The Kolb Thread (1 Viewer)

[mawaru]

Lots of articles talk about Kolb's upside but his pre-season games so far aren't telling me this. Are you guys seeing something different? Against the Chiefs, Kolb made many bad reads, throwing ill-advised throws and getting sacked 4 times. I will admit though, he probably has the highest potential (given that he's in Reid's west coast offense) and probably has the highest ceiling of all the QB2s.

Thoughts?

Anyone think other QBs have higher upside?

 

[LordHusker]

I would not feel good at all with Kolb as my QB1.

 

[ThePhillyPhanatic]

I would not feel good at all with Kolb as my QB1.

Based solely off of his preseason?The thing that I've noticed about Kolb is that he relies a lot on gameplan, preparation, and focus. Without preparation, he doesn't seem to do well at all. The times he's had to prepare for an important game, he's done fairly good. During this preseason, I've heard the announcers constantly point out how poised and confident Kevin Kolb is and that he doesn't let the bad get to him. I bet Kolb does better when the games become important and meaningful.I'm not saying Kolb will have a +30 TD season but I wouldn't be surprised to see him flirt with 25. My worry is the Eagles' O, not Kolb.It's amazing how players' value drop so low or rise high just because of the preseason. A lot of people were saying Kolb would make an Aaron Rodgers type rookie (starter) impact and now there's been a complete 180 in evaluation. Let's just wait until the season starts.

 

[brainee]

The thing that I've noticed about Kolb is that he relies a lot on gameplan, preparation, and focus. Without preparation, he doesn't seem to do well at all. The times he's had to prepare for an important game, he's done fairly good. During this preseason, I've heard the announcers constantly point out how poised and confident Kevin Kolb is and that he doesn't let the bad get to him. I bet Kolb does better when the games become important and meaningful.I'm not saying Kolb will have a +30 TD season but I wouldn't be surprised to see him flirt with 25. My worry is the Eagles' O, not Kolb.It's amazing how players' value drop so low or rise high just because of the preseason. A lot of people were saying Kolb would make an Aaron Rodgers type rookie (starter) impact and now there's been a complete 180 in evaluation. Let's just wait until the season starts.

Agreed. As I saw mentioned in the Eagles/Chiefs game thread, Reid doesn't show much in preseason. We should give Kolb a few "real" games this season before making judgements that run counter to what we thought in the off-season.

 

[FGITLOTR]

Guys, I pray people are solely evaluating him on the pre-season, thus allowing owners like myself to get him at a discount in an upcoming draft.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

I would not feel good at all with Kolb as my QB1.

Based solely off of his preseason?

While you make a good point not to base things solely off preseason, you can't ignore it either.

 

[FantasyTrader]

Guys, I pray people are solely evaluating him on the pre-season, thus allowing owners like myself to get him at a discount in an upcoming draft.

Yeah, cuz he's SO under the radar. I'm not sure I've ever seen a QB do so little to attain an ADP of 8th overall among the position. I mean, think about it. Have you ever heard of a QB head into the preseason as the 8th QB off the board with a total of two career starts to his credit? Now granted, they were sensational starts! But this isn't 2009. He isn't coming in for an injured McNabb with some guy named Brian Westbrook in the backfield and a largely unknown commodity in DeSean Jackson streaking down the field. He's "the man". People will read the above and think I have an axe to grind against Kolb. I actually love him in dynasty. I think he's going to have a very good career. But I've also watched enough football in the last 20 years to see plenty of backup QB's look like Pro Bowlers in limited time. And when they finally get their shot, the vast majority go through a period of adjustment...at best. I'm not even saying Kolb can't wind up a top 12 fantasy QB by season's end. But I'd bet his season will be more up-n-down than most of his owners (or anybody else) were forecasting.

 

[Hang 10]

I would not feel good at all with Kolb as my QB1.

