The ***OFFICIAL*** Washington, DC thread (3 Viewers)

[dgreen]

Something like this could be fun. You could mix that in with an overnight stay on the Eastern Shore and a visit to Assateague.

Baltimore and Annapolis would be good visits, too.

As mentioned, going out towards the Shenendoah would be nice. Good hiking, canoeing, kayaking, tubing. A lot of wineries out that direction (but probably not a lot of fun, legally, for 16 year olds) and some quaint towns like Middleburg.

 

[Apple Jack]

If you haven't been, a drive up through VA "wine country" to Harpers Ferry and Antietem is pretty cool. You can walk from downtown HF across the Potomac River to the C&O Canal towpath and down the river a little ways, or up the hill. It's a really nice area if you want outdoors. Or if you haven't done the MD side of Great Falls, that's a must. That's a place that a lot of people new to area are blown away by and it's proximity to downtown. And like I always say, the best thing to do around here is do the city/river/towpath on bikes.

Skyline Drive/Shenandoah Valley is great, too.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Yup Assateague is what I didn't remember. Not a good idea in early April? Fine.

My sister's house is walking distance to Wolf Trap. I've seen a few shows and heard several more from her awesome backyard. I haven't checked but doubt the concert season starts that early.

I'm moderately interested in what you posted, Don Q, but I doubt the 16 year old girls are. Monticello is something we've planned and cancelled twice.

 

[Chaos Commish]

The sail boat idea is interesting, but moreso, I'd rather rent a boat and go out with my bro-in-law's fishing gear. We've done Baltimore and love Annapolis, even have a favorite Italian Deli/wine shop there. Dude in there really knows his wine, and will pair it with whatever you're cooking perfectly.

I think you guys nailed it with Shenendoah/wine country/hiking. I'll look into it more closely on my own, thanks. I'll have more questions in March. I'll try to bring SoCal weather with me, but I haven't had any luck trying so far.

 

[dgreen]

The sail boat idea is interesting, but moreso, I'd rather rent a boat and go out with my bro-in-law's fishing gear.

I'm not a fisherman at all, so I'm not sure if this is "cool" or not. But, I did once join several people on a chartered fishing boat in the Chesapeake Bay out of Chesapeake Beach, MD. We caught several rockfish, but I was totally disappointed they were all to small to keep. Kind of ruined the trip for me. I don't see the point in fishing if you aren't going to be able to actually bring home some dinner.

I think you guys nailed it with Shenendoah/wine country/hiking. I'll look into it more closely on my own, thanks. I'll have more questions in March. I'll try to bring SoCal weather with me, but I haven't had any luck trying so far.

You could even wander a little further to places in West Virginia, like Berkley Springs. Or, once on my way back from Ohio, I stumbled across the Paw Paw Tunnel. My sons needed to pee and we just happened to be by the park so I stopped there. As they were peeing, I read the signs and decided to take the short walk to the tunnel. This was several years ago and I didn't have flashlight app on my phone. I couldn't even get a good enough signal to download an app. It quickly got really dark in the tunnel and we couldn't see anything and turned around. I've been wanting to get back there to go through the tunnel and hike around, but of course I never find myself in the area.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

CC, I live in the Shenendoah Valley. If you decide you may want to wander this way, hit me up and I can give you some pointers based on what y'all would like to do.

I also grew up on the Chesapeake and know several charter boat captains that operate out of southern AA (Deale) and northern Calvert (Chesapeake Beach mentioned above) if you would like to go out.

eta: you can't swing a dead cat over here without hitting a winery

 

[Chaos Commish]

CC, I live in the Shenendoah Valley. If you decide you may want to wander this way, hit me up and I can give you some pointers based on what y'all would like to do.

I also grew up on the Chesapeake and know several charter boat captains that operate out of southern AA (Deale) and northern Calvert (Chesapeake Beach mentioned above) if you would like to go out.

eta: you can't swing a dead cat over here without hitting a winery

Thanks GB. Will do. Two 16 year olds and wine country may be a bad mix, but it wouldn't be the first time my daughter watched me drink. As long as I work in something for her then we'll be fine. Also the house comes with a brand new Porsche Cayenne, so maybe more than one road trip is in order.

 

[Mr. Ected]

Luray Caverns is a cool trip in the Shenendoah also.

There are other cave sites to visit as well.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

CC, I live in the Shenendoah Valley. If you decide you may want to wander this way, hit me up and I can give you some pointers based on what y'all would like to do.

