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The new MLB in Buffalo (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter zilladog
- Start date
I think they are going to sign another LB in free agency.
eakfootball
Footballguy
GridironMenace
Footballguy
I would guess that Ruud would command more money than Buffalo is willing to pay. Plus he'd be moving from a 4-3 to a 3-4. I think Kevin Burnett or Nick Barnett would come cheaper and already have experience playing the ILB in a 3-4. Either one of those two would be better fits than Ruud IMHO.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
From what I've heard, Shep is the planned starter at the moment. They wanted someone more athletic in the middle. Wouldn't surprise me at all if they sign another veteran with 3-4 experience to start there though. They are way under the cap still and can certainly afford it. Not signing Poz was a clear indication that they simply wanted to move in another direction and get a more athletic LB more suited for a 3-4.
Not signing Poz wasn't a clear indication of anything other than that they didn't want to allocate that kind of money to him. Everything I've read said that the Bills wanted Poz back. I live outside Buffalo, have you heard anything to the contrary?
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Not sure about that last part. They offered him a 4 year deal.
I don't think it was all about the money. Poz wanted to play 4/3 MLB again. The Bills may very well have matched the numbers otherwise.
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GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Yup, that's that talk. And I still think the Bills preferred to go a different direction than Poz. They have plenty of salary cap room if they wanted to keep him. They may have offered him a deal, but my guess it was more in the line of his worth as a 3-4 ILB that isn't super athletic.
You're completely wrong. Where are you getting this from? The articles I'm reading suggest that it was a combination of money and his desire to stay in 4-3.
sihaokills
Footballguy
sihaokills
Footballguy
Cooper is a great fit
Goyal the Goodfella
Footballguy
Nick Barnett seems a logical fit to me. Why put up Ruud/Burnett money, when Barnett represents great value, while one of the young guys is groomed for the spot. Or, they can draft the heir apparent next year (again, for much cheaper than the big free agents)
Barnett to Buffalo. Could be a potential upgrade at half the cost.
therokie0070
Footballguy
Davis would be my guess, Maybe Sheppard later in the season.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Arthur Moats. The Bills moved him to ILB and he's the one making the defensive calls right now. So I would expect him to be the other starter at ILB.'Portis 26 said:
I think Andra Davis is very likely to start at SILB next to Barnett. He's a perfect fit and his experience will give him an edge over the young guys.Moats is making the calls on the 2nd unit alongside Chris White.http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2011/08/02/moats-making-the-calls/
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JbizzleMan
Footballguy
Barnett a good pickup?
zilladog
Footballguy
Absolutely. I think he could return to top 12ish status. Perhaps jump into the top 10 again.
Qtip Callahan
Footballguy
I'm not quite so high on Barnett. His production has waned even when he was healthy. He's a big risk to me, and not someone I want to take before LB3.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Davis did start in the middle of their obvious 4-3.
But he sure didn't stay on the field much.
I don't mean to say he left early, he just kept walking off the field for every sub-package.
But he sure didn't stay on the field much.
I don't mean to say he left early, he just kept walking off the field for every sub-package.
Choke
Footballguy
Correct. He is the WLB in their 4-3 scheme.It was assumed they would be sticking in a 3-4 and he would ILB, which appears to be true, except they arent doing any 3-4 stuff.
JbizzleMan
Footballguy
So...DON'T bother picking him up?
djmich
Footballguy
Is Davis the guy to own here now?
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
I am not an expert, and I can't tell you who to take or not take because I'm not qualified -- I'll leave that to experts.
this is just a novice opinion......
first of all, what's really more important than position is the number of snaps he's on the field, and my understanding is that barnett is in on all the plays, whereas davis comes out on passing downs for a db when they go to nickel personnel.
so, this costs davis a chunk of opportunity.
it depends on your league, etc, but generally speaking, you can find other guys who play every down to take over davis even if you don't like barnett.
secondly, I'd imagine the whole unit will be on the field a fair amount more than the average team, so barnett (as well as davis) gets a little pimp on that angle.
