The NFL has Imploded (1 Viewer)

[FUBAR]

A few thoughts on the topic....How many QBs would be in the first round? 20? 25? If you don't land an elite QB, you've got no shot. Who would the 10-15 non-QB players be?A fun off-season exercise might be to actually have this draft and see how the teams turn out. We'll need 32 drafters.

More like 6 or 8 QBs in the first. The real NFL is a dynasty, not a redraft. Getting an elite QB is important, but QBs are a renewable resource. Nobody would pass on Watt, Miller, Atkins, Calvin, or Joe Thomas for Fitzpatrick, Locker, or Ponder (which is who you'd be looking at with the 20-25th QBs off the board). Hell, I bet if you told Detroit they had to liquidate their roster and could only keep one player, they'd pick Calvin over Stafford. And Stafford is one of the better young QBs!As for the top non-QBs... I already mentioned Miller, Watt, Atkins, Calvin, some of the young LTs (maybe Clady and/or Thomas), Richard Sherman, Pierre-Paul, maybe Revis, Patrick Willis, AJ Green, Gronk, Aldon Smith, Suh, possibly Gerald McCoy. I wouldn't be surprised to see Demaryius, Julio, or Harvin work their way into the first. I would be shocked to see any RBs or interior linemen, although I suppose someone could make a case for a Pouncey. I think it'd be pretty exclusively passers, pass catchers, pass rushers, and pass defenders, plus Patrick Willis.Again, suggesting that more than 10 QBs should go in the first is crazy. Pick any particular year- say, 1990. How many QBs that year would you have taken over Lawrence Taylor, Jerry Rice, or either Sanders? Any Hall of Famer at any position is worth miles more than a merely average QB, and that's what you're getting with the 13th QB off the board- average.

You might be right. Just curious, why do you think 12 of the last 15 #1 picks have been QBs? When Bradford is taken ahead of Suh, Cam ahead of Von Miller and Dareus, and Russell over Calvin and Thomas; it clearly shows that teams clamor for their franchise QB. We have to go back to 88 to find a LB who went #1, 95 and 96 for RB/WR. Has a TE ever gone #1? Maybe it's just me but it appears teams will take a QB who is expected to be an average starter over safer bets to be studs at other positions.

In rookie drafts, everyone is an unknown. Everyone taking a QB at #1 thinks he's going to be a star, like Peyton Manning. Moreover, they're taking that potential star over other rookies- other potential stars at lower-value positions. They aren't taking QBs who are PROVEN average over DEs who are PROVEN studs, so it's not at all comparable to taking Bradford over Watt today. And even then, with an apples-to-apples comparison (rookies vs. rookies), the QB usually goes #1 overall (as would happen here), but how many QBs typically wind up going in the first? Three? Even when you're comparing crapshoot QBs against crapshoot DEs, there are only a handful that deserve consideration over the best prospects at other positions. Again, I ask... How many QBs would you have taken over Lawrence Taylor after his second season? Go back and look at the QBs available back then- how many proved to be more valuable? Or compare to Ray Lewis after his DPoY, or Deion, or Barry.

As much as I like Watt, Smith and a few others, none of these guys are LT. Even with LT, the Giants weren't a great team in the years where Simms missed time. The NFL has changed a lot in 20 years. This year, the top 6 QBs all made the playoffs. If you want to be competitive, you must have at least an average QB. Maybe I'm missing it, but I don't see another position which the same can be said about. I think we can agree that at least 6 QBs are taken in the first round. Luck, RG3, Rodgers, Newton, Ryan and Stafford IMO are locks. You list Miller, Watt, Atkins, Calvin, Clady, Thomas, Richard Sherman, Pierre-Paul, Revis, Patrick Willis, AJ Green, Gronk, Aldon Smith, Suh, Gerald McCoy. Demaryius, Julio, Harvin. I'll include Kalil. That's 19. So 25 with QBs, leaving room for 7 more. Maybe I'm wrong, but I figure a young QB who has shown they can play in the league and win - Wilson, Dalton and Kaepernick have, or has the potential to be a franchise QB (Bradford, I think does) belong in the next tier. Others may prefer Eli, Brees, Ben, etc. if they want a proven winner for 5-7 years.

 

[SSOG]

A few thoughts on the topic....How many QBs would be in the first round? 20? 25? If you don't land an elite QB, you've got no shot. Who would the 10-15 non-QB players be?A fun off-season exercise might be to actually have this draft and see how the teams turn out. We'll need 32 drafters.

