https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10455557/The-speed-camera-nightmare-thats-coming-America.html
You lead foots are gonna have to change your game.
You lead foots are gonna have to change your game.
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The speeding camera nightmare that is coming to America (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ekbeats
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Juxtatarot
Footballguy
glvsav37
Footballguy
I live in NY where red light cameras are very popular. I've gotten a few but overall it made me more aware of them. Don't like them, but I guess worked somewhat.
That said, speed camera's might be a lot more to get use to. They better ramp up production of those self-driving cars so I can just jump in, take a nap and let the car worry about the speed cameras.
That said, speed camera's might be a lot more to get use to. They better ramp up production of those self-driving cars so I can just jump in, take a nap and let the car worry about the speed cameras.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Red light cameras should exist in more cities. This behavior is rampant in Chicago, for example, and I’d love to see every d-bag who runs red lights for fun get slammed with fines. Super dangerous.
The speeding issue will go away as insurance costs better adjust to individual driver behaviors, from telematics devices. This is happening - it will happen - with others without Mayor Pete and speed cameras.
glvsav37
Footballguy
IDK about chicago, but we don't have many red light runners here. The RL tickets I have gotten were IMO ticky-tack infractions where turning right on red is allowed but technically you need to stop for a 3-second count. The one that sticks out to me is the intersection heading to the rink we play at. Its a fully curved turn, not a hard right one, that goes into its own lane on the crossing road. At night (when traffic is low and mainly when I am there) I can see for about a mile down the road for any traffic coming at me...yet I need to wait 3 seconds.
Again, laws are laws, and now I've been conditioned to the the stop and count thing, but it just seems like a money grab for an intersection like that.
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FairWarning
Footballguy
I think they are all around Chicago, don’t know how much over before you get a ticket though.
There are alot of red light cameras in Florida. A violation leads to a civil fine of $158, which won't affect your driving record. They're unpopular, but I believe they've withstood legal challenges.
Regarding speeding cameras and their effectiveness, here's a Cochrane Review of 28 studies via Wikipedia from 2010:
>>The 2010 Cochrane Review of speed cameras for the prevention of road traffic injuries and deaths[1] reported that all 28 studies accepted by the authors found the effect of speed cameras to be a reduction in all crashes, injury crashes, and death or severe injury crashes. "Twenty eight studies measured the effect on crashes. All 28 studies found a lower number of crashes in the speed camera areas after implementation of the program. In the vicinity of camera sites, the reductions ranged from 8% to 49% for all crashes, with reductions for most studies in the 14% to 25% range. For injury crashes the decrease ranged between 8% to 50% and for crashes resulting in fatalities or serious injuries the reductions were in the range of 11% to 44%. Effects over wider areas showed reductions for all crashes ranging from 9% to 35%, with most studies reporting reductions in the 11% to 27% range. For crashes resulting in death or serious injury reductions ranged from 17% to 58%, with most studies reporting this result in the 30% to 40% reduction range. The studies of longer duration showed that these positive trends were either maintained or improved with time. Nevertheless, the authors conceded that the magnitude of the benefit from speed cameras "is currently not deducible" due to limitations in the methodological rigor of many of the 28 studies cited, and recommended that "more studies of a scientifically rigorous and homogenous nature are necessary, to provide the answer to the magnitude of effect."
The 2010 report, "The Effectiveness of Speed Cameras A review of evidence",[31] by Richard Allsop concludes "The findings of this review for the RAC Foundation, though reached independently, are essentially consistent with the Cochrane Review conclusions. They are also broadly consistent with the findings of a meta-analysis reported in the respected Handbook of Road Safety Measures, of 16 studies, not including the four-year evaluation report, of the effects of fixed cameras on numbers of collisions and casualties."<<
Regarding speeding cameras and their effectiveness, here's a Cochrane Review of 28 studies via Wikipedia from 2010:
>>The 2010 Cochrane Review of speed cameras for the prevention of road traffic injuries and deaths[1] reported that all 28 studies accepted by the authors found the effect of speed cameras to be a reduction in all crashes, injury crashes, and death or severe injury crashes. "Twenty eight studies measured the effect on crashes. All 28 studies found a lower number of crashes in the speed camera areas after implementation of the program. In the vicinity of camera sites, the reductions ranged from 8% to 49% for all crashes, with reductions for most studies in the 14% to 25% range. For injury crashes the decrease ranged between 8% to 50% and for crashes resulting in fatalities or serious injuries the reductions were in the range of 11% to 44%. Effects over wider areas showed reductions for all crashes ranging from 9% to 35%, with most studies reporting reductions in the 11% to 27% range. For crashes resulting in death or serious injury reductions ranged from 17% to 58%, with most studies reporting this result in the 30% to 40% reduction range. The studies of longer duration showed that these positive trends were either maintained or improved with time. Nevertheless, the authors conceded that the magnitude of the benefit from speed cameras "is currently not deducible" due to limitations in the methodological rigor of many of the 28 studies cited, and recommended that "more studies of a scientifically rigorous and homogenous nature are necessary, to provide the answer to the magnitude of effect."
