses and issues as its birth records is not valid or not enough for people. Do you think Hawaii just randomly gives these out to people or something? What you think is a "Birth Certificate" is not uniform throughout the 50 states. If what Hawaii does is not good enough for you, that's not Obama's or Hawaii's problem or fault.

they want to trample on states rights that is why

 

[Road Dogg]

you said they said he was born there

that's enough

The state legally recognizes he was born there. If I were betting, I would say the only document on record is something that was submitted by relatives. The state of Hawaii accepts that. Factually he may or may not be a natural born citizen. Legally, there is nothing that is going to happen. It will just be a historical footnote whatever is discovered.

that's all you need, that's all you get.

If you want the federal government to take over the issuing of birth certificates feel free to argue for it, for now it is one of the few rights you have not stolen from the states.

 

[jon_mx]

And you know this because ...

FactCheck examined the Certificate of Live Birth which differs from the original Birth Certificate. I don't disagree that the COLB is legitimate, but don't try to pass that off as the original Birth Certificate. Trying to deflect and confuse the issue, IMHO.

I honestly do not understand why the "Certificate of Live Birth" which is what Hawaii uses and issues as its birth records is not valid or not enough for people. Do you think Hawaii just randomly gives these out to people or something? What you think is a "Birth Certificate" is not uniform throughout the 50 states. If what Hawaii does is not good enough for you, that's not Obama's or Hawaii's problem or fault.

I really don't think there exists a document from a hospital that certifies Obama was born there. My opinion is something was filed by a relative and that was accepted by Hawaii as fact. Does it make a difference, probably not. It just raises factual questions about what the real circumstances around his birth was.

 

[timschochet]

I really don't think there exists a document from a hospital that certifies Obama was born there. My opinion is something was filed by a relative and that was accepted by Hawaii as fact. Does it make a difference, probably not. It just raises factual questions about what the real circumstances around his birth was.

According to Barack Obama himself, being interviewed November 4, 2008: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/11/02/Sen...33901225647000/

He was born at Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women and Children* in Honolulu, HI.

*The name of the hospital was corrected in the referenced article after originally stating that the hospital was the Queen's Medical Center.

 

[randall146]

I'm actually not convinced he was 35 when elected either.

:MandatoryBoneScans:

 

[timschochet]

I'm actually not convinced he was 35 when elected either. :MandatoryBoneScans:

When he got elected, I thought to myself: this guy looks like he's about 30 years old.When I saw him the other day, I thought to myself: this guy looks like he's about 60 years old.

 

[bueno]

This may have been discussed many pages ago, but does anyone know off hand who was the most recent serious presidential candidate (besides Obama) that had at least 1 parent that was not an American citizen?

I don't know who it was, but I know that Chester A. Arthur had a non-American parent, as well as many questions about his actual birthplace. He was also attacked by political enemies making unfounded accusations regarding his "actual" birthplace and eligibility for the presidency back in the 1800s. I think it's kind of nice to know that muckraking idiots are nothing new to American politics.

No quite the question asked, but George Romney was born in Mexico. John McCain was born in Panama Canal military base. Barry Goldwater was born in the Arizona territory.

This governemnt website lists documents that are required for primary proff of citizenship.Documents serving as primary evidence of U.S. citizenship are:

•Previously issued, undamaged US passport

•Certified birth certificate issued by the city, county or state of birth

•Consular Report of Birth (of U.S. citizen) Abroad or Certification of Birth

•Naturalization Certificate

•Certificate of Citizenship

As Obama did provide a Certification of Birth, he technically has provided evidence of US citizenship, but not necessarily of natural born US citizenship.

Interesting enough, the FEC Form 02 does not require proof of citizenship to file to run for office.

I also found this explanation:

1. What are the qualifications to be president? How old must you be? [eligibility, requirements, minimum age]

Reply: It is found in the Constitution of the United States, Article II, Section 1, Clause 5:

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

2. What does it mean in the Constitution when it says "natural born Citizen?"

From Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition: "Natural born citizen. Persons who are born within the jurisdiction of a national government, i.e. in its territorial limits, or those born of citizens temporarily residing abroad."

3. I am in the U.S. Army, a natural born citizen, and my wife is a U.S. Citizen, natural born. If my son is born in Germany (Military hospital or not), and has a U.S. Consular Report of Birth Abroad, and a German birth certificate can he become President of the United States?