More like 6 or 8 QBs in the first. The real NFL is a dynasty, not a redraft. Getting an elite QB is important, but QBs are a renewable resource. Nobody would pass on Watt, Miller, Atkins, Calvin, or Joe Thomas for Fitzpatrick, Locker, or Ponder (which is who you'd be looking at with the 20-25th QBs off the board). Hell, I bet if you told Detroit they had to liquidate their roster and could only keep one player, they'd pick Calvin over Stafford. And Stafford is one of the better young QBs!As for the top non-QBs... I already mentioned Miller, Watt, Atkins, Calvin, some of the young LTs (maybe Clady and/or Thomas), Richard Sherman, Pierre-Paul, maybe Revis, Patrick Willis, AJ Green, Gronk, Aldon Smith, Suh, possibly Gerald McCoy. I wouldn't be surprised to see Demaryius, Julio, or Harvin work their way into the first. I would be shocked to see any RBs or interior linemen, although I suppose someone could make a case for a Pouncey. I think it'd be pretty exclusively passers, pass catchers, pass rushers, and pass defenders, plus Patrick Willis.Again, suggesting that more than 10 QBs should go in the first is crazy. Pick any particular year- say, 1990. How many QBs that year would you have taken over Lawrence Taylor, Jerry Rice, or either Sanders? Any Hall of Famer at any position is worth miles more than a merely average QB, and that's what you're getting with the 13th QB off the board- average.

You might be right. Just curious, why do you think 12 of the last 15 #1 picks have been QBs? When Bradford is taken ahead of Suh, Cam ahead of Von Miller and Dareus, and Russell over Calvin and Thomas; it clearly shows that teams clamor for their franchise QB. We have to go back to 88 to find a LB who went #1, 95 and 96 for RB/WR. Has a TE ever gone #1? Maybe it's just me but it appears teams will take a QB who is expected to be an average starter over safer bets to be studs at other positions.

In rookie drafts, everyone is an unknown. Everyone taking a QB at #1 thinks he's going to be a star, like Peyton Manning. Moreover, they're taking that potential star over other rookies- other potential stars at lower-value positions. They aren't taking QBs who are PROVEN average over DEs who are PROVEN studs, so it's not at all comparable to taking Bradford over Watt today. And even then, with an apples-to-apples comparison (rookies vs. rookies), the QB usually goes #1 overall (as would happen here), but how many QBs typically wind up going in the first? Three? Even when you're comparing crapshoot QBs against crapshoot DEs, there are only a handful that deserve consideration over the best prospects at other positions. Again, I ask... How many QBs would you have taken over Lawrence Taylor after his second season? Go back and look at the QBs available back then- how many proved to be more valuable? Or compare to Ray Lewis after his DPoY, or Deion, or Barry.

As much as I like Watt, Smith and a few others, none of these guys are LT. Even with LT, the Giants weren't a great team in the years where Simms missed time. The NFL has changed a lot in 20 years. This year, the top 6 QBs all made the playoffs. If you want to be competitive, you must have at least an average QB. Maybe I'm missing it, but I don't see another position which the same can be said about. I think we can agree that at least 6 QBs are taken in the first round. Luck, RG3, Rodgers, Newton, Ryan and Stafford IMO are locks. You list Miller, Watt, Atkins, Calvin, Clady, Thomas, Richard Sherman, Pierre-Paul, Revis, Patrick Willis, AJ Green, Gronk, Aldon Smith, Suh, Gerald McCoy. Demaryius, Julio, Harvin. I'll include Kalil. That's 19. So 25 with QBs, leaving room for 7 more. Maybe I'm wrong, but I figure a young QB who has shown they can play in the league and win - Wilson, Dalton and Kaepernick have, or has the potential to be a franchise QB (Bradford, I think does) belong in the next tier. Others may prefer Eli, Brees, Ben, etc. if they want a proven winner for 5-7 years.

So we're at 6 QBs with the possibility to get up to 8 or 10. Seems like what I posted in the first place- 6-8 QBs, 10 at the outside. I agree that the first would be QB heavy, I just think "QB heavy" means "a quarter of the picks" and not "three quarters of the picks" like the post I was responding to suggested. There's no way any GM passes up a Watt, Miller, or Atkins for the 10th pick of QBs. Get past those franchise-defining difference makers and it starts getting interesting.

 

[FUBAR]

A few thoughts on the topic....How many QBs would be in the first round? 20? 25? If you don't land an elite QB, you've got no shot. Who would the 10-15 non-QB players be?A fun off-season exercise might be to actually have this draft and see how the teams turn out. We'll need 32 drafters.

