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The Essence of Being Human - what is it? (1 Viewer)

Pick one

  • Mind

    Votes: 9 20.0%

  • Body

    Votes: 1 2.2%

  • Soul

    Votes: 5 11.1%

  • Mind + Body

    Votes: 11 24.4%

  • Mind + Soul

    Votes: 7 15.6%

  • Body + Soul

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Mind + Body + Soul

    Votes: 12 26.7%
  • Total voters
    45
S

Sinn Fein

Footballguy
What is it that makes a human, human?

Its not hard to imagine a world where "humans" and machines evolve, and intertwine to the point that in the not too distant future it may be hard to distinguish the two - sort of like the hosts in HBO's Westworld.

Can you take a human mind, and attach it to machinery, and still be "human"?  I am guessing Ted Williams is hoping for this.  What about the reverse - take a supercomputer of sorts and attach it to a "living" body?  Or, can you manufacture everything - like the Westworld Hosts - and eventually achieve a level of conscience similar/same as current humans?

Can/will humans evolve into machines to prolong life - or will the machines be missing the magical/spiritual soul and thus live on as machines, while the human species goes extinct?  

 
Only mammals have a cerebral cortex.  Only humans have a highly developed, folded cerebral cortex that allows us enhanced memory, perception, and reasoning to overcome the primitive parts of our brain.  Well, dolphins have one as well but being water-based greatly limits everything they can achieve.

 
I voted mind + body.  I think it's more mind but if you transfer a human brain to a robot or a baboon or something I think you have to call it something else

 
Our precious bodily fluids, obvs.

"Women sense my power and they seek the life essence. I do not avoid women, Mandrake. But I do deny them my essence."

 
There are two different questions here.

1) What makes people special compared with animals and machines?

2) What makes you special compared with an exact replica of you? 

1) People are special because we have self awareness, senses, memory, pattern recognition, reason, prioritization, appreciation, preference and curiosity.

So, for example, when you say something simple like "I'm hungry", you are actually implying a lot more.  I am hungry means you have a sense of self. You experience the sensation of hunger.  You remember what the sensation means and that it happens periodically, usually a couple times a day, and gets stronger until you eat.  You have never actually died of hunger, yet you reason that you should resolve this urgently before it gets worse.  However, if there were other imminent danger, you would probably prioritize safety over hunger.  You enjoy certain flavors and when presented with multiple food options, you would choose the one you prefer.  And you might eat when you're not hungry, because you're curious what something tastes like.

That's a bit of an oversimplification, but those are hard barriers to overcome for a machine.  You can simulate preference using data - you get 10 happiness points for eating a cheeseburger and 5 for eating a salad, but you get 10 health points for the salad and just 2 for the burger.  But humans have evolved complex senses that give us preferences in an enormous number of things and we are rewarded through everything from dopamine to pain, in many cases for evolutionary pressures that don't even apply anymore.  

It would be very difficult to simulate all of those stimuli, and arguably unnecessary.  But it makes us a lot different from any existing AI because we have so many inputs.

The second question is more interesting to me.  If I could upload my entire consciousness into a real or simulated brain inside another physical human body, would that be me in their body, or thrm acting like me, or something else altogether?

If I got a heart transplant, I'm still me.  But what if I then get a liver, and a kidney, and eye transplants?  Brain surgery?  A partial brain transplant?  Complete?  If I maintain all my memories and preferences and act and feel the same and still think I'm me, am I still me?  If not, at what point does that change?

 
El Floppo said:
this feels like Sinn's been watching too much WW and listening to too much deathcab
Click to expand...
Its more than just that - just thinking about where we are headed.  Seems like AI is inevitable.  So, is that immortality?  Will we develop some form of sustainable AI before the species goes extinct?

Seems like space travel will ultimately depend on the ability to outlive our current bodies. :shrug:

 
Riversco said:
Only mammals have a cerebral cortex.  Only humans have a highly developed, folded cerebral cortex that allows us enhanced memory, perception, and reasoning to overcome the primitive parts of our brain.  Well, dolphins have one as well but being water-based greatly limits everything they can achieve.
Click to expand...
That, and no opposable thumbs.  Thats a big component in our evolution...