Based solely off of his preseason?The thing that I've noticed about Kolb is that he relies a lot on gameplan, preparation, and focus. Without preparation, he doesn't seem to do well at all. The times he's had to prepare for an important game, he's done fairly good. During this preseason, I've heard the announcers constantly point out how poised and confident Kevin Kolb is and that he doesn't let the bad get to him. I bet Kolb does better when the games become important and meaningful.I'm not saying Kolb will have a +30 TD season but I wouldn't be surprised to see him flirt with 25. My worry is the Eagles' O, not Kolb.It's amazing how players' value drop so low or rise high just because of the preseason. A lot of people were saying Kolb would make an Aaron Rodgers type rookie (starter) impact and now there's been a complete 180 in evaluation. Let's just wait until the season starts.

What important games are you referring to?With Kolbs limited experience it's kinda silly to not evaluate this years preseason. You seem to suggest people ignore what their eyes tell them & to still believe the hype.

 

[Jason Wood]

I'm an Eagles season ticket holder as many know and...I'm worried. Kolb hasn't just played poorly in the games, he's been an absolute turnover machine in practice. As I read through the practice reports each day, he's pretty much thrown bad INTs including quite a few pick sixes throughout camp. Maybe he's a "gamer." Maybe he just needs the OL to gel with Herremans coming back. But, right now, it looks sketchy.

 

[Deranged Hermit]

I'm an Eagles season ticket holder as many know and...I'm worried. Kolb hasn't just played poorly in the games, he's been an absolute turnover machine in practice. As I read through the practice reports each day, he's pretty much thrown bad INTs including quite a few pick sixes throughout camp. Maybe he's a "gamer." Maybe he just needs the OL to gel with Herremans coming back. But, right now, it looks sketchy.

What Jason said. Anyone who has been tracking the Eagles thread in the Shark Pool already knows he hasn't looked good. I currently have him on only one team of my and that was only because I stole him in an auction league. He won't be starting fo any of my teams any time soon......

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I honestly think he's drafted as high as he is because of these ridiculous aaron rodgers comparisons.

as soon as one guy blows up it seems like everybody's lookin' for the 'next one' for the next 5 years., meanwhile drafting all these 'next ones' 3 rounds higher than the first one.

rodgers and kolb are 2 different players on 2 different teams ---- what's the comparison other than the once were back ups?

in '07 rodgers had to fill in against dallas when favre crapped the bed, just like kolb had those couple fill in games last year.

at the time, the dallas defense was tied for sixth in lowest net ypa (5.4), and sixth in picks (19), so the pass defense wasn't too bad.

rodgers - qb rating = 105, 18/26 (70%), 201 yds, 7.7 ypa, 1 td, 0 int

that's an excellent effort

I know rodgers only put up 200 yds, while kolb had all that crazy yardage people love, so let's look at kolb's 2 starts against new orleans and kc.

NO - qb rating = 73.2, 31/51 (60%), 391 yds, 7.7 ypa, 2 td, 3 int

kolb had twice the yardage rodgers put up, but he also threw the ball twice as much to get that yardage, trying to keep up with the 48 pt saints bombardment, while only completing 60% and earning a dismal 73 qb rating, along with his 3 picks.

that's not a great effort.

KC - qb rating 120!, 24/34 (70%), 327 yds, 9.6 ypa, 2 td, 0 int

this is an absolutely superior effort!

the only problem is it comes against an absolutely dismal team that put up 14 points in the game, and was tied for 4th worst in the league in net ypa (7.0) -- the only teams giving up a higher net ypa being detroit, the rams, and jax.

I think if I could play kc all year I'd start kolb as my qb and jerome harrison as my rb and dominate!

edit: haha...I just realized kc was the one that got this bandwagon rolling, now they're the ones putting the brakes on it.

 

[Shermanator]

The Eagles are a very vanilla preseason team (As with alot of other teams). Their gameplans and offensive play calling will drastically change once the season starts.

Take last nights game as a "gift" against your fellow league mates, because they will undoubtedly devalue Kolb after this game. Making Kolb that much more of a draft day steal.

 

[Routilla]

I tried to trade him for Larry Johnson and got turned down. Until Big Ben gets back I am stuck with him and Orton. Amazing to think that Orton could be my savior.

