The Stock Market and Fantasy Football (1 Viewer)

[lionsroar]

My Fiancee always tells me that if I put as much time into _______ as I did fantasy football I would be much more productive. This got me thinking. As an educator, can we at footballguys build a model to teach individuals the stockmarket using the concepts and terminology of fantasy football?

 

[The Great Snook]

I'm guessing "No".

 

[FUBAR]

The similarity pretty much stops at "buy low, sell high", don't be afraid to use your instincts instead of others, and popularity often equals overpriced.

 

[lionsroar]

The similarity pretty much stops at "buy low, sell high", don't be afraid to use your instincts instead of others, and popularity often equals overpriced.

Perfect. We are already making a comparitive analysis. Elementary kids could easily make the comparison. My point is, youngsters already know how to play fantasy football, what no young generation knows- is how to play the stock market. We would rather let them play the Xbox. I was hoping to think outside "the box" here.

 

[Ice Cream Man]

My point is, youngsters already know how to play fantasy football, what no young generation knows- is how to play the stock market. We would rather let them play the Xbox.

I'm not exactly sure teaching kids how to play the stock market is actually a valued market skill. Or if nothing else, I don't think there is a shortage of knowledgeable risk-takers involved in that arena. Why not teach them to play texas hold'em?

 

[FUBAR]

My point is, youngsters already know how to play fantasy football, what no young generation knows- is how to play the stock market. We would rather let them play the Xbox.

I'm not exactly sure teaching kids how to play the stock market is actually a valued market skill. Or if nothing else, I don't think there is a shortage of knowledgeable risk-takers involved in that arena. Why not teach them to play texas hold'em?

Playing the stock market is a lot like FF, but investing wisely is more like gardening.

 

[Jason Wood]

Investing isn't a game, although too many people think otherwise. And it's damn sure not like fantasy football, where even those with a decided information advantage often find themselves far outside the winner's circle. Spending the lion's share of my life entrenched in both, I get both insulted and mystified at the comparison of the two.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

My Fiancee always tells me that if I put as much time into _______ as I did fantasy football I would be much more productive. This got me thinking. As an educator, can we at footballguys build a model to teach individuals the stockmarket using the concepts and terminology of fantasy football?

I've already done this analysis, and the conclusion is (practically) static.Over the long haul, tech, finance and health services are bound to outperform other sectors (because of the inherent profit margins built into ripping people off) therefore build a mutual fund portfolio of 33% in each of the above sectors and you are guaranteed to maximize your return over a 10+ year time horizon.You're welcome.

 

[crnerblitz]

My Fiancee always tells me that if I put as much time into _______ as I did fantasy football I would be much more productive. This got me thinking. As an educator, can we at footballguys build a model to teach individuals the stockmarket using the concepts and terminology of fantasy football?

I've already done this analysis, and the conclusion is (practically) static.Over the long haul, tech, finance and health services are bound to outperform other sectors (because of the inherent profit margins built into ripping people off) therefore build a mutual fund portfolio of 33% in each of the above sectors and you are guaranteed to maximize your return over a 10+ year time horizon.You're welcome.

Your value system intrigues me. Do you have a Newsletter I can subscriber too? I say this because I agree with your conclusions.

 

[Pai Mei]

Investing isn't a game, although too many people think otherwise. And it's damn sure not like fantasy football, where even those with a decided information advantage often find themselves far outside the winner's circle. Spending the lion's share of my life entrenched in both, I get both insulted and mystified at the comparison of the two.

I've spent the majority of my life in either one or both the fantasy football and investing field, and I can tell you investing has a lot of similarities to a game. For one, there is a clear sense of winners and losers. A new business sector can emerge, like the cellphone industry, and new companies will sprout up like so many saplings, competing with each other to survive. Eventually the winners emerge victorious, and the losers are left to rot.It blows my mind to think Jason Wood does not see the similarities.I mean, Jason just said "And it's damn sure not like fantasy football, where even those with a decided information advantage often find themselves far outside the winner's circle." Right off the top of my head I can think of a major US company that fits that bill. IBM. In the Great Depression, a ton of companies struggled to sell goods and had to suffer with high inventories that people weren't buying. They laid off workers or went bankrupt. IBM were the MORONS of industry during this time. The executives were so stupid they actually thought the BEST move was to crank out more and more business machines. They filled up their warehouses with them. And then FDR implemented a vast new tax system that required TONS of business machines to handle the paperwork. IBM was the only business in position to handle to load. A classic example of a case where those companies with an information advantage finished FAR outside the winner's circle.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

Investing isn't a game, although too many people think otherwise. And it's damn sure not like fantasy football, where even those with a decided information advantage often find themselves far outside the winner's circle. Spending the lion's share of my life entrenched in both, I get both insulted and mystified at the comparison of the two.

