Eephus
Footballguy
I read this and Silence a long time ago and agree with your ranking of the two.
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The FBG Top 300 Books of All Time (fiction edition) | #18 Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy | Running list in posts #3 and #4 (13 Viewers)
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I read this and Silence a long time ago and agree with your ranking of the two.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I think I saw a couple of my favorite page-turners on that list today. Jurassic Park and Red Dragon I had pretty high on my list. JP was a big read in High School before the movie came out. I loved that it was a smart blockbuster in book form. It also kicked off me reading all the Chrichton I could. 3 of my 4 favorites are still the ones I read in HS - Sphere, Congo, and Jurassic Park . I have one other that is my personal favorite. I doubt we see it, but I will still shy away from naming it.
Red Dragon and Silence of the Lambs I read after seeing the movie for SotL. I agree with how the countdown played out, and I had Red Dragon rated higher. I think The Tooth Fairy is creeper than Buffalo Bill, and I like the tension of Lecter messing with Graham. Silence is a perfect movie and Starling is a character, but I like the dynamic of the person asking for Lector's help is the one that put him in jail to begin with. I remember being excited for the 3rd in the series, and thought it was OK. It's better than the movie anyway. Don't bother with Hannibal Rising, IMO.
I will bump Charlotte's Web way up the queue after reading the day's posts. I don't think I have read or watched any version of that.
Red Dragon and Silence of the Lambs I read after seeing the movie for SotL. I agree with how the countdown played out, and I had Red Dragon rated higher. I think The Tooth Fairy is creeper than Buffalo Bill, and I like the tension of Lecter messing with Graham. Silence is a perfect movie and Starling is a character, but I like the dynamic of the person asking for Lector's help is the one that put him in jail to begin with. I remember being excited for the 3rd in the series, and thought it was OK. It's better than the movie anyway. Don't bother with Hannibal Rising, IMO.
I will bump Charlotte's Web way up the queue after reading the day's posts. I don't think I have read or watched any version of that.
These are the three Crichton that I ranked as well.
kupcho1
Footballguy
Phase 4: Counting down from 100
We start off the top 100 with quite possibly the five most disparate books you could come up with.
It's Star Wars: Heir to the Empire again! (I swear if someone submitted Hair to the Empire and I missed it I will spontaneously combust.)
99. Star Wars: Heir to the Empire by Timothy Zahn
turnjose7: #2
Psychopav: #51
Total points: 155
Average: 77.5
(With
off the board, I went with ; 
was also a consideration)
99. The Stranger by Albert Camus
Psychopav: #25
Oliver Humanzee: #28
rockaction: #31
Frostillicus: #46
Total points: 155
Average: 38.8
(FYI, in the case of total points being the same, I ranked the book with more submissions as the higher ranked book.)
97. Misery by Stephen King
Dr. Octopus: #5
timschochet: #33
Total points: 158
Average: 79
97. Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson
TheBaylorKid: #6
kupcho1: #28
Total points: 158
Average: 79
96. The Winds of War by Herman Wouk
timschochet: #4
Eephus: #35
Total points: 161
Average: 80.5
I'll be back later to talk about Cryptonomicon. For now, talk amongst yourselves.
We start off the top 100 with quite possibly the five most disparate books you could come up with.
| 99 | Star Wars: Heir to the Empire | Timothy Zahn | turnjose7, Psychopav |
| The Stranger | Albert Camus | Frostillicus, Oliver Humanzee, Psychopav, rockaction | |
| 97 | Misery | Stephen King | timschochet, Dr. Octopus |
| Cryptonomicon | Neal Stephenson | kupcho1, TheBaylorKid | |
| 96 | The Winds of War | Herman Wouk | timschochet, Eephus |
It's Star Wars: Heir to the Empire again! (I swear if someone submitted Hair to the Empire and I missed it I will spontaneously combust.)
99. Star Wars: Heir to the Empire by Timothy Zahn
turnjose7: #2
Psychopav: #51
Total points: 155
Average: 77.5
(With
off the board, I went with ; was also a consideration)99. The Stranger by Albert Camus
Psychopav: #25
Oliver Humanzee: #28
rockaction: #31
Frostillicus: #46
Total points: 155
Average: 38.8
(FYI, in the case of total points being the same, I ranked the book with more submissions as the higher ranked book.)
97. Misery by Stephen King
Dr. Octopus: #5
timschochet: #33
Total points: 158
Average: 79
97. Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson
TheBaylorKid: #6
kupcho1: #28
Total points: 158
Average: 79
96. The Winds of War by Herman Wouk
timschochet: #4
Eephus: #35
Total points: 161
Average: 80.5
I'll be back later to talk about Cryptonomicon. For now, talk amongst yourselves.
Odd worlds, strange beings, bizarre science are all legit beefs people have with the genre. Some scifi really lays it on thick. It's understandable these are barriers for someone to connect. It hardly makes you a slack jawed yokel, not liking is different than not understanding. If anyone reads Hyperion and doesn't like it don't get mad at me. You should've listened to shuke.
I tried a different DS historical fiction but just found it ok.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Misery is one of Stephen King’s most chilling and psychologically intense novels. It tells the story of Paul Sheldon, a famous author who is rescued from a car crash by Annie Wilkes—a former nurse and his “number one fan.” What begins as a rescue quickly turns into a terrifying captivity, as Annie demands that Paul write a new novel bringing her favorite character back to life.
King masterfully builds suspense in a claustrophobic setting, relying more on psychological horror than supernatural thriller.
I was expecting this one to be a lot higher in these rankings. I ranked it right in the middle of some classic novels and don’t think it’s out of place.