 

[ROBOPUNTER]

So if Kolb turns out to suck in the regular season as much as the preseason, is the solution to the Eagles QB problem on their roster now?

 

[CentralPA]

I'm worried as well. At the sametime it's going to take sometime. He's not going to be Joe Montana out of the shoot. I would not start him in any of my leagues but I think eventually he can develop into a very stable QB and throw between 25-30 TDs a year. It's going to be a rough year in Philly with that O-line and the youth but they will gel and be very good down the road.

 

[ImTheScientist]

I would not feel good at all with Kolb as my QB1.

Based solely off of his preseason?The thing that I've noticed about Kolb is that he relies a lot on gameplan, preparation, and focus. Without preparation, he doesn't seem to do well at all. The times he's had to prepare for an important game, he's done fairly good. During this preseason, I've heard the announcers constantly point out how poised and confident Kevin Kolb is and that he doesn't let the bad get to him. I bet Kolb does better when the games become important and meaningful.

Is there really that much more to base things off of at this point?

 

[The Jacket]

One thing is for sure, he does NOT have the arm to make the throws that young guys we adore like Rodgers and Rivers do. The Chiefs were putting pressure on him and when he was rolling out or throwing off his back foot a little, the ball looked pretty fluttery and rarely got where it needed to be.

I do like him as a QB prospect but I think he'll be better as a high-percentage short-range WCO guy than a fantasy football stud. I'd be surprised if DJax gets half as many 50+ yard TDs this year, unless he goes nuts on short catches/long runs.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

So if Kolb turns out to suck in the regular season as much as the preseason, is the solution to the Eagles QB problem on their roster now?

Even if management won't say so, this is a rebuilding year. Kolb will start every game regardless of performance unless he gets hurt. The long-term plan is for him to be the starting QB, and this is the year they see whether he has the goods to do it. If they determine after this year that he can't cut it, they will go out and get someone else. Vick is not accurate enough to run Reid's version of the WCO and Kafka won't be ready.

 

[mawaru]

What do you guys think of his upside? Kolb is mobile and can make good throws on the run. But I too did read that in training camp he has been throwing picks, so I'm sure his decision making is still questionable. What about Vick? He looks faster and more athletic than last year, he can't run the west coast offense like Kolb, but will he get more playing time this year?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Kolb this season is a qB2. I wouldnt want him as my #1.

#1 - Michael vick. Vick is gonna steal goal line opportunities.

#2- Kolb is green very green, there will be growing pains. Pre-season performance aside I been saying he is overvalued for awhile. FFL wise he could have very iffy games.

 

[Zoomanji]

I tried to trade him for Larry Johnson and got turned down. Until Big Ben gets back I am stuck with him and Orton. Amazing to think that Orton could be my savior.

shockingmaybe you can get Romo for Cadillac Williams

 

[Amused to Death]

So if Kolb turns out to suck in the regular season as much as the preseason, is the solution to the Eagles QB problem on their roster now?

Even if management won't say so, this is a rebuilding year. Kolb will start every game regardless of performance unless he gets hurt. The long-term plan is for him to be the starting QB, and this is the year they see whether he has the goods to do it. If they determine after this year that he can't cut it, they will go out and get someone else. Vick is not accurate enough to run Reid's version of the WCO and Kafka won't be ready.

The only thing I disagree with in your post is that I believe he'll get 2 full seasons. Vick is certainly not the answer and I believe it was DHermit that said the Eagles were regretting their decision to give Vick the roster bonus this year. Vick is insurance/trade bait, not the future Eagles QB.IMO, Kolb as your FFL #1 is a mistake, regardless how he looks in preseason. He's a first year starter. As an Eagles fan, I want to see KK mature as the season progresses. I'm not expecting them to compete for the NFC and anyone expecting that will probably be disappointed. Kolb is a good dynasty prospect and a #2 with upside to pair with a strong #1 for this year.

 

[Amused to Death]

I tried to trade him for Larry Johnson and got turned down. Until Big Ben gets back I am stuck with him and Orton. Amazing to think that Orton could be my savior.