I also grew up on the Chesapeake and know several charter boat captains that operate out of southern AA (Deale) and northern Calvert (Chesapeake Beach mentioned above) if you would like to go out.

eta: you can't swing a dead cat over here without hitting a winery

Thanks GB. Will do. Two 16 year olds and wine country may be a bad mix, but it wouldn't be the first time my daughter watched me drink. As long as I work in something for her then we'll be fine. Also the house comes with a brand new Porsche Cayenne, so maybe more than one road trip is in order.

Vienna's relatively close to do day trips out here, but I'll offer something else up. I'll scram to Maryland for a couple of days if y'all would like to explore this area for a day or two and want somewhere to stay. My joint ain't luxury, but it's servicable and it'll save you guys a shilling or two.

 

[Brunell4MVP]

We need Ken Beatrice back.

BYE NOW!!

That guy knew his stuff. 100% sports.

Ken - "You're next on Sports Call. Hello"

Caller - "Ken, there's this kid on Stuart High School's JV Basketball Team that just blows me away. Great moves. Good hops. What are his college prospects?"

Ken - "I assume you're talking about James Hutchinson. 6'5" wing guard. Runs about 215 pounds."

Caller - "Yeah. Hutchinson."

Ken - "He's getting some looks from ACC schools. He's averaging 16.4 points and just over 5 rebounds per game. But his grades got to get better and he has some character issues. We'll see if he can overcome those and how he develops on the varsity team. Bye now."

I think he's still living in Haymarket. Guy was a stats encyclopedia and knew more local players than possible before Internet.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

We need Ken Beatrice back.

BYE NOW!!

That guy knew his stuff. 100% sports.

Ken - "You're next on Sports Call. Hello"

Caller - "Ken, there's this kid on Stuart High School's JV Basketball Team that just blows me away. Great moves. Good hops. What are his college prospects?"

Ken - "I assume you're talking about James Hutchinson. 6'5" wing guard. Runs about 215 pounds."

Caller - "Yeah. Hutchinson."

Ken - "He's getting some looks from ACC schools. He's averaging 16.4 points and just over 5 rebounds per game. But his grades got to get better and he has some character issues. We'll see if he can overcome those and how he develops on the varsity team. Bye now."

I think he's still living in Haymarket. Guy was a stats encyclopedia and knew more local players than possible before Internet.

His accent drove me bananas, but he seemed a good, professional dude.

 

[Chaos Commish]

CC, I live in the Shenendoah Valley. If you decide you may want to wander this way, hit me up and I can give you some pointers based on what y'all would like to do.

I also grew up on the Chesapeake and know several charter boat captains that operate out of southern AA (Deale) and northern Calvert (Chesapeake Beach mentioned above) if you would like to go out.

eta: you can't swing a dead cat over here without hitting a winery

Thanks GB. Will do. Two 16 year olds and wine country may be a bad mix, but it wouldn't be the first time my daughter watched me drink. As long as I work in something for her then we'll be fine. Also the house comes with a brand new Porsche Cayenne, so maybe more than one road trip is in order. ght be

Vienna's relatively close to do day trips out here, but I'll offer something else up. I'll scram to Maryland for a couple of days if y'all would like to explore this area for a day or two and want somewhere to stay. My joint ain't luxury, but it's servicable and it'll save you guys a shilling or two.

Wow, what a nice offer. Will certainly keep it in mind. The dog might be an issue with overnighters, not sure, but she's a headcase/rescue who was returned by the first two families who adopted her. My sis sent her to a special ed school for moronic dogs and it barely helped. Knowing how few people can handle her is why I volunteer, and also why I get half the airfare covered, which is how I justify bringing my kid's best friend along.

 

[tom22406]

For you old plane buffs keep May 7th and 8th in mind

http://ww2flyover.org/

May 7, 2015, Victory Gala at the National Air and Space Museum

On Friday, May 8, 2015, join us to celebrate the 70th Anniversary of Victory in Europe (VE Day). The Arsenal of Democracy World War II Victory Capitol Flyover will include 15 historically sequenced warbird formations traveling across our nation’s capital—from the Lincoln Memorial to the Capitol. The Flyover will feature over 70 warbirds representing the major battles of World War II, from Pearl Harbor to D-Day, ending with a final Missing Man Formation to “Taps.” Never before has such a collection of WWII aircraft been assembled at one location—a fitting tribute to the men and women at home and abroad responsible for this Victory in 1945. The Flyover is set to start at 12:10 p.m. and last approximately 40 minutes.