Yes, since your son was born of citizens temporarily residing abroad, as in the military service, then he may become eligible to be president. Of course he must still "have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

Two cases in point: (1) George Romney of Michigan who ran for president in 1968. Mr. Romney was born in a Mormon community in Chihuahua, Mexico. His parents were U.S. citizens so he was a natural born citizen. (2) John McCain of Arizona was a candidate in 2000. McCain was born in Panama where his father was stationed in the service, so he would also be "natural born."

Is Obama natural born? Yeah, most likely. But I believe we should hold our presidents and those seeking office to a higher standard. I thought liberals believed that too. Guess I was wrong.

 

[randall146]

But I believe we should hold our presidents and those seeking office to a higher standard.

I don't understand what you mean in relation to your post. "Higher standard" of what? Where they were born?

 

[jon_mx]

But I believe we should hold our presidents and those seeking office to a higher standard.

I don't understand what you mean in relation to your post. "Higher standard" of what? Where they were born?

Yeah, like a manger or something.

 

[bueno]

But as far as I can tell, there is no formal procedure in place to verify that the requirements have been. In most instances, it is patently obvious that the requirements have been met, so there's no issue or need for a formal verification procedure.* In a few instances, however, there has been some question as to whether the eligibility requirements have been met (e.g., Arthur, Obama, McCain), and that's when questions have arisen. Indeed, the fact that the questions exist and linger is an indication that there is no formal evrification procedure. If one existed, the matter would have been resolved long ago.* My local basketball league is only open to males**. That is a requirement, not a guideline. But when I signed up, I wasn't asked to pull out my #### to prove it.

** I don't actually play in a local basketball league. This example was for illustrative purposes only.

And therein lies the problem. How we went 200+ years without this process and allowed the Parties to do the vetting is beyond my comprehension. You think we would have put a procedure in place after Arthur.

 

[MasterofOrion]

My daughter is living in Argentina. She needs to be Authenticated by our State Department to open bank accounts ect...

Part of the process is to send a valid birth certificate to the State Department to be authenticated. Suppling a valid birth certificate is no big deal for most people. If it is a big deal then that raises red flags.

 

[Road Dogg]

This may have been discussed many pages ago, but does anyone know off hand who was the most recent serious presidential candidate (besides Obama) that had at least 1 parent that was not an American citizen?

I don't know who it was, but I know that Chester A. Arthur had a non-American parent, as well as many questions about his actual birthplace. He was also attacked by political enemies making unfounded accusations regarding his "actual" birthplace and eligibility for the presidency back in the 1800s. I think it's kind of nice to know that muckraking idiots are nothing new to American politics.

No quite the question asked, but George Romney was born in Mexico. John McCain was born in Panama Canal military base. Barry Goldwater was born in the Arizona territory.

This governemnt website lists documents that are required for primary proff of citizenship.Documents serving as primary evidence of U.S. citizenship are:

•Previously issued, undamaged US passport

•Certified birth certificate issued by the city, county or state of birth

•Consular Report of Birth (of U.S. citizen) Abroad or Certification of Birth

•Naturalization Certificate

•Certificate of Citizenship

As Obama did provide a Certification of Birth, he technically has provided evidence of US citizenship, but not necessarily of natural born US citizenship.

Interesting enough, the FEC Form 02 does not require proof of citizenship to file to run for office.

I also found this explanation:

1. What are the qualifications to be president? How old must you be? [eligibility, requirements, minimum age]

Reply: It is found in the Constitution of the United States, Article II, Section 1, Clause 5:

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

2. What does it mean in the Constitution when it says "natural born Citizen?"

From Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition: "Natural born citizen. Persons who are born within the jurisdiction of a national government, i.e. in its territorial limits, or those born of citizens temporarily residing abroad."

3. I am in the U.S. Army, a natural born citizen, and my wife is a U.S. Citizen, natural born. If my son is born in Germany (Military hospital or not), and has a U.S. Consular Report of Birth Abroad, and a German birth certificate can he become President of the United States?

Yes, since your son was born of citizens temporarily residing abroad, as in the military service, then he may become eligible to be president. Of course he must still "have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

Two cases in point: (1) George Romney of Michigan who ran for president in 1968. Mr. Romney was born in a Mormon community in Chihuahua, Mexico. His parents were U.S. citizens so he was a natural born citizen. (2) John McCain of Arizona was a candidate in 2000. McCain was born in Panama where his father was stationed in the service, so he would also be "natural born."

Is Obama natural born? Yeah, most likely. But I believe we should hold our presidents and those seeking office to a higher standard. I thought liberals believed that too. Guess I was wrong.

