The Daily Show with Jon Stewart (1 Viewer)

[saintfool]

Nicea did a lot of things...

1. officially made the Trinity doctrine (in a much more polytheistic manner than we believe it today... more along the lines of Platonian philosophy than modern Christian thought, but I digress).

2. formed the Catholic Church officially and made it the Roman State's Religion.

3. decided what was in and what was out of the Bible.



quite frankly I think modern Christianity should break off of every decision made at Nicea, but, that's just me... The Catholics did a lot more bad than they did good, they changed a lot when they should have left it alone, and they definately damned a lot more souls than they have ever or will ever save...

Please spare the Catholics here your neo-protestant claptrap, ok? We can go around and around on this, LB, if you want. However, your stance points to intolerance and willful ignorance. And, for the record, Edict of Milan legalized Christianity within the Empire. It did not become the state religion until well after the first Council of Nicaea.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

I think Captain Picard was way better than Captain Kirk.

 

[larry_boy_44]

Nicea did a lot of things...

1. officially made the Trinity doctrine (in a much more polytheistic manner than we believe it today... more along the lines of Platonian philosophy than modern Christian thought, but I digress).

2. formed the Catholic Church officially and made it the Roman State's Religion.

3. decided what was in and what was out of the Bible.



quite frankly I think modern Christianity should break off of every decision made at Nicea, but, that's just me... The Catholics did a lot more bad than they did good, they changed a lot when they should have left it alone, and they definately damned a lot more souls than they have ever or will ever save...

Please spare the Catholics here your neo-protestant claptrap, ok? We can go around and around on this, LB, if you want. However, your stance points to intolerance and willful ignorance. And, for the record, Edict of Milan legalized Christianity within the Empire. It did not become the state religion until well after the first Council of Nicaea.

1. I don't like the Protestant church much, either...2. it isn't intolerant and the only willful ignorance is on your part since the Catholic Church has openly admitted that it changed certain verses to support its doctrines that had no Biblical support (Matthew 28:19 & baptism)

but, hey, continue following a church that has admitted it changed the Bible to perpetrate a lie that it is still telling to you...

 

[Politician Spock]

I'm not necessarily saying mine is right, I'm saying i am 100% sure thiers is wrong (by thier own admission through history)

Every Christian denomination is wrong in one way or another. Denominations are made up of people who are fallible. If were damned to hell because our doctrine is slightly wrong, then God's Grace is NOT sufficient.That's not to say we can believe anything and God's Grace will be sufficient, but to tell people who profess belief in Jesus Christ, and serve Christ continually, and produce good fruit in the lives, that they are going to hell because of technicalities of the words that were uttered when they were baptized is ludicrous.

how about this... it isn't just SLIGHTLY wrong, its completely and utterly wrong and based upon heresy and pagan doctrines that have no place in the church...the whole doctrine of the trinity and baptism in the titles is, to a large degree, based upon 2 verses (Matthew 28:19 & I John 5:7) that WERE CHANGED!!! one said "In my name" originally and the ohter never existed...

The Catholic Church isn't just a little wrong, its completely missed the boat over the years, Spock... if anything, right now today it is at its best, and that is sad, to be honest with you...

What you are saying is that we can believe anythign and God's Grace is sufficient...

I stopped reading your reply because this last sentence made it completely obvious that you didn't even read (or perhaps comprehend) my post. Please read the bolded part in my post that you quoted.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

but, hey, continue following a church that has admitted it changed the Bible to perpetrated a lie that it is still telling to you...

 

[larry_boy_44]

I'm not necessarily saying mine is right, I'm saying i am 100% sure thiers is wrong (by thier own admission through history)

Every Christian denomination is wrong in one way or another. Denominations are made up of people who are fallible. If were damned to hell because our doctrine is slightly wrong, then God's Grace is NOT sufficient.That's not to say we can believe anything and God's Grace will be sufficient, but to tell people who profess belief in Jesus Christ, and serve Christ continually, and produce good fruit in the lives, that they are going to hell because of technicalities of the words that were uttered when they were baptized is ludicrous.

how about this... it isn't just SLIGHTLY wrong, its completely and utterly wrong and based upon heresy and pagan doctrines that have no place in the church...the whole doctrine of the trinity and baptism in the titles is, to a large degree, based upon 2 verses (Matthew 28:19 & I John 5:7) that WERE CHANGED!!! one said "In my name" originally and the ohter never existed...

The Catholic Church isn't just a little wrong, its completely missed the boat over the years, Spock... if anything, right now today it is at its best, and that is sad, to be honest with you...

What you are saying is that we can believe anythign and God's Grace is sufficient...

I stopped reading your reply because this last sentence made it completely obvious that you didn't even read (or perhaps comprehend) my post. Please read the bolded part in my post that you quoted.

I know, Spock, you claimed that you weren't saying that... the problem is that, in actuality, you were...If you don't even have to obey direct commands from God to be saved, then what do you have to do??? Where did you find out about these requirements if the requirements that God stated aren't required???

 

[Sabertooth]

Did you guys read DaVinci Code? That was awesome!

 

[larry_boy_44]

but, hey, continue following a church that has admitted it changed the Bible to perpetrated a lie that it is still telling to you...

yes, assume everyone is lying to you, that's the way to live life...

 

[Sabertooth]

I'm not necessarily saying mine is right, I'm saying i am 100% sure thiers is wrong (by thier own admission through history)

Every Christian denomination is wrong in one way or another. Denominations are made up of people who are fallible. If were damned to hell because our doctrine is slightly wrong, then God's Grace is NOT sufficient.That's not to say we can believe anything and God's Grace will be sufficient, but to tell people who profess belief in Jesus Christ, and serve Christ continually, and produce good fruit in the lives, that they are going to hell because of technicalities of the words that were uttered when they were baptized is ludicrous.

how about this... it isn't just SLIGHTLY wrong, its completely and utterly wrong and based upon heresy and pagan doctrines that have no place in the church...the whole doctrine of the trinity and baptism in the titles is, to a large degree, based upon 2 verses (Matthew 28:19 & I John 5:7) that WERE CHANGED!!! one said "In my name" originally and the ohter never existed...

The Catholic Church isn't just a little wrong, its completely missed the boat over the years, Spock... if anything, right now today it is at its best, and that is sad, to be honest with you...