The 2010 report, "The Effectiveness of Speed Cameras A review of evidence",[31] by Richard Allsop concludes "The findings of this review for the RAC Foundation, though reached independently, are essentially consistent with the Cochrane Review conclusions. They are also broadly consistent with the findings of a meta-analysis reported in the respected Handbook of Road Safety Measures, of 16 studies, not including the four-year evaluation report, of the effects of fixed cameras on numbers of collisions and casualties."<<
dawgtrails
Footballguy
I also speed. I also walk and ride my bike a lot, and think that in many areas the speed limits are way too fast.
I always felt that police officers spent way too much time on traffic enforcement. It's gotta be no fun writing tickets after tickets while having hostile conversations with annoyed drivers all day long. Maybe this would free up their time for more thorough police work?
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Lots of speed cameras here in Baltimore. Hate them. Some red-light cameras too, but I never get popped for those, only the $50 speeding fines.
If I'm late to get my kids, I'm gonna speed. Not 75 in a 35, but likely 50.
If I'm late to get my kids, I'm gonna speed. Not 75 in a 35, but likely 50.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
####ed-up police state moneygrab.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Yes and no. I kinda get the thought on having police focus on actual important things like real crimes and not traffic stops. Plus the camera doesn't care about your race, the type of car you drive, or your age.
In Taiwan on their limited access highways, they directly bill you for the tolls. They will also hit you with speed fines if your average speed is over the limit by some small %. Average speed = distance between cameras / time.
The possible benefit is hundreds or thousands of saved lives. See the Cochrane Review of 28 studies from 2010 I posted above. I didn't realize such cameras were in other countries that long ago.
They really shouldn't. They actually make things less safe. The city I live in had a number of them and got rid of them for that reason. The only people saying they make things more safe are the companies that sell them, and the studies they cite are ones they financed.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
djmich
Footballguy
On a different note, anybody have the feature where your car jams on the breaks if it senses a head on collision.
I have this and some ####### decided to poke out too far waiting for me to pass while he was looking to merge…and my car sensed a potential collision and decided to jam the breaks as hard as possible at 45mph. Bunch of alarms when of, scared the #### out if me.
I can’t even turn it off…easily could have had someone rear end me.
I have this and some ####### decided to poke out too far waiting for me to pass while he was looking to merge…and my car sensed a potential collision and decided to jam the breaks as hard as possible at 45mph. Bunch of alarms when of, scared the #### out if me.
I can’t even turn it off…easily could have had someone rear end me.
dawgtrails
Footballguy
That article says that it appears to be neutral. Increases some type of accidents while decreasing others.John123 said:
However, it doesn't go into pedestrian/vehicle accidents which I would imagine decrease significantly and should be part of the calculus. The authors cite that cameras reduced instances of drivers running red lights by a staggering 67%. That must result in fewer pedestrian fatalities.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
You said, "They actually make things less safe." But that's not the conclusion reached in that study. It only concluded that while angle accident numbers (i.e. t-boned after running a red light) decreased, rear-end collisions increased and therefore no statistically significant improvement in safety could be discerned.John123 said:
Speaking personally, I feel much more at risk of some dude running a light or a stop sign than I do about me braking hard and causing a rear-end accident. Maybe that's because I'm looking for that cross traffic more than in my rear view mirror.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Still might not be statistically significant if the sample size is small. How many pedestrian fatalities or injuries were caused by running a red light in Houston during the study?
Yes, I'll concede I could have worded my statement better and said there is no proof that red light cameras make intersections safer. Either way, the point remains that the only people touting these things as being some boon to public safety are the companies profiting off of them.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Hardly a nightmare in my book, we should be doing a lot more to make the roads safer.
Somehow people in Germany can go almost any speed they want on certain roads safely. Maybe it's not the speed that's the issue.....
dawgtrails
Footballguy
No idea about Houston. Looks like in the US in 2019, there were 846 pedestrian fatalities and an estimated 130,000 injuries due to cars running red lights
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
dawgtrails
Footballguy
The autobahn is also not particularly safe when compared to other European highways.