More like 6 or 8 QBs in the first. The real NFL is a dynasty, not a redraft. Getting an elite QB is important, but QBs are a renewable resource. Nobody would pass on Watt, Miller, Atkins, Calvin, or Joe Thomas for Fitzpatrick, Locker, or Ponder (which is who you'd be looking at with the 20-25th QBs off the board). Hell, I bet if you told Detroit they had to liquidate their roster and could only keep one player, they'd pick Calvin over Stafford. And Stafford is one of the better young QBs!As for the top non-QBs... I already mentioned Miller, Watt, Atkins, Calvin, some of the young LTs (maybe Clady and/or Thomas), Richard Sherman, Pierre-Paul, maybe Revis, Patrick Willis, AJ Green, Gronk, Aldon Smith, Suh, possibly Gerald McCoy. I wouldn't be surprised to see Demaryius, Julio, or Harvin work their way into the first. I would be shocked to see any RBs or interior linemen, although I suppose someone could make a case for a Pouncey. I think it'd be pretty exclusively passers, pass catchers, pass rushers, and pass defenders, plus Patrick Willis.Again, suggesting that more than 10 QBs should go in the first is crazy. Pick any particular year- say, 1990. How many QBs that year would you have taken over Lawrence Taylor, Jerry Rice, or either Sanders? Any Hall of Famer at any position is worth miles more than a merely average QB, and that's what you're getting with the 13th QB off the board- average.

You might be right. Just curious, why do you think 12 of the last 15 #1 picks have been QBs? When Bradford is taken ahead of Suh, Cam ahead of Von Miller and Dareus, and Russell over Calvin and Thomas; it clearly shows that teams clamor for their franchise QB. We have to go back to 88 to find a LB who went #1, 95 and 96 for RB/WR. Has a TE ever gone #1? Maybe it's just me but it appears teams will take a QB who is expected to be an average starter over safer bets to be studs at other positions.

In rookie drafts, everyone is an unknown. Everyone taking a QB at #1 thinks he's going to be a star, like Peyton Manning. Moreover, they're taking that potential star over other rookies- other potential stars at lower-value positions. They aren't taking QBs who are PROVEN average over DEs who are PROVEN studs, so it's not at all comparable to taking Bradford over Watt today. And even then, with an apples-to-apples comparison (rookies vs. rookies), the QB usually goes #1 overall (as would happen here), but how many QBs typically wind up going in the first? Three? Even when you're comparing crapshoot QBs against crapshoot DEs, there are only a handful that deserve consideration over the best prospects at other positions. Again, I ask... How many QBs would you have taken over Lawrence Taylor after his second season? Go back and look at the QBs available back then- how many proved to be more valuable? Or compare to Ray Lewis after his DPoY, or Deion, or Barry.

As much as I like Watt, Smith and a few others, none of these guys are LT. Even with LT, the Giants weren't a great team in the years where Simms missed time. The NFL has changed a lot in 20 years. This year, the top 6 QBs all made the playoffs. If you want to be competitive, you must have at least an average QB. Maybe I'm missing it, but I don't see another position which the same can be said about. I think we can agree that at least 6 QBs are taken in the first round. Luck, RG3, Rodgers, Newton, Ryan and Stafford IMO are locks. You list Miller, Watt, Atkins, Calvin, Clady, Thomas, Richard Sherman, Pierre-Paul, Revis, Patrick Willis, AJ Green, Gronk, Aldon Smith, Suh, Gerald McCoy. Demaryius, Julio, Harvin. I'll include Kalil. That's 19. So 25 with QBs, leaving room for 7 more. Maybe I'm wrong, but I figure a young QB who has shown they can play in the league and win - Wilson, Dalton and Kaepernick have, or has the potential to be a franchise QB (Bradford, I think does) belong in the next tier. Others may prefer Eli, Brees, Ben, etc. if they want a proven winner for 5-7 years.

So we're at 6 QBs with the possibility to get up to 8 or 10. Seems like what I posted in the first place- 6-8 QBs, 10 at the outside. I agree that the first would be QB heavy, I just think "QB heavy" means "a quarter of the picks" and not "three quarters of the picks" like the post I was responding to suggested. There's no way any GM passes up a Watt, Miller, or Atkins for the 10th pick of QBs. Get past those franchise-defining difference makers and it starts getting interesting.

We don't disagree too much here. I think we would see 12 or so QBs in the first 40 picks at a minimum. It's an interesting exercise, wouldn't mind participating in a mock draft. I don't see how anyone passes on Watt for Weeden, but the above average QBs would go quick.

 

[Warrior]

It's an interesting exercise, wouldn't mind participating in a mock draft.

1.01 Aaron Rodgers1.02...

 

[KellysHeroes]

Rodgers and it's not close.

My thoughts exactly.