King masterfully builds suspense in a claustrophobic setting, relying more on psychological horror than supernatural thriller.
I was expecting this one to be a lot higher in these rankings. I ranked it right in the middle of some classic novels and don’t think it’s out of place.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I’ve never read a King book before but if I did, this would probably be the one.
Chaos34
Footballguy
First Folio - William Shakespeare
I haven't read this whole thing. I ranked it #1 for some reasons not necessarily related to Shakespeare's plays. It's a compilation of 36. First Folio was both the text for and name of the advanced Shakespeare class I took as a sophomore in college. My hot English 1 teacher recommended me for the honor's program (lookatme). This brutal class was graduate level, and the only one in the program she taught. So I enrolled. Cuz she was hot, and I perceived that recommendation as a signal.
Hear my soul speak; the very moment that I saw you did my heart fly to your service.
A first printing recently sold for 10 million. There's about 230 in existence. The Folger Shakespeare Library has over 80, a few pristine ones valued between 15 and 20 million each. A very short list of other rarer first printings might be more valuable, but it could be the most valuable book out there.
My text purchased for the class in 1981 is the gold standard Norton Facsimile. With stunning visuals, the Folger Facsimile, is the better coffee table book. Both true to the original language and annoyingly difficult reading. Many modernized Complete Shakespeare's lose too much of the historical flavor. I recommend The Riverside for striking a perfect balance.
John Heminges and Henry Condell spent 7 years compiling the First Folio after the death of their friend William Shakespeare. It's believed as many as 18 plays would have been lost if not for their efforts. They and a few other contemporaries contributed to the introduction. They not only knew him, they shared the stage with him and for him, rehearsed for thousands of hours with him, watched him work, discussed his future works and broke bread with him daily. This is the information that makes anti-Stratfordian theories rubbish. This was important to the hot teacher, thus important to me.
Where for art thou, Miss Thorlaksson?
There's a poem written by some Ben Johnson in the introduction. He was a friend, writer and actor too.
From To the Memory of My Beloved the Author, Mr. William Shakespeare:
For a good poet's made, as well as born;
And such wert thou. Look how the father's face
Lives in his issue, even so the race
Of Shakespeare's mind and manners brightly shines
In his well-turned, and true-filed lines;
In each of which he seems to shake a lance,
As brandish'd at the eyes of ignorance.
Sweet Swan of Avon! what a sight it were
To see thee in our waters yet appear,
And make those flights upon the banks of Thames,
That so did take Eliza and our James!
See? This was published in 1623. Just typing that gives me pause. Shakespeare was the well-known soul of an age and a genius for all time.
I haven't read this whole thing. I ranked it #1 for some reasons not necessarily related to Shakespeare's plays. It's a compilation of 36. First Folio was both the text for and name of the advanced Shakespeare class I took as a sophomore in college. My hot English 1 teacher recommended me for the honor's program (lookatme). This brutal class was graduate level, and the only one in the program she taught. So I enrolled. Cuz she was hot, and I perceived that recommendation as a signal.
Hear my soul speak; the very moment that I saw you did my heart fly to your service.
A first printing recently sold for 10 million. There's about 230 in existence. The Folger Shakespeare Library has over 80, a few pristine ones valued between 15 and 20 million each. A very short list of other rarer first printings might be more valuable, but it could be the most valuable book out there.
My text purchased for the class in 1981 is the gold standard Norton Facsimile. With stunning visuals, the Folger Facsimile, is the better coffee table book. Both true to the original language and annoyingly difficult reading. Many modernized Complete Shakespeare's lose too much of the historical flavor. I recommend The Riverside for striking a perfect balance.
John Heminges and Henry Condell spent 7 years compiling the First Folio after the death of their friend William Shakespeare. It's believed as many as 18 plays would have been lost if not for their efforts. They and a few other contemporaries contributed to the introduction. They not only knew him, they shared the stage with him and for him, rehearsed for thousands of hours with him, watched him work, discussed his future works and broke bread with him daily. This is the information that makes anti-Stratfordian theories rubbish. This was important to the hot teacher, thus important to me.
Where for art thou, Miss Thorlaksson?
There's a poem written by some Ben Johnson in the introduction. He was a friend, writer and actor too.
From To the Memory of My Beloved the Author, Mr. William Shakespeare:
For a good poet's made, as well as born;
And such wert thou. Look how the father's face
Lives in his issue, even so the race
Of Shakespeare's mind and manners brightly shines
In his well-turned, and true-filed lines;
In each of which he seems to shake a lance,
As brandish'd at the eyes of ignorance.
Sweet Swan of Avon! what a sight it were
To see thee in our waters yet appear,
And make those flights upon the banks of Thames,
That so did take Eliza and our James!
See? This was published in 1623. Just typing that gives me pause. Shakespeare was the well-known soul of an age and a genius for all time.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
I think this is the novel that made people (book reviewers, especially) sit up and say "this guy can freaking write".
Chaos34
Footballguy
I've read one. The Green Mile. I thought it was fantastic. Some of you King readers will remember this better, but I think it was released over a period of three months in 5 or 6 sections. A dirty trick to make more sales, but it was a good read. I should have ranked it. The movie did it justice.
I like Misery but obviously didn't rank it despite ranking several King novels. I'll wait until my thread to explain why, but have no problem with people ranking it very highly. It's intense.
It's six sections. It was done in part, as you say, as a marketing gimmick, but also as an homage to Dickens who is one of King's favorite authors. King does make an argument in the foreword as to why it is actually better for the reader to release books this way (though I'm not sure how compelling of an argument it is).