The state of hawaii has said he was born there, why do you hate states rights? Do you distrust all states, or just Hawaii?

 

[Dr. Awesome]

And you know this because ...

FactCheck examined the Certificate of Live Birth which differs from the original Birth Certificate. I don't disagree that the COLB is legitimate, but don't try to pass that off as the original Birth Certificate. Trying to deflect and confuse the issue, IMHO.

And you know this because ...

So some website has allegedly seen it. Big deal. If Obama can show the birth certificate to a website why can't he show it to those who voted him into office?

 

[Yankee23Fan]

2) The only one who appears to be obsessed with the race angle is you.

Really?If I google the words "Birther" and "racism" I get literally dozens of articles, statements, opinion pieces about how the Birther movement is based in racism. Some are by liberals. Some are by conservatives, such as Michael Medved. Some are by non-partisan political groups like Politico, and by independent political thinkers like Andrew Sullivan. This is not an idea that I came up with. Its a series of reasonable arguments made by all sorts of thoughtful people that I happen to agree with.

The problem is that it's your 'go-to' move for every topics that you can fit it into. Someone could bump at least 20 of your topics where you go right there like Roger Rabbit through the wall.

 

[bueno]

But I believe we should hold our presidents and those seeking office to a higher standard.

I don't understand what you mean in relation to your post. "Higher standard" of what? Where they were born?

Lead should be so dense. Higher standard of proof, of course.

 

[bueno]

I don't know who it was, but I know that Chester A. Arthur had a non-American parent, as well as many questions about his actual birthplace. He was also attacked by political enemies making unfounded accusations regarding his "actual" birthplace and eligibility for the presidency back in the 1800s. I think it's kind of nice to know that muckraking idiots are nothing new to American politics.

No quite the question asked, but George Romney was born in Mexico. John McCain was born in Panama Canal military base. Barry Goldwater was born in the Arizona territory.

This governemnt website lists documents that are required for primary proff of citizenship.

Documents serving as primary evidence of U.S. citizenship are:

•Previously issued, undamaged US passport

•Certified birth certificate issued by the city, county or state of birth

•Consular Report of Birth (of U.S. citizen) Abroad or Certification of Birth

•Naturalization Certificate

•Certificate of Citizenship

As Obama did provide a Certification of Birth, he technically has provided evidence of US citizenship, but not necessarily of natural born US citizenship.

Interesting enough, the FEC Form 02 does not require proof of citizenship to file to run for office.

I also found this explanation:

1. What are the qualifications to be president? How old must you be? [eligibility, requirements, minimum age]

Reply: It is found in the Constitution of the United States, Article II, Section 1, Clause 5:

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

2. What does it mean in the Constitution when it says "natural born Citizen?"

From Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition: "Natural born citizen. Persons who are born within the jurisdiction of a national government, i.e. in its territorial limits, or those born of citizens temporarily residing abroad."

3. I am in the U.S. Army, a natural born citizen, and my wife is a U.S. Citizen, natural born. If my son is born in Germany (Military hospital or not), and has a U.S. Consular Report of Birth Abroad, and a German birth certificate can he become President of the United States?

Yes, since your son was born of citizens temporarily residing abroad, as in the military service, then he may become eligible to be president. Of course he must still "have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

Two cases in point: (1) George Romney of Michigan who ran for president in 1968. Mr. Romney was born in a Mormon community in Chihuahua, Mexico. His parents were U.S. citizens so he was a natural born citizen. (2) John McCain of Arizona was a candidate in 2000. McCain was born in Panama where his father was stationed in the service, so he would also be "natural born."

Is Obama natural born? Yeah, most likely. But I believe we should hold our presidents and those seeking office to a higher standard. I thought liberals believed that too. Guess I was wrong.

The state of hawaii has said he was born there, why do you hate states rights? Do you distrust all states, or just Hawaii?

The word of the State of Hawaii is not relevant. What is relevant is what constitutes primary proof of citizenship.

As to distrusting states, I will admit that I dislike Hawaii for multiple rerasons, even while liking the guy from Hawaii that my daughter is living with. Honolulu sucks, IMO. Maui is tolerable - barely. The active volcano is pretty cool though. I hope I never have to go back there.

 

[mad sweeney]

And his opponents are... the GOP! As mentioned before, his political opponents within his own party in the Primary didn't raise it, so it's most definitely a GOP issue.