Already 29

This. You are building a franchise. For the greatest value in a franchise, a 23 year old is greater than a 29 year old. Even if Luck is more like Eli/Big Ben than Rodgers, 6 years his younger is a huge difference.

I'll take a 29 year old leader and proven champion over a 23 year old that has had an okay to good season by NFL standards. I want to build a franchise that is instilled with the right attitude and approach. I know Rodgers understands how to get it done and knows how to lead his team to a championship. I don't know that with Luck or RG3.

GB 11-5 record, Indy 11-5 record. I think Luck is figuring it out

 

[sporthenry]

It's an interesting exercise, wouldn't mind participating in a mock draft.

1.01 Aaron Rodgers1.02...

Nice got the second pick. Andrew Luck

 

[matttyl]

I'm starting to come around that maybe I was a bit high with 20-25 QBs taken in the first round, but there has to be at least 10. A team can still be very competitive "missing" on a OLB or corner, but you've got no shot if you miss on a QB.

 

[matttyl]

It's an interesting exercise, wouldn't mind participating in a mock draft.

1.01 Aaron Rodgers1.02...

Nice got the second pick. Andrew Luck

I have to think RG3 would be next.

 

[FUBAR]

It's an interesting exercise, wouldn't mind participating in a mock draft.

1.01 Aaron Rodgers1.02...

Nice got the second pick. Andrew Luck

I have to think RG3 would be next.

agreed, 1.04 is where it starts to get interesting.1.01 Rodgers

1.02 Luck

1.03 RG3

1.04 Matt Ryan (although very tempted to go with Cam Newton)

 

[roadkill1292]

Wouldn't an NFL implosion blow up the draft? That's a fresh start I could get behind, where do I sign up?

 

[tietzjd]

Well you guys all take QB's I build the core of team around OL and DL... And I will win more SB's with what ever QB I get.

 

[sporthenry]

Well you guys all take QB's I build the core of team around OL and DL... And I will win more SB's with what ever QB I get.

Not true. We've seen what a Peyton or Luck can do to a pretty bad team. I've been one of the biggest proponents of other positions in the draft but given the chance to draft a franchise QB who is 22/23 years old, you can't really pass that up. As far as OL, the only position with real value is T. And most of the top tackles like Long and Thomas are in their late 20's. Roaf retired at 35, Ogden at 33. So you are looking at about 6-8 years at best out of them. Whereas luck might have as much as 15+ years left. Not to mention the intrinsic injury possibility of being a tackle and getting rolled up on. Of course QBs have a similar one but I've seen too many lineman rolled up on to pass up Andrew Luck. Now Tyron Smith is only 22 and Trent Williams only 24. I still don't think I'd pass on Luck or a top 5 QB for them but I'd probably go top 10-15 with them.

 

[cheese]

Well you guys all take QB's I build the core of team around OL and DL... And I will win more SB's with what ever QB I get.

I realize this entire thread is opinion, but do you have any examples where a dominant OL led a team to a SB? I can't think of a single one and I can think of dozens where a dominant QB led a team to a SB.

 

[matttyl]

Well you guys all take QB's I build the core of team around OL and DL... And I will win more SB's with what ever QB I get.

I realize this entire thread is opinion, but do you have any examples where a dominant OL led a team to a SB? I can't think of a single one and I can think of dozens where a dominant QB led a team to a SB.

And a dominate QB can overcome the short comings of an average OL.

 

[CalBear]

Well you guys all take QB's I build the core of team around OL and DL... And I will win more SB's with what ever QB I get.

I realize this entire thread is opinion, but do you have any examples where a dominant OL led a team to a SB? I can't think of a single one and I can think of dozens where a dominant QB led a team to a SB.

Dallas Cowboys dynasty.

 

[cheese]

Well you guys all take QB's I build the core of team around OL and DL... And I will win more SB's with what ever QB I get.

I realize this entire thread is opinion, but do you have any examples where a dominant OL led a team to a SB? I can't think of a single one and I can think of dozens where a dominant QB led a team to a SB.

And a dominate QB can overcome the short comings of an average OL.

Right, and you can even spend your #1 pick on a stud LT and end up with an average OL. If you could draft the entire 5 from the best offensive line in the league as a unit, then it might be closer.

 

[cheese]

Well you guys all take QB's I build the core of team around OL and DL... And I will win more SB's with what ever QB I get.

I realize this entire thread is opinion, but do you have any examples where a dominant OL led a team to a SB? I can't think of a single one and I can think of dozens where a dominant QB led a team to a SB.

Dallas Cowboys dynasty.

