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The Nick Foles era (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Jed
- Start date
just meant that many people defended his poor numbers by saying all he does is hand the ball off. He's been throwing the ball a lot lately (albeit unsuccessfully)
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Footballguy
GoBirds
Footballguy
Mighty Mice
Footballguy
Horrible to see Foles performance this season, as an admitted fan from his time in Philadelphia. Thought the kid had toughness and was a really good guy off the field.
His last 5 games in Philadelphia (2014 weeks 4-8) it kinda looked like there were some real 'chinks in the armor.' 7 TDs/8 INTs, 77.8 Rating, only over 5.8 YPA once, but with the Eagles winning 3 of those 5, and 6 of 8 that season, I had to think the 'real' version of this kid was somewhere between the phenomenal 2013 and the yuck he exhibited in 2014.
Read reports that he was a 'leader' and really took charge in camp, and when he was extended I figured he would be a 'good not great' NFL starter, and fit perfectly in a run heavy offense with a solid D.
Very sad to see a guy I rooted for and thought well of take this much of a turn south. Never saw the bottom falling out this much, or this quickly.
His last 5 games in Philadelphia (2014 weeks 4-8) it kinda looked like there were some real 'chinks in the armor.' 7 TDs/8 INTs, 77.8 Rating, only over 5.8 YPA once, but with the Eagles winning 3 of those 5, and 6 of 8 that season, I had to think the 'real' version of this kid was somewhere between the phenomenal 2013 and the yuck he exhibited in 2014.
Read reports that he was a 'leader' and really took charge in camp, and when he was extended I figured he would be a 'good not great' NFL starter, and fit perfectly in a run heavy offense with a solid D.
Very sad to see a guy I rooted for and thought well of take this much of a turn south. Never saw the bottom falling out this much, or this quickly.
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bulger2holt
Footballguy
He needs a top tier o-line, good running game and good WR's to succeed.
jurb26
Footballguy
He just doesn't look comfortable in the offense. Even when he's had protection he misses throws or delivers late. Yeah, the oline is awful but he simply has to make plays when they are there and he rarely has. At this point I'd expect St. L to be addressing QB in the offseason. If not maybe he looks a lot better next year if a few pieces are added and he's more comfortable.
dkp993
Footballguy
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
lol I never got one
please give us your expert commentary on Foles' latest game. We're dying to hear it. Were the three picks the line's fault? And let us know why this time, he was benched for some dude named Mannion. I'll hang up and listen.
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ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Cook and Britt can't get open. This lame offense doesn't even use Gurley out of the backfield and you'll get hit 10+ times a game. There isn't a QB in the league that would put up respectable numbers here(not Luck, not Rodger, no one). Int off of Cook in tight coverage(of course), then he gets hit on the pick looking for Britt who doesn't even go for the ball last week. You might as well retire buddy. No way any coach/GM hands him a job next season.
I thought Chip was insane for trading a QB winning 78% of his games with a 94 passer rate, but Fisher takes the cake. His recent track record is terrible, yet he's one of the highest paid coaches in the league. You were just 4-3 after beating Ari at home and undefeated in the div. You lose to Minn in OT and blame it all on Foles.
Time to transfer this energy to Bridgewater until something new happens lol. This was fun, but he's done for.
I thought Chip was insane for trading a QB winning 78% of his games with a 94 passer rate, but Fisher takes the cake. His recent track record is terrible, yet he's one of the highest paid coaches in the league. You were just 4-3 after beating Ari at home and undefeated in the div. You lose to Minn in OT and blame it all on Foles.
Time to transfer this energy to Bridgewater until something new happens lol. This was fun, but he's done for.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Fisher has I think six winning seasons in two decades (off the top of my head, without referencing).