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Chaos34
Footballguy
As a general rule I avoid horror, and this is why I avoided King (a mistake for sure). But this gimmick worked on me.
kupcho1
Footballguy
Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson
I was glad to see someone else rank this (quite highly, no less) so it made the top 300. Cryptonomicon focuses, in part, on cryptography (natch), but also explores privacy as well as cryptocurrency. The book was released in 1999 at the height of the dot com boom (bubble would be a better descriptor) and privacy had yet to emerge as a concern of the internet surfing public. We had yet to realize that if the product was free, we were the product. Cryptonomicon also anticipated Bitcoin (launched in 2009), although Stephenson backed his digital currency with a cache of gold rather than valuation as an act of faith.
From 34st.com:
I love a plot that ping pongs between eras. In addition to the dot com era, Cryptonomicon is also set in WWII where a whole host of real life figures (e.g., Alan Turing, Douglas MacArthur, Winston Churchill) pop up. Yes, there's a lot of focus on breaking Enigma. But there's also a bit of a heist story going on as well (hence the gold cache).
The other thing I love about Stephenson's work is how his fictional characters' descendants (or ancestors depending on which order you're reading his books) are a big part of the story. Doug Shaftoe (90's era), who is critical in creating the storage facility/currency haven, is the son of Bobby Shaftoe (WWII Marine) who carried out deceptions behind enemy lines to hide the fact that Enigma had been broken. BTW, they're all descendants of Half Cocked Jack Shaftoe (see: The Baroque Cycle).
This might sound strange, but I think fans of Brandon Sanderson's work (i.e., the Cosmere) would like Stephenson's fictional universe. In addition to Cryptonomicon and the Baroque Cycle books, some of his other works (Reamde and Fall; or, Dodge in Hell) are set in this universe as well.
There's not as much fantasy/science fiction involved, but there is some. If anyone can explain Enoch/Eli Root to me, I'd appreciate it.
I was glad to see someone else rank this (quite highly, no less) so it made the top 300. Cryptonomicon focuses, in part, on cryptography (natch), but also explores privacy as well as cryptocurrency. The book was released in 1999 at the height of the dot com boom (bubble would be a better descriptor) and privacy had yet to emerge as a concern of the internet surfing public. We had yet to realize that if the product was free, we were the product. Cryptonomicon also anticipated Bitcoin (launched in 2009), although Stephenson backed his digital currency with a cache of gold rather than valuation as an act of faith.
From 34st.com:
I love a plot that ping pongs between eras. In addition to the dot com era, Cryptonomicon is also set in WWII where a whole host of real life figures (e.g., Alan Turing, Douglas MacArthur, Winston Churchill) pop up. Yes, there's a lot of focus on breaking Enigma. But there's also a bit of a heist story going on as well (hence the gold cache).
The other thing I love about Stephenson's work is how his fictional characters' descendants (or ancestors depending on which order you're reading his books) are a big part of the story. Doug Shaftoe (90's era), who is critical in creating the storage facility/currency haven, is the son of Bobby Shaftoe (WWII Marine) who carried out deceptions behind enemy lines to hide the fact that Enigma had been broken. BTW, they're all descendants of Half Cocked Jack Shaftoe (see: The Baroque Cycle).
This might sound strange, but I think fans of Brandon Sanderson's work (i.e., the Cosmere) would like Stephenson's fictional universe. In addition to Cryptonomicon and the Baroque Cycle books, some of his other works (Reamde and Fall; or, Dodge in Hell) are set in this universe as well.
There's not as much fantasy/science fiction involved, but there is some. If anyone can explain Enoch/Eli Root to me, I'd appreciate it.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I get impatient during the novel within the novel parts. The ending of the book is freakier, though.
krista4
Footballguy
Phase 4: Counting down from 100
We start off the top 100 with quite possibly the five most disparate books you could come up with.
99 Star Wars: Heir to the Empire Timothy Zahn turnjose7, Psychopav The Stranger Albert Camus Frostillicus, Oliver Humanzee, Psychopav, rockaction 97 Misery Stephen King timschochet, Dr. Octopus Cryptonomicon Neal Stephenson kupcho1, TheBaylorKid 96 The Winds of War Herman Wouk timschochet, Eephus
It's Star Wars: Heir to the Empire again! (I swear if someone submitted Hair to the Empire and I missed it I will spontaneously combust.)
99. Star Wars: Heir to the Empire by Timothy Zahn
turnjose7: #2
Psychopav: #51
Total points: 155
Average: 77.5
(With
99. The Stranger by Albert Camus
Psychopav: #25
Oliver Humanzee: #28
rockaction: #31
Frostillicus: #46
Total points: 155
Average: 38.8
(FYI, in the case of total points being the same, I ranked the book with more submissions as the higher ranked book.)
97. Misery by Stephen King
Dr. Octopus: #5
timschochet: #33
Total points: 158
Average: 79
97. Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson
TheBaylorKid: #6
kupcho1: #28
Total points: 158
Average: 79
96. The Winds of War by Herman Wouk
timschochet: #4
Eephus: #35
Total points: 161
Average: 80.5
I'll be back later to talk about Cryptonomicon. For now, talk amongst yourselves.
krista4
Footballguy
Book/cook chat. Right now I'm watching a ton of garlic being sliced. He's really good at it. So fast. I would chop my fingertips off.