 

[dgreen]

I'm not an old plane buff, but that sounds cool. Too bad it's on a weekday.

 

[Mr. Ected]

I'm not an old plane buff, but that sounds cool. Too bad it's on a weekday.

Need to figure out how to get kids out of school for the day.

 

[VA703]

Ever been to a show at Wolf Trap in Vienna? Great venue if anyone good is playing in April.

Bring your cooler full of beer too

 

[Mr. Ected]

Ever been to a show at Wolf Trap in Vienna? Great venue if anyone good is playing in April.

Bring your cooler full of beer too

Fun to just sit on the lawn and listen. Much smaller venue than the normal outdoor sites, like Jiffy Lube Live (used to be Nissan Pavilion)

 

[Don Quixote]

The plane flyover does sound pretty cool. I may have to bring my camera into work that day (while hopefully not creeping out the people in the hotel across the street).

 

[dgreen]

I'm not an old plane buff, but that sounds cool. Too bad it's on a weekday.

Need to figure out how to get kids out of school for the day.

I'm thinking the same thing.

 

[dgreen]

Dan Steinberg asks "Is Alex Ovechkin Washington's greatest pro athlete of the past 50 years?"

 

[Mr. Ected]

Dan Steinberg asks "Is Alex Ovechkin Washington's greatest pro athlete of the past 50 years?"

C'mon, we had JORDAN!!!

 

[MattFancy]

Dan Steinberg asks "Is Alex Ovechkin Washington's greatest pro athlete of the past 50 years?"

I think so. Maybe make a case for Darrell Green, but Ovechkin has clearly been at the top of his sport during his time here.

 

[dgreen]

Dan Steinberg asks "Is Alex Ovechkin Washington's greatest pro athlete of the past 50 years?"

I think so. Maybe make a case for Darrell Green, but Ovechkin has clearly been at the top of his sport during his time here.

Yeah, I think he's likely the best (given Steinberg's criteria) going back 50 years. Goin forward, Strasburg and Harper could pass him. Could Wall reach that level?

 

[MattFancy]

Dan Steinberg asks "Is Alex Ovechkin Washington's greatest pro athlete of the past 50 years?"

I think so. Maybe make a case for Darrell Green, but Ovechkin has clearly been at the top of his sport during his time here.

Yeah, I think he's likely the best (given Steinberg's criteria) going back 50 years. Goin forward, Strasburg and Harper could pass him. Could Wall reach that level?

All 3 of those guys have the potential. Think Wall could be the most likely, just because I see him being here longer than Harper and Stras. That Nats are reportedly open to moving Stras and I see Harper going to the Yankees when he becomes a FA.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

I'd pick Ray Leonard. I mean, doesn't Ovie have to win something?

 

[thecatch]

Dan Steinberg asks "Is Alex Ovechkin Washington's greatest pro athlete of the past 50 years?"

I think so. Maybe make a case for Darrell Green, but Ovechkin has clearly been at the top of his sport during his time here.

Yeah, I think he's likely the best (given Steinberg's criteria) going back 50 years. Goin forward, Strasburg and Harper could pass him. Could Wall reach that level?

Wall is already better than any current Nats.

 

[Don Quixote]

Dan Steinberg asks "Is Alex Ovechkin Washington's greatest pro athlete of the past 50 years?"

I haven't been around all 50 years, but I think he is. I don't think anyone else could really be called one of the three best players in their sport over that lengthy a period of time. I think Elvin Hayes deserves a bit more mention than he got in that post, but he's not as iconically DC as Unseld is.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I'd pick Ray Leonard. I mean, doesn't Ovie have to win something?

I think you also have to play a prominent team sport where you represent the city. Otherwise it's Katie Ledecky, right?

I think it's Ovie by a mile. Darrell Green is a distant second. Harper or Strasburg would have to lead the team to at least the NL Pennant and put up at least 2 MVP/Cy Young caliber seasons. John Wall is currently the city's best athlete but he's unlikely to even finish in the top three in the MVP race in the near future, or to lead the team to a title. Unless Durant comes. Durant's probably the most likely to surpass Ovie in the next decade, even though I doubt he's coming here.