So you're going with a first year starter as your opening day #1 and you're shocked he had a bad preseason game?

 

[Benchwarmers]

I think Kolb will be fine. I remember Rogers having a rough start too. Andy Reid will counter the blitz packages teams are sending at him and Kolb will finish in the top 10 THIS year. Philly might not win 10 games but Kolb will put up the numbers.

 

[jude]

I think Kolb will be fine. I remember Rogers having a rough start too. Andy Reid will counter the blitz packages teams are sending at him and Kolb will finish in the top 10 THIS year. Philly might not win 10 games but Kolb will put up the numbers.

he isnt rodgers.

 

[Benchwarmers]

I think Kolb will be fine. I remember Rogers having a rough start too. Andy Reid will counter the blitz packages teams are sending at him and Kolb will finish in the top 10 THIS year. Philly might not win 10 games but Kolb will put up the numbers.

he isnt rodgers.

What kind of year do you think Kolb will have? yards, TD's, INT's

 

[Insein]

I thought he showed some poise coming out after the int. He led the team down the field and got some points. He was accurate on the crossing routes to Maclin and Avant, hitting them in stride. Not having Desean in there is huge. Also, basically abandoning the running game the whole 3rd quarter allowed KC to just pin their ears back and go after the QB. There were some good signs this game that he gets it and will come through in the regular season. The o-line needs to tighten up and we'll have Desean on the field during the regular season.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Andy never shows anything in the preseaon. 100% vanilla. Now our special teams, woof, thats a mess. If opposing teams are going to be playing with short fields all year, then Kolb will be throwing that much more.

 

[jude]

I think Kolb will be fine. I remember Rogers having a rough start too. Andy Reid will counter the blitz packages teams are sending at him and Kolb will finish in the top 10 THIS year. Philly might not win 10 games but Kolb will put up the numbers.

he isnt rodgers.

What kind of year do you think Kolb will have? yards, TD's, INT's

i have flip-flopped a lot on kolb, to be honest. Earlier in the summer i really liked his chances this year. Now, I am seeing a kid who has a lot to learn. I could see some really good yardage numbers, but the picks are gonna kill him. He makes a lot of bad throws.3600-3800 yards22 tds20 intssome might say this is great for what is essentially his rookie year, but i dont necessarily think this is his first ste to becoming top flight like rodgers.

 

[Amused to Death]

I thought he showed some poise coming out after the int. He led the team down the field and got some points. He was accurate on the crossing routes to Maclin and Avant, hitting them in stride. Not having Desean in there is huge. Also, basically abandoning the running game the whole 3rd quarter allowed KC to just pin their ears back and go after the QB. There were some good signs this game that he gets it and will come through in the regular season. The o-line needs to tighten up and we'll have Desean on the field during the regular season. I wouldn't worry too much about it. Andy never shows anything in the preseaon. 100% vanilla. Now our special teams, woof, thats a mess. If opposing teams are going to be playing with short fields all year, then Kolb will be throwing that much more.

And let's not forget the perfect bomb to Maclin that went through his hands and at least one other ball Maclin dropped. Plus the mugging in the endzone that should have resulted in 1st and goal at the 1. Kolb's absolutely been inconsistent, but that should be expected from such a young team just learning to play together. IMO, that was the main reason #5 was traded; so the young guys could use this year to grow together. It won't always be smooth. Anyone who drafted Kolb should have expected games like this. Particularly early in the season.

 

[PahtyTom]

I actually think Kolb looked better vs KC than vs Cin. He is showing progress as far as feeling more comfortable in the pocket vs NFL pass rush. That is his biggest problem right now imo, and he seems to be getting better.

 

[Monk81]

I thought he showed some poise coming out after the int. He led the team down the field and got some points. He was accurate on the crossing routes to Maclin and Avant, hitting them in stride. Not having Desean in there is huge. Also, basically abandoning the running game the whole 3rd quarter allowed KC to just pin their ears back and go after the QB. There were some good signs this game that he gets it and will come through in the regular season. The o-line needs to tighten up and we'll have Desean on the field during the regular season.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Andy never shows anything in the preseaon. 100% vanilla. Now our special teams, woof, thats a mess. If opposing teams are going to be playing with short fields all year, then Kolb will be throwing that much more.

