Sadly, this one was easy to see it would turn into the "I don't have anything to do with those people way back then and can't vote for them" stuff. It is what it is.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
The racist history of the Democratic Party (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
sho nuff
Footballguy
Its an interesting topic...though, IMO, it all comes down to the racist history of this country. So there are racists in every party's past. This country's past (and that of the world really) is pretty full of some evil crap and racist crap.
I think its more productive to look at now...where are we as a country now...
Last edited by a moderator:
Sure. That's just not what he asked in the OP. I get it. All threads here eventually turn mostly to this. It's life.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
I get that...I think its hard to discuss one party over the other in such an instance...in many cases it also wasn't the party that was racist...but an individual on some things. Not all things are party driven. I think a decent topic would be the overall racism of this country...where we were, where we are...how do we learn from it and keep it a part of history to learn about and be better...without memorializing/celebrating some of it. I think that is a conversation that is needed with some level headed talk from real leaders these days.Sure. That's just not what he asked in the OP. I get it. All threads here eventually turn mostly to this. It's life.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Well, you/we tried. I knew right away when @Leroy Hoard popped in here and in the 3rd post started to derail the thread. I didn't think it would last long but it was worth the effort.
IMO, they aren't interested in racism in the Democratic Party as it hits too close to home. Just better to point to the other side and accuse them and ignore actual history.
I commend you, Tim.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
I was curious where this post was going. For me racism is racism. It was/is present everywhere and in all political parties. So what point is trying to be made here? Are people really arguing that the Democratic Party does not have a racist past(and present)?
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Last edited by a moderator:
sho nuff
Footballguy
Last edited by a moderator:
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Nobody is arguing that. Mostly it's just a bullet point if people bring up the GOP or Trump to deflect back and for some reason it's a "gotcha" that the Democratic Party had this history.PinkydaPimp said:
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Shouldn't we just get rid of the political part? US history has a ton of racism. The further back you go the higher percentage of the population that felt that way or took part in the behavior.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Everyone still playing "sides" because the tribe they belong to today has history they don't like. Why don't you guys start your own thread and let @timschochetcontinue with his history lesson in this one? If you don't like the history just stay out of here. It's really not that difficult.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Let's just be clear here: Not only DID they have this history, they still have it. It hasn't gone away.
whoknew
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Last edited by a moderator:
crackattack
Footballguy
This was a good thread by Tim. Unfortunately the same couple of people derailed it. I'd like to see @timschochet continue it.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
That's what this thread was about. It supposed to be about history - from the past up thru to the present day.
Maybe it wasn't clear to you?
BladeRunner
Footballguy
I don't blame Tim. After Leroy, OrtonToOlsen, muddaisy and a couple others immediately showed up and tried to take it over and derail it.
I kind of get it - the truth is hard to confront for some people so just better to try and pretend it was "the other guy" who was racist and try to rewrite history.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
whoknew
Footballguy
Every thread in this forum has mud slinging back and forth. You know that better than anyone. I mean - look at your post.
If Tim can't handle mud slinging going on around his discussion - well then he's probably not cut out for the forum. If he really wants to have the discussion, he should just ignore the comments he doesn't think are applicable and keep the discussion going.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
whoknew
Footballguy
BladeRunner
Footballguy
I disagree with your assessment, but that's okay. I'm the type of guy that can accept that people disagree.
If I do sling mud, it's only in response to a mudslinging post, but that's few and far between IMO.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Then perhaps you can add to the topic and show us and back it up what is the present racism in the party?
timschochet
Footballguy
If I have time today I’ll continue. But it’s a slow process.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
It's a thread about the Democratic party not the other party like a few guys instantly wanted to make it.
And you can tell who is triggered and trolling because they even admitted what they thought was a more important discussion, were asked to start a thread if it was really that important, and they haven't done so. They are just going to continue arguing history as if it doesn't exist. You know because gotta defend the current tribe.