What you are saying is that we can believe anythign and God's Grace is sufficient...

I stopped reading your reply because this last sentence made it completely obvious that you didn't even read (or perhaps comprehend) my post. Please read the bolded part in my post that you quoted.

I know, Spock, you claimed that you weren't saying that... the problem is that, in actuality, you were...If you don't even have to obey direct commands from God to be saved, then what do you have to do??? Where did you find out about these requirements if the requirements that God stated aren't required???

I've never heard a direct command from God. How will I know it when I hear it?

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

I'm not necessarily saying mine is right, I'm saying i am 100% sure thiers is wrong (by thier own admission through history)

Every Christian denomination is wrong in one way or another. Denominations are made up of people who are fallible. If were damned to hell because our doctrine is slightly wrong, then God's Grace is NOT sufficient.That's not to say we can believe anything and God's Grace will be sufficient, but to tell people who profess belief in Jesus Christ, and serve Christ continually, and produce good fruit in the lives, that they are going to hell because of technicalities of the words that were uttered when they were baptized is ludicrous.

how about this... it isn't just SLIGHTLY wrong, its completely and utterly wrong and based upon heresy and pagan doctrines that have no place in the church...the whole doctrine of the trinity and baptism in the titles is, to a large degree, based upon 2 verses (Matthew 28:19 & I John 5:7) that WERE CHANGED!!! one said "In my name" originally and the ohter never existed...

The Catholic Church isn't just a little wrong, its completely missed the boat over the years, Spock... if anything, right now today it is at its best, and that is sad, to be honest with you...

What you are saying is that we can believe anythign and God's Grace is sufficient...

I stopped reading your reply because this last sentence made it completely obvious that you didn't even read (or perhaps comprehend) my post. Please read the bolded part in my post that you quoted.

I know, Spock, you claimed that you weren't saying that... the problem is that, in actuality, you were...If you don't even have to obey direct commands from God to be saved, then what do you have to do??? Where did you find out about these requirements if the requirements that God stated aren't required???

I've never heard a direct command from God. How will I know it when I hear it?

Someone like Larry will tell you...

 

[Idiot Boxer]

but, hey, continue following a church that has admitted it changed the Bible to perpetrated a lie that it is still telling to you...

yes, assume everyone is lying to you, that's the way to live life...

Can we please get a dog chasing his tail smiley.

 

[larry_boy_44]

I'm not necessarily saying mine is right, I'm saying i am 100% sure thiers is wrong (by thier own admission through history)

Every Christian denomination is wrong in one way or another. Denominations are made up of people who are fallible. If were damned to hell because our doctrine is slightly wrong, then God's Grace is NOT sufficient.That's not to say we can believe anything and God's Grace will be sufficient, but to tell people who profess belief in Jesus Christ, and serve Christ continually, and produce good fruit in the lives, that they are going to hell because of technicalities of the words that were uttered when they were baptized is ludicrous.

how about this... it isn't just SLIGHTLY wrong, its completely and utterly wrong and based upon heresy and pagan doctrines that have no place in the church...the whole doctrine of the trinity and baptism in the titles is, to a large degree, based upon 2 verses (Matthew 28:19 & I John 5:7) that WERE CHANGED!!! one said "In my name" originally and the ohter never existed...

The Catholic Church isn't just a little wrong, its completely missed the boat over the years, Spock... if anything, right now today it is at its best, and that is sad, to be honest with you...

What you are saying is that we can believe anythign and God's Grace is sufficient...

I stopped reading your reply because this last sentence made it completely obvious that you didn't even read (or perhaps comprehend) my post. Please read the bolded part in my post that you quoted.

I know, Spock, you claimed that you weren't saying that... the problem is that, in actuality, you were...If you don't even have to obey direct commands from God to be saved, then what do you have to do??? Where did you find out about these requirements if the requirements that God stated aren't required???

I've never heard a direct command from God. How will I know it when I hear it?

I'd say Matthew 28:19 is a direct command (although I would study it out and figure out what it really said when it wasn't written)... Acts 2:38 could qualify... tons of stuff in the Bible would qualify, IMO...

 

[Idiot Boxer]

I'm not necessarily saying mine is right, I'm saying i am 100% sure thiers is wrong (by thier own admission through history)

Every Christian denomination is wrong in one way or another. Denominations are made up of people who are fallible. If were damned to hell because our doctrine is slightly wrong, then God's Grace is NOT sufficient.That's not to say we can believe anything and God's Grace will be sufficient, but to tell people who profess belief in Jesus Christ, and serve Christ continually, and produce good fruit in the lives, that they are going to hell because of technicalities of the words that were uttered when they were baptized is ludicrous.

how about this... it isn't just SLIGHTLY wrong, its completely and utterly wrong and based upon heresy and pagan doctrines that have no place in the church...the whole doctrine of the trinity and baptism in the titles is, to a large degree, based upon 2 verses (Matthew 28:19 & I John 5:7) that WERE CHANGED!!! one said "In my name" originally and the ohter never existed...

The Catholic Church isn't just a little wrong, its completely missed the boat over the years, Spock... if anything, right now today it is at its best, and that is sad, to be honest with you...

What you are saying is that we can believe anythign and God's Grace is sufficient...

I stopped reading your reply because this last sentence made it completely obvious that you didn't even read (or perhaps comprehend) my post. Please read the bolded part in my post that you quoted.

I know, Spock, you claimed that you weren't saying that... the problem is that, in actuality, you were...If you don't even have to obey direct commands from God to be saved, then what do you have to do??? Where did you find out about these requirements if the requirements that God stated aren't required???

I've never heard a direct command from God. How will I know it when I hear it?

I'd say Matthew 28:19 is a direct command (although I would study it out and figure out what it really said when it wasn't written)... Acts 2:38 could qualify... tons of stuff in the Bible would qualify, IMO...