It certainly appears that the offense needs Jackson on the field to achieve any consistency.

 

[Benchwarmers]

I think Kolb will be fine. I remember Rogers having a rough start too. Andy Reid will counter the blitz packages teams are sending at him and Kolb will finish in the top 10 THIS year. Philly might not win 10 games but Kolb will put up the numbers.

he isnt rodgers.

What kind of year do you think Kolb will have? yards, TD's, INT's

i have flip-flopped a lot on kolb, to be honest. Earlier in the summer i really liked his chances this year. Now, I am seeing a kid who has a lot to learn. I could see some really good yardage numbers, but the picks are gonna kill him. He makes a lot of bad throws.3600-3800 yards22 tds20 intssome might say this is great for what is essentially his rookie year, but i dont necessarily think this is his first ste to becoming top flight like rodgers.

I have his numbers like this:3,900 yards 30td's, 20intsHe is going to be behind alot of games and throwing alot. He will be sacked a bunch of times. If all his weapons are healthy he is going to outplay his fantasy draft spot. I think he will have some monster games and some so-so games. An easy top 10 qb. McCoy should put up good numbers if he can stay healthy. Philly's OL has to play better.

 

[jude]

I think Kolb will be fine. I remember Rogers having a rough start too. Andy Reid will counter the blitz packages teams are sending at him and Kolb will finish in the top 10 THIS year. Philly might not win 10 games but Kolb will put up the numbers.

he isnt rodgers.

What kind of year do you think Kolb will have? yards, TD's, INT's

i have flip-flopped a lot on kolb, to be honest. Earlier in the summer i really liked his chances this year. Now, I am seeing a kid who has a lot to learn. I could see some really good yardage numbers, but the picks are gonna kill him. He makes a lot of bad throws.3600-3800 yards22 tds20 intssome might say this is great for what is essentially his rookie year, but i dont necessarily think this is his first ste to becoming top flight like rodgers.

I have his numbers like this:3,900 yards 30td's, 20intsHe is going to be behind alot of games and throwing alot. He will be sacked a bunch of times. If all his weapons are healthy he is going to outplay his fantasy draft spot. I think he will have some monster games and some so-so games. An easy top 10 qb. McCoy should put up good numbers if he can stay healthy. Philly's OL has to play better.

30 td's in his first year would be quite historic. i dont have the stats, but would be curious to know.

 

[stbugs]

I have his numbers like this:3,900 yards 30td's, 20intsHe is going to be behind alot of games and throwing alot. He will be sacked a bunch of times. If all his weapons are healthy he is going to outplay his fantasy draft spot. I think he will have some monster games and some so-so games. An easy top 10 qb. McCoy should put up good numbers if he can stay healthy. Philly's OL has to play better.

30 td's in his first year would be quite historic. i dont have the stats, but would be curious to know.

Looking at Rodgers, Rivers, Brees, Brady and Manning and they all had 17-28 TDs their first year. The best was Rodgers in what was his 4th year with the Packers. Heck Schaub is somewhat similar and he only had 24TDs his first two years in 22 games. Sorry, but 30TDs as a projection for Kolb is crazy. Sure, I am sure there are some first year QBs with 30TDs somewhere in NFL history, but from what I saw last night in the KC game, Kolb doesn't look better than the studs I mentioned and I doubt he will outdo them his first full year.I said a week or two in another thread about Kolb, Rivers and Cutler as similarly ranked that I wouldn't gamble my season with Kolb as my #1. I would rather go with Rivers without VJ and Cutler and his INTs than risk Kolb blowing up. He isn't a proven FF QB yet and there are way too many examples of QBs with a couple good FF games one year not following through the next vs hoping he is Aaron Rodgers. Kolb may end up with a solid season, but of the 3 he easily has the lowest floor.

