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The Patriots are built for January (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Finless
- Start date
and in February they will be watching the Steelers go back to back
Finless
Footballguy
Lets bet cash on who makes it further this season? Whaddya say, Skip?
two_dollars
Footballguy
Yes, the Pats with Brady at the helm are better than they were last year.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
DefenseEdge: SteelersSpecial TeamsEdge: PushQBEdge: PatsWR1Edge: PatsWR2Edge: PatsCoachingEdge: PatsOlineEdge: PatsRunning GameEdge: pushThe central question is how good (or not good) the Pats defense will be this year.Despite being a huge pats homer, I recognize the steelers are one of the best teams in the league, not to mention defending champs.Having said that, I doubt realistic steelers fans have the perspective that their team should be favored over NE right now.
Boltz Boy
Footballguy
Hmmm, usually your posts are right on, but I think the homerism is shining through here. First, I don't see how the Running Game is considered a push. Fred Taylor in the Jacksonville offense is possibly a push, but the Pats just don't run that much (they don't need to) in their offense. Their running game, while it has some talent and nice role players, is not going to come close to the Steelers. Heck, I think it isn't one of the top two in the East (Dolphins & Jets.)Secondly, and this seems a bit more glaring to me, is how easy it is to manipulate a comparison. Let me give you an example with the same two teams:Special Teams: pushOffense: PatsCoach: PatsDLine: pushLBs: SteelersSS: SteelersFS: SteelersCBs: SteelersIn closing, this is all moot since this is the Chargers' year.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
people discount how effective the patriots running game is. last year's squad finished 6th in yards with 4.4 ypc, 21 TDs. this year's squad has maroney back from injury and some guy named fred taylor and some guy named tom brady replacing matt cassel at qb. pittsburgh finished 23rd in yards with 3.7 ypc, 16 TDs.san diego 21st in yards with 4.1 ypc, 13 TDs.in short, I COULD HAVE taken the position that NE had the edge in rushing attack, but I called it a push.as for the bolts, the only glaring weakness that have right now, in my opinion, is Head Coach. everything else is solid.Hmmm, usually your posts are right on, but I think the homerism is shining through here. First, I don't see how the Running Game is considered a push. Fred Taylor in the Jacksonville offense is possibly a push, but the Pats just don't run that much (they don't need to) in their offense. Their running game, while it has some talent and nice role players, is not going to come close to the Steelers. Heck, I think it isn't one of the top two in the East (Dolphins & Jets.)Secondly, and this seems a bit more glaring to me, is how easy it is to manipulate a comparison. Let me give you an example with the same two teams:Special Teams: pushOffense: PatsCoach: PatsDLine: pushLBs: SteelersSS: SteelersFS: SteelersCBs: SteelersIn closing, this is all moot since this is the Chargers' year.
jurb26
Footballguy
I'm a huge Steeler fan and I'd give anything to have the Pats running game rathe than ours.Hmmm, usually your posts are right on, but I think the homerism is shining through here. First, I don't see how the Running Game is considered a push. Fred Taylor in the Jacksonville offense is possibly a push, but the Pats just don't run that much (they don't need to) in their offense. Their running game, while it has some talent and nice role players, is not going to come close to the Steelers. Heck, I think it isn't one of the top two in the East (Dolphins & Jets.)Secondly, and this seems a bit more glaring to me, is how easy it is to manipulate a comparison. Let me give you an example with the same two teams:Special Teams: pushOffense: PatsCoach: PatsDLine: pushLBs: SteelersSS: SteelersFS: SteelersCBs: SteelersIn closing, this is all moot since this is the Chargers' year.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Too bad Tom Brady is built for golf.