I'll disagree.

Both favor strategy and smarts in the long term, but certain overwhelming short term gains are undeniable and undefendable. Sometimes the "stupid play" will garner a yield to win you a title or to let you sell when stock spikes.

And to say the market isn't a game? You need to step back from this lifelong obession. Fantasy football at least has absolute values. 90 yards is 90 yards and thats that, we don't debate if 90 yards was really 75 or 140 based on how tough the D was, how the weather factored in, was the QB injuried. The numbers are concrete and absolute. Markets fluctuate on perception and if a strong company reads weak or vice versa, their number will likewise go up and down. A steady hand and a dedicated philosophy will USUALLY win the day, but like fantasy football, and poker, when we try to convince ourselves of our remarkable smarts, a little luck will kick smarts ### any day.

And its a game as much as anything because you win and lose.

One more point to the OP, if you are trying to quantify the similarities, I would say in fantasy football and the market, information, and timely information most importantly, is king.

 

[cstu]

Investing isn't a game, although too many people think otherwise. And it's damn sure not like fantasy football, where even those with a decided information advantage often find themselves far outside the winner's circle. Spending the lion's share of my life entrenched in both, I get both insulted and mystified at the comparison of the two.

I'll disagree.

Both favor strategy and smarts in the long term, but certain overwhelming short term gains are undeniable and undefendable. Sometimes the "stupid play" will garner a yield to win you a title or to let you sell when stock spikes.

And to say the market isn't a game? You need to step back from this lifelong obession. Fantasy football at least has absolute values. 90 yards is 90 yards and thats that, we don't debate if 90 yards was really 75 or 140 based on how tough the D was, how the weather factored in, was the QB injuried. The numbers are concrete and absolute. Markets fluctuate on perception and if a strong company reads weak or vice versa, their number will likewise go up and down. A steady hand and a dedicated philosophy will USUALLY win the day, but like fantasy football, and poker, when we try to convince ourselves of our remarkable smarts, a little luck will kick smarts ### any day.

And its a game as much as anything because you win and lose.

One more point to the OP, if you are trying to quantify the similarities, I would say in fantasy football and the market, information, and timely information most importantly, is king.

Why are you posting in blue?

 

[lionsroar]

This is great stuff guys. I can think of many examples this season where the buy low sell high scenario worked for me in the short run. I have also trusted my gut that one of my high draft picks was going to come around and it never happened. What about injuries to a player? Strength of schedule? Monday night bullets? All of this can easily equate to a lesson plan where we are introducing the basics of young minds about the market and using a teaching method that they will be much moring willing to understand and embrace...

 

[Itchy Amos]

Investing isn't a game, although too many people think otherwise. And it's damn sure not like fantasy football, where even those with a decided information advantage often find themselves far outside the winner's circle. Spending the lion's share of my life entrenched in both, I get both insulted and mystified at the comparison of the two.

I'll disagree.

Both favor strategy and smarts in the long term, but certain overwhelming short term gains are undeniable and undefendable. Sometimes the "stupid play" will garner a yield to win you a title or to let you sell when stock spikes.

And to say the market isn't a game? You need to step back from this lifelong obession. Fantasy football at least has absolute values. 90 yards is 90 yards and thats that, we don't debate if 90 yards was really 75 or 140 based on how tough the D was, how the weather factored in, was the QB injuried. The numbers are concrete and absolute. Markets fluctuate on perception and if a strong company reads weak or vice versa, their number will likewise go up and down. A steady hand and a dedicated philosophy will USUALLY win the day, but like fantasy football, and poker, when we try to convince ourselves of our remarkable smarts, a little luck will kick smarts ### any day.

And its a game as much as anything because you win and lose.

One more point to the OP, if you are trying to quantify the similarities, I would say in fantasy football and the market, information, and timely information most importantly, is king.