Sorry, I meant OL to mean a dominant offensive lineman, not an entire line. I think the Cowboys are the example of the value if you could draft the entire unit, but I'm not sure 1 stud lineman got them there.

 

[meyerj31]

Well you guys all take QB's I build the core of team around OL and DL... And I will win more SB's with what ever QB I get.

I realize this entire thread is opinion, but do you have any examples where a dominant OL led a team to a SB? I can't think of a single one and I can think of dozens where a dominant QB led a team to a SB.

Dallas Cowboys dynasty.

Sorry, I meant OL to mean a dominant offensive lineman, not an entire line. I think the Cowboys are the example of the value if you could draft the entire unit, but I'm not sure 1 stud lineman got them there.

?????No doubt they had a good line but they had a 1st round pick hall of fame QB. That argument is null and void. We've seen many examples of QBs carrying entire teams, let alone just the OL. There's no way I take any LT in the league over the top 15 or even 20 QBs. You have to have a QB in this game.The first non-QB would have to be someone incredibly impactful regardless of the guys around him... I'd have to go with Watt, also due to age. If Revis was younger or not injured I'd probably choose him; he takes away half the field from the opponent every week. He doesn't have the stats because no one throws to him.

 

[FUBAR]

Well you guys all take QB's I build the core of team around OL and DL... And I will win more SB's with what ever QB I get.

You do realize that you're talking about 8-9 players, while those with a top QB can get 7 equal players on the line along with a great QB. Right?

 

[SSOG]

?????No doubt they had a good line but they had a 1st round pick hall of fame QB. That argument is null and void. We've seen many examples of QBs carrying entire teams, let alone just the OL. There's no way I take any LT in the league over the top 15 or even 20 QBs. You have to have a QB in this game.The first non-QB would have to be someone incredibly impactful regardless of the guys around him... I'd have to go with Watt, also due to age. If Revis was younger or not injured I'd probably choose him; he takes away half the field from the opponent every week. He doesn't have the stats because no one throws to him.

15, 20 QBs? Do you guys even realize how many good QBs there are in the league? Hint: not 20. Here's a name check:Carson Palmer, Philip Rivers, Peyton Manning, Matt Cassell, Ben Roethlisberger, Joe Flacco, Brandon Weeden, Andy Dalton, Andrew Luck, Chad Henne, Matt Schaub, Jake Locker, Tom Brady, Ryan Tannehill, Mark Sanchez, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Colin Kaepernick, Russell Wilson, Kevin Kolb, Sam Bradford, Christian Ponder, Aaron Rodgers, Matt Stafford, Jay Cutler, Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, Josh Freeman, Tony Romo, Eli Manning, Robert Griffin, Nick Foles. Throw in Alex Smith, Matt Barkley, and Geno if you want, it won't matter. Alright, now let's run down the list of names of guys who are no-brainers- under 30, at least one season of high quality play. Rodgers, Griffin, Luck, Stafford, Ryan, Newton, Wilson, Dalton. Alright, that gets us to 8. Now let's add the slightly older guys for franchises willing to take the short view. That's Brees, Roeth, Eli, and Cutler- 12. Maybe some prospects go based on upside- say, Tannehill, Kaepernick, Freeman. We're at 15. Can you come up with 5 more names, here? Is a franchise taking a 37 year old Peyton or 36 year old Brady in the first? Schaub? Flacco? Romo? Hell, if we re-ran the 2012 draft, I'm not sure even Tannehill would go over Khalil. He didn't the first time, after all. It's easy to throw out numbers, but when you start looking at the names those numbers represent, the argument starts to look a lot sillier.

 

[CalBear]

Well you guys all take QB's I build the core of team around OL and DL... And I will win more SB's with what ever QB I get.

I realize this entire thread is opinion, but do you have any examples where a dominant OL led a team to a SB? I can't think of a single one and I can think of dozens where a dominant QB led a team to a SB.

Dallas Cowboys dynasty.

Sorry, I meant OL to mean a dominant offensive lineman, not an entire line. I think the Cowboys are the example of the value if you could draft the entire unit, but I'm not sure 1 stud lineman got them there.

?????No doubt they had a good line but they had a 1st round pick hall of fame QB. That argument is null and void. We've seen many examples of QBs carrying entire teams, let alone just the OL. There's no way I take any LT in the league over the top 15 or even 20 QBs. You have to have a QB in this game.The first non-QB would have to be someone incredibly impactful regardless of the guys around him... I'd have to go with Watt, also due to age. If Revis was younger or not injured I'd probably choose him; he takes away half the field from the opponent every week. He doesn't have the stats because no one throws to him.