This is all pretty sad, btw. Even miserable sports cities like Cleveland and Buffalo have had statue-worthy athletes in the last half-century. I don't think we've had any. Maybe Darrell Green because he was so well-liked off the field, or Ovie if the Caps win the Cup while he's here.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Dan Steinberg asks "Is Alex Ovechkin Washington's greatest pro athlete of the past 50 years?"

I think so. Maybe make a case for Darrell Green, but Ovechkin has clearly been at the top of his sport during his time here.

Yeah, I think he's likely the best (given Steinberg's criteria) going back 50 years. Goin forward, Strasburg and Harper could pass him. Could Wall reach that level?

Wall is already better than any current Nats.

Yup. Had this exact conversation with my wife during Sunday's game. Seems weird when you first consider it but then you think it through and there's no doubt about it. Probably one of the ten best players in the entire league. No Nat is close to that level.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Is hockey a prominent team sport? Also, is it simply your status in the league or your status in the world? Marco Etcheverry and Jaime Moreno are two of the very best players who ever played in MLS. They also won titles. Heck, I'd add Eddie Pope to that list as he also anchored the back line for the best USMNT World Cup team since 1930. But of course, they weren't anywhere near the best soccer players in the world, and not many people cared about the MLS.

 

[dgreen]

I'd pick Ray Leonard. I mean, doesn't Ovie have to win something?

Yeah, Steinberg, for whatever reason, limited it to team sport. Sugar Ray and Pete Sampras would be in the mix (and easily leading).

I guess individuals from team sports make it easier to define who is "from Washington". When you get into something like Boxing or Tennis, you'd have to define some kind of criteria. Based on birth? Childhood? High School? Adult home? Where they trained?

 

[TobiasFunke]

Is hockey a prominent team sport? Also, is it simply your status in the league or your status in the world? Marco Etcheverry and Jaime Moreno are two of the very best players who ever played in MLS. They also won titles. Heck, I'd add Eddie Pope to that list as he also anchored the back line for the best USMNT World Cup team since 1930. But of course, they weren't anywhere near the best soccer players in the world, and not many people cared about the MLS.

I think he's just talking about guys who represent the area in prominent team sports. If you start including individuals because they're from the area it turns into a gray area. Does that mean Durant is included too?

I assume the MLS guys wouldn't count because of MLS's status in the sport. Same way you wouldn't count someone like Len Bias or Juan Dixon because they were never among the best basketball players in the world, just the best at their level. Obviously it's pretty arbitrary, but it makes for interesting discussion.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Is hockey a prominent team sport? Also, is it simply your status in the league or your status in the world? Marco Etcheverry and Jaime Moreno are two of the very best players who ever played in MLS. They also won titles. Heck, I'd add Eddie Pope to that list as he also anchored the back line for the best USMNT World Cup team since 1930. But of course, they weren't anywhere near the best soccer players in the world, and not many people cared about the MLS.

I think he's just talking about guys who represent the area in prominent team sports. If you start including individuals because they're from the area it turns into a gray area. Does that mean Durant is included too?

I assume the MLS guys wouldn't count because of MLS's status in the sport. Same way you wouldn't count someone like Len Bias or Juan Dixon because they were never among the best basketball players in the world, just the best at their level. Obviously it's pretty arbitrary, but it makes for interesting discussion.

I just realized I left out Patrick Ewing from that college basketball list, easily the best college player the area has ever seen. I'm an idiot.

 

[(HULK)]

Is hockey a prominent team sport? Also, is it simply your status in the league or your status in the world? Marco Etcheverry and Jaime Moreno are two of the very best players who ever played in MLS. They also won titles. Heck, I'd add Eddie Pope to that list as he also anchored the back line for the best USMNT World Cup team since 1930. But of course, they weren't anywhere near the best soccer players in the world, and not many people cared about the MLS.

I think he's just talking about guys who represent the area in prominent team sports. If you start including individuals because they're from the area it turns into a gray area. Does that mean Durant is included too?

I assume the MLS guys wouldn't count because of MLS's status in the sport. Same way you wouldn't count someone like Len Bias or Juan Dixon because they were never among the best basketball players in the world, just the best at their level. Obviously it's pretty arbitrary, but it makes for interesting discussion.

I just realized I left out Patrick Ewing from that college basketball list, easily the best college player the area has ever seen. I'm an idiot.