A search of the article being discussed in this thread doesn't yield any matches for the term "school zone." One might think your post is disingenuous
I can't speak to that, but it apparently is safer than U.S. highways:
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/is-the-autobahn-safer-than-u-s-highways/
dawgtrails
Footballguy
The discussion has morphed into talking about red light cameras as well, which would certainly be more closely related to school zones than German highways with no speed limitsA search of the article being discussed in this thread doesn't yield any matches for the term "school zone." One might think your post is disingenuous
dawgtrails
Footballguy
Yea, I was just going with countrie that are more similar. There is definitely more to safety than just how fast you go. Americans fail at a lot of stuff related to safety (condition of roads, amount of training a driver gets, distractions, drunk driving, etc)
And no one has suggested removing speed limits from school zones. The schools in my area have blinking lights indicating the speed limit during the hours kids are coming/going to school, which are significantly lower than the normal speed limit. And they enforce those speed limits aggressively, with enhanced fines for a ticket during those hours. We don't have a problem with people speeding through those school zones, even without cameras.
To be clear on my stance on red lights and speeding cameras:
1) AFAIK every one of those programs is administered by a third party, for profit corporation. They give a percentage of the take back to the local municipality. I don't like there being a for profit motive to these initiatives. That's ripe for abuse.
2) I can't speak for every jurisdiction but in my city, when they had red light cameras, it took significant police resources off the street because they had to review each camera ticket before it was issued:
https://highlandsranchherald.net/stories/littleton-to-stop-use-of-red-light-cameras,182323
3) The constitution allows for the accused to confront their accuser in court. That's not possible with cameras, and there have been a number of cases where it's been proven that cameras in some jurisdictions were inaccurate. The people who didn't fight to uncover those inaccuracies were incorrectly prosecuted with the cameras being presumed to be telling the "truth."
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Juxtatarot
Footballguy
My intent wasn't to be disingenuous. If they install more cameras like this, I hope it's in a way that attempts to maximizes safety.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
No, but your ignorance of US highways vs the autobahn is relevant to the discussion, since you brought the autobahn in here as some attempt at proving a point.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Do they have speed cameras on the highway in Germany? Felt like they were all over the place when I’ve driven in Spain or France
I think it served it's purpose well. If you want to "educate" me go ahead but the fact remains that a significant portion of the Autobahn doesn't have speed limits and the Autobahn is safer than U.S. Highways. So, I don't think your gotcha moment is as defined as you think it is.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Really love the new obsession in here with the term “gotcha.” Definitely a good add to discussions.
Driving on the autobahn is like driving in Wyoming for the most part. Not that you really appear to have any interest in learning more.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
Yes, and they will have speed cameras as well, WHICH THEY HAVE HAD FOR DECADES, AND ARE KNOWN FOR.
Jiminy Christmas, way to tell me you have heard something vague about the Autobahn, but know nothing else about a country.
Not having been on the Autobahn doesn't mean I haven't read about it. Your suggestion that I'm "ignorant" simply because I haven't been there is condescending and rude. And, per your own link, the Autobahn carried 31% of motorized traffic in Germany in 2014. Does Wyoming account for 31% of the United State's motorized traffic? IOW, I don't think that comparison is apt.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Your comparison is pretty simple. It’s hard to imagine how anyone who knows about the autobahn could possibly draw the conclusions you are drawing. I mean, it’s actually worse if you understand the autobahn and still draw these conclusions. People are ignorant on plenty of issues. I’m ignorant when it comes to art history, hockey, classical music, Joe Rogan, and a multitude of other topics. It’s nothing to be upset about.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
And yeah - it carries a lot of traffic. And it has speed limits in densely populated areas where most of the traffic is. In the far less populated areas, where there isn’t a speed limit, the experience is a lot like driving through Wyoming. How do I know? A) I’ve driven both places extensively, B) I took the time to learn about it. Even your above quote demonstrates that you are reading random sentences and facts but don’t really know what you are talking about.
This fixation on the Autobahn is getting tedious. If you really want to continue discussing the topics in this thread, which have nothing to do with a highway in a foreign country, look above for my post that includes the text "To be clear on my stance on red lights and speeding cameras:" and go from there. I'd repost it here but it has quotes and formatting that I'm not sure would cut/paste well.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
The fixation on the topic you brought up? This was your creation. And now you don’t like it? Unreal. I’m done. Everyone can see what happened here for themselves.
Yep, we got off on a tangent that had nothing to do with this thread, and one of us decided to abandon that tangent because it's not relevant or worth going back and forth over. Apparently, you're really fixated on talking about something that has nothing to do with this thread topic.
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