The Stranger by Albert Camus
This shows exactly the best way to elucidate a philosophical novel, where the point isn’t plot or structure but to instill in the reader a philosophical treatise, which is Camus’s existentialism. The best part is the priest who visits the man in prison, discussing the prisoner's crimes and the nature of good, who while representing a Christian point of view - a conventional morality - is a fully formed character, and a great foil for the anti-hero who kills someone because what does it matter. The cool part is you don't notice that he's building toward something, and just think it's a tense scene and dramatic. This form of novel can be the hardest to pull off, when it’s just a vehicle for an author’s ideas and own moral philosophy, as evidenced by the fact that Ayn Rand books exist. Everybody but the protagonists in an Ayn Rand novel are barely sentient beings who seem like they were kicked in the head by a horse. It’s my favorite book of its kind, and despite its rep, it’s surprisingly hopeful and strangely life-affirming. It takes a thinker as rigorous as Camus. It’s very rare to have such a clearly reasoned philosophy as well as being an excellent artist to be able to render it. Artists usually aren’t concerned with being precise in their epistemology.
The Stranger by Albert Camus
This shows exactly the best way to elucidate a philosophical novel, where the point isn’t plot or structure but to instill in the reader a philosophical treatise, which is Camus’s existentialism. The best part is the priest who visits the man in prison, discussing the prisoner's crimes and the nature of good, who while representing a Christian point of view - a conventional morality - is a fully formed character, and a great foil for the anti-hero who kills someone because what does it matter. The cool part is you don't notice that he's building toward something, and just think it's a tense scene and dramatic. This form of novel can be the hardest to pull off, when it’s just a vehicle for an author’s ideas and own moral philosophy, as evidenced by the fact that Ayn Rand books exist. Everybody but the protagonists in an Ayn Rand novel are barely sentient beings who seem like they were kicked in the head by a horse. It’s my favorite book of its kind, and despite its rep, it’s surprisingly hopeful and strangely life-affirming. It takes a thinker as rigorous as Camus. It’s very rare to have such a clearly reasoned philosophy as well as being an excellent artist to be able to render it. Artists usually aren’t concerned with being precise in their epistemology.
krista4
Footballguy
Some of the garlic is sitting with some sliced onions. Some of the other garlic has been applied to sweet potatoes, We love garlic.
A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man by James Joyce
Probably the greatest coming of age story. It’s an artist coming of age, not because he’s "becoming a man" as in traditional coming of age stories, but because he submits to his own creative impulses. James Joyce treats this as kind of a Greek myth in scope, but here what the hero learns is what can be done with language. This English that we all speak can communicate a range of both feeling and action that we just didn’t get before. No one ever used language like this before Joyce, so as Joyce realizes he has this awesome power at his fingertips, so did the protagonist. This was his first great work, but he had more in him to achieve even more. Just the daily doings of a day can be as rich or grand or important as a Greek epic. And it's treated as such – there’s a reason he’s Stephen Dedalus and Ulysses is Ulysses. The idea that the ordinary occurrences in one's day can include one’s thoughts, as though the thoughts happened to you like weather does, like an event that occurred. There was zero distinction between a character’s interior life and exterior life, at least to the character. It makes for difficult reading, but intensely rewarding. It feels like you inhabit another person and what is literature if not this great act of empathy and reckoning with another’s point of view.
A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man by James Joyce
Probably the greatest coming of age story. It’s an artist coming of age, not because he’s "becoming a man" as in traditional coming of age stories, but because he submits to his own creative impulses. James Joyce treats this as kind of a Greek myth in scope, but here what the hero learns is what can be done with language. This English that we all speak can communicate a range of both feeling and action that we just didn’t get before. No one ever used language like this before Joyce, so as Joyce realizes he has this awesome power at his fingertips, so did the protagonist. This was his first great work, but he had more in him to achieve even more. Just the daily doings of a day can be as rich or grand or important as a Greek epic. And it's treated as such – there’s a reason he’s Stephen Dedalus and Ulysses is Ulysses. The idea that the ordinary occurrences in one's day can include one’s thoughts, as though the thoughts happened to you like weather does, like an event that occurred. There was zero distinction between a character’s interior life and exterior life, at least to the character. It makes for difficult reading, but intensely rewarding. It feels like you inhabit another person and what is literature if not this great act of empathy and reckoning with another’s point of view.
krista4
Footballguy
Swiss chard has entered the chat.
The Trial by Franz Kafka
Very strange book. A complete novel, but it was published posthumously, and no one knows what order the chapters are supposed to go in and whether they were complete chapters. Though there’s something of a plot, one of the major themes is that the idea of free will is garbage, concomitant with the idea that there’s no real causality. Things happen, and there’s no reason. You so slowly get brought into this maddening bureaucracy that it never feels totally alien, and the reader, by degrees, sort of becomes convinced – or at least I did – that you’re waiting for a denouement, like what did this guy do, so you know whether you should be outraged on his behalf. But I don’t think the point is that Josef K was innocent, but instead that guilt and innocence don’t matter. The notion that we can be born into a world where we are doomed to die, and the only thing is suffering, is grandly, cosmically absurd. Therefore, how could any of our choices matter, since that is the most important fact and it wasn’t our choice. The notion of free will is false and petty, because what good is it if there’s no real choice.
Kafka is the grandfather of weird fiction largely because it’s not that the novel is so absurd - it’s that having read and absorbed the novel, our reality becomes infinitely stranger. Someone mentioned the David Foster Wallace essay on Kafka, and it’s important to note that, while the novel is nightmarish and bleak, it’s also really funny. As in life, which is both nightmarish and bleak but also hilarious.
The Trial by Franz Kafka
Very strange book. A complete novel, but it was published posthumously, and no one knows what order the chapters are supposed to go in and whether they were complete chapters. Though there’s something of a plot, one of the major themes is that the idea of free will is garbage, concomitant with the idea that there’s no real causality. Things happen, and there’s no reason. You so slowly get brought into this maddening bureaucracy that it never feels totally alien, and the reader, by degrees, sort of becomes convinced – or at least I did – that you’re waiting for a denouement, like what did this guy do, so you know whether you should be outraged on his behalf. But I don’t think the point is that Josef K was innocent, but instead that guilt and innocence don’t matter. The notion that we can be born into a world where we are doomed to die, and the only thing is suffering, is grandly, cosmically absurd. Therefore, how could any of our choices matter, since that is the most important fact and it wasn’t our choice. The notion of free will is false and petty, because what good is it if there’s no real choice.