I saw GTown w/ Ewing vs Navy w/ Robinson when I was a kid. It was probably the best bball game I've ever seen.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

I'd pick Ray Leonard. I mean, doesn't Ovie have to win something?

Yeah, Steinberg, for whatever reason, limited it to team sport. Sugar Ray and Pete Sampras would be in the mix (and easily leading).

I guess individuals from team sports make it easier to define who is "from Washington". When you get into something like Boxing or Tennis, you'd have to define some kind of criteria. Based on birth? Childhood? High School? Adult home? Where they trained?

That's why I named Leonard. He's been in DC or PG county since he was 8. He was a DMV native for the entirety of his boxing career (a career where he was probably the second most famous fighter in the world behind Ali in his prime). He was also always a feature of local newscasts at the time. He was very much considered a DC guy.

As far as team sports go, I don't think DC is particularly rare in having a player like Ovechkin be the best. Detroit's would be Barry Sanders. Cleveland's would be Lebron, but there'd be a huge asterisk there unless he wins a title in Cleveland. Minneapolis would be either Peterson (who strikes me as a pretty direct comparison to Ovie) or maybe Garnett. I guess Wilt gets in under the gun in Philly, but is he really any more "contemporary" than Sammy Baugh? Otherwise all the Philly contenders kind of run together. Carlton, Schmidt, Iverson, Barkley, Reggie White. Great players, but not Mt. Rushmore guys based on their careers in Philly.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I'd pick Ray Leonard. I mean, doesn't Ovie have to win something?

Yeah, Steinberg, for whatever reason, limited it to team sport. Sugar Ray and Pete Sampras would be in the mix (and easily leading).

I guess individuals from team sports make it easier to define who is "from Washington". When you get into something like Boxing or Tennis, you'd have to define some kind of criteria. Based on birth? Childhood? High School? Adult home? Where they trained?

That's why I named Leonard. He's been in DC or PG county since he was 8. He was a DMV native for the entirety of his boxing career (a career where he was probably the second most famous fighter in the world behind Ali in his prime). He was also always a feature of local newscasts at the time. He was very much considered a DC guy.

As far as team sports go, I don't think DC is particularly rare in having a player like Ovechkin be the best. Detroit's would be Barry Sanders. Cleveland's would be Lebron, but there'd be a huge asterisk there unless he wins a title in Cleveland. Minneapolis would be either Peterson (who strikes me as a pretty direct comparison to Ovie) or maybe Garnett. I guess Wilt gets in under the gun in Philly, but is he really any more "contemporary" than Sammy Baugh? Otherwise all the Philly contenders kind of run together. Carlton, Schmidt, Iverson, Barkley, Reggie White. Great players, but not Mt. Rushmore guys based on their careers in Philly.

Even though I don't generally evaluate athletes based on team accomplishments I think in this context you have to include winning or at least reaching the title game as a big factor bc that's what makes you most memorable to fans. So Detroit might be Gordie Howe or Steve Yzerman even if they weren't quite as good as Sanders in their sports (or maybe they were? Hockey's not my thing). LeBron at least reached the Finals, plus he's frigging LeBron. Ovie is great and all but he's no LeBron. I think when all is said and done Chase Utley might pass all those guys in Philly lore. They love him, and with good reason. He's not quite on the Schmidt level, but he's one tier down and he's got the ring. Minneapolis- yeah, that's ugly. Maybe also Tarkenton because at least he went to some Super Bowls?

Also, that's still some unfortunate company. At least we've got peers though, I guess.

ETA: Forgot the Phillies won a ring with those guys, for some reason I was thinking they lost that one Series. So I'd put Schmidt and Carlton ahead of anyone we've had here. Anyway, kind of getting off track.

 

[thecatch]

Minnesota has Moss too. I know he went on to success elsewhere but a top 3 WR of all time in his prime holds up as well or better than a lot of the competition here.

Garnett is probably a top 20-30 all time NBA player.

 

[Don Quixote]

Philly also has Dr. J. ETA: Bobby Clarke too, who is around Ovie level.

 

[dgreen]

Minnesota has Moss too. I know he went on to success elsewhere but a top 3 WR of all time in his prime holds up as well or better than a lot of the competition here.

Garnett is probably a top 20-30 all time NBA player.

And, as mentioned, Tarkenton. He retired as the all time leader in passing yards and TDs and reached 3 Super Bowls.

 

[tangfoot]

Detroit's would be Barry Sanders.