Aikman is only a Hall of Fame QB because he played on a team with a dominant OL. He could easily have had the career of Jim Everett or Steve DeBerg.

 

[sporthenry]

Well you guys all take QB's I build the core of team around OL and DL... And I will win more SB's with what ever QB I get.

I realize this entire thread is opinion, but do you have any examples where a dominant OL led a team to a SB? I can't think of a single one and I can think of dozens where a dominant QB led a team to a SB.

Dallas Cowboys dynasty.

Sorry, I meant OL to mean a dominant offensive lineman, not an entire line. I think the Cowboys are the example of the value if you could draft the entire unit, but I'm not sure 1 stud lineman got them there.

?????No doubt they had a good line but they had a 1st round pick hall of fame QB. That argument is null and void. We've seen many examples of QBs carrying entire teams, let alone just the OL. There's no way I take any LT in the league over the top 15 or even 20 QBs. You have to have a QB in this game.The first non-QB would have to be someone incredibly impactful regardless of the guys around him... I'd have to go with Watt, also due to age. If Revis was younger or not injured I'd probably choose him; he takes away half the field from the opponent every week. He doesn't have the stats because no one throws to him.

Well the fact that there are so many good QB's, you mention at least 15/20, wouldn't that make it more prudent to wait. You are saying there are 15/20 QBs worthy of first round selection so there must be some solid QBs after that or do you think the drop off just occurs at 20? QBs at the top are valuable, sure. But really what value is Wilson/Kaepernick getting us over other value. Wilson/Kapernick were 2nd/3rd round selections this year. Is the difference between a LT who will be borderline PB for 10 years compared to the average LT bigger than the difference between Wilson/Kapernick and say a Nick Foles or even a Matt Flynn? Or even Watt as you mention, is the difference between him and the average DE bigger than the aforementioned? People would reach like hell on QBs and that is fine but that doesn't make it right. If anything, this reaching makes it better to wait on QBs.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Like I said, Luck or Rodgers. RG3 is too much of an injury risk with his frame and running.

 

[Black Box]

Romo?

 

[cheese]

?????No doubt they had a good line but they had a 1st round pick hall of fame QB. That argument is null and void. We've seen many examples of QBs carrying entire teams, let alone just the OL. There's no way I take any LT in the league over the top 15 or even 20 QBs. You have to have a QB in this game.The first non-QB would have to be someone incredibly impactful regardless of the guys around him... I'd have to go with Watt, also due to age. If Revis was younger or not injured I'd probably choose him; he takes away half the field from the opponent every week. He doesn't have the stats because no one throws to him.

15, 20 QBs? Do you guys even realize how many good QBs there are in the league? Hint: not 20. Here's a name check:Carson Palmer, Philip Rivers, Peyton Manning, Matt Cassell, Ben Roethlisberger, Joe Flacco, Brandon Weeden, Andy Dalton, Andrew Luck, Chad Henne, Matt Schaub, Jake Locker, Tom Brady, Ryan Tannehill, Mark Sanchez, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Colin Kaepernick, Russell Wilson, Kevin Kolb, Sam Bradford, Christian Ponder, Aaron Rodgers, Matt Stafford, Jay Cutler, Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, Josh Freeman, Tony Romo, Eli Manning, Robert Griffin, Nick Foles. Throw in Alex Smith, Matt Barkley, and Geno if you want, it won't matter. Alright, now let's run down the list of names of guys who are no-brainers- under 30, at least one season of high quality play. Rodgers, Griffin, Luck, Stafford, Ryan, Newton, Wilson, Dalton. Alright, that gets us to 8. Now let's add the slightly older guys for franchises willing to take the short view. That's Brees, Roeth, Eli, and Cutler- 12. Maybe some prospects go based on upside- say, Tannehill, Kaepernick, Freeman. We're at 15. Can you come up with 5 more names, here? Is a franchise taking a 37 year old Peyton or 36 year old Brady in the first? Schaub? Flacco? Romo? Hell, if we re-ran the 2012 draft, I'm not sure even Tannehill would go over Khalil. He didn't the first time, after all. It's easy to throw out numbers, but when you start looking at the names those numbers represent, the argument starts to look a lot sillier.

You guys are thinking way too far ahead if you don't think Peyton/Brady would be worth a 1st round pick. Heck, my favorite team has 3 of the guys being discussed (Atkins, Green, Dalton) and I would trade all 3 of them in 1 second for Tom Brady. You've got to try to win in the short term 1st and worry about guessing at the future as a backup plan IMO.Add those 2 to your 8. Ben, Eli, Brees all make you an instant contender. That's 13. Romo and Flacco are borderline turn guys to me. I agree with you once we start getting beyond 15 and into that 16-20 range. The top end of that 15-20 projection likely isn't happening once you start putting names with them. Once you are in the bottom half, you're hurting regardless and might as well wait. Drafting from the back end of this thing would stink no matter what strategy you use. Look at a game like SF/GB, where SF is superior in basically every way and yet is a 50/50 matchup simply because GB has Rodgers and SF doesn't. You really have to hit a home run everywhere to make up the difference at the top.