Kafka is the grandfather of weird fiction largely because it’s not that the novel is so absurd - it’s that having read and absorbed the novel, our reality becomes infinitely stranger. Someone mentioned the David Foster Wallace essay on Kafka, and it’s important to note that, while the novel is nightmarish and bleak, it’s also really funny. As in life, which is both nightmarish and bleak but also hilarious.
Oliver Humanzee
Footballguy
I just started this! Its great! Like an interstellar Canterbury Tales!
timschochet
Footballguy
I find if I skip the novel and just listen to the Cure song (“Killing An Arab”) I get the same effect for far less time spent.
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
Some authors do a good job of providing enough context that you can figure things out. I have three scifi/fantasy books on my list that I am sure will be showing up that are examples of that. But with Hyperion I just felt lost.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Honestly I thought that I did too, but I guess I didn’t have strong feelings on the matter
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
I tried to read this and gave up. So I appreciate this summary because it explains why people love this book. Thanks for that.
The bolded brings it all to the point very nicely. I would even say that is the chief aim of all art, not just literature. Thanks again.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
I enjoyed Hyperion, but I'm sure that more than half of it went over my head
Simmons can sometimes too clever for his own good. He often likes to show ALL of his work. One of his novels has a 200 page diversion on how the Brooklyn Bridge was built, which has nothing to do with the rest of the book other than that one of the characters was on the construction crew for a while.
@Eephus mentioned The Crook Factory above, which I really liked.
Does Simmons publish anymore? Is he even alive?
kupcho1
Footballguy
Phase 4: Counting down from 100
Continuing on ...
In this set we have another #1 choice, 2 Pulitzer prize winners and, first up at #95, the feel good book of 2006.
95. The Road by Cormac McCarthy
TheBaylorKid: #35
guru_007: #36
chaos34: #38
shuke: #39
Frostillicus: #45
Total points: 162
Average: 32.4
92. The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle by Haruki Murakami
krista4: #1
Oliver Humanzee: #46
Total points: 165
Average: 82.5
92. The Caine Mutiny by Herman Wouk
timschochet: #2
Don Quixote: #41
Total points: 165
Average: 82.5
92. The Color Purple by Alice Walker
KeithR: #15
Don Quixote: #25
krista4: #27
Total points: 165
Average: 55.0
There is only one more time that we'll have 3 books tied in the rankings, so I'll leave it at 4 books for today.
I'm a big Murakami fan, but I went with another book 1Q84. It's a mind-bender and I get why I'm on an island with that one. I also enjoyed each of the other 3 books. I think this is the first time that I've put up a list where I've read all of the books. Unless I game the system (I won't), this won't happen again until we reach the top of the list.
Continuing on ...
| 95 | The Road | Cormac McCarthy | guru_007, chaos34, TheBaylorKid, Frostillicus, shuke |
| 92 | The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle | Haruki Murakami | Oliver Humanzee, krista4 |
| The Caine Mutiny | Herman Wouk | timschochet, Don Quixote | |
| The Color Purple | Alice Walker | Don Quixote, KeithR, krista4 |
In this set we have another #1 choice, 2 Pulitzer prize winners and, first up at #95, the feel good book of 2006.
95. The Road by Cormac McCarthy
TheBaylorKid: #35
guru_007: #36
chaos34: #38
shuke: #39
Frostillicus: #45
Total points: 162
Average: 32.4
92. The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle by Haruki Murakami
krista4: #1
Oliver Humanzee: #46
Total points: 165
Average: 82.5
92. The Caine Mutiny by Herman Wouk
timschochet: #2
Don Quixote: #41
Total points: 165
Average: 82.5
92. The Color Purple by Alice Walker
KeithR: #15
Don Quixote: #25
krista4: #27
Total points: 165
Average: 55.0
There is only one more time that we'll have 3 books tied in the rankings, so I'll leave it at 4 books for today.
I'm a big Murakami fan, but I went with another book 1Q84. It's a mind-bender and I get why I'm on an island with that one. I also enjoyed each of the other 3 books. I think this is the first time that I've put up a list where I've read all of the books. Unless I game the system (I won't), this won't happen again until we reach the top of the list.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Phase 4: Counting down from 100
Continuing on ...
95 The Road Cormac McCarthy guru_007, chaos34, TheBaylorKid, Frostillicus, shuke 92 The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle Haruki Murakami Oliver Humanzee, krista4 The Caine Mutiny Herman Wouk timschochet, Don Quixote The Color Purple Alice Walker Don Quixote, KeithR, krista4
In this set we have another #1 choice, 2 Pulitzer prize winners and, first up at #95, the feel good book of 2006.
95. The Road by Cormac McCarthy
TheBaylorKid: #35
guru_007: #36
chaos34: #38
shuke: #39
Frostillicus: #45
Total points: 162
Average: 32.4
92. The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle by Haruki Murakami
krista4: #1
Oliver Humanzee: #46
Total points: 165
Average: 82.5
92. The Caine Mutiny by Herman Wouk
timschochet: #2
Don Quixote: #41
Total points: 165
Average: 82.5
92. The Color Purple by Alice Walker
KeithR: #15
Don Quixote: #25
krista4: #27
Total points: 165
Average: 55.0
There is only one more time that we'll have 3 books tied in the rankings, so I'll leave it at 4 books for today.