When I looked 50 deep among active and former HCs with the most games coached (his body of work and resume has nothing if not longevity), he was something like in the bottom two regarding career winning percentage. Not good. He has inherited bad teams twice and the Titans went through a salary cap purge (though he may have contributed to some missteps that brought it about in the first place, sometimes hard to disentangle what was the doing of Fisher, former GM Floyd Reese and even hands on owner Bud Adams in HOU/TEN - pretty sure he is calling the shots in STL), but even after being established and installing his system for multiple years, he has proven capable of little more than consistent mediocrity. If you want to take a team from 1-15 to 7-9, he's your guy. From 7-9 to 11-5, not so much.
They have been decimated by injury, but so have a lot of teams. I still expect him to survive this season, but in the past month, I'm concerned the team has quit on him. If true, obviously that would be a terrible sign. Other than McNair, he generally hasn't done well with QBs, but maybe that is one reason GB, PHI and NE were consistently competitive (Belichick and Reid also with the most career games among active coaches?). GBs Ron Wolf had a philosophy of drafting QBs nearly every years, and he was able to flip QBs like Mark Brunell and Aaron Brooks for draft picks. He ACQUIRED Favre via trade, than drafted one of the best QBs of his generation in Rodgers when 20+ other teams passed, despite having Favre and needing to park him in the garage for three years (for all they knew, it could have been longer). They value the position, and so will likely have historically great starting QBs Favre/Rodgers more or less continuously for a third of a century plus. NE and PHI flipped QBs for second rounders in multiple instances between them (NE got Brady in the sixth, they seemed OK with former #1 overall Bledsoe).
In the past 2-3 years, Fisher needed to start a proven non-starting caliber QB for a significant part of the season in Kellen Clemens. Backups thrust into starting roles in that span such as Hill, Davis and Keenum have one thing in common. They are UFAs. I get that he prioritizes the run, but if he had at least a marginal or competent QB, it would make the job of the offense in general and Gurley specifically a lot easier. He has also, as noted above, seriously bungled the OL in his STL tenure. Injuries happen at QB (especially if you have a lousy pass blocking OL, they are almost inextricably intertwined), and his contingency plan Bs in STL at the most all important position in the game have been impossible to characterize even by the most supportive observers and sympathetic critics, without sugar coating it, as anything better than heinous.
The current top five in Rams salary cap: Quinn, Long, Cook, Saffold and Kendricks, other than Quinn, have had very little impact, so imo that has been grossly mismanaged. Fisher has contributed to his woes, it isn't all about injuries.
When I looked 50 deep among active and former HCs with the most games coached (his body of work and resume has nothing if not longevity), he was something like in the bottom two regarding career winning percentage. Not good. He has inherited bad teams twice and the Titans went through a salary cap purge (though he may have contributed to some missteps that brought it about in the first place, sometimes hard to disentangle what was the doing of Fisher, former GM Floyd Reese and even hands on owner Bud Adams in HOU/TEN - pretty sure he is calling the shots in STL), but even after being established and installing his system for multiple years, he has proven capable of little more than consistent mediocrity. If you want to take a team from 1-15 to 7-9, he's your guy. From 7-9 to 11-5, not so much.
They have been decimated by injury, but so have a lot of teams. I still expect him to survive this season, but in the past month, I'm concerned the team has quit on him. If true, obviously that would be a terrible sign. Other than McNair, he generally hasn't done well with QBs, but maybe that is one reason GB, PHI and NE were consistently competitive (Belichick and Reid also with the most career games among active coaches?). GBs Ron Wolf had a philosophy of drafting QBs nearly every years, and he was able to flip QBs like Mark Brunell and Aaron Brooks for draft picks. He ACQUIRED Favre via trade, than drafted one of the best QBs of his generation in Rodgers when 20+ other teams passed, despite having Favre and needing to park him in the garage for three years (for all they knew, it could have been longer). They value the position, and so will likely have historically great starting QBs Favre/Rodgers more or less continuously for a third of a century plus. NE and PHI flipped QBs for second rounders in multiple instances between them (NE got Brady in the sixth, they seemed OK with former #1 overall Bledsoe).
