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The Johan Santana rumor mill (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Doctor Detroit
- Start date
pigskin pimp
Footballguy
So does Santana bat 9th or 8th in the lineup? Johan's bat may be better than Schneider's.
Kidding aside, good luck Met fans. Hope he works magic for you this year. For that kind of money, he better, huh?
Kidding aside, good luck Met fans. Hope he works magic for you this year. For that kind of money, he better, huh?
Koya
Footballguy
It's a lot of money, but the guy at least has earned it. He is in his prime and is the best pitcher in baseball (although best post season has to go to Beckett who's been stupid in crunch time). The other guys who got 100M contract as pitchers were K bad back Brown, Barry Overpaid Zito, Mike Overated Hampton and Carlos Zambrano - who good as he may be, is not Santana and his last two years have not been uber by any stretch.
Can anyone come up with a better #4 Starter than Oliver Perez?
Darth Cheney
Footballguy
That's a nice signing by the Mets and he'll keep that dysfunctional, overrated, can't handle the pressure team in the race until at least mid August.
Koya
Footballguy
Sorry to disappoint, but Santana is the late '00s version of hernandez. Great on the field, great on the clubhouse - the type of glue that brings a young team together and propels them over the top.
Darth Cheney
Footballguy
We'll see...but it's not like the Phils haven't made pitching improvments of their own.
Koya
Footballguy
Pitching improvements are nice.Santana, a top 3 pitcher in baseball and arguably the best in baseball is a lot more than nice.
Darth Cheney
Footballguy
Noone discounts Santana...but that team has very little heart. They could have gone back in time and brought back a young Tom Seaver and I still wouldn't annoint them the favorites in the NL East.
Koya
Footballguy
The team that had no heart no longer has the most heartless component - Glavine. Yeah, it was an awful, historic collapse. Getting rid of Paul the Mouth LoDuca and Tom "I really don't care if we win... really" Glavine and by adding Schneider behind the plate along with baseball's best pitcher? This is a different team. One can try to point to last year seeing as there isn't much else to go on - because the present and future look fantastic. The Phillies had their chance - but then they choked after the Mets did. Not exactly a bastion of heart in the postseason.
Extremely
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
Heart is so overrated. The Red Sox had NO heart constantly losing to the Yanks and then they were down 3 games to none and everyone said they had no heart. then they get some good performances and they win and then win 4 against the weak NL and they have guts and heart??? Please, this is akin to winning means heart and losing means choke. Any chance there is some middle ground?Extremely
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Darth Cheney
Footballguy
I disagree; heart is not overrated. The Mets lost that lead because they didn't have "it". They had talent. They had veterans. They didn't have "it". The same with the 04 Yanks. Once the series got back to Yankee Stadium....a home team with "it" wins one of those games. You could see the difference between the 04 Sox and Yanks just by looking at the players faces.Heart is so overrated. The Red Sox had NO heart constantly losing to the Yanks and then they were down 3 games to none and everyone said they had no heart. then they get some good performances and they win and then win 4 against the weak NL and they have guts and heart??? Please, this is akin to winning means heart and losing means choke. Any chance there is some middle ground?Extremely
Koya
Footballguy
Not only does heart matter, but for a STARTING PITCHER it means SO much more. If the Mets had Santana, they would not have lost last year. He would have come up 2 or 3 times during that final stretch and he would have WILLED his team to victory. Instead, we had Glavine who obviously did not really care all that much - his manuerisms and comments after the fact confirm this.I disagree; heart is not overrated. The Mets lost that lead because they didn't have "it". They had talent. They had veterans. They didn't have "it". The same with the 04 Yanks. Once the series got back to Yankee Stadium....a home team with "it" wins one of those games. You could see the difference between the 04 Sox and Yanks just by looking at the players faces.Heart is so overrated. The Red Sox had NO heart constantly losing to the Yanks and then they were down 3 games to none and everyone said they had no heart. then they get some good performances and they win and then win 4 against the weak NL and they have guts and heart??? Please, this is akin to winning means heart and losing means choke. Any chance there is some middle ground?Extremely
Koya
Footballguy
Would that rotation include Walter Johnson, Sandy Koufax and Jim Palmer?