ivnabru
Footballguy
I'd give the DLine to the Pats personally. Wilfork is one of the best DTs in the game, Brace/Wright should be solid backing up Wilfork. Seymour/Warren/Burgess/Green are an above average group at DE. The Steelers also have an above average group with Smith/Keisel/Hampton/Kirshke. But if you were to ask me the best 2 players on either defensive line I'd say Wilfork and Seymour (when healthy).There's a reason the Pats are almost always one of the top 3 or 4 teams in Points Allowed, it helps they have an efficient offense but you can't keep teams from scoring with a bad defense. Over the last 6 years the Pats have had a top 5 defense in PA 4 times and a top 10 once more. During that time the Steelers have been top 5 in PA 4 times and top 15 the other two. Virtually identical lately. I'd give Pitt the defensive edge, but not as major as your rankings make it out to be.Hmmm, usually your posts are right on, but I think the homerism is shining through here. First, I don't see how the Running Game is considered a push. Fred Taylor in the Jacksonville offense is possibly a push, but the Pats just don't run that much (they don't need to) in their offense. Their running game, while it has some talent and nice role players, is not going to come close to the Steelers. Heck, I think it isn't one of the top two in the East (Dolphins & Jets.)Secondly, and this seems a bit more glaring to me, is how easy it is to manipulate a comparison. Let me give you an example with the same two teams:Special Teams: pushOffense: PatsCoach: PatsDLine: pushLBs: SteelersSS: SteelersFS: SteelersCBs: SteelersIn closing, this is all moot since this is the Chargers' year.
I'll give you the rest of your rankings.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
Right now all they've got to worry about is Buffalo in week 1 -- you can all relax on the January stuff.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Maroney looked better than Taylor.
The only way the Pats will really be successful running the ball is with their usual draws and delayed handoffs against defenses giving total respect to Brady. Fred Taylor is washed up and Maroney is one step away from his next injury and isn't a game breaker to begin with. To say they're built for January when they haven't been able to cash in during the playoffs since 2004 seems like a stretch as well.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Yep. The Patriots have no flaws and clearly the rest of the league has no chance. No point in playing the games -- just give 'em the Lombardi now. While we're at it let's go back and give them the Lombardis for 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008 since they were the preseason favorite those years as well.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Do you really think a coach as savvy as Bill Belichick is gonna show his hand in meaningless preseason games? Of course not. The Brady to Moss hook-ups are just reminding the rest of the league that they still need to be terrified of those two, but you can bet they have tons of new wrinkles that we will see once the games count, especially considering the new weapons they have on offense.
daveR
Footballguy
Yeah. That's kinda what I was getting at. Fred Taylor & Joey Galloway didn't seem to fit. Maybe they'd have looked smoother with Welker in there...
Finless
Footballguy
Any of you Steelers fans running you mouths I'll take action. Steelers won by default. Great defense but the rest of that team is very unspectacular. I don't want to turn this into a Steelers vs Patriots thread but you guys just keep showing up.
Whenever I find myself trying to reason with unreasonable fans about who the better team is I generally just bring vegas into the conversation. The handicappers in vegas don't play favorites and aren't in the business of giving away free money. They obviously feel The Patriots are not only built for January but February as well
Money line
Patriots +350
Steelers +600
Odds
Patriots 7/2
Pittsburgh 19/2
Whenever I find myself trying to reason with unreasonable fans about who the better team is I generally just bring vegas into the conversation. The handicappers in vegas don't play favorites and aren't in the business of giving away free money. They obviously feel The Patriots are not only built for January but February as well
Money line
Patriots +350
Steelers +600
Odds
Patriots 7/2
Pittsburgh 19/2
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
:IBTL:
Vegas bases their odds on what teams they think people are most likely to bet on, not necessarily on who the best team is. Same thing with point spreads. Look at the Broncos/Packers Super Bowl. GB was favored by 12 1/2 points. No one in their right mind thought the Packers were 12 1/2 points better than the Broncos, but Denver's bad Super Bowl history plus the AFC's futility in recent Super Bowls made for a high point spread, because they knew bettors would be all over the NFC team who just happened to be the defending champs.
Besides, the Patriots were either the odds on favorite or second at worst to win it all going into the season the last four seasons...how did that work out for them?
I am not saying they will not win it all, and I think they will be better than the Steelers if Brady stays healthy, but using Vegas as your argument is very weak.
Vegas bases their odds on what teams they think people are most likely to bet on, not necessarily on who the best team is. Same thing with point spreads. Look at the Broncos/Packers Super Bowl. GB was favored by 12 1/2 points. No one in their right mind thought the Packers were 12 1/2 points better than the Broncos, but Denver's bad Super Bowl history plus the AFC's futility in recent Super Bowls made for a high point spread, because they knew bettors would be all over the NFC team who just happened to be the defending champs.
Besides, the Patriots were either the odds on favorite or second at worst to win it all going into the season the last four seasons...how did that work out for them?
I am not saying they will not win it all, and I think they will be better than the Steelers if Brady stays healthy, but using Vegas as your argument is very weak.