And every thread does not HAVE to have mud slinging either. If it does, then why in the hell does @Joe Bryant even have the forum? Are people here not capable of discussing a single topic without hurling insults and whataboutisms towards the other tribe?
crackattack
Footballguy
This thread is about the racist history of the DEMOCRAT party. Anyone mentioning but but the Republican party today is derailing the thread. Start a thread about the racist history of the Republican party. Or a thread about the present state of racism in the Republican party. Not hard to figure out.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
It is incredible how much self awareness you lack. I never commented once to you and you come in with the name calling.
Other people disagree with and you tell them the truth hurts or that other classic you used to use "get outta here with that"
Until this post I had 3 posts in the entire thread and not one was trying to derail it. You just lump me with anything you associate as bad because you don't like me. Definitely sounds like a person that can agree to disagree with others and has no bias.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
First off, my apologies. I lumped you in when I shouldn't have.
Secondly, I don't hate you or not like you. You following me around giving me the laughing emoji's for every single on of my posts makes me thing you're the one who doesn't like me. We can can get along, you and I.
How is what you bolded NOT true? That is EXACTLY what happened in this thread from other posters (not you). They didn't want to confront the past and present history of the Demcorat Party and started derailing the thread.
Last edited by a moderator:
msudaisy26
Footballguy
This isn't the first time you have incorrectly judged me or others and it won't be the last.
You aren't hear to learn or have a discussion you come in guns blazing just because you want to spike the football if you are right and tell people they are "blinded by hatred" or "being corrupted by the media" etc when they disagree with you or prove you wrong. So you get those emojis because some of the stuff you post I find hilariously bad, and others I find extremely sad another person would think or say the things you say.
I also don't buy your apology one bit. IMO you posted it because you don't want a timeout and you probably thought you were being clever.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Well, so much for civility.
I wasn't worried about a time out one bit - you're assuming A LOT here. Nothing I posted would have given me a time out.
Also, I am here to learn. You can make all the assumptions you want, but they are just that - assumptions (and wrong ones at that). I'm sorry you feel the way you do but you're incorrect on all counts in your post other than me lumping you in with the others who tried to derail this thread.
Sounds like you're the one who's dug in. That's a shame, because I think we could have some good conversations.
And you've yet to answer my question I posted to you. I'm assuming you can't so you posted what you posted as a deflection? I don't know.
Last edited by a moderator:
msudaisy26
Footballguy
We tried before and it always ends the same way when I disagree with you. (I stated them above)
This is why I said you lack self awareness. You might think you are having a good civil conversation, but you aren't. You call names, you can't agree to disagree and when it happens you completely dismiss the way someone else thinks.
Not clogging the thread anymore.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
If it ends bad, then that's on both of us. It takes two to tango.
We can try again. I'm willing to give it another shot. What say you? Can we do this?
timschochet
Footballguy
OK let’s try again.
Woodrow, continued.
Now I must backtrack. In order to explain the long term effects of Woodrow Wilson’s racism for both the Democratic Party and the nation, I need to discuss the Lost Cause movement. This has bearing on what’s happening today, because it has a lot to do with the Confederate statues being discussed currently.
Lost Cause
The Lost Cause movement was originated by Jefferson Davis and other Confederate leaders shortly after the Civil War, but though it was popular in Southern states, it didn’t become well known or popular throughout the nation until the Presidency of Woodrow Wilson. There were several reasons for this:
1. The economic boom created by the international tensions leading to World War I (from about 1910-20), along with the new technology of mass automobiles, led to many more jobs in the industrial north than the population there could fulfill.
2. This led to the Great Migration: blacks picking up and moving their families from the southern states where most of them had always lived to the North: Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, New York.
3. The Great Migration threatened the southern economy: first because the sudden scarcity of black farm and plantation workers drove up wages, and second because the growing economic power of blacks suddenly created new demands for civil rights: the right to vote, be treated as equal in schooling and housing, an end to segregation.
In order to deal with these threats, the old “Lost Cause” movement was successfully revived as a means to permanently establish white superiority. I’ll try to explain how this worked in my next post.
Woodrow, continued.
Now I must backtrack. In order to explain the long term effects of Woodrow Wilson’s racism for both the Democratic Party and the nation, I need to discuss the Lost Cause movement. This has bearing on what’s happening today, because it has a lot to do with the Confederate statues being discussed currently.