So Detroit might be Gordie Howe or Steve Yzerman even if they weren't quite as good as Sanders in their sports (or maybe they were? Hockey's not my thing).

Detroit's would be Gordie Howe or Ty Cobb. (Arguably) the top player in the history of their sport, considering their dominance in the era they played in.

Yzerman, Isiah Thomas, Al Kaline would be at least as good as Sanders, and probably higher considering they all won titles. I realize football is a different animal, but Sanders probably isn't even considered the greatest Lion when you take team history into account.

 

[Don Quixote]

The Steinberg article that we are talking about is just past 50 years, so Cobb and most of Howe's years are out of that range.

(I think most would agree that Walter Johnson and Baugh would be #1 and #2 in DC history.)

 

[tangfoot]

The Steinberg article that we are talking about is just past 50 years, so Cobb and most of Howe's years are out of that range.

(I think most would agree that Walter Johnson and Baugh would be #1 and #2 in DC history.)

My bad. Howe played with the Red Wings through 1971, but didn't win a Stanley Cup after 1955 or any other "significant" award after 1963.

Yzerman blows him away from 1965-present. Al Kaline would probably be considered slightly ahead of Yzerman as the #1 for this time period.

 

[The_Man]

This discussion helps reinforce the greatness of Coach "Joe" Gibbs. Not a player so he can't be considered, but he is clearly the colossus astride the last 50 years of DC sports history. He was the Redskins' glory days - way more than someone like Monk or Green who, great as he was, wasn't even around for the first Super Bowl.

I also think this conversation might be selling Ovie a little short. He is an all-time great playing near the very peak of his prime. I find him mesmerizing. Even so, chances are very slim I'll be staying up to watch him play in San Jose tonight.

As a longtime refugee to Baltimore, it's pretty amazing what a run of all-timers Charm City has had. The 50-year cutoff probably knocks Unitas off the list since he was well past his peak by then. But Ray Lewis is an obvious choice, with Ogden comparing favorably to any Redskin during that time (though he left before the Ravens' 2nd title) and Ed Reed just a notch behind (he arrived after the Ravens' first championship). And then you've got Brooks Robinson, Cal Ripken, and - in my opinion an even greater Oriole than both of them - Jim Palmer, only pitcher ever to win a World Series game in 3 decades (66, numerous in the 70s, and 83). Pretty tough competition when Eddie Murray and Frank Robinson (who won the Triple Crown in 66 but wasn't an Oriole for that long) aren't even in the conversation. Plus Michael Phelps is the greatest Olympian of all time, though I know we're talking team sports.

With all that great history, you'd think Baltimorons would be a little less insecure.

 

[TobiasFunke]

This discussion helps reinforce the greatness of Coach "Joe" Gibbs. Not a player so he can't be considered, but he is clearly the colossus astride the last 50 years of DC sports history. He was the Redskins' glory days - way more than someone like Monk or Green who, great as he was, wasn't even around for the first Super Bowl.

I also think this conversation might be selling Ovie a little short. He is an all-time great playing near the very peak of his prime. I find him mesmerizing. Even so, chances are very slim I'll be staying up to watch him play in San Jose tonight.

As a longtime refugee to Baltimore, it's pretty amazing what a run of all-timers Charm City has had. The 50-year cutoff probably knocks Unitas off the list since he was well past his peak by then. But Ray Lewis is an obvious choice, with Ogden comparing favorably to any Redskin during that time (though he left before the Ravens' 2nd title) and Ed Reed just a notch behind (he arrived after the Ravens' first championship). And then you've got Brooks Robinson, Cal Ripken, and - in my opinion an even greater Oriole than both of them - Jim Palmer, only pitcher ever to win a World Series game in 3 decades (66, numerous in the 70s, and 83). Pretty tough competition when Eddie Murray and Frank Robinson (who won the Triple Crown in 66 but wasn't an Oriole for that long) aren't even in the conversation. Plus Michael Phelps is the greatest Olympian of all time, though I know we're talking team sports.

With all that great history, you'd think Baltimorons would be a little less insecure.

Is this true? Like I said before not really in my wheelhouse, but I've always gotten the impression that hockey types thought his MVPs weren't justified because he's just a scorer and not really a two way player or someone who makes his team better- basically the hockey equivalent of Carmelo Anthony, who isn't gonna end up on any all-time lists. Maybe that's just all the Canadians hating on the Russian guy, though?