I'm a big Murakami fan, but I went with another book 1Q84. It's a mind-bender and I get why I'm on an island with that one. I also enjoyed each of the other 3 books. I think this is the first time that I've put up a list where I've read all of the books. Unless I game the system (I won't), this won't happen again until we reach the top of the list.
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
I enjoyed Hyperion, but I'm sure that more than half of it went over my head
Simmons can sometimes too clever for his own good. He often likes to show ALL of his work. One of his novels has a 200 page diversion on how the Brooklyn Bridge was built, which has nothing to do with the rest of the book other than that one of the characters was on the construction crew for a while.
@Eephus mentioned The Crook Factory above, which I really liked.
Does Simmons publish anymore? Is he even alive?
I have one Simmons book that I ranked and another that was in the last 50 out. So I don't think my issue is specifically with him, but rather books that depict other worlds that I don't have familiarity with, so it makes it difficult for me to ground myself as an empathetic reader. But this also deters me from reading a lot of books that are set in other eras in other countries. Like if a story was set in 1500's Asia, I'd be afraid I'd be spending too much mental energy trying to figure out the where and what of the time rather than engrossing myself in the story.
I'm not sure if that will make complete sense to anyone else.
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
I finished The Road while on a flight, and had trouble stopping myself from bawling like a baby.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
only bad thing about this thread.
TheBaylorKid
Footballguy
How I thought about it in my ranking
1. Was it predictable - no
2: did it cause me to read more - yes read more McCarthy books
3. Do I want to read it again? Oh heck no, too emotionally draining, too sad, gut wrenching
Frostillicus
Footballguy
I don't know about all this (because I'm not smart enough) but this book really stuck with me for days after I had finished it. I barely remember what happens in most of the book but I still remember the feeling.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
I also had the Road on my list. Similar feelings to The Stranger.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
The Road would have gotten a bit of a bump if I got my list it. Top 5 book for me. I read 2 books in the late 00s that just floored me. As a new father, The Road was one of them. I tear up or cry at just about anything - movies, shows, random stars breaking goal records, etc... but for some reason rarely books. This one was the exception. Bleak and punishing, and honestly I am not a fan of Cormac's writing style. I have tried a few novels of his without success, but this one I have read just about every year since then - I also rarely read a book more than once. I lean heavily to apocalyptic/dystopian type of fiction, and on top of that you get a gut punch of a novel of a man and his son in that very messed up world. It's been a couple years, so as this thread started up I brought out my copy and planned another read soon.
First I wanted to get through some books I got because of this thread and speaking of gut punch books, I have been slowly getting through Being Dead.
ETA: the other book I mentioned I read at that time was from the 80s and I haven't seen it come up yet.
First I wanted to get through some books I got because of this thread and speaking of gut punch books, I have been slowly getting through Being Dead.
ETA: the other book I mentioned I read at that time was from the 80s and I haven't seen it come up yet.
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timschochet
Footballguy
The Caine Mutiny
The Winds of War/War and Remembrance
Herman Wouk
So so good. For my money, historical novels, World War II fiction, legal thriller (in the first instance), military novels, family dramas, novels about the Holocaust….these are the top of the list for ALL of those categories, it doesn’t get any better. Wouk is an epic storyteller at the top of his game. Michener was great but can’t quite compare. Uris was great but can’t quite compare. Clavell comes close and one of his books (Shogun) rises above but overall he can’t quite compare. Wouk is at the top of this genre, clearly, the 20th century epic historical fiction novelist. Mainly for these three works.
The Winds of War/War and Remembrance
Herman Wouk
So so good. For my money, historical novels, World War II fiction, legal thriller (in the first instance), military novels, family dramas, novels about the Holocaust….these are the top of the list for ALL of those categories, it doesn’t get any better. Wouk is an epic storyteller at the top of his game. Michener was great but can’t quite compare. Uris was great but can’t quite compare. Clavell comes close and one of his books (Shogun) rises above but overall he can’t quite compare. Wouk is at the top of this genre, clearly, the 20th century epic historical fiction novelist. Mainly for these three works.
Keith R
The Don
I'm the high scorer for The Color Purple. I agree that it is a heavy read and reading it once in a lifetime is enough, unlike some novels I've revisited. It is extremely raw from the start and will always stick with me. The first half is written in a style I had never seen before (I have seen it since in
Dracula
Ilov80s
Footballguy
That epistolary style novel usually doesn’t work for me in the few examples I’ve read or tried to read. I am not sure if The Color Purple worked because of it or in spite of it but the book sure did leave an impression. But as you said, once was enough. What did you think of either the movie adaptations?
Eephus
Footballguy
I ranked The Winds of War smack dab in the middle at #35. I preferred it to its wartime sequel because the scope of the latter was a little too big for even a master like Wouk. He's an excellent craftsman with well structured plots, descriptions and sentences. The series is massive but Wouk is eminently readable.
I also ranked his Youngblood Hawke at #25. It's Wouk's take on the Great American Novel with a whirlwind of a title character loosely based on Thomas Wolfe.
Keith R
The Don
I liked the Spielberg adaptation very much. Whoopi Goldberg was a very good Celie, easily the best work of her career. I haven't seen the musical.
krista4
Footballguy
What's strange is how occasionally it looks OK. Oh well.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I agree, the Spielberg was really good. I was extremely disappointed by the recent musical. I don’t think it’s worth seeking out.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Collected Fictions AKA Ficciones by Jorge Luis Borges
My hardcover copy of this book is titled Collected Fictions, though I do see it as Ficciones a lot. I was first introduced to Borges during a creative writing class in college, where we read the story The Aleph. I was hooked from that moment. The professor in that class (who was kind of a ****) told a story about Borges, who purportedly was fairly blind and deaf at the time, giving a lecture on the three Walt Whitmans. The attendees could ask questions at the end, which had to be repeated by the moderator very loudly. The professor stood up and asked Who are the three Borges’? Borges immediately grabbed the mic and said “there is no Borges!”