I have no idea what variety 4-3 buffalo has been running, or how many snaps they plan to play it, but last year the pats, for example, played 4-3 maybe half the time and 3-4 the other half.
also, there's been much made of the pats working in 4-3 in preseason and practice, but it's a 4-3 'under' which is not a bad spot at all for a wlb, if barnett actually was wlb --- so, just being wlb in 4-3 isn't automatically death.
but I'll yield the floor to the staffers here, as they have a thousand times better grasp of all this than I do.
edit:
I haven't seen buffalo preseason, but it wouldn't surprise me if edwards did a few things similar to the pats, and for instance, you might see him running a 4-3 part of the time in passing down subs where he could walk the 'slb' up on the line, leaving more of a 2 lb look in the tackle box, or you might run a 3-4 where an olb moves up to give more of a 4-3 look --- the '4-3 wlb' just being a 3-4 wilb, so I think a lot of it is scheme and alignment dependent, moreso than just odd or even front.
this is a quote from him early in the year when he got hired:
"Defensively, we will start from a 3-4 alignment," Edwards said in a statement released by the Bills.
I googled around a bit and found this:
http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/11608/bills-might-model-3-4-d-after-sabans
Bills cornerback Drayton Florence might have given some insight over the weekend with a series of tweets between him and legendary Bills running back Thurman Thomas.
Florence sent out a public plea to get in touch with Alabama inside linebacker Rolando McClain because (and I've cleaned up the tweet-speak) "he knows the defense we're going to be running, same as Alabama's defense ... and he made all the calls."
Florence later tweets: "I want to talk to [McClain] about the way they ran their 3-4 in Alabama because we're going to be playing a similar style. Edwards and Saban are the same type of [defensive coach]."
Saban is a Bill Belichick disciple. When Saban was head coach of the Miami Dolphins, he hired Edwards to be his linebackers coach.
A final brief prefatory note is that while Saban bases out of a 3-4, he quite commonly has one of his linebackers put their hand down and line up as would a 4-3 defensive end.
http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2009/06/repost-preview-of-nick-sabans-alabama.html
this is just a novice opinion......
first of all, what's really more important than position is the number of snaps he's on the field, and my understanding is that barnett is in on all the plays, whereas davis comes out on passing downs for a db when they go to nickel personnel.
so, this costs davis a chunk of opportunity.
it depends on your league, etc, but generally speaking, you can find other guys who play every down to take over davis even if you don't like barnett.
secondly, I'd imagine the whole unit will be on the field a fair amount more than the average team, so barnett (as well as davis) gets a little pimp on that angle.
I have no idea what variety 4-3 buffalo has been running, or how many snaps they plan to play it, but last year the pats, for example, played 4-3 maybe half the time and 3-4 the other half.
also, there's been much made of the pats working in 4-3 in preseason and practice, but it's a 4-3 'under' which is not a bad spot at all for a wlb, if barnett actually was wlb --- so, just being wlb in 4-3 isn't automatically death.
but I'll yield the floor to the staffers here, as they have a thousand times better grasp of all this than I do.
edit:
I haven't seen buffalo preseason, but it wouldn't surprise me if edwards did a few things similar to the pats, and for instance, you might see him running a 4-3 part of the time in passing down subs where he could walk the 'slb' up on the line, leaving more of a 2 lb look in the tackle box, or you might run a 3-4 where an olb moves up to give more of a 4-3 look --- the '4-3 wlb' just being a 3-4 wilb, so I think a lot of it is scheme and alignment dependent, moreso than just odd or even front.
this is a quote from him early in the year when he got hired:
"Defensively, we will start from a 3-4 alignment," Edwards said in a statement released by the Bills.
I googled around a bit and found this:
http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/11608/bills-might-model-3-4-d-after-sabans
Bills cornerback Drayton Florence might have given some insight over the weekend with a series of tweets between him and legendary Bills running back Thurman Thomas.
Florence sent out a public plea to get in touch with Alabama inside linebacker Rolando McClain because (and I've cleaned up the tweet-speak) "he knows the defense we're going to be running, same as Alabama's defense ... and he made all the calls."
Florence later tweets: "I want to talk to [McClain] about the way they ran their 3-4 in Alabama because we're going to be playing a similar style. Edwards and Saban are the same type of [defensive coach]."
Saban is a Bill Belichick disciple. When Saban was head coach of the Miami Dolphins, he hired Edwards to be his linebackers coach.