Lost Cause
The Lost Cause movement was originated by Jefferson Davis and other Confederate leaders shortly after the Civil War, but though it was popular in Southern states, it didn’t become well known or popular throughout the nation until the Presidency of Woodrow Wilson. There were several reasons for this:
1. The economic boom created by the international tensions leading to World War I (from about 1910-20), along with the new technology of mass automobiles, led to many more jobs in the industrial north than the population there could fulfill.
2. This led to the Great Migration: blacks picking up and moving their families from the southern states where most of them had always lived to the North: Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, New York.
3. The Great Migration threatened the southern economy: first because the sudden scarcity of black farm and plantation workers drove up wages, and second because the growing economic power of blacks suddenly created new demands for civil rights: the right to vote, be treated as equal in schooling and housing, an end to segregation.
In order to deal with these threats, the old “Lost Cause” movement was successfully revived as a means to permanently establish white superiority. I’ll try to explain how this worked in my next post.
Boston
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
LOL @ anyone here scaring Tim away from posting. The man has 145,000 posts FYI.
timschochet
Footballguy
Lost Cause, cont
”Lost Cause” is a phrase that implies the Confederacy fought the good fight and lost. It’s origins actually go back to Walter Scott, the author of Ivanhoe, whose stories of chivalric knights intrigued southerners even before the Civil War. It was also influenced, romantically, by Alfred Tennyson’s poem “The Charge of the Light Brigade” which was transposed into Pickett’s charge at the Battle of Gettysburg.
I’m going to list the main points of the Lost Cause:
1. The Civil War was not fought because of slavery; it was fought because the federal government attempted to destroy the individual freedom of the southern states.
2. The South lost the Civil War due to overwhelming odds, despite the fact that all the heroes were in the southern side (notably Lee, Jackson, Stuart, but NOT Longstreet. Longstreet was a hero too but after the war he became a Republican and a promoter of black rights, at which point it was suddenly discovered that he was a traitor who lost the Battle of Gettysburg.)
3. At the end of the war villainous Yankees led by Sherman committed war crimes, starved the southern people, raped and pillaged, etc.
4. After the war, Northern Carpetbaggers gave the vote to ignorant blacks in order to help them, the carpetbaggers, take over. These cruel Yankees cared nothing for blacks who had been happy on the plantations.
There’s a whole lot more but this was the gist. As I wrote, prior to World War I it was a fringe movement. Then under Woodrow Wilson and one of his best friends, a Hollywood pioneer named DW Griffith it exploded...
”Lost Cause” is a phrase that implies the Confederacy fought the good fight and lost. It’s origins actually go back to Walter Scott, the author of Ivanhoe, whose stories of chivalric knights intrigued southerners even before the Civil War. It was also influenced, romantically, by Alfred Tennyson’s poem “The Charge of the Light Brigade” which was transposed into Pickett’s charge at the Battle of Gettysburg.
I’m going to list the main points of the Lost Cause:
1. The Civil War was not fought because of slavery; it was fought because the federal government attempted to destroy the individual freedom of the southern states.
2. The South lost the Civil War due to overwhelming odds, despite the fact that all the heroes were in the southern side (notably Lee, Jackson, Stuart, but NOT Longstreet. Longstreet was a hero too but after the war he became a Republican and a promoter of black rights, at which point it was suddenly discovered that he was a traitor who lost the Battle of Gettysburg.)
3. At the end of the war villainous Yankees led by Sherman committed war crimes, starved the southern people, raped and pillaged, etc.
4. After the war, Northern Carpetbaggers gave the vote to ignorant blacks in order to help them, the carpetbaggers, take over. These cruel Yankees cared nothing for blacks who had been happy on the plantations.
There’s a whole lot more but this was the gist. As I wrote, prior to World War I it was a fringe movement. Then under Woodrow Wilson and one of his best friends, a Hollywood pioneer named DW Griffith it exploded...
msudaisy26
Footballguy
This part always fascinates me. They literally taught this to kids in school and it was text books until the 1940's if I remember correctly.
timschochet
Footballguy
It’s displayed in the beginning of Donald Trump’s favorite movie, Gone With the Wind. A group of blacks at the start of sunset from a distance happily tell each other:
“Its quitting time!”