Yes they did. The issue was originally raised by Hillary supporters. A blog called texasdarlin was started by a democrat and lots of people at the DailyKos have questioned the authenticity of the document that was released. It is all politics. Not race. Not GOP specific. I provide facts, you provide nothing but empty accusations.

A blog from a supporter is nowhere near the same as Hillary's camp bringing it up. HTHBTW, you and facts are like dinosaurs and cavemen. Only a select, deluded few believe they actually co-exist.

 

[mad sweeney]

There has yet to be a signed document produced which indicates the exact details of the birth, yet is supposedly still exists.

Did McCain produce a signed document indicating the exact details of his birth?

No, and there was a lot of internet chatter about that too at leftwing websites. (I suppose that is a strong indication that the issue is largely driven by hatred of white people among Democrats?) McCain should release whatever records he has. I see no problem with demanding proof of a candidate. There is certainly nothing wacky about asking for proof that a person meets the requirements for being President.

Which he did.

 

[shader]

This one controversy that a lot of people waste a lot of time on. How ridiculous.

 

[Fennis]

This one controversy that a lot of people waste a lot of time on. How ridiculous.

we will thank you to leave this thread then. Good day, sir.

 

[bueno]

This one controversy that a lot of people waste a lot of time on. How ridiculous.

Hey, it's a fun food fight.

 

[TobiasFunke]

And you know this because ...

FactCheck examined the Certificate of Live Birth which differs from the original Birth Certificate. I don't disagree that the COLB is legitimate, but don't try to pass that off as the original Birth Certificate. Trying to deflect and confuse the issue, IMHO.

And you know this because ...

So some website has allegedly seen it. Big deal. If Obama can show the birth certificate to a website why can't he show it to those who voted him into office?

I don't care because I think it's a non-issue to begin with, although I do think it's one of the best sources of political comedy I've seen in years. I was simply asking how jon_mx had such intimate knowledge of exactly what FactCheck had or hadn't done.

 

[shader]

This one controversy that a lot of people waste a lot of time on. How ridiculous.

we will thank you to leave this thread then. Good day, sir.

I will. I just can't believe that there are people that seem to devote their lives to trying to prove that Obama was technically not born in the US. Boggles the mind. I'll spend the next 20 seconds thinking about it, then go back to the movie thread.

 

[Fennis]

This one controversy that a lot of people waste a lot of time on. How ridiculous.

we will thank you to leave this thread then. Good day, sir.

I will. I just can't believe that there are people that seem to devote their lives to trying to prove that Obama was technically not born in the US. Boggles the mind. I'll spend the next 20 seconds thinking about it, then go back to the movie thread.

I said Good Day!

 

[mad sweeney]

Here is the Andrew Sullivan piece from last year:

A naive person might believe that Barack Hussein Obama was born, as he has long said he was, in Hawaii to a young American mother and a distant father from Kenya. There are notices in two local papers and the certification of birth is filed in the state of Hawaii’s records.

An independent body — FactCheck.org — part of the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania, asked to see a copy of the original during last year’s campaign. FactCheck is non-partisan and takes all sorts of politicians’ claims to task. Here’s its take on Obama’s birth certificate: “FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving US citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. . . Our conclusion: Obama was born in the USA just as he has always said.”

FactCheck does good work, but they do have their biases. Andrew Sullivan has become a hack. And saying that FactCheck examined 'the original birth certificate' is just simply false. Not much reason to go on.

Do you have proof of this, Mr. I Bring Facts?So factcheck, the state of Hawaii, the democratic Party, the Supreme Court and Congress and countless others are all in on this mission to cover up your perceived irregularities in Obama's birth and let him become President without actually vetting him to their legal satisfaction. And, you want (or seem to want) the Feds to override Hawaii's State Rights to prove to birthers like you what they've already concluded to be true? And i'm sure that since this is a political thing, not a GOP thing, you were spearheading the efforts to uncover Bush's missing "military" records. And I'm sure you held Bush's military records to the same standard that you held Kerry's too, you know, since this isn't a GOP thing.

 

[mad sweeney]

2) The only one who appears to be obsessed with the race angle is you.

Really?If I google the words "Birther" and "racism" I get literally dozens of articles, statements, opinion pieces about how the Birther movement is based in racism. Some are by liberals. Some are by conservatives, such as Michael Medved. Some are by non-partisan political groups like Politico, and by independent political thinkers like Andrew Sullivan. This is not an idea that I came up with. Its a series of reasonable arguments made by all sorts of thoughtful people that I happen to agree with.