 

[meyerj31]

Well you guys all take QB's I build the core of team around OL and DL... And I will win more SB's with what ever QB I get.

I realize this entire thread is opinion, but do you have any examples where a dominant OL led a team to a SB? I can't think of a single one and I can think of dozens where a dominant QB led a team to a SB.

Dallas Cowboys dynasty.

Sorry, I meant OL to mean a dominant offensive lineman, not an entire line. I think the Cowboys are the example of the value if you could draft the entire unit, but I'm not sure 1 stud lineman got them there.

?????No doubt they had a good line but they had a 1st round pick hall of fame QB. That argument is null and void. We've seen many examples of QBs carrying entire teams, let alone just the OL. There's no way I take any LT in the league over the top 15 or even 20 QBs. You have to have a QB in this game.

The first non-QB would have to be someone incredibly impactful regardless of the guys around him... I'd have to go with Watt, also due to age. If Revis was younger or not injured I'd probably choose him; he takes away half the field from the opponent every week. He doesn't have the stats because no one throws to him.

Aikman is only a Hall of Fame QB because he played on a team with a dominant OL. He could easily have had the career of Jim Everett or Steve DeBerg.

As a Packer fan I loathe Aikman but this is a garbage comment. No QB gets gifted to the hall of fame because of a good offensive line. That statement is so absurd it's almost not even worth it to respond. The Viks had an all-pro line for years, Houston has had one for a while, 49ers are in the midst of one right now, and their QBs aren't in the same realm of HOF discussion. Absurd.

 

[meyerj31]

?????

No doubt they had a good line but they had a 1st round pick hall of fame QB. That argument is null and void. We've seen many examples of QBs carrying entire teams, let alone just the OL. There's no way I take any LT in the league over the top 15 or even 20 QBs. You have to have a QB in this game.

The first non-QB would have to be someone incredibly impactful regardless of the guys around him... I'd have to go with Watt, also due to age. If Revis was younger or not injured I'd probably choose him; he takes away half the field from the opponent every week. He doesn't have the stats because no one throws to him.

15, 20 QBs? Do you guys even realize how many good QBs there are in the league? Hint: not 20. Here's a name check:Carson Palmer, Philip Rivers, Peyton Manning, Matt Cassell, Ben Roethlisberger, Joe Flacco, Brandon Weeden, Andy Dalton, Andrew Luck, Chad Henne, Matt Schaub, Jake Locker, Tom Brady, Ryan Tannehill, Mark Sanchez, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Colin Kaepernick, Russell Wilson, Kevin Kolb, Sam Bradford, Christian Ponder, Aaron Rodgers, Matt Stafford, Jay Cutler, Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, Josh Freeman, Tony Romo, Eli Manning, Robert Griffin, Nick Foles. Throw in Alex Smith, Matt Barkley, and Geno if you want, it won't matter.

Alright, now let's run down the list of names of guys who are no-brainers- under 30, at least one season of high quality play. Rodgers, Griffin, Luck, Stafford, Ryan, Newton, Wilson, Dalton. Alright, that gets us to 8. Now let's add the slightly older guys for franchises willing to take the short view. That's Brees, Roeth, Eli, and Cutler- 12. Maybe some prospects go based on upside- say, Tannehill, Kaepernick, Freeman. We're at 15. Can you come up with 5 more names, here? Is a franchise taking a 37 year old Peyton or 36 year old Brady in the first? Schaub? Flacco? Romo? Hell, if we re-ran the 2012 draft, I'm not sure even Tannehill would go over Khalil. He didn't the first time, after all.

It's easy to throw out numbers, but when you start looking at the names those numbers represent, the argument starts to look a lot sillier.

Absolutely. I'm not sure what to say if you don't think a team like the Cardinals or the Jags would jump at the chance to take Manning for 3-5 years and be in the playoffs that whole time. Look at what he has done in Denver in one year. It's a QB league, and if you don't have "The Man" you aren't winning games. I would be shocked if Manning lasted past the first round. This isn't dynasty fantasy football, mate. This is the real deal, and you need the real deal to win. Manning is the real deal, even if you only had him for at most 5 years.