 

[The_Man]

He's a 3-time MVP - only guys to win it more are Gretzky, Howe, and Eddie Shore, who played in the 30s.

If he leads the NHL in goals this year, he'll join the 4 guys who have done that at least 5 times - Gretzky, Howe, Bobby Hull and Phil Esposito.

I think he should be a serious MVP candidate this year, actually - he certainly looked to me like the best player in the NHL during January. Though he doesn't seem to be getting that kind of talk.

Put it this way, if he were a 3-time MVP of the National League, looking to lead the league in Home Runs for the 5th time in his career, there wouldn't be any discussion about how great he is. I don't get why so many people undervalue what he's done.

 

[tangfoot]

I don't get why so many people undervalue what he's done.

How many playoff series has he won?

 

[TobiasFunke]

I don't get why so many people undervalue what he's done.

How many playoff series has he won?

Zero, just like every other hockey player in NHL history. It would be super hard to win 1 vs 20.

This isn't even a sports thread, its a local/travel thread where we sometimes wallow in our shared misery. What say you take it somewhere else?

 

[The_Man]

I don't get why so many people undervalue what he's done.

How many playoff series has he won?

He's won 3.

But you make a good point - all five of the 7-game series that the Caps have lost during his career are conclusively 100% Ovechkin's fault.

 

[dgreen]

This discussion helps reinforce the greatness of Coach "Joe" Gibbs. Not a player so he can't be considered, but he is clearly the colossus astride the last 50 years of DC sports history. He was the Redskins' glory days - way more than someone like Monk or Green who, great as he was, wasn't even around for the first Super Bowl.

I also think this conversation might be selling Ovie a little short. He is an all-time great playing near the very peak of his prime. I find him mesmerizing. Even so, chances are very slim I'll be staying up to watch him play in San Jose tonight.

As a longtime refugee to Baltimore, it's pretty amazing what a run of all-timers Charm City has had. The 50-year cutoff probably knocks Unitas off the list since he was well past his peak by then. But Ray Lewis is an obvious choice, with Ogden comparing favorably to any Redskin during that time (though he left before the Ravens' 2nd title) and Ed Reed just a notch behind (he arrived after the Ravens' first championship). And then you've got Brooks Robinson, Cal Ripken, and - in my opinion an even greater Oriole than both of them - Jim Palmer, only pitcher ever to win a World Series game in 3 decades (66, numerous in the 70s, and 83). Pretty tough competition when Eddie Murray and Frank Robinson (who won the Triple Crown in 66 but wasn't an Oriole for that long) aren't even in the conversation. Plus Michael Phelps is the greatest Olympian of all time, though I know we're talking team sports.

With all that great history, you'd think Baltimorons would be a little less insecure.

Is this true? Like I said before not really in my wheelhouse, but I've always gotten the impression that hockey types thought his MVPs weren't justified because he's just a scorer and not really a two way player or someone who makes his team better- basically the hockey equivalent of Carmelo Anthony, who isn't gonna end up on any all-time lists. Maybe that's just all the Canadians hating on the Russian guy, though?

Early in their careers, there was a real debate between Crosby and Ovechkin. As much as it pains me to say it, Crosby (when healthy) put an end to that discussion a few years ago. And, really, Ovechkin's multi-season funk helped put an end to that discussion. But, for a time, one could argue that Ovechkin was the best player in the world. When was the last time DC had that; a player who was arguably the best in the world?

His defense has never been very good. He's improved some thing season under Trotz and seems to approach things with a slightly different attitude, but still nothing to write home about. The thing is, early in his career, his offensive production made his defense fairly irrelevant. He may have been bad at defense, but he was so good at offense that he still presented a huge advantage to his team. Like I said, he hit a big time funk for a couple seasons and that's when people really started to blast his defense and pick apart everything. If you're not scoring 60 goals, then your defense starts to matter a little more. Now he's back up in the 50 goal range and has slightly improved his defense, making him a top player again.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Leaving aside artificial boundaries.........Overall, it's Ray Leonard and it's not even close, IMO. Dude was one of the most famous people in the world. Roots are here, and home base (obstensibly) was here while he was on top.

I see the Ovi argument, but I betcha even now - poll random people at a gas station in DMV and more would know who Leonard is than they would Ovi.

As for college hoops, whoever said Ewing by a mile is also off. Len Bias is damned close AND has the roots.