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Ned
Footballguy
Finless
Footballguy
I disagree. I'm not talking point spreads here, chief. I showed odds and a money line. Should I continue? Or are you suggesting Vegas doesn't view the Patriots as the favorite? These are futures. It's not the same as trying to distribute money evenly with two teams.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
It doesn't matter what you, me, or Vegas thinks. As the Ghost pointed out Vegas had the Patriots the favorites the past four seasons. So much can happen over the course of the season ... how about we wait until at least week 1 before we award the Patriots the trophy?I disagree. I'm not talking point spreads here, chief. I showed odds and a money line. Should I continue? Or are you suggesting Vegas doesn't view the Patriots as the favorite? These are futures. It's not the same as trying to distribute money evenly with two teams.Vegas bases their odds on what teams they think people are most likely to bet on, not necessarily on who the best team is. Same thing with point spreads. Look at the Broncos/Packers Super Bowl. GB was favored by 12 1/2 points. No one in their right mind thought the Packers were 12 1/2 points better than the Broncos, but Denver's bad Super Bowl history plus the AFC's futility in recent Super Bowls made for a high point spread, because they knew bettors would be all over the NFC team who just happened to be the defending champs. Besides, the Patriots were either the odds on favorite or second at worst to win it all going into the season the last four seasons...how did that work out for them? I am not saying they will not win it all, and I think they will be better than the Steelers if Brady stays healthy, but using Vegas as your argument is very weak.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Vegas sets the favorite as the team most likely get the most action, which is why the odds are lower; so Vegas doesn't get killed if it wins. A 2 to 1 winner is obviously not going to net as big a loss for Vegas as a 50 to 1 team winning the Super Bowl, and since the Patriots have been one of the top teams in the NFL almost every year for the last eight, it goes without saying that they will always be one of the top two or three favorites, at worst, so long as Belichick is in charge and Brady is healthy. Isn't this Gambling 101?
And like I said, the Patriots were a huge favorite the last four years, and they didn't win the championship in any of those seasons.
Then again, you do so many fishing trips, some of them could go either way.
And like I said, the Patriots were a huge favorite the last four years, and they didn't win the championship in any of those seasons.
Then again, you do so many fishing trips, some of them could go either way.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Gimme a break. You don't luck into an NFL championship.'and it wasn't Steelers fans that started this thread...
Finless
Footballguy
Link to fishing trips? I know you're not going to go there. My thread was just stating I like the way this team is looking. That's all. I wasn't handing them the Lombardi...not yet at least. And for the record I am aware of when they won their last Super Bowl. This teams got a handful of bruising backs just waiting to be unleashed in the colds of winter. I am a bit concerned about the shoulder though. Haynesworth did his best to drive him into the earth.
fatness
Footballguy
Defensive linemen do that. It's not flag football.
two_dollars
Footballguy
They were pretty "unstoppable" in 2007 too, but they couldn't win when it counted then either.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Dude, virtually every thread you create and post you make is a fishing trip. The Steelers, Eagles, Redskins, Packers, Chargers and a half dozen other teams besides the Pats are more than capable of winning the superbowl this year. While we share a view that the Pats are favored based on information today, I for one am not so much a homer that I'll disrespect the Steelers or any other capable team out there.Now we all know that the Jets, Bills and Dolphins will suck, but that's another matter. 
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Built for September.
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
Stinger Ray
Footballguy
Why did you bump this very old thread?'Raider Nation said:
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
2009... 2012.Same story. The window has CLOSED.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Perhaps we haven't met.
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
You have.
ClosING. Not closed yet. They've still got two or three more years left.2009... 2012.Same story. The window has CLOSED.
Boston
Footballguy
The window is very much open...they are still one of the top teams in the NFL and have a ton of young players like Hightower, Jones, Gronk, Hernandez, Solder, Ridley and Dennard that should still be getting better...that being said until BB realizes that for the Pats to get over the hump they need a big-time pass rush they will continue to be a team that falls just short of winning a title...
Yep, his hobby is finding old threads and bumping them.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
What else can one do when your team is out of playoff contention by the third pre-season game every year?
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
that's meanbut you can see how raiders fans would still hold a grudge after the pats took their milk money, and they proceeded to fold up and circle the bowl over the next 10 yrs, while the pats were in the playoffs pretty much every year.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Now, this would be January of which year again?