Possibly apocryphal but too good not to believe and it does encapsulate much of what Borges and his stories are about. He was a poet, short story writer, literary critic and general intellectual pundit, who wrote many stories featuring characters like that. He engaged in a lot of metafiction, referring to numerous made-up works. The themes he generally wrote about include: the interconnectedness of all things, the tension of being cognizant of the past and future but also experiencing the only one specific moment at a time, memory and its impact on perception, the fact that our understanding reality is fundamentally an individual interpretation rather than a direct connection, infinity and the circularity of the universe, among others…
The collection has all of his stories, around 100, including
The Aleph, which is about a point in space that contains all points in the universe and happens to be in the basement of his neighbor
Funes , His Memory, about a man who has a perfect memory but the cost that comes from that because he can never distinguish what is happening in the present and he also has to creates specific words for everything, like a different term for a dog at 3:14 and for the same dog at 3:15
Pierre Menard, Author of Don Quixote, about a man who sets out to write Don Quixote, not another Quixote but the Quixote, a Quixotic endeavor to be sure and if the universe is infinite, why shouldn’t the exact same thing happen twice?
To name a few. His stories are deceptively simple and rarely have all that much action. But he has a way of writing that captures the inferences of what is unsaid and somehow intimates the multiple layers of interpretation that are perpetually occurring for all of us.
A couple of cool books with Borges as a subject are:
Borges and Me, a memoir by Jay Parini about his time as a student in Scotland when Borges happened to be there and the time that Parini got to spend traveling with him
And
The Rigor of Angels, tying together the themes in the work of Borges with the ideas of Kant and with the scientific breakthroughs of Heisenberg. (Though frankly I found the Heisenberg portion a little lacking and overall not that much new insight about the conceptual overlaps among these three men’s works, though I had already read and thought a lot about it).
Anyway, if anyone were to ask me my favorite author, it would be Borges.
My hardcover copy of this book is titled Collected Fictions, though I do see it as Ficciones a lot. I was first introduced to Borges during a creative writing class in college, where we read the story The Aleph. I was hooked from that moment. The professor in that class (who was kind of a ****) told a story about Borges, who purportedly was fairly blind and deaf at the time, giving a lecture on the three Walt Whitmans. The attendees could ask questions at the end, which had to be repeated by the moderator very loudly. The professor stood up and asked Who are the three Borges’? Borges immediately grabbed the mic and said “there is no Borges!”
Possibly apocryphal but too good not to believe and it does encapsulate much of what Borges and his stories are about. He was a poet, short story writer, literary critic and general intellectual pundit, who wrote many stories featuring characters like that. He engaged in a lot of metafiction, referring to numerous made-up works. The themes he generally wrote about include: the interconnectedness of all things, the tension of being cognizant of the past and future but also experiencing the only one specific moment at a time, memory and its impact on perception, the fact that our understanding reality is fundamentally an individual interpretation rather than a direct connection, infinity and the circularity of the universe, among others…
The collection has all of his stories, around 100, including
The Aleph, which is about a point in space that contains all points in the universe and happens to be in the basement of his neighbor
Funes , His Memory, about a man who has a perfect memory but the cost that comes from that because he can never distinguish what is happening in the present and he also has to creates specific words for everything, like a different term for a dog at 3:14 and for the same dog at 3:15
Pierre Menard, Author of Don Quixote, about a man who sets out to write Don Quixote, not another Quixote but the Quixote, a Quixotic endeavor to be sure and if the universe is infinite, why shouldn’t the exact same thing happen twice?
To name a few. His stories are deceptively simple and rarely have all that much action. But he has a way of writing that captures the inferences of what is unsaid and somehow intimates the multiple layers of interpretation that are perpetually occurring for all of us.
A couple of cool books with Borges as a subject are:
Borges and Me, a memoir by Jay Parini about his time as a student in Scotland when Borges happened to be there and the time that Parini got to spend traveling with him
And
The Rigor of Angels, tying together the themes in the work of Borges with the ideas of Kant and with the scientific breakthroughs of Heisenberg. (Though frankly I found the Heisenberg portion a little lacking and overall not that much new insight about the conceptual overlaps among these three men’s works, though I had already read and thought a lot about it).
Anyway, if anyone were to ask me my favorite author, it would be Borges.
krista4
Footballguy
Well, I was afraid I'd be writing up my #1 book, The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle by Haruki Murakami, sooner than I would have liked. I knew it was on OH's list, and I had some hope that maybe it would at least get a third vote, but here we are.
I struggled putting my list together, because I don't have a second- or third-favorite book. I have only a favorite book. After this one, the order doesn't matter.
@Long Ball Larry , as a Murakami-curious fellow, this is the one I recommend most strongly by far. I still think you might wish to dip your toe into the short stories, and the collection "The Elephant Vanishes" made my list at #36, but if you're feeling crazy, just jump right into this 600+-page masterpiece instead.
A description of the plot would read like one of the joke descriptions I posted when I talked about Murakami earlier. Meek man looks for his missing cat, and later his wife. Sometimes he sits in an abandoned well and thinks. He also talks with a teenager about death, and sometimes life.