I'm referring to people still involved in this thread, i.e., the people you are attempting to poll.

There are people besides me who think race is an issue, even in this thread.

You and Mad Sweeney? If I said the sky was blue, he would call me a racist.

You're awful with facts. I said that I don't believe the birther issue is racially motivated and in fact have been arguing that it's GOP motivated. So, now who's flinging about groundless accusations? You're a real trip jonny.

 

[timschochet]

2) The only one who appears to be obsessed with the race angle is you.

Really?If I google the words "Birther" and "racism" I get literally dozens of articles, statements, opinion pieces about how the Birther movement is based in racism. Some are by liberals. Some are by conservatives, such as Michael Medved. Some are by non-partisan political groups like Politico, and by independent political thinkers like Andrew Sullivan. This is not an idea that I came up with. Its a series of reasonable arguments made by all sorts of thoughtful people that I happen to agree with.

The problem is that it's your 'go-to' move for every topics that you can fit it into. Someone could bump at least 20 of your topics where you go right there like Roger Rabbit through the wall.

20 topics is a slight exaggeration. And you're ignoring the fact that, if you look up my arguments regarding gay marriage, you will discover that I spent most of my time making the point that those opposed to it are not necessarily anti-gay. I have also defended those who are anti-Zionist as not being anti-Semitic, and I will continue to do so. So no, I don't think I am willing to cry racism at every opportunity.THIS situation seems pretty clear to me, though.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

2) The only one who appears to be obsessed with the race angle is you.

Really?If I google the words "Birther" and "racism" I get literally dozens of articles, statements, opinion pieces about how the Birther movement is based in racism. Some are by liberals. Some are by conservatives, such as Michael Medved. Some are by non-partisan political groups like Politico, and by independent political thinkers like Andrew Sullivan. This is not an idea that I came up with. Its a series of reasonable arguments made by all sorts of thoughtful people that I happen to agree with.

The problem is that it's your 'go-to' move for every topics that you can fit it into. Someone could bump at least 20 of your topics where you go right there like Roger Rabbit through the wall.

20 topics is a slight exaggeration. And you're ignoring the fact that, if you look up my arguments regarding gay marriage, you will discover that I spent most of my time making the point that those opposed to it are not necessarily anti-gay. I have also defended those who are anti-Zionist as not being anti-Semitic, and I will continue to do so. So no, I don't think I am willing to cry racism at every opportunity.THIS situation seems pretty clear to me, though.

And on and on you go. I'm not saying that they are really bigots or really racist or really evil, but it's definately a part of their opposition to my opinion. You know, wink wink, nudge nudge.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

Here is the Andrew Sullivan piece from last year:

A naive person might believe that Barack Hussein Obama was born, as he has long said he was, in Hawaii to a young American mother and a distant father from Kenya. There are notices in two local papers and the certification of birth is filed in the state of Hawaii’s records.

An independent body — FactCheck.org — part of the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania, asked to see a copy of the original during last year’s campaign. FactCheck is non-partisan and takes all sorts of politicians’ claims to task. Here’s its take on Obama’s birth certificate: “FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving US citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. . . Our conclusion: Obama was born in the USA just as he has always said.”

FactCheck does good work, but they do have their biases. Andrew Sullivan has become a hack. And saying that FactCheck examined 'the original birth certificate' is just simply false. Not much reason to go on.

Do you have proof of this, Mr. I Bring Facts?So factcheck, the state of Hawaii, the democratic Party, the Supreme Court and Congress and countless others are all in on this mission to cover up your perceived irregularities in Obama's birth and let him become President without actually vetting him to their legal satisfaction. And, you want (or seem to want) the Feds to override Hawaii's State Rights to prove to birthers like you what they've already concluded to be true? And i'm sure that since this is a political thing, not a GOP thing, you were spearheading the efforts to uncover Bush's missing "military" records. And I'm sure you held Bush's military records to the same standard that you held Kerry's too, you know, since this isn't a GOP thing.

Why is Obama showing the certificate to everyone but those who are asking for it?

 

[mad sweeney]

Here is the Andrew Sullivan piece from last year:

A naive person might believe that Barack Hussein Obama was born, as he has long said he was, in Hawaii to a young American mother and a distant father from Kenya. There are notices in two local papers and the certification of birth is filed in the state of Hawaii’s records.