Which Bible is this one? The one actually penned by god or the one that has human hands all over it (including those damn text-changing Catholics)

 

[Politician Spock]

I'm not necessarily saying mine is right, I'm saying i am 100% sure thiers is wrong (by thier own admission through history)

Every Christian denomination is wrong in one way or another. Denominations are made up of people who are fallible. If were damned to hell because our doctrine is slightly wrong, then God's Grace is NOT sufficient.That's not to say we can believe anything and God's Grace will be sufficient, but to tell people who profess belief in Jesus Christ, and serve Christ continually, and produce good fruit in the lives, that they are going to hell because of technicalities of the words that were uttered when they were baptized is ludicrous.

how about this... it isn't just SLIGHTLY wrong, its completely and utterly wrong and based upon heresy and pagan doctrines that have no place in the church...the whole doctrine of the trinity and baptism in the titles is, to a large degree, based upon 2 verses (Matthew 28:19 & I John 5:7) that WERE CHANGED!!! one said "In my name" originally and the ohter never existed...

The Catholic Church isn't just a little wrong, its completely missed the boat over the years, Spock... if anything, right now today it is at its best, and that is sad, to be honest with you...

What you are saying is that we can believe anythign and God's Grace is sufficient...

I stopped reading your reply because this last sentence made it completely obvious that you didn't even read (or perhaps comprehend) my post. Please read the bolded part in my post that you quoted.

I know, Spock, you claimed that you weren't saying that... the problem is that, in actuality, you were...If you don't even have to obey direct commands from God to be saved, then what do you have to do??? Where did you find out about these requirements if the requirements that God stated aren't required???

Why are you asking me about requirements for salvation? It's you that says there are requirements. The only argument that there are requirements for salvation above and beyond believing in Jesus Christ can only be established by ignoring the rest of the Bible and assuming that Acts is the only diffinative source on how one obtains salvation. You've made this argument to me countless times and I'm not getting into it again, because it's based on much circular and faulty logic.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

You're as offensive as a homophobe.

 

[larry_boy_44]

I'm not necessarily saying mine is right, I'm saying i am 100% sure thiers is wrong (by thier own admission through history)

Every Christian denomination is wrong in one way or another. Denominations are made up of people who are fallible. If were damned to hell because our doctrine is slightly wrong, then God's Grace is NOT sufficient.That's not to say we can believe anything and God's Grace will be sufficient, but to tell people who profess belief in Jesus Christ, and serve Christ continually, and produce good fruit in the lives, that they are going to hell because of technicalities of the words that were uttered when they were baptized is ludicrous.

how about this... it isn't just SLIGHTLY wrong, its completely and utterly wrong and based upon heresy and pagan doctrines that have no place in the church...the whole doctrine of the trinity and baptism in the titles is, to a large degree, based upon 2 verses (Matthew 28:19 & I John 5:7) that WERE CHANGED!!! one said "In my name" originally and the ohter never existed...

The Catholic Church isn't just a little wrong, its completely missed the boat over the years, Spock... if anything, right now today it is at its best, and that is sad, to be honest with you...

What you are saying is that we can believe anythign and God's Grace is sufficient...

I stopped reading your reply because this last sentence made it completely obvious that you didn't even read (or perhaps comprehend) my post. Please read the bolded part in my post that you quoted.

I know, Spock, you claimed that you weren't saying that... the problem is that, in actuality, you were...If you don't even have to obey direct commands from God to be saved, then what do you have to do??? Where did you find out about these requirements if the requirements that God stated aren't required???

Why are you asking me about requirements for salvation? It's you that says there are requirements. The only argument that there are requirements for salvation above and beyond believing in Jesus Christ can only be established by ignoring the rest of the Bible and assuming that Acts is the only diffinative source on how one obtains salvation. You've made this argument to me countless times and I'm not getting into it again, because it's based on much circular and faulty logic.

define "belief" Spock... is "belief" in your world simply saying "I believe in you Jesus"???If I said that in order to save your life you'd ahve to do <insert some lame mundane task here> and you believed me, woudl that belief be enough or should you do the lame mundane task?

Faith without works is DEAD Spock, it means absolutely nothing... I understand where you are coming from, I really do, I just see no evidence in the Bible that simply believing that God is real is enough to be saved without any action behind it...

Jesus told the apostles to baptize all people in His name in Matthew 28:19, why? Well, according to Peter, it is because baptism is for remission of sins...

The real question here is why, if it is factually in the Bible as much as it is, you refuse to be baptized in Jesus' name...

 

[boubucarow]

Christians will never realize that it isn't their decision on whom goes to hell and who doesn't. It is His decision, not yours. You couldn't possibly understand his decisions. And you couldn't possibly know who is going to hell or heaven. I wish they would start acting in accordance to their ignorance.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

I'm not necessarily saying mine is right, I'm saying i am 100% sure thiers is wrong (by thier own admission through history)

Every Christian denomination is wrong in one way or another. Denominations are made up of people who are fallible. If were damned to hell because our doctrine is slightly wrong, then God's Grace is NOT sufficient.That's not to say we can believe anything and God's Grace will be sufficient, but to tell people who profess belief in Jesus Christ, and serve Christ continually, and produce good fruit in the lives, that they are going to hell because of technicalities of the words that were uttered when they were baptized is ludicrous.

how about this... it isn't just SLIGHTLY wrong, its completely and utterly wrong and based upon heresy and pagan doctrines that have no place in the church...the whole doctrine of the trinity and baptism in the titles is, to a large degree, based upon 2 verses (Matthew 28:19 & I John 5:7) that WERE CHANGED!!! one said "In my name" originally and the ohter never existed...

The Catholic Church isn't just a little wrong, its completely missed the boat over the years, Spock... if anything, right now today it is at its best, and that is sad, to be honest with you...

What you are saying is that we can believe anythign and God's Grace is sufficient...

I stopped reading your reply because this last sentence made it completely obvious that you didn't even read (or perhaps comprehend) my post. Please read the bolded part in my post that you quoted.

I know, Spock, you claimed that you weren't saying that... the problem is that, in actuality, you were...If you don't even have to obey direct commands from God to be saved, then what do you have to do??? Where did you find out about these requirements if the requirements that God stated aren't required???

Why are you asking me about requirements for salvation? It's you that says there are requirements. The only argument that there are requirements for salvation above and beyond believing in Jesus Christ can only be established by ignoring the rest of the Bible and assuming that Acts is the only diffinative source on how one obtains salvation. You've made this argument to me countless times and I'm not getting into it again, because it's based on much circular and faulty logic.

define "belief" Spock... is "belief" in your world simply saying "I believe in you Jesus"???If I said that in order to save your life you'd ahve to do <insert some lame mundane task here> and you believed me, woudl that belief be enough or should you do the lame mundane task?