 
Sinn Fein said:
Seems like space travel will ultimately depend on the ability to outlive our current bodies. :shrug:
Click to expand...
Generation ships are a possibility although they are probably too costly.

If we consider the lightspeed a insurmountable barrier, than galactic expansion is likely a no go anyway.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Its more than just that - just thinking about where we are headed.  Seems like AI is inevitable.  So, is that immortality?  Will we develop some form of sustainable AI before the species goes extinct?

Seems like space travel will ultimately depend on the ability to outlive our current bodies. :shrug:
Click to expand...
we'd need to download everything out of our brain/nervous system first. 

I stand by my previous answer: empathy. and boobs.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Its more than just that - just thinking about where we are headed.  Seems like AI is inevitable.  So, is that immortality?  Will we develop some form of sustainable AI before the species goes extinct?

Seems like space travel will ultimately depend on the ability to outlive our current bodies. :shrug:
Click to expand...
When AI can feel hunger, the memory of hunger, the fear of being hungry again and the dream of ending hunger for ever & all simultaneously AND we've eliminated "god" as one of string theory's 11 dimensions, then I'll start to consider its eminence.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
wikkidpissah said:
When AI can feel hunger, the memory of hunger, the fear of being hungry again and the dream of ending hunger for ever & all simultaneously AND we've eliminated "god" as a one of string theory's 11 dimensions, then I'll start to consider its eminence.
Click to expand...
Eminence as early AI? That would explain a lot

 
Riversco said:
Only mammals have a cerebral cortex.  Only humans have a highly developed, folded cerebral cortex that allows us enhanced memory, perception, and reasoning to overcome the primitive parts of our brain.  Well, dolphins have one as well but being water-based greatly limits everything they can achieve.
Click to expand...
"Humans have one, too, but being land-based greatly limits everything they can achieve."  - dolphins  :P

 
The Human mind is so strong (relative to other mammals) that it created a soul to help it deal with the fear of non-existence.

The essence of being human?  The mind.

Death is the cognitive architect of faith.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sinn Fein said:
That, and no opposable thumbs.  Thats a big component in our evolution...
Click to expand...
You need something to finely manipulate small objects.  Tentacles might serve the same purpose as opposable thumbs. So some sort of Cthulu being could work with objects using its face tentacles.

 
bostonfred said:
There are two different questions here.

1) What makes people special compared with animals and machines?

2) What makes you special compared with an exact replica of you? 

1) People are special because we have self awareness, senses, memory, pattern recognition, reason, prioritization, appreciation, preference and curiosity.

So, for example, when you say something simple like "I'm hungry", you are actually implying a lot more.  I am hungry means you have a sense of self. You experience the sensation of hunger.  You remember what the sensation means and that it happens periodically, usually a couple times a day, and gets stronger until you eat.  You have never actually died of hunger, yet you reason that you should resolve this urgently before it gets worse.  However, if there were other imminent danger, you would probably prioritize safety over hunger.  You enjoy certain flavors and when presented with multiple food options, you would choose the one you prefer.  And you might eat when you're not hungry, because you're curious what something tastes like.

That's a bit of an oversimplification, but those are hard barriers to overcome for a machine.  You can simulate preference using data - you get 10 happiness points for eating a cheeseburger and 5 for eating a salad, but you get 10 health points for the salad and just 2 for the burger.  But humans have evolved complex senses that give us preferences in an enormous number of things and we are rewarded through everything from dopamine to pain, in many cases for evolutionary pressures that don't even apply anymore.  

It would be very difficult to simulate all of those stimuli, and arguably unnecessary.  But it makes us a lot different from any existing AI because we have so many inputs.

The second question is more interesting to me.  If I could upload my entire consciousness into a real or simulated brain inside another physical human body, would that be me in their body, or thrm acting like me, or something else altogether?

If I got a heart transplant, I'm still me.  But what if I then get a liver, and a kidney, and eye transplants?  Brain surgery?  A partial brain transplant?  Complete?  If I maintain all my memories and preferences and act and feel the same and still think I'm me, am I still me?  If not, at what point does that change?
Click to expand...
Your well thought out, contemplative post is appreciated.  

But I can't be the only one singing "I think I'm a clone now" 

Right? :oldunsure:

 
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