 

[Donsmith753]

Who voted for: WilsonImTheScientist

 

[FUBAR]

15, 20 QBs? Do you guys even realize how many good QBs there are in the league? Hint: not 20. Here's a name check:

 

[IHEARTFF]

There is no way any team is picking Andy Dalton or Ryan Tannehill over Tom Brady or Peyton Manning.These 8 should go before any non-QB:RodgersLuckRG3RyanBreesWilsonNewtonKaepernick

 

[GregR]

Briefly skimmed thread. Apologies if it's already been mentioned, but Matt Waldman's Rookie Scouting Portfolio Writers Project mock draft is going on right now, redrafting the entire NFL from scratch. They are a little into round 2.

First round below. I've highlighted the non-QBs. Edit to add if you go to the second link above and click on the drafter's name, it will show a write up on why they made the pick they made.

[*]Dane Brugler - Aaron Rodgers, Quarterback

[*]Sam Monson -Peyton Manning, Quarterback

[*]Josh Katzowitz - Tom Brady, Quarterback

[*]Matt Miller - Andrew Luck, Quarterback

[*]NFLosophy - Drew Brees, Quarterback

[*]Sigmund Bloom - Robert Griffin, Quarterback

[*]Lance Zierlein - J.J. Watt, Defensive End

[*]Ben Muth - Cam Newton, Quarterback

[*]Cian Fahey - Calais Campbell, Defensive End

[*]Will Brinson - Russell Wilson, Quarterback

[*]Chris Burke - Colin Kaepernick, Quarterback

[*]Matt Williamson - Ben Roethlisberger, Quarterback

[*]Rumford Johnny - Von Miller, Outside Linebacker

[*]Alex Miglio - Matthew Stafford, Quarterback

[*]Russ Lande - Matt Ryan, Quarterback

[*]Joe Goodberry - Eli Manning, Quarterback

[*]Josh Norris - Joe Flacco, Quarterback

[*]Aaron Schatz - Calvin Johnson, Wide Receiver

[*]Michael Schottey - Ryan Tannehill, Quarterback

[*]Josh Liskiewitz - Richard Sherman, Cornerback

[*]Jene Bramel - Aldon Smith, Defensive End/Outside Linebacker

[*] Field Yates - Adrian Peterson, Running Back

[*]Scott Kacsmar - Tony Romo, Quarterback

[*]Simon Clancy - Sam Bradford, Quarterback

[*]Ian Kenyon - A.J. Green, Wide Receiver

[*]Marc Lillibridge - Duane Brown, Left Tackle

[*]Matt Waldman - Geno Atkins, Defensive Tackle

[*]Ryan Riddle - Rob Gronkowski, Tight End

[*]Mike Tanier - Clay Matthews, Outside Linebacker

[*]Dave Richard - Joe Thomas, Left Tackle

[*]Danny Kelly - Phillip Rivers, Quarterback

[*]Chase Stuart - Josh Freeman, Quarterback

 

[SSOG]

I was just posting about this on twitter, but I think some of those people who reached for a QB at the end of the run panicked big-time. They're now into the 3rd round and Andy Dalton is still available. So is Alex Smith. You have guys like Palmer and Cassell on the board who have proven capable of triggering a top offense when given strong weapons. Interesting prospects like Osweiler, Foles, or Cousins. If you opened up your draft with Calvin, Marshall, and Jamaal Charles, or Gronk, Harvin, and VJax, would it even matter who played QB? I just can't fathom taking, say, Philip Rivers or Josh Freeman over Ndamakong Suh or Patrick Peterson or Darrell Revis.

 

[GregR]

I was just posting about this on twitter, but I think some of those people who reached for a QB at the end of the run panicked big-time. They're now into the 3rd round and Andy Dalton is still available. So is Alex Smith. You have guys like Palmer and Cassell on the board who have proven capable of triggering a top offense when given strong weapons. Interesting prospects like Osweiler, Foles, or Cousins. If you opened up your draft with Calvin, Marshall, and Jamaal Charles, or Gronk, Harvin, and VJax, would it even matter who played QB? I just can't fathom taking, say, Philip Rivers or Josh Freeman over Ndamakong Suh or Patrick Peterson or Darrell Revis.

Not to mention that they are building a franchise and not just a team for a single year. I've seen at least one person express that if they wait on a QB and don't get one they are happy with, they are fine building up the core of the team and get a QB in the draft or free agency in the near future.

 

[Wu-banger]

We have done this on the board a few times as well .... and are starting another one here .

They have gone well in the past.

I think a few of the writers in Waldman's draft are way off base .... franchise left tackles like Thomas / Brown are way more valuable than a number of guys listed ahead of them.