An independent body — FactCheck.org — part of the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania, asked to see a copy of the original during last year’s campaign. FactCheck is non-partisan and takes all sorts of politicians’ claims to task. Here’s its take on Obama’s birth certificate: “FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving US citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. . . Our conclusion: Obama was born in the USA just as he has always said.”

FactCheck does good work, but they do have their biases. Andrew Sullivan has become a hack. And saying that FactCheck examined 'the original birth certificate' is just simply false. Not much reason to go on.

Do you have proof of this, Mr. I Bring Facts?So factcheck, the state of Hawaii, the democratic Party, the Supreme Court and Congress and countless others are all in on this mission to cover up your perceived irregularities in Obama's birth and let him become President without actually vetting him to their legal satisfaction. And, you want (or seem to want) the Feds to override Hawaii's State Rights to prove to birthers like you what they've already concluded to be true? And i'm sure that since this is a political thing, not a GOP thing, you were spearheading the efforts to uncover Bush's missing "military" records. And I'm sure you held Bush's military records to the same standard that you held Kerry's too, you know, since this isn't a GOP thing.

Why is Obama showing the certificate to everyone but those who are asking for it?

One non-partisan website is everyone? And they didn't ask for it?

 

[Bogeys]

2) The only one who appears to be obsessed with the race angle is you.

Really?If I google the words "Birther" and "racism" I get literally dozens of articles, statements, opinion pieces about how the Birther movement is based in racism. Some are by liberals. Some are by conservatives, such as Michael Medved. Some are by non-partisan political groups like Politico, and by independent political thinkers like Andrew Sullivan. This is not an idea that I came up with. Its a series of reasonable arguments made by all sorts of thoughtful people that I happen to agree with.

The problem is that it's your 'go-to' move for every topics that you can fit it into. Someone could bump at least 20 of your topics where you go right there like Roger Rabbit through the wall.

20 topics is a slight exaggeration. And you're ignoring the fact that, if you look up my arguments regarding gay marriage, you will discover that I spent most of my time making the point that those opposed to it are not necessarily anti-gay. I have also defended those who are anti-Zionist as not being anti-Semitic, and I will continue to do so. So no, I don't think I am willing to cry racism at every opportunity.THIS situation seems pretty clear to me, though.

And on and on you go. I'm not saying that they are really bigots or really racist or really evil, but it's definately a part of their opposition to my opinion. You know, wink wink, nudge nudge.

Say no more, say no more

 

[Dr. Awesome]

One non-partisan website is everyone? And they didn't ask for it?

That's even worse. Hey, the people who voted me into office and want to see something? Up yours. If Obama has nothing to hide he should just post it for his voters to see.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

2) The only one who appears to be obsessed with the race angle is you.

Really?If I google the words "Birther" and "racism" I get literally dozens of articles, statements, opinion pieces about how the Birther movement is based in racism. Some are by liberals. Some are by conservatives, such as Michael Medved. Some are by non-partisan political groups like Politico, and by independent political thinkers like Andrew Sullivan. This is not an idea that I came up with. Its a series of reasonable arguments made by all sorts of thoughtful people that I happen to agree with.

The problem is that it's your 'go-to' move for every topics that you can fit it into. Someone could bump at least 20 of your topics where you go right there like Roger Rabbit through the wall.

20 topics is a slight exaggeration. And you're ignoring the fact that, if you look up my arguments regarding gay marriage, you will discover that I spent most of my time making the point that those opposed to it are not necessarily anti-gay. I have also defended those who are anti-Zionist as not being anti-Semitic, and I will continue to do so. So no, I don't think I am willing to cry racism at every opportunity.THIS situation seems pretty clear to me, though.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...hlite=%2BRacist25 pages of posts.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

I don't care that Obama is black. I care he won't show his voters something they're asking for. If he has nothing to hide what's the big deal? It causes some smoke when there should be none.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I don't care that Obama is black. I care he won't show his voters something they're asking for. If he has nothing to hide what's the big deal? It causes some smoke when there should be none.

I agree. Every elected official should comply with every batpoop crazy request from every out there, regardless of how insane it is and how many times their absurd theories have been rebuffed. This is the path to intelligent, productive discourse and effective government.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

I don't care that Obama is black. I care he won't show his voters something they're asking for. If he has nothing to hide what's the big deal? It causes some smoke when there should be none.

I agree. Every elected official should comply with every batpoop crazy request from every out there, regardless of how insane it is and how many times their absurd theories have been rebuffed. This is the path to intelligent, productive discourse and effective government.

The stats have been posted. This isn't one nut. It's a significant portion of his voters.