In the past 2-3 years, Fisher needed to start a proven non-starting caliber QB for a significant part of the season in Kellen Clemens. Backups thrust into starting roles in that span such as Hill, Davis and Keenum have one thing in common. They are UFAs. I get that he prioritizes the run, but if he had at least a marginal or competent QB, it would make the job of the offense in general and Gurley specifically a lot easier. He has also, as noted above, seriously bungled the OL in his STL tenure. Injuries happen at QB (especially if you have a lousy pass blocking OL, they are almost inextricably intertwined), and his contingency plan Bs in STL at the most all important position in the game have been impossible to characterize even by the most supportive observers and sympathetic critics, without sugar coating it, as anything better than heinous.
The current top five in Rams salary cap: Quinn, Long, Cook, Saffold and Kendricks, other than Quinn, have had very little impact, so imo that has been grossly mismanaged. Fisher has contributed to his woes, it isn't all about injuries.
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did ShaHBucks hijack your member name?
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Stealing millions. I don't know how he gets so much respect still. *I mock Chip, but at least he won lately.
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There's a difference between even being mediocre and thriving. No one said thriving. You're still trying to give excuses. You've reached a new pathetic low even for yourself.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Luck, Rodgers, Brady
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
You're the one who can't admit Foles sucks. It's over. Bortles is great, Foles sucks, it's okay to be wrong. I wish you the best in dealing with it.Pathetic low?it's a ####### football forum lol. Only you would care that much
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
It isn't just that he has been bad, he was historically bad (in some stats).
Earlier Bernie Miklasz looked at it and the Rams had the worst third down conversion at that point since the stat was tracked (nearly a half century?). So given that plenty of other QBs have ALSO had poor supporting casts and surrounding talent, it is hard to blame everything on external factors (coaching, OL, WR, injury, etc.). There is no doubt in my mind Foles has been at least part of the problem. There have been times when he had time to throw and receivers were open that he just missed and was wildly inaccurate.
Earlier Bernie Miklasz looked at it and the Rams had the worst third down conversion at that point since the stat was tracked (nearly a half century?). So given that plenty of other QBs have ALSO had poor supporting casts and surrounding talent, it is hard to blame everything on external factors (coaching, OL, WR, injury, etc.). There is no doubt in my mind Foles has been at least part of the problem. There have been times when he had time to throw and receivers were open that he just missed and was wildly inaccurate.
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ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Last week, Foles converted five of his first eight 3rd down attempts in that game….one of the ‘misses’ a ball right in Brian Quick’s hands, and dropped.
Chaka
Footballguy
I'm not sure what has been going on in this thread but your response seems like pure nonsense.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Partly.. Expectations and perception will always alter the narrative. Luck had to deal with similar issues as Foles this season. The results, on a per pass basis, were almost on par with a huge drop off in production across the board. Even Rodgers is having moments for the same reasons.
Chaka
Footballguy
That's all fine and dandy but Foles has been epically bad this year and you can't put it all on "the system". I have been as hard on Bradford as anyone and he was never this bad in the same system and he never had a Todd Gurley behind him and Tavon never played at this level for him.And the notion that guys like Luck, Rodgers and Brady wouldn't be crushing whatever Foles has done this season is pure nonsense.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Gurley's numbers hte past 4 game losing streak? And Gurley is an amazing talent. Tavon only matters with Foles. I've had that discussion 100x when it came to Eagles players. Really, there's issues here aside from making Foles the scapegoat unless you think he forgot how to complete a pass overnight.
Chaka
Footballguy
I'm not intentionally targeting you ShaHBucks and I even agree with some of your premise but there is no defense for Foles this year. And it probably isn't all him but Bradford outproduced him with a lesser supporting cast in the same system (so did Austin Davis iirc). And,sorry but, you threw our names like Brady, Luck and Rodgers which is so far beyond the pale that I am surprised that you haven't owned the nonsense of that suggestion yet.
Then again Foles outproduced Bradford in Philadelphia but he had a better supporting cast.