Faith without works is DEAD Spock, it means absolutely nothing... I understand where you are coming from, I really do, I just see no evidence in the Bible that simply believing that God is real is enough to be saved without any action behind it...

Jesus told the apostles to baptize all people in His name in Matthew 28:19, why? Well, according to Peter, it is because baptism is for remission of sins...

The real question here is why, if it is factually in the Bible as much as it is, you refuse to be baptized in Jesus' name...

If I told you you had to eat a Taco in order to be saved, and you went out and ate a Taco, a Burrito and an Enchilada...did you do what you needed to do to be saved?

 

[aardball44]

Christians will never realize that it isn't their decision on whom goes to hell and who doesn't. It is His decision, not yours. You couldn't possibly understand his decisions. And you couldn't possibly know who is going to hell or heaven.

 

[Koya]

The Catholics did a lot more bad than they did good, they changed a lot when they should have left it alone, and they definately damned a lot more souls than they have ever or will ever save...

Very interesting take here. So the church is now the determiner of salvation or damnation? I always thought that was a God thing, but if I am reading you right the church you attend has a role in whether or not you are saved?!?

Yes, the ones who edited the content of the Bible to lead people astray did have a hand in damning the souls of those who were dumb enough to blindly follow.If I tell you to drink some Kool-Aid (and it is laced with cianide, but you don't know) and you are dumb enough to drink it because I told you to, did I have a hand in your death?

same thing applies here... Scripture verses were changed, the Bible was made illegal to read, pagan doctrines were incorperated into the church, and the end result was more people were damned as a result of believing the lies of the Catholic Church than they could ever save...

The church (especially that church) has no say in whether you are saved or not, however, by believing anyone's lie you can be taken to hell... that is what is happening here...

So every dead Catholic is in Hell?

You don't want to know where the Jews end up.

 

[saintfool]

Nicea did a lot of things...

1. officially made the Trinity doctrine (in a much more polytheistic manner than we believe it today... more along the lines of Platonian philosophy than modern Christian thought, but I digress).

2. formed the Catholic Church officially and made it the Roman State's Religion.

3. decided what was in and what was out of the Bible.



quite frankly I think modern Christianity should break off of every decision made at Nicea, but, that's just me... The Catholics did a lot more bad than they did good, they changed a lot when they should have left it alone, and they definately damned a lot more souls than they have ever or will ever save...

Please spare the Catholics here your neo-protestant claptrap, ok? We can go around and around on this, LB, if you want. However, your stance points to intolerance and willful ignorance. And, for the record, Edict of Milan legalized Christianity within the Empire. It did not become the state religion until well after the first Council of Nicaea.

1. I don't like the Protestant church much, either...2. it isn't intolerant and the only willful ignorance is on your part since the Catholic Church has openly admitted that it changed certain verses to support its doctrines that had no Biblical support (Matthew 28:19 & baptism)

but, hey, continue following a church that has admitted it changed the Bible to perpetrate a lie that it is still telling to you...

There is no single protestant church, LB. Unless you are a practicing member of any of the Eastern Orthodox churches, you're likely a protestant or a spin-off of one of the protestant denominations. you might not like the label "protestant" but, if you're christian and not eastern orthodox, you are one.For the record, I'm not Catholic. I just take offense at your intolerant attitude toward a faith that is shared by hundreds of millions worldwide. It's one thing to go after it for its part in the darkest, most shameful chapters of human history. However, it's an entirely different matter when you go after over ecclesiatical matters.

 

[larry_boy_44]

Christians will never realize that it isn't their decision on whom goes to hell and who doesn't. It is His decision, not yours. You couldn't possibly understand his decisions. And you couldn't possibly know who is going to hell or heaven. I wish they would start acting in accordance to their ignorance.

He does tell us His requirements...

 

[Koya]

I'm not necessarily saying mine is right, I'm saying i am 100% sure thiers is wrong (by thier own admission through history)

Hi, God, I'm bakes. Nice to meet you.

Reminds of that one time in college..."Hi God, Im baked. Nice to meet you"

One hell of a trip, that.

 

[CrossEyed]

And yet another Larry_boy thread.

 

[larry_boy_44]

Nicea did a lot of things...

1. officially made the Trinity doctrine (in a much more polytheistic manner than we believe it today... more along the lines of Platonian philosophy than modern Christian thought, but I digress).

2. formed the Catholic Church officially and made it the Roman State's Religion.

3. decided what was in and what was out of the Bible.



quite frankly I think modern Christianity should break off of every decision made at Nicea, but, that's just me... The Catholics did a lot more bad than they did good, they changed a lot when they should have left it alone, and they definately damned a lot more souls than they have ever or will ever save...

Please spare the Catholics here your neo-protestant claptrap, ok? We can go around and around on this, LB, if you want. However, your stance points to intolerance and willful ignorance. And, for the record, Edict of Milan legalized Christianity within the Empire. It did not become the state religion until well after the first Council of Nicaea.

1. I don't like the Protestant church much, either...2. it isn't intolerant and the only willful ignorance is on your part since the Catholic Church has openly admitted that it changed certain verses to support its doctrines that had no Biblical support (Matthew 28:19 & baptism)

but, hey, continue following a church that has admitted it changed the Bible to perpetrate a lie that it is still telling to you...

There is no single protestant church, LB. Unless you are a practicing member of any of the Eastern Orthodox churches, you're likely a protestant or a spin-off of one of the protestant denominations. you might not like the label "protestant" but, if you're christian and not eastern orthodox, you are one.For the record, I'm not Catholic. I just take offense at your intolerant attitude toward a faith that is shared by hundreds of millions worldwide. It's one thing to go after it for its part in the darkest, most shameful chapters of human history. However, it's an entirely different matter when you go after over ecclesiatical matters.

to go after it for purposefully doctoring up its own holy book in order to continue a lie that it tells its congregations???Its not like they haven't admitted that they lied (they have, in mutliple venues) but yet they continue the doctrine that they felt hte need to lie to support...

they deserve to be gone after for purposefully editing thier own Holy Book in order to make people believe the lie they knew they were telling and then, after admitting they edited it in order to support thier lie, they continue to tell it...