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
I disagree; heart is not overrated. The Mets lost that lead because they didn't have "it". They had talent. They had veterans. They didn't have "it". The same with the 04 Yanks. Once the series got back to Yankee Stadium....a home team with "it" wins one of those games. You could see the difference between the 04 Sox and Yanks just by looking at the players faces.Heart is so overrated. The Red Sox had NO heart constantly losing to the Yanks and then they were down 3 games to none and everyone said they had no heart. then they get some good performances and they win and then win 4 against the weak NL and they have guts and heart??? Please, this is akin to winning means heart and losing means choke. Any chance there is some middle ground?Extremely
This is what everyone said about Eli also; "you can see IT in his face!"Think about how ludicrous what you are saying is...EVERY player doesn't have heart on the Mets??? The Yanks in 04 had not heart? Jeter, Posada, Bernie, El Duke and Rivera had no heart? The Yanks were up 8-0 in game 1 and the Red Sox scored 7 runs in two innings to close within a run and instead of showing no heart, the Yanks countered with 2 runs and won. Then they won the next two games. Then, because Rivera who clearly has no heart, blew back to back saves, the Yanks lost in extra innings and then lost a tough game 6 even though they rallied from 4-0 but fell short before losing in 7 they had no heart??? Are you kidding?Watch this year with Santana, if the Mets stay healthy they will get into the playoffs, and it won't be because they have heart or team chemistry, it will be because they are talented and healthy.Darth Cheney
Footballguy
NO YOU'RE WRONG!!! ( I was able to say it in alot fewer words)I disagree; heart is not overrated. The Mets lost that lead because they didn't have "it". They had talent. They had veterans. They didn't have "it". The same with the 04 Yanks. Once the series got back to Yankee Stadium....a home team with "it" wins one of those games. You could see the difference between the 04 Sox and Yanks just by looking at the players faces.Heart is so overrated. The Red Sox had NO heart constantly losing to the Yanks and then they were down 3 games to none and everyone said they had no heart. then they get some good performances and they win and then win 4 against the weak NL and they have guts and heart??? Please, this is akin to winning means heart and losing means choke. Any chance there is some middle ground?Extremely
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
Liquid Tension
Darth CheneyWas that from your heart?
EZD222
Footballguy
From Ken Rosenthal
The terms of the Johan Santana contract are more favorable to the Mets than what was originally reported.The contract is for six years, including 2008, according to a copy of the deal obtained by FOXSports.com. It is not a six-year extension on top of the one year left on his previous deal. Santana will receive an increase from $13.25 million to $19 million this season under the new terms.
Also, the present-day value of the deal is $123.1 million, not $137.5 million, according to the players' union. The Mets will defer $5 million per season with 1.25 percent compounded interest, making the deal less expensive in current dollars.
Santana's contract, then, is not as dramatic a leap from Carlos Zambrano's deal with the Cubs as it initially appeared. Under the revised calculation, Santana's average salary drops from $22.9 million to $20.5 million. Zambrano's present-day average, according to the union, is $18.6 million — a higher number than indicated by his five-year, $91.5 million contract because he received a $5 million signing bonus, and upfront money is more valuable than deferred.
Santana also has a $25 million club option for 2014 that will become a player option if any of the following occurs:
The present-day value of Johan Santana's $137.5 million contract is $123.1 million. (Jim McIsaac / Getty Images)
He wins the Cy Young Award in any season from 2008 to '13 and finishes second or third in any other year;
He finishes second or third in the Cy Young voting in any three of the six years during his deal;
He pitches 215 innings in 2013 and is on the active roster (not including disabled list) throughout the final 30 days of that season.
He pitches 420 innings combined in 2012 and '13 and is on the active roster throughout the final 30 days of the final season.
He pitches 630 innings combined in 2011, '12 and '13 and is on the active roster throughout the final 30 days of the final season.
All of those thresholds seem within Santana's reach — he pitched 219 or more innings in each of the past four seasons in the more offensive-oriented American League, and will be 34 in the final year of his contract.
quote]
This just keeps getting better and better for us Mets fans.
NY/NJMFDIVER
Footballguy
Sorry for all the other bumps guys, this is the one I was looking for, and one of our longer topics ever, so I figured this deserved an archival bump.
Darth Cheney
Footballguy
I guess heart and team chemistry won out.
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