Then again Foles outproduced Bradford in Philadelphia but he had a better supporting cast.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
For myself, I can't weight one game as much as being the worst in about a half century for a significant part of the season. Again, other QBs have had the odds stacked against them, yet literally NOBODY did worse in that stretch. Clearly that must be at least in part on him, imo.ShaHBucks said:
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fred_1_15301
Footballguy
I haven't really followed the Rams much but has their defense really been "great" this year? It seems like they've been middle of the road. Although that could be a result of their terrible offense.
element of surprise being the biggest one. It was a result of Chip's offense. Just watch video of that season. Receivers running wide open all over the place. It's sad when a team is praying Case Keenum gets better quickly.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Here is some more nonsense... Tom Brady the past three weeks has thrown for under 55%. His Oline is in shambles and his top targets are Lafell and Amendola. Brady just completed 51% of his passes vs a team with a banged up secondary that was getting torched for weeks. He was constantly pushed out of the pocket, had no time to make reads and was hit 10+ times where he couldn't step into any throws(Foles is the most hit QB in the league per game). Even when he defeats all of that his WR drop the ball. Issues like that will even bring the greats to their knees, believe it or not. Now imagine that for a season. I spoke on Luck's numbers. Same issues. Rodgers is having the same issues and look more 'human' I guess.
Chaka
Footballguy
Is that also the game where Brady throw for over 300 yards, passed for 3 TDs and ran for another?
So are you blaming the system in New England or the fact that they have been decimated by injury?
Are you suggesting that if Foles were in New England he would do what Brady does, year-in-year-out?
Foles had a magical run two years ago, it was truly impressive (he was on my roster and I benefited greatly from it) but so did Don Majkowski once many moons ago. That season doesn't make him great, or legitimate as a long term QB prospect particularly considering that he didn't even come close to repeating it the following season.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
I'm not getting into the rhetoric. My bottom line is its really easy to oversimplify this as Foles sucks. It's been assumed that there is one, simple cause of Foles drop off in production when in reality it could have been caused by a number of jointly sufficient causes(some of them I've been #####ing about since). I would say the same for any QB in this particular situation. Not one person has refuted my concerns yet. Idk how 2013 doesn't even legitimize him as a worthy prospect to you. No one wouldn't have had a drop off from a season like that byw
Looks like the era might continue...
The Eagles want to undo much of what Chip Kelly did in his disastrous year running team personnel, and they may try to undo the biggest move Kelly made.
A year after trading Nick Foles for Sam Bradford, Philadelphia may let Bradford walk and bring Foles back. Adam Schefter of ESPN reports that the Eagles are not expected to use the franchise tag to keep Bradford, and that they are interested in acquiring Foles.
That’s no surprise: Bradford hasn’t played well enough to justify the $20 million salary that would come with the franchise tag. And Foles played well enough at times in Philadelphia that the Eagles may think he could win for them again.
The Rams, however, control Foles for now, as he’s under contract for 2016. But Foles has a $6 million roster bonus due on the third day of the league year, and after he was benched for Case Keenum last year, the Rams may decide to cut Foles and set him free in 2016.
If that happens, Foles may find himself back in Philadelphia, playing for new Eagles head coach Doug Pederson, who was the Eagles’ quarterbacks coach in Foles’ rookie year.
The Eagles want to undo much of what Chip Kelly did in his disastrous year running team personnel, and they may try to undo the biggest move Kelly made.
A year after trading Nick Foles for Sam Bradford, Philadelphia may let Bradford walk and bring Foles back. Adam Schefter of ESPN reports that the Eagles are not expected to use the franchise tag to keep Bradford, and that they are interested in acquiring Foles.
That’s no surprise: Bradford hasn’t played well enough to justify the $20 million salary that would come with the franchise tag. And Foles played well enough at times in Philadelphia that the Eagles may think he could win for them again.
The Rams, however, control Foles for now, as he’s under contract for 2016. But Foles has a $6 million roster bonus due on the third day of the league year, and after he was benched for Case Keenum last year, the Rams may decide to cut Foles and set him free in 2016.
If that happens, Foles may find himself back in Philadelphia, playing for new Eagles head coach Doug Pederson, who was the Eagles’ quarterbacks coach in Foles’ rookie year.
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