“Who say it’s quitting time?”
“I say it’s quitting time!”
https://youtu.be/8PjRsfPCo98
Notice the fantasy here: there’s no white overseer. The blacks casually decide when they’re going to stop working. They’re happy content slaves! And this continues throughout the film, especially in the second half, when, having been set free, they continue to be devoted to their white former masters.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
The "happy slave belief" has been voiced in this board's illustrious past as well.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
You're like a Michael Moore documentary - stitch together two unrelated things together and say "see! I told you!" to push a false narrative. But you did get the likes you were so hungry for, I guess. Good job?
It's no stretch to say you are part of the problem with these forums.
It's no stretch to say you are part of the problem with these forums.
Last edited by a moderator:
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I watched a documentary on the United Daughters of the Confederate. It was incredible the influence these women had despite not even having the right to vote. They basically guided a generation into believing slavery was a good thing.
timschochet
Footballguy
The Lost Cause, Continued
The movement was deliberate and it proceeded in a variety of ways:
1. Director DW Griffith made Birth of a Nation, which following its promotion by Woodrow Wilson in the White House became the most popular movie in the country. The film contains every element of the Lost Cause and glorifies the creation of the Ku Klux Klan as a means to bring honor back to America.
2. In conjunction with the film, the KKK began to rapidly expand membership. It’s largest numbers were surprisingly not in the South but in the northern states that were the main targets of the Great Migration: Michigan, Indiana, Illinois. In Detroit, the most prominent public figure for this movement was baseball star Ty Cobb, born in Georgia. All of the KKK members were Democrat; it was a movement at that time within the Democratic Party.
3. Several prominent historians, including the great Douglas Southall Freeman, began to compose narrative works of history that retold the story of the Civil War in a “Lost Cause” emphasis.
4. All over the south Confederate statues began to be created and placed in town squares- also the Confederate battle flag was glorified as well as the song “Dixie”. These actions were done not so much to revere the history but to declare a permanent state of white southern superiority.
5. Lynchings exploded all over the south. Again these were planned and performed deliberately to scare blacks from either migrating north or from attempting to claim any civil rights.
All of these actions were endorsed and approved of by Woodrow Wilson and the leadership of the Democratic Party.
The movement was deliberate and it proceeded in a variety of ways:
1. Director DW Griffith made Birth of a Nation, which following its promotion by Woodrow Wilson in the White House became the most popular movie in the country. The film contains every element of the Lost Cause and glorifies the creation of the Ku Klux Klan as a means to bring honor back to America.
2. In conjunction with the film, the KKK began to rapidly expand membership. It’s largest numbers were surprisingly not in the South but in the northern states that were the main targets of the Great Migration: Michigan, Indiana, Illinois. In Detroit, the most prominent public figure for this movement was baseball star Ty Cobb, born in Georgia. All of the KKK members were Democrat; it was a movement at that time within the Democratic Party.
3. Several prominent historians, including the great Douglas Southall Freeman, began to compose narrative works of history that retold the story of the Civil War in a “Lost Cause” emphasis.
4. All over the south Confederate statues began to be created and placed in town squares- also the Confederate battle flag was glorified as well as the song “Dixie”. These actions were done not so much to revere the history but to declare a permanent state of white southern superiority.
5. Lynchings exploded all over the south. Again these were planned and performed deliberately to scare blacks from either migrating north or from attempting to claim any civil rights.
All of these actions were endorsed and approved of by Woodrow Wilson and the leadership of the Democratic Party.
whoknew
Footballguy
You sure about Cobb? I thought the claims about him being racist were incorrect. Or at least exaggerated.
timschochet
Footballguy
OK so this is a hotly debated issue, and Cobb’s family has made great efforts to refute some of the accusations. It’s true that later in life Cobb did and said some good things that belied his earlier image, (much like Nathan Bedford Forrest did at the end of his life), and that complicates the subject somewhat.
But there is no question that at the time that I refer to, the Wilson years, Cobb was prominent in Detroit as a promoter of the KKK and white superiority. That’s fairly well documented.
quick-hands
Footballguy
Similar threads