I have to agree with Jason on this one. I think you are missing the bigger picture issue if you think of investing as a game.Sure, there are some similar terms and concepts between the two, but that is where it ends. Investing (at least in my mind) is a serious business. Winners and losers? I guess it all depends upon the timeframe and investment goals that you are looking at, but this seems like the wrong message to send to kids. Games rarely have any lasting consequenses. All you have to see is this country's growing credit card debt to realize that most people look at debt as some kind of score and dont understand the lasting effects that poor financial decisions can have. Buy low, sell high sounds great. If you can tell me how to recognize these points I will gladly pay you a hefty sum of money.

I think a more apt comparison for responsible investing is (like someone said above) gardening. The ideas of planting a seed and helping it grow through vigilant maintenance and a carefully thought-out long term plan is probably a much better comparison.

I am not saying that finding a fun way to expose children to the principals of investing is a bad thing. Far from that, it is a great thing if done right and the proper principals are enforced.

 

[FUBAR]

Investing isn't a game, although too many people think otherwise. And it's damn sure not like fantasy football, where even those with a decided information advantage often find themselves far outside the winner's circle. Spending the lion's share of my life entrenched in both, I get both insulted and mystified at the comparison of the two.

I'll disagree.

Both favor strategy and smarts in the long term, but certain overwhelming short term gains are undeniable and undefendable. Sometimes the "stupid play" will garner a yield to win you a title or to let you sell when stock spikes.

And to say the market isn't a game? You need to step back from this lifelong obession. Fantasy football at least has absolute values. 90 yards is 90 yards and thats that, we don't debate if 90 yards was really 75 or 140 based on how tough the D was, how the weather factored in, was the QB injuried. The numbers are concrete and absolute. Markets fluctuate on perception and if a strong company reads weak or vice versa, their number will likewise go up and down. A steady hand and a dedicated philosophy will USUALLY win the day, but like fantasy football, and poker, when we try to convince ourselves of our remarkable smarts, a little luck will kick smarts ### any day.

And its a game as much as anything because you win and lose.

One more point to the OP, if you are trying to quantify the similarities, I would say in fantasy football and the market, information, and timely information most importantly, is king.

I have to agree with Jason on this one. I think you are missing the bigger picture issue if you think of investing as a game.Sure, there are some similar terms and concepts between the two, but that is where it ends. Investing (at least in my mind) is a serious business. Winners and losers? I guess it all depends upon the timeframe and investment goals that you are looking at, but this seems like the wrong message to send to kids. Games rarely have any lasting consequenses. All you have to see is this country's growing credit card debt to realize that most people look at debt as some kind of score and dont understand the lasting effects that poor financial decisions can have. Buy low, sell high sounds great. If you can tell me how to recognize these points I will gladly pay you a hefty sum of money.

I think a more apt comparison for responsible investing is (like someone said above) gardening. The ideas of planting a seed and helping it grow through vigilant maintenance and a carefully thought-out long term plan is probably a much better comparison.

I am not saying that finding a fun way to expose children to the principals of investing is a bad thing. Far from that, it is a great thing if done right and the proper principals are enforced.

Buy low / sell high, doesn't mean at the peaks, it means simply buying undervalued commodities and selling overvalued. This requires in depth analysis to figure out the true value of the commodity. If I think Matt Leinart is a future top 10 QB and will start to show it in 08, but he's being valued around #20, that's a good opportunity to buy. If I think Tom Brady will be the #3-5 QB next year and I can trade him for Carson Palmer (let's just assume here that I think he's the #1 for the future) + something, I sell. Same idea with stocks. If I think EBay is worth $40 per share, but it's being sold for $28.33, I buy. If I have Google and I think it's worth $500 a share, but it sells for $600, I sell. The difference lays in how we analyze the values. Plus, the entire stock market can lose or win over a period of time, you never have that problem with FF, but that's simply because the stocks can be compared to cash, but what can FF players be compared to?

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

Investing isn't a game, although too many people think otherwise. And it's damn sure not like fantasy football, where even those with a decided information advantage often find themselves far outside the winner's circle. Spending the lion's share of my life entrenched in both, I get both insulted and mystified at the comparison of the two.

I'll disagree.