 

[Monk81]

Daniel Constantine Marino Jr. in his first full season of starting had 48. In 1983, the first year he played he had 20 tds in 11 games.

 

[Tigerbot Hesh]

.

 

[stbugs]

Daniel Constantine Marino Jr. in his first full season of starting had 48. In 1983, the first year he played he had 20 tds in 11 games.

So really, he had 20 in his first year starting. He played 11 games and threw 296 passes. That is more passes than Roethlisberger threw in his rookie year when Roethlisberger was the full year starter. To say 1984 was his first year starting is a stretch. His first whole year was 1984, but it wasn't like he threw 80 passes in relief of McNabb. Again, Marino is one of the most prolific passers ever. So Kolb to hit 30 in his first full year has to be as good as Marino over all 16 games.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I tried to search up a list of top td producing qb's in their first year starting, and if I did it right, here it is:

from best to worst (30+ td's)

warner - 41 (28 yrs old, post-arena league)

culpepper - 33

marino - 20 in 11 games (48 2nd year)

ferragamo - 30 (4th year, 1st as starter)

then you have a few guys like carson, romo, and garcia who reached 30 in their second year after starting the bulk of the season in their first year.

 

[Jason Wood]

The Eagles are a very vanilla preseason team (As with alot of other teams). Their gameplans and offensive play calling will drastically change once the season starts. Take last nights game as a "gift" against your fellow league mates, because they will undoubtedly devalue Kolb after this game. Making Kolb that much more of a draft day steal.

If it were just game action I wouldn't put much into it because, as you said Andy plays it close to the vest. But he's looked bad in non pass rush drills, 7on7s, etc...in practice in all sorts of situations. I guess I have to ask why the confidence?

 

[Monk81]

Daniel Constantine Marino Jr. in his first full season of starting had 48. In 1983, the first year he played he had 20 tds in 11 games.

So really, he had 20 in his first year starting. He played 11 games and threw 296 passes. That is more passes than Roethlisberger threw in his rookie year when Roethlisberger was the full year starter. To say 1984 was his first year starting is a stretch. His first whole year was 1984, but it wasn't like he threw 80 passes in relief of McNabb. Again, Marino is one of the most prolific passers ever. So Kolb to hit 30 in his first full year has to be as good as Marino over all 16 games.

I didn't say it was his first year starting I said it was his first full season of starting. Anyway, someone asked for a reference and it was the first I could think of.

 

[shader]

I think Desean's huge year last year, the improvement we're all supposed to see from Maclin, and the blow up games we saw out of Kolb last year led to a perfect storm of overreaction in the past few months.

A few months ago, the hype got way out of control and Kolb was going far higher than he should be.

Now we're starting to figure out that, hey you know what, Kolb isn't going to step in and be a top NFL QB in year one....He might actually have growing pains! As one poster astutely said, the Aaron Rodgers effect.

Eagles fans need to understand that they aren't going to the playoffs this year, and Kolb isn't throwing for 35 td's.

The Eagles are extremely young and need some time to gel. But I still think this is an offense that can be very good at times this year, and if Kolb continues to work hard and grow, it could grow into a dominant offense in a few years.

 

[Amused to Death]

I think Desean's huge year last year, the improvement we're all supposed to see from Maclin, and the blow up games we saw out of Kolb last year led to a perfect storm of overreaction in the past few months.

A few months ago, the hype got way out of control and Kolb was going far higher than he should be.

Now we're starting to figure out that, hey you know what, Kolb isn't going to step in and be a top NFL QB in year one....He might actually have growing pains! As one poster astutely said, the Aaron Rodgers effect.

Eagles fans need to understand that they aren't going to the playoffs this year, and Kolb isn't throwing for 35 td's.

The Eagles are extremely young and need some time to gel. But I still think this is an offense that can be very good at times this year, and if Kolb continues to work hard and grow, it could grow into a dominant offense in a few years.

But its not just Eagles fans. 12 of 17 experts on this site have him ranked as a QB1 in redrafts this year. But you're right and as I've posted several times on this board, they are young and need a season or 2 mature together.