 

[boubucarow]

Christians will never realize that it isn't their decision on whom goes to hell and who doesn't. It is His decision, not yours. You couldn't possibly understand his decisions. And you couldn't possibly know who is going to hell or heaven. I wish they would start acting in accordance to their ignorance.

He does tell us His requirements...

True. But you can never know what is in a person's mind and heart. Only He can. Anyways, those who judge aren't exactly following his requirements either.

 

[larry_boy_44]

Christians will never realize that it isn't their decision on whom goes to hell and who doesn't.  It is His decision, not yours.  You couldn't possibly understand his decisions.  And you couldn't possibly know who is going to hell or heaven.  I wish they would start acting in accordance to their ignorance.

He does tell us His requirements...

True. But you can never know what is in a person's mind and heart. Only He can. Anyways, those who judge aren't exactly following his requirements either.

depends how you judge... That verse in the Bible is not telling us not to say whether someone is doing wrong or not, its saying that we shouldn't be hateful about it when we say that someone is doing something wrong... and I'm not being hateful, I'm being honest...They are preaching falsehoods when they preach things, and they did edit the Bible so it fit what they were preaching better... adn that is a joke and a shame and something that needs to be uncovered and admitted for the whole world to know...

and the Bible says we will know those who are saved by thier fruit... we can know who is saved without knowing thier heart/mind, because there is more to it than simply thier heart/mind.... Now, can someone be right on the outside and not on the inside? Absolutely, but there is no way they can be the other way around (wrong on the outside, but right on the inside)

 

[boubucarow]

I didn't say hateful. I said you are making judgements on the eternal life of others. That type of self-importance and pride isn't the essence of a true follower, is it?

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

I'm not necessarily saying mine is right, I'm saying i am 100% sure thiers is wrong (by thier own admission through history)

Every Christian denomination is wrong in one way or another. Denominations are made up of people who are fallible. If were damned to hell because our doctrine is slightly wrong, then God's Grace is NOT sufficient.That's not to say we can believe anything and God's Grace will be sufficient, but to tell people who profess belief in Jesus Christ, and serve Christ continually, and produce good fruit in the lives, that they are going to hell because of technicalities of the words that were uttered when they were baptized is ludicrous.

If God exists is perfect and worthy of worship and praise then God is not this anal.

 

[saintfool]

to go after it for purposefully doctoring up its own holy book in order to continue a lie that it tells its congregations???

Its not like they haven't admitted that they lied (they have, in mutliple venues) but yet they continue the doctrine that they felt hte need to lie to support...

they deserve to be gone after for purposefully editing thier own Holy Book in order to make people believe the lie they knew they were telling and then, after admitting they edited it in order to support thier lie, they continue to tell it...

PM me when you're ready to take a swing at the other christian sects/denominations, ok? Otherwise, your criticism is bordering on the irrational.ETA: in the spiriti of inquiry, i'd like to hear more about this misrepresentations, lies and the like that have been perpetrated by RCC. can you provide links?

 

[dgreen]

I didn't say hateful. I said you are making judgements on the eternal life of others. That type of self-importance and pride isn't the essence of a true follower, is it?

Isn't there a verse about Christ not be needed if we could judge someone's salvation? I believe Paul said something along those lines.

 

[Charlie Steiner]

Christians will never realize that it isn't their decision on whom goes to hell and who doesn't. It is His decision, not yours. You couldn't possibly understand his decisions. And you couldn't possibly know who is going to hell or heaven. I wish they would start acting in accordance to their ignorance.

I, for one, am WAY ahead of you on this. I act in accordance to my ignorance all the time...When I was first born again 10 years ago, "discernment" was my mantra. I spent several years virorously attempting to separate the 'divine' from the 'heretical', which led me to roundly condemning people/denominations/beliefs all over the place. Finally, it dawned on me that judgement is not mine to pass, and as a result I've gone in completely the opposite direction. Now, i'd just rather take a "agree on the basics" approach and leave the rest. What would interest me about reading this book is whether the "misquotes" contradict or agree with the 'spirit' of the Word, and where/how.

 

[Dash]

Did you guys read DaVinci Code? That was awesome!

I would have preferred that he take the story one level deeper and have the blood line of JC contain an antigen that helps fight a plague spreading across the world as part of the apocalypse.Now, back to your regularly scheduled FBG who's who in the world of righteousness...

 

[Idiot Boxer]

I'm not necessarily saying mine is right, I'm saying i am 100% sure thiers is wrong (by thier own admission through history)

Every Christian denomination is wrong in one way or another. Denominations are made up of people who are fallible. If were damned to hell because our doctrine is slightly wrong, then God's Grace is NOT sufficient.That's not to say we can believe anything and God's Grace will be sufficient, but to tell people who profess belief in Jesus Christ, and serve Christ continually, and produce good fruit in the lives, that they are going to hell because of technicalities of the words that were uttered when they were baptized is ludicrous.

how about this... it isn't just SLIGHTLY wrong, its completely and utterly wrong and based upon heresy and pagan doctrines that have no place in the church...the whole doctrine of the trinity and baptism in the titles is, to a large degree, based upon 2 verses (Matthew 28:19 & I John 5:7) that WERE CHANGED!!! one said "In my name" originally and the ohter never existed...

The Catholic Church isn't just a little wrong, its completely missed the boat over the years, Spock... if anything, right now today it is at its best, and that is sad, to be honest with you...

What you are saying is that we can believe anythign and God's Grace is sufficient...

I stopped reading your reply because this last sentence made it completely obvious that you didn't even read (or perhaps comprehend) my post. Please read the bolded part in my post that you quoted.

I know, Spock, you claimed that you weren't saying that... the problem is that, in actuality, you were...If you don't even have to obey direct commands from God to be saved, then what do you have to do??? Where did you find out about these requirements if the requirements that God stated aren't required???

Why are you asking me about requirements for salvation? It's you that says there are requirements. The only argument that there are requirements for salvation above and beyond believing in Jesus Christ can only be established by ignoring the rest of the Bible and assuming that Acts is the only diffinative source on how one obtains salvation. You've made this argument to me countless times and I'm not getting into it again, because it's based on much circular and faulty logic.

define "belief" Spock... is "belief" in your world simply saying "I believe in you Jesus"???If I said that in order to save your life you'd ahve to do <insert some lame mundane task here> and you believed me, woudl that belief be enough or should you do the lame mundane task?