Both favor strategy and smarts in the long term, but certain overwhelming short term gains are undeniable and undefendable. Sometimes the "stupid play" will garner a yield to win you a title or to let you sell when stock spikes.

And to say the market isn't a game? You need to step back from this lifelong obession. Fantasy football at least has absolute values. 90 yards is 90 yards and thats that, we don't debate if 90 yards was really 75 or 140 based on how tough the D was, how the weather factored in, was the QB injuried. The numbers are concrete and absolute. Markets fluctuate on perception and if a strong company reads weak or vice versa, their number will likewise go up and down. A steady hand and a dedicated philosophy will USUALLY win the day, but like fantasy football, and poker, when we try to convince ourselves of our remarkable smarts, a little luck will kick smarts ### any day.

And its a game as much as anything because you win and lose.

One more point to the OP, if you are trying to quantify the similarities, I would say in fantasy football and the market, information, and timely information most importantly, is king.

I have to agree with Jason on this one. I think you are missing the bigger picture issue if you think of investing as a game.Sure, there are some similar terms and concepts between the two, but that is where it ends. Investing (at least in my mind) is a serious business. Winners and losers? I guess it all depends upon the timeframe and investment goals that you are looking at, but this seems like the wrong message to send to kids. Games rarely have any lasting consequenses. All you have to see is this country's growing credit card debt to realize that most people look at debt as some kind of score and dont understand the lasting effects that poor financial decisions can have. Buy low, sell high sounds great. If you can tell me how to recognize these points I will gladly pay you a hefty sum of money.

I think a more apt comparison for responsible investing is (like someone said above) gardening. The ideas of planting a seed and helping it grow through vigilant maintenance and a carefully thought-out long term plan is probably a much better comparison.

I am not saying that finding a fun way to expose children to the principals of investing is a bad thing. Far from that, it is a great thing if done right and the proper principals are enforced.

Buy low / sell high, doesn't mean at the peaks, it means simply buying undervalued commodities and selling overvalued. This requires in depth analysis to figure out the true value of the commodity. If I think Matt Leinart is a future top 10 QB and will start to show it in 08, but he's being valued around #20, that's a good opportunity to buy. If I think Tom Brady will be the #3-5 QB next year and I can trade him for Carson Palmer (let's just assume here that I think he's the #1 for the future) + something, I sell. Same idea with stocks. If I think EBay is worth $40 per share, but it's being sold for $28.33, I buy. If I have Google and I think it's worth $500 a share, but it sells for $600, I sell. The difference lays in how we analyze the values. Plus, the entire stock market can lose or win over a period of time, you never have that problem with FF, but that's simply because the stocks can be compared to cash, but what can FF players be compared to?

Fantasy Football has a somewhat fractured window of comparison. Thinking of players as commodities at draft time, your theory definately holds true. But come the season, there is no "market" for them per se. You will occasionally broker trades, but you could offer your whole team for some guys and while every strain of logic dictates it would be a deal beyond fair for your partner, they may not do it thanks to emotional attachment. And stocks don't go out for the season with any where near the frequency of players. Fantasy fooball results can't be equated in dollars, so you need a new valuation, probably something along a lines of yield versus risk. If you buy stock in IBM or a first round draft pick, you expect yield for the high value. No one expects their stud, or IBM stock to tank, considering the elevated value you're placing in the choice. Wheras if Kelly Washington or a penny stock doesn't do much, your yield for lower value is manageable and understood that it was a low risk, high reward transaction.

Finally, fantasy football has different result and outcome spectrum that somewhat alter it from the market. I guess we could maybe twist that into being a dividend. Its what they do week to week, and that is the larger picture, but the results, especially in regard to market, are somewhat more absolute, at least in results. The valuation may not correspond. Coca-Cola can have a down quarter, Peyton Manning can have an off game, but both retain blue chipper status until the abberation becomes a trend and vice versa. But as I mentioned earlier, there is less room for debate in results of fantasy football. Lets not even get into the altered perception of the bottom line, how red becomes black, black becomes red, and maybe black becomes a little less blacker, etc.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

Investing isn't a game, although too many people think otherwise. And it's damn sure not like fantasy football, where even those with a decided information advantage often find themselves far outside the winner's circle. Spending the lion's share of my life entrenched in both, I get both insulted and mystified at the comparison of the two.