A final brief prefatory note is that while Saban bases out of a 3-4, he quite commonly has one of his linebackers put their hand down and line up as would a 4-3 defensive end.
http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2009/06/repost-preview-of-nick-sabans-alabama.html
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ffchamp1
Footballguy
Do not panic, Barnett is still the WILB
Gamebook shows what has been said all along, Davis will be the SILB or MLB and Barnett will be the WILB. They opened with this week one but I would bet due to DEN opening with two TE and two WR they went to the three DE lineup for week 2.
Also, Gamebook is as close to we have as accurate but it isn't 100%, don't panic just yet.
Gamebook shows what has been said all along, Davis will be the SILB or MLB and Barnett will be the WILB. They opened with this week one but I would bet due to DEN opening with two TE and two WR they went to the three DE lineup for week 2.
Also, Gamebook is as close to we have as accurate but it isn't 100%, don't panic just yet.
Not sure what Choke is talking about. It may look like a 4-3 at times because Carrington and Kelsay are former 4-3 defensive ends, but I charted the entire first drive and the Bills were in a 3-4 or nickel on every snap.Base 3-4 was:WOLB - Carrington (in place of Merriman)WILB - BarnettSILB - A.DavisSOLB - KelsayIn the nickel package, Davis was replaced by Torbor.This is the same exact thing they showed in the opener against the Bears. Nothing has changed. Barnett is still going to be the playmaker and primary tackler in this defense.The only time Barnett wasn't on the field on the first drive was the last play when the Bills were in their dime package and Torbor was the linebacker.Barnett played the entire 2nd series as well. They brought out a big nickel on one 1st down with Bryan Scott, Nick Barnett, and Torbor all lined up in the box.The Bills did not really use a true 4-3 front on any play that I could see.
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Jene Bramel
Footballguy
I think the Bills have been in a 4-3 on almost every base defensive play this preseason.Took a screenshot of the first play v DEN last week. The alignment looked similar in the first two drives against Chicago, but with Merriman in the mix.RDE Alex Carrington (for Chris Kelsay)3DT Marcell DareusNT Kyle WilliamsLDE Dwan EdwardsSLB Chris Kelsay (for Shawne Merriman)MLB Andra DavisWLB Nick BarnettIt's a 4-3 Under formation. The Saban "twist" is that the strong side of the defense looks like a 3-4, while the weak side looks like a 4-3 in terms of gap assignments. Barnett's role and position is very similar whether he's in this formation or a 3-4.
Choke
Footballguy
Ive watched it twice and the SOLB looks to be in a standard DE spot from everything I see. Then again I get this similar debate all the time that Ngata isnt playing a 3-4 DE when in fact he absolutely is.But they did play a ton of nickel, as did Denver this week.
Choke
Footballguy
A wonderful screen capture Jene. Kudos.
ok. I see what you mean. That was the opening play and the Broncos came out in a balanced 2TE set. To me, it looks nearly identical to their 3-4 except that Carrington is in a 3-point stance here. Now that I look back, it's the same thing on a lot of plays but many of them look like nickel packages to me.Either way, Barnett's value remains unchanged, which was my main point.
Good stuff. This is a great description of what they are doing. Looks like a bit of both.
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Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
jene, et al ---- would it be true that barnett is basically mayo in this defense?
here's a picture I took
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/684/billsl.jpg/
3-4 with Barnett at WILB, Davis at SILB, Kelsay at SOLB, A.Coleman at WOLB.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/684/billsl.jpg/
3-4 with Barnett at WILB, Davis at SILB, Kelsay at SOLB, A.Coleman at WOLB.
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Jene Bramel
Footballguy
This is Saban all the way. Coleman is playing the Elephant like role Jason Taylor did when Saban was at Miami. That's a three man line that's playing 4-3 1-gap concept, i.e. the "RDE" is in a 3-technique, which is something you don't see in a conventional 3-4.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Yes. The Patriots have been doing much the same thing during the preseason.
JbizzleMan
Footballguy
How does this affect Barnett?
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Morrison wasn't signed to start. He'll back up Davis in the middle, or give them another OLB option if Merriman can't hold up and they'd prefer not to move Kelsay around.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Absolutely better as an run-stuffing SILB. Morrison washed out as MLB in Oakland and Jacksonville because he was average against the run.
Morrison sounds like depth behind Barnett, and a potential Torbor replacement. Davis/Sheppard should be set.
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