Faith without works is DEAD Spock, it means absolutely nothing... I understand where you are coming from, I really do, I just see no evidence in the Bible that simply believing that God is real is enough to be saved without any action behind it...

Jesus told the apostles to baptize all people in His name in Matthew 28:19, why? Well, according to Peter, it is because baptism is for remission of sins...

The real question here is why, if it is factually in the Bible as much as it is, you refuse to be baptized in Jesus' name...

If I told you you had to eat a Taco in order to be saved, and you went out and ate a Taco, a Burrito and an Enchilada...did you do what you needed to do to be saved?

bump

 

[Homer J Simpson]

The Catholics did a lot more bad than they did good, they changed a lot when they should have left it alone, and they definately damned a lot more souls than they have ever or will ever save...

Very interesting take here. So the church is now the determiner of salvation or damnation? I always thought that was a God thing, but if I am reading you right the church you attend has a role in whether or not you are saved?!?

Yes, the ones who edited the content of the Bible to lead people astray did have a hand in damning the souls of those who were dumb enough to blindly follow.If I tell you to drink some Kool-Aid (and it is laced with cianide, but you don't know) and you are dumb enough to drink it because I told you to, did I have a hand in your death?

same thing applies here... Scripture verses were changed, the Bible was made illegal to read, pagan doctrines were incorperated into the church, and the end result was more people were damned as a result of believing the lies of the Catholic Church than they could ever save...

The church (especially that church) has no say in whether you are saved or not, however, by believing anyone's lie you can be taken to hell... that is what is happening here...

So every dead Catholic is in Hell?

You don't want to know where the Jews end up.

Miami?

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

you are aware that Luther didn't want to make a stand until they kicked him out, right? Luther wanted to stay a good cAtholic for the rest of his life and would have stayed that way had the Church not excommunicated him and tried to kill him...

That certainly would've pissed me off.

 

[Jayrok]

Larry is a troll who is no different than any other fundamentalist self-righteous christian.

He spews his pious tripe as divine gospel while condemning any other beliefs that may differ, even in the slightest, from his own. He whines on and on about how the evil Catholic empire changed/distorted the scriptures when the simple truth is, he doesn't have a clue what actually transpired in the early centuries.

He believes the possibility that even those bits of scripture that define his pompous point of view were altered by later writers is out of the question. He believes the only scriptures that were altered were the ones that he doesn't believe in within his perfect little fantasy world.

Quick to condemn the Catholic church, he is first to proclaim his own understanding of scriptures is correct and unchallenged.

His is an ignorant world view, for the very same reasons he believes the Catholics are heretics. He needs to realize that it is possible that his precious scriptures that support his position were also the editing works of mortal men.

But God Bless him.. he believes he is right and anyone who defies his divine revelation, no matter the size of (even christian) opposition, is of the Devil and will spend the after-life in eternal torment.

Maybe you should start your own cult, Larry.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

Larry is a troll who is no different than any other fundamentalist self-righteous christian.

He spews his pious tripe as divine gospel while condemning any other beliefs that may differ, even in the slightest, from his own. He whines on and on about how the evil Catholic empire changed/distorted the scriptures when the simple truth is, he doesn't have a clue what actually transpired in the early centuries.

He believes the possibility that even those bits of scripture that define his pompous point of view were altered by later writers is out of the question. He believes the only scriptures that were altered were the ones that he doesn't believe in within his perfect little fantasy world.

Quick to condemn the Catholic church, he is first to proclaim his own understanding of scriptures is correct and unchallenged.

His is an ignorant world view, for the very same reasons he believes the Catholics are heretics. He needs to realize that it is possible that his precious scriptures that support his position were also the editing works of mortal men.

But God Bless him.. he believes he is right and anyone who defies his divine revelation, no matter the size of (even christian) opposition, is of the Devil and will spend the after-life in eternal torment.

Maybe you should start your own cult, Larry.

:dogchasingtail:

 

[Jayrok]

Nicea did a lot of things...

1. officially made the Trinity doctrine (in a much more polytheistic manner than we believe it today... more along the lines of Platonian philosophy than modern Christian thought, but I digress).

2. formed the Catholic Church officially and made it the Roman State's Religion.

3. decided what was in and what was out of the Bible.



quite frankly I think modern Christianity should break off of every decision made at Nicea, but, that's just me... The Catholics did a lot more bad than they did good, they changed a lot when they should have left it alone, and they definately damned a lot more souls than they have ever or will ever save...

What's your take on Gnostic scripture?

The Gnostic scriptures are interesting also. Many of these were discovered in 1945 in Egypt, known as The Nag Hammadi Library. They were buried near a rock formation in Egypt.During the early church, the Gnostic christians were deemed heretics. And much of their literature was destroyed along with other documents that opposed the church doctrine.

Basic Gnostic believe includes the idea that Jesus was neither God nor human. They believed the earth was created not by God the father, but by another evil god. They believe that Jesus was the first creation of God, which is nowhere near what mainstream christians believe. They believe that salvation is not from Jesus' acts on the cross, but from discovery from within. They believe that jesus taught this inner discovery while on earth.. a wicked earth. They believe spirit is pure and good, but materialistic things are evil. That is one reason why they don't believe God would come incarnate to earth.

Of course this was not acceptable to the church, and some maintain, the early apostles taught against this form of religion.

One can only wonder what other documents from alternate christian sources were destroyed in the early centuries.

Among those discovered was the gospel of Thomas. A collection of sayings attributed to Jesus. Some of the sayings were adopted in the gospels, but many weren't as they didn't quite go with the early church view of Jesus.

A good book on these gospels is from Elaine Pagels, called The Gnostic Gospels.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

I wonder if we can get a :godposting: icon for Larry_Boy

 

[rolyaTy]

The Catholics did a lot more bad than they did good, they changed a lot when they should have left it alone, and they definately damned a lot more souls than they have ever or will ever save...

Very interesting take here. So the church is now the determiner of salvation or damnation? I always thought that was a God thing, but if I am reading you right the church you attend has a role in whether or not you are saved?!?