I'll disagree.

Both favor strategy and smarts in the long term, but certain overwhelming short term gains are undeniable and undefendable. Sometimes the "stupid play" will garner a yield to win you a title or to let you sell when stock spikes.

And to say the market isn't a game? You need to step back from this lifelong obession. Fantasy football at least has absolute values. 90 yards is 90 yards and thats that, we don't debate if 90 yards was really 75 or 140 based on how tough the D was, how the weather factored in, was the QB injuried. The numbers are concrete and absolute. Markets fluctuate on perception and if a strong company reads weak or vice versa, their number will likewise go up and down. A steady hand and a dedicated philosophy will USUALLY win the day, but like fantasy football, and poker, when we try to convince ourselves of our remarkable smarts, a little luck will kick smarts ### any day.

And its a game as much as anything because you win and lose.

One more point to the OP, if you are trying to quantify the similarities, I would say in fantasy football and the market, information, and timely information most importantly, is king.

I have to agree with Jason on this one. I think you are missing the bigger picture issue if you think of investing as a game.Sure, there are some similar terms and concepts between the two, but that is where it ends. Investing (at least in my mind) is a serious business. Winners and losers? I guess it all depends upon the timeframe and investment goals that you are looking at, but this seems like the wrong message to send to kids. Games rarely have any lasting consequenses. All you have to see is this country's growing credit card debt to realize that most people look at debt as some kind of score and dont understand the lasting effects that poor financial decisions can have. Buy low, sell high sounds great. If you can tell me how to recognize these points I will gladly pay you a hefty sum of money.

I think a more apt comparison for responsible investing is (like someone said above) gardening. The ideas of planting a seed and helping it grow through vigilant maintenance and a carefully thought-out long term plan is probably a much better comparison.

I am not saying that finding a fun way to expose children to the principals of investing is a bad thing. Far from that, it is a great thing if done right and the proper principals are enforced.

And that may be reflective of my bias toward the market in general, which I wouldn't advise as a place to overbalance in long term investment. Too much risk.

 

[FUBAR]

Fantasy fooball results can't be equated in dollars, so you need a new valuation, probably something along a lines of yield versus risk. If you buy stock in IBM or a first round draft pick, you expect yield for the high value. No one expects their stud, or IBM stock to tank, considering the elevated value you're placing in the choice. Wheras if Kelly Washington or a penny stock doesn't do much, your yield for lower value is manageable and understood that it was a low risk, high reward transaction.

Plus, I'm not going to buy 1,000 shares of Kelly Washington. Penny stocks can be a high risk, high reward transaction. Don't forget, each trade in the market bears a cost. Not so in most FF leagues.

 

[kellumsboys]

Ryan Grant was the "penny stock" that really paid off this year.

I would say the stock market relates more to a dynasty league than a redraft.

investing in players like Jamarcus Russell or Anthony Gonzalez are obviously for the long haul (like the gardening analogy).

players like Peyton , LT, Holt and Gates are the blue chippers at their positions like Coke and Pepsi.

add in IDPs and you need to study the different types of defenses like you study the characteristics of each stock.

good stuff guys.

hopefully no recession hits in FF this year.

but, if LT's injury lingers into next year it could be a depression in my keeper league at work.

 

[Tchula]

Theres never a recession in FF. Theres just seasons when YOUR team has a recession. Someone is always doing well.

 

[lionsroar]

I've already learned about the stock market in this thread. That is my point. I guess what I am really trying to accomplish here is finding innovative methods to reach kids using a common ground that THEY understand. Hence the comparison. Is it apples to apples- of course not. I do know this. Nobody taught me about credit card interest rates, and student loan re-payment plans when I was in school. Just a couple of harsh examples that I was forced to learn the hard way...

 

[Ron_Mexico]

I've already done this analysis, and the conclusion is (practically) static.Over the long haul, tech, finance and health services are bound to outperform other sectors (because of the inherent profit margins built into ripping people off) therefore build a mutual fund portfolio of 33% in each of the above sectors and you are guaranteed to maximize your return over a 10+ year time horizon.You're welcome.

ADD - Mining Stocks (mainly copper zinc, nickel, gold, silver)

 

[Mike]

I've never played but if you want to equate sports with the stock market try ProTrade.