Of course, there's a whole lot more to it than that, but I find that the plots of Murakami's books aren't important. The plots are there, sorta, but the work is meant to invoke deeper emotions, like you're on a journey where there might not be a particular destination but you're meant to enjoy the scenery along the way. It's best just to read his books and let them wash over you. As I mentioned before, they can conjure a dreamlike state not just in the characters, but in yourself. While there is something of a structure to the journey for the protagonist, the situations are often surreal. Both you and the protagonist will be questioning what is real. It could lead to confusion, but somehow I've always found that it made sense to me. As if you're in a dream and know you're in a dream because of certain aspects not being possible, but in another way it also seems fully realistic.
Why this one, then? It's as difficult to describe as it is to describe his writing itself, but this one conjured all of the usual Murakami-induced feelings - particularly alienation/solitude, grief, and the desperate search for meaning - more strongly than any of his other brilliant works. While it has plenty of his usual fantastical elements, it's also grounded enough that I could relate to it in the midst of the surrealism. The following passage, from a letter written by the teenager I mentioned, is one of my favorites and also happens to be an apt description of the Murakami writing style:
"Anyway, it seems to me that the way most people go on living… they think that the world or life (or whatever) is this place where everything is (or is supposed to be) basically logical or consistent… ‘A is like this, so that’s why B happened.’ I mean, that doesn’t explain anything. It’s like when you put instant rice pudding mix in the microwave and push the button, and you take the cover off when it rings, and there you’ve got rice pudding. I mean, what happens in between the time when you push the switch and the microwave rings? You can’t tell what’s going on under the cover. Maybe the instant rice pudding first turns into macaroni cheese in the darkness when nobody’s looking and only then turns back into rice pudding. We think it’s only natural to get rice pudding after we put rice pudding mix in the microwave and the bell rings, but to me, that is just a presumption. I would be kind of relieved if, every once in a while, after you put rice pudding mix in the microwave and it rang and you opened the top, you got macaroni gratin. I suppose I’d be shocked, of course, but I don’t know, I think I’d be kind of relieved too. Or at least I think I wouldn’t be so upset, because that would feel, in some ways, a whole lot more real."
I eagerly await OH's cooking tomorrow night so that he can talk about this more persuasively than I am.
I struggled putting my list together, because I don't have a second- or third-favorite book. I have only a favorite book. After this one, the order doesn't matter.
@Long Ball Larry , as a Murakami-curious fellow, this is the one I recommend most strongly by far. I still think you might wish to dip your toe into the short stories, and the collection "The Elephant Vanishes" made my list at #36, but if you're feeling crazy, just jump right into this 600+-page masterpiece instead.
A description of the plot would read like one of the joke descriptions I posted when I talked about Murakami earlier. Meek man looks for his missing cat, and later his wife. Sometimes he sits in an abandoned well and thinks. He also talks with a teenager about death, and sometimes life.
Of course, there's a whole lot more to it than that, but I find that the plots of Murakami's books aren't important. The plots are there, sorta, but the work is meant to invoke deeper emotions, like you're on a journey where there might not be a particular destination but you're meant to enjoy the scenery along the way. It's best just to read his books and let them wash over you. As I mentioned before, they can conjure a dreamlike state not just in the characters, but in yourself. While there is something of a structure to the journey for the protagonist, the situations are often surreal. Both you and the protagonist will be questioning what is real. It could lead to confusion, but somehow I've always found that it made sense to me. As if you're in a dream and know you're in a dream because of certain aspects not being possible, but in another way it also seems fully realistic.
Why this one, then? It's as difficult to describe as it is to describe his writing itself, but this one conjured all of the usual Murakami-induced feelings - particularly alienation/solitude, grief, and the desperate search for meaning - more strongly than any of his other brilliant works. While it has plenty of his usual fantastical elements, it's also grounded enough that I could relate to it in the midst of the surrealism. The following passage, from a letter written by the teenager I mentioned, is one of my favorites and also happens to be an apt description of the Murakami writing style:
"Anyway, it seems to me that the way most people go on living… they think that the world or life (or whatever) is this place where everything is (or is supposed to be) basically logical or consistent… ‘A is like this, so that’s why B happened.’ I mean, that doesn’t explain anything. It’s like when you put instant rice pudding mix in the microwave and push the button, and you take the cover off when it rings, and there you’ve got rice pudding. I mean, what happens in between the time when you push the switch and the microwave rings? You can’t tell what’s going on under the cover. Maybe the instant rice pudding first turns into macaroni cheese in the darkness when nobody’s looking and only then turns back into rice pudding. We think it’s only natural to get rice pudding after we put rice pudding mix in the microwave and the bell rings, but to me, that is just a presumption. I would be kind of relieved if, every once in a while, after you put rice pudding mix in the microwave and it rang and you opened the top, you got macaroni gratin. I suppose I’d be shocked, of course, but I don’t know, I think I’d be kind of relieved too. Or at least I think I wouldn’t be so upset, because that would feel, in some ways, a whole lot more real."
I eagerly await OH's cooking tomorrow night so that he can talk about this more persuasively than I am.
krista4
Footballguy
Wait, Borges didn't come up again yet, did he? I don't think I owe an OH write-up for that yet? It wouldn't be as good as Larry's was anyway.
I see I also had The Color Purple from my list today. Looks like there's already been good discussion there. This book had an incredible impact on me when I read it, the first novel I recall reading that was written by a Black woman. The power and strength of her voice, through the ugliness and the beauty of the characters, was astounding. I agree that the Spielberg adaptation was excellent, too.
I see I also had The Color Purple from my list today. Looks like there's already been good discussion there. This book had an incredible impact on me when I read it, the first novel I recall reading that was written by a Black woman. The power and strength of her voice, through the ugliness and the beauty of the characters, was astounding. I agree that the Spielberg adaptation was excellent, too.
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