For nearly 2 millenia the Catholic Church attempted to play that role. They most definitely tried to be the conduit between the individual and God. But a lot of that is more to do with the lack of literacy of the masses for all but the last 2 hundred years or so than the Catholic Church's trying to control the masses. Of course that control was frequently abused over the years thus forcing people like Martin Luther to make a stand....

you are aware that Luther didn't want to make a stand until they kicked him out, right? Luther wanted to stay a good cAtholic for the rest of his life and would have stayed that way had the Church not excommunicated him and tried to kill him...

 

[rolyaTy]

The Catholics did a lot more bad than they did good, they changed a lot when they should have left it alone, and they definately damned a lot more souls than they have ever or will ever save...

Very interesting take here. So the church is now the determiner of salvation or damnation? I always thought that was a God thing, but if I am reading you right the church you attend has a role in whether or not you are saved?!?

Yes, the ones who edited the content of the Bible to lead people astray did have a hand in damning the souls of those who were dumb enough to blindly follow.If I tell you to drink some Kool-Aid (and it is laced with cianide, but you don't know) and you are dumb enough to drink it because I told you to, did I have a hand in your death?

same thing applies here... Scripture verses were changed, the Bible was made illegal to read, pagan doctrines were incorperated into the church, and the end result was more people were damned as a result of believing the lies of the Catholic Church than they could ever save...

The church (especially that church) has no say in whether you are saved or not, however, by believing anyone's lie you can be taken to hell... that is what is happening here...

So every dead Catholic is in Hell?

You don't want to know where the Jews end up.

Where the bad jews go when they die,they don't go to heaven where the angels fly.

They go to a lake of fire and fry.

See 'em again 'til the 4th of july.

 

[Psychopav]

Did the Council of Nicaea exclude portions of the Gospel?

I don't think the purpose of the council was to decide what went in the bible. Its purpose was to discuss the divinity of Jesus and the relation to the Father. The decision that he was divine won the vote. But, it was believed that Jesus was divine many years before this council, just as an aside. Another decision that came out of the council was the date of the christian's observance of Easter (the christian passover). The council decided in favor of celebrating passover on the first Sunday after the first full moon following the spring equinox, which is different than the Jewish passover BTW.

Fixed.

 

[Politician Spock]

I'm not necessarily saying mine is right, I'm saying i am 100% sure thiers is wrong (by thier own admission through history)

Every Christian denomination is wrong in one way or another. Denominations are made up of people who are fallible. If were damned to hell because our doctrine is slightly wrong, then God's Grace is NOT sufficient.That's not to say we can believe anything and God's Grace will be sufficient, but to tell people who profess belief in Jesus Christ, and serve Christ continually, and produce good fruit in the lives, that they are going to hell because of technicalities of the words that were uttered when they were baptized is ludicrous.

how about this... it isn't just SLIGHTLY wrong, its completely and utterly wrong and based upon heresy and pagan doctrines that have no place in the church...the whole doctrine of the trinity and baptism in the titles is, to a large degree, based upon 2 verses (Matthew 28:19 & I John 5:7) that WERE CHANGED!!! one said "In my name" originally and the ohter never existed...

The Catholic Church isn't just a little wrong, its completely missed the boat over the years, Spock... if anything, right now today it is at its best, and that is sad, to be honest with you...

What you are saying is that we can believe anythign and God's Grace is sufficient...

I stopped reading your reply because this last sentence made it completely obvious that you didn't even read (or perhaps comprehend) my post. Please read the bolded part in my post that you quoted.

I know, Spock, you claimed that you weren't saying that... the problem is that, in actuality, you were...If you don't even have to obey direct commands from God to be saved, then what do you have to do??? Where did you find out about these requirements if the requirements that God stated aren't required???

Why are you asking me about requirements for salvation? It's you that says there are requirements. The only argument that there are requirements for salvation above and beyond believing in Jesus Christ can only be established by ignoring the rest of the Bible and assuming that Acts is the only diffinative source on how one obtains salvation. You've made this argument to me countless times and I'm not getting into it again, because it's based on much circular and faulty logic.

define "belief" Spock... is "belief" in your world simply saying "I believe in you Jesus"???If I said that in order to save your life you'd ahve to do <insert some lame mundane task here> and you believed me, woudl that belief be enough or should you do the lame mundane task?

Faith without works is DEAD Spock, it means absolutely nothing... I understand where you are coming from, I really do, I just see no evidence in the Bible that simply believing that God is real is enough to be saved without any action behind it...

Jesus told the apostles to baptize all people in His name in Matthew 28:19, why? Well, according to Peter, it is because baptism is for remission of sins...

The real question here is why, if it is factually in the Bible as much as it is, you refuse to be baptized in Jesus' name...

The real question here is why, if it is factually in the Bible as much as it is, you refuse to believe that someone who has been baptized in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost is not saved. The "name" as it is used in the greek means authority or power. It's not used in the sense of what a person goes by, like Bob, or Mike, or Larry. The name (authority or power) of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost is the same name (authority or power) of Jesus. Again, it's ludicrous to tell people who profess belief in Jesus Christ, and serve Christ continually, and produce good fruit in the lives, that they are going to hell because of technicalities of the words that were uttered when they were baptized.

 

[saintfool]

I wonder if we can get a :godposting: icon for Larry_Boy

oh, but there is:

 

[Politician Spock]

I wonder if we can get a :godposting: icon for Larry_Boy

oh, but there is:

 

[CrossEyed]

The real question here is why, if it is factually in the Bible as much as it is, you refuse to believe that someone who has been baptized in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost is not saved. The "name" as it is used in the greek means authority or power. It's not used in the sense of what a person goes by, like Bob, or Mike, or Larry. The name (authority or power) of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost is the same name (authority or power) of Jesus. Again, it's ludicrous to tell people who profess belief in Jesus Christ, and serve Christ continually, and produce good fruit in the lives, that they are going to hell because of technicalities of the words that were uttered when they were baptized.

Please refrain from attempting to use logic and common sense when conversing with Larry_boy.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

I'm not necessarily saying mine is right, I'm saying i am 100% sure thiers is wrong (by thier own admission through history)

Every Christian denomination is wrong in one way or another. Denominations are made up of people who are fallible. If were damned to hell because our doctrine is slightly wrong, then God's Grace is NOT sufficient.That's not to say we can believe anything and God's Grace will be sufficient, but to tell people who profess belief in Jesus Christ, and serve Christ continually, and produce good fruit in the lives, that they are going to hell because of technicalities of the words that were uttered when they were baptized is ludicrous.

how about this... it isn't just SLIGHTLY wrong, its completely and utterly wrong and based upon heresy and pagan doctrines that have no place in the church...the whole doctrine of the trinity and baptism in the titles is, to a large degree, based upon 2 verses (Matthew 28:19 & I John 5:7) that WERE CHANGED!!! one said "In my name" originally and the ohter never existed...

The Catholic Church isn't just a little wrong, its completely missed the boat over the years, Spock... if anything, right now today it is at its best, and that is sad, to be honest with you...

What you are saying is that we can believe anythign and God's Grace is sufficient...

I stopped reading your reply because this last sentence made it completely obvious that you didn't even read (or perhaps comprehend) my post. Please read the bolded part in my post that you quoted.

I know, Spock, you claimed that you weren't saying that... the problem is that, in actuality, you were...If you don't even have to obey direct commands from God to be saved, then what do you have to do??? Where did you find out about these requirements if the requirements that God stated aren't required???

Why are you asking me about requirements for salvation? It's you that says there are requirements. The only argument that there are requirements for salvation above and beyond believing in Jesus Christ can only be established by ignoring the rest of the Bible and assuming that Acts is the only diffinative source on how one obtains salvation. You've made this argument to me countless times and I'm not getting into it again, because it's based on much circular and faulty logic.

define "belief" Spock... is "belief" in your world simply saying "I believe in you Jesus"???If I said that in order to save your life you'd ahve to do <insert some lame mundane task here> and you believed me, woudl that belief be enough or should you do the lame mundane task?

Faith without works is DEAD Spock, it means absolutely nothing... I understand where you are coming from, I really do, I just see no evidence in the Bible that simply believing that God is real is enough to be saved without any action behind it...

Jesus told the apostles to baptize all people in His name in Matthew 28:19, why? Well, according to Peter, it is because baptism is for remission of sins...

The real question here is why, if it is factually in the Bible as much as it is, you refuse to be baptized in Jesus' name...

The real question here is why, if it is factually in the Bible as much as it is, you refuse to believe that someone who has been baptized in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost is not saved. The "name" as it is used in the greek means authority or power. It's not used in the sense of what a person goes by, like Bob, or Mike, or Larry. The name (authority or power) of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost is the same name (authority or power) of Jesus. Again, it's ludicrous to tell people who profess belief in Jesus Christ, and serve Christ continually, and produce good fruit in the lives, that they are going to hell because of technicalities of the words that were uttered when they were baptized.

or that people who were baptized in the name of the Taco, The Burrito or The Enchilada are more damned than those baptized just in the name of the Taco (or the Burrito, I always get confused as to which tasty Mexican dish Jesus is)

 

[shining path]

These threads are so awesome. I just love them.

Keep up the good work!

No kidding.And we're in good company. Emporer Constantine apparently got his jollies out of watching bishops debate. And the more violent the disagreements, the better he liked it.

 

[Politician Spock]

I'm not necessarily saying mine is right, I'm saying i am 100% sure thiers is wrong (by thier own admission through history)

Every Christian denomination is wrong in one way or another. Denominations are made up of people who are fallible. If were damned to hell because our doctrine is slightly wrong, then God's Grace is NOT sufficient.That's not to say we can believe anything and God's Grace will be sufficient, but to tell people who profess belief in Jesus Christ, and serve Christ continually, and produce good fruit in the lives, that they are going to hell because of technicalities of the words that were uttered when they were baptized is ludicrous.

how about this... it isn't just SLIGHTLY wrong, its completely and utterly wrong and based upon heresy and pagan doctrines that have no place in the church...the whole doctrine of the trinity and baptism in the titles is, to a large degree, based upon 2 verses (Matthew 28:19 & I John 5:7) that WERE CHANGED!!! one said "In my name" originally and the ohter never existed...

The Catholic Church isn't just a little wrong, its completely missed the boat over the years, Spock... if anything, right now today it is at its best, and that is sad, to be honest with you...

What you are saying is that we can believe anythign and God's Grace is sufficient...

I stopped reading your reply because this last sentence made it completely obvious that you didn't even read (or perhaps comprehend) my post. Please read the bolded part in my post that you quoted.

I know, Spock, you claimed that you weren't saying that... the problem is that, in actuality, you were...If you don't even have to obey direct commands from God to be saved, then what do you have to do??? Where did you find out about these requirements if the requirements that God stated aren't required???

Why are you asking me about requirements for salvation? It's you that says there are requirements. The only argument that there are requirements for salvation above and beyond believing in Jesus Christ can only be established by ignoring the rest of the Bible and assuming that Acts is the only diffinative source on how one obtains salvation. You've made this argument to me countless times and I'm not getting into it again, because it's based on much circular and faulty logic.

define "belief" Spock... is "belief" in your world simply saying "I believe in you Jesus"???If I said that in order to save your life you'd ahve to do <insert some lame mundane task here> and you believed me, woudl that belief be enough or should you do the lame mundane task?

Faith without works is DEAD Spock, it means absolutely nothing... I understand where you are coming from, I really do, I just see no evidence in the Bible that simply believing that God is real is enough to be saved without any action behind it...

Jesus told the apostles to baptize all people in His name in Matthew 28:19, why? Well, according to Peter, it is because baptism is for remission of sins...

The real question here is why, if it is factually in the Bible as much as it is, you refuse to be baptized in Jesus' name...

The real question here is why, if it is factually in the Bible as much as it is, you refuse to believe that someone who has been baptized in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost is not saved. The "name" as it is used in the greek means authority or power. It's not used in the sense of what a person goes by, like Bob, or Mike, or Larry. The name (authority or power) of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost is the same name (authority or power) of Jesus. Again, it's ludicrous to tell people who profess belief in Jesus Christ, and serve Christ continually, and produce good fruit in the lives, that they are going to hell because of technicalities of the words that were uttered when they were baptized.

or that people who were baptized in the name of the Taco, The Burrito or The Enchilada are more damned than those baptized just in the name of the Taco (or the Burrito, I always get confused as to which tasty Mexican dish Jesus is)

The Passion of the Chalupa.