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The Tea Party is back in business! (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
You made the bold statement, not me. I'm just asking where you got that number from. I guess you just made it up since you're throwing up smoke screens.You don't know how to start a poll then?You're the moron who made the statement. I'm just asking where this number came from. Is it safe to say you can't substantiate it?Try starting a poll genius.LInk?98% of this forum is private sector.
timschochet
Footballguy
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
I thought you took the job for the security and to help your fellow man? So you're getting paid well too? So it's NOT just about the security?
Premier
Footballguy
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Of the top 40 posters here at FBG, I know almost everyone's job or sector affiliation. Of those only me and Rayder are public sector employees, I'm not sure about Bri and maybe one other. I have given advice to folks here before, and gotten advice back on public sector specific things. Based on that I am certain 90% are private sector, but I would guess it is closer to 95% or higher.You made the bold statement, not me. I'm just asking where you got that number from. I guess you just made it up since you're throwing up smoke screens.You don't know how to start a poll then?You're the moron who made the statement. I'm just asking where this number came from. Is it safe to say you can't substantiate it?Try starting a poll genius.LInk?98% of this forum is private sector.
And you're right, I made the claim. Sorry for the response.
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MaxThreshold
Footballguy
Pretty much. So this place isn't very representative of things. The way I envision your typical government worker they have enough trouble turning on a computer. So they probably waste time doing other things, like trying to think and stuff.
Premier
Footballguy
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
This thread got off track.
I hate all three branches of government, this much I know. It continues to be frustrating for private, public, pubic and portly sector employees and IMO this country is in a bit of trouble. How it can be fixed is people at least talking things out, we probably do more of that here in a night than Congress does in a month. We don't always agree and it gets heated, but at least we talk it out. At some point many of us come to common ground. Isn't that amazing? Might not be about government but jonmx and I both love the Detroit Tigers. There is always a starting point...
I hate all three branches of government, this much I know. It continues to be frustrating for private, public, pubic and portly sector employees and IMO this country is in a bit of trouble. How it can be fixed is people at least talking things out, we probably do more of that here in a night than Congress does in a month. We don't always agree and it gets heated, but at least we talk it out. At some point many of us come to common ground. Isn't that amazing? Might not be about government but jonmx and I both love the Detroit Tigers. There is always a starting point...
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
timschochet
Footballguy
How does somebody get onto this list. Is it by volume?Of the top 40 posters here at FBG, I know almost everyone's job or sector affiliation. Of those only me and Rayder are public sector employees, I'm not sure about Bri and maybe one other. I have given advice to folks here before, and gotten advice back on public sector specific things. Based on that I am certain 90% are private sector, but I would guess it is closer to 95% or higher.You made the bold statement, not me. I'm just asking where you got that number from. I guess you just made it up since you're throwing up smoke screens.You don't know how to start a poll then?You're the moron who made the statement. I'm just asking where this number came from. Is it safe to say you can't substantiate it?Try starting a poll genius.LInk?98% of this forum is private sector.
And you're right, I made the claim. Sorry for the response.
timschochet
Footballguy
Yes, and you're on pace to obliterate everyone. You're at like 4 or 5 or something, but everyone at the top is bunched together and you have a pace no one can sustain (and still actually get anything done in life).How does somebody get onto this list. Is it by volume?Of the top 40 posters here at FBG, I know almost everyone's job or sector affiliation. Of those only me and Rayder are public sector employees, I'm not sure about Bri and maybe one other. I have given advice to folks here before, and gotten advice back on public sector specific things. Based on that I am certain 90% are private sector, but I would guess it is closer to 95% or higher.You made the bold statement, not me. I'm just asking where you got that number from. I guess you just made it up since you're throwing up smoke screens.You don't know how to start a poll then?You're the moron who made the statement. I'm just asking where this number came from. Is it safe to say you can't substantiate it?Try starting a poll genius.LInk?98% of this forum is private sector.
And you're right, I made the claim. Sorry for the response.
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Mister CIA
Footballguy
Maelstrom
Footballguy
What the rest of the world thinks about the US inability to govern:
(It is Huffington post, but before the conservatives dismiss it, most of it is just quotes from world leaders and others around the world. Definitely worth a read regardless of ideology.)
(In a spoiler tag so reduce scrolling on mobile)
(It is Huffington post, but before the conservatives dismiss it, most of it is just quotes from world leaders and others around the world. Definitely worth a read regardless of ideology.)
(In a spoiler tag so reduce scrolling on mobile)
WASHINGTON -- In the worlds greatest superpower, with the oldest constitutional democracy on Earth, American exceptionalism has struck again. The government shutdown that began this week has stunned the world. With tea party-aligned Republicans insisting any measure to fund the government be tied to defunding or delaying the Affordable Care Act, and Democrats unwilling to yield to their demands, gridlock and frustration have reached levels that only the American political system seems capable of achieving.
While countries like Belize, Iran, Pakistan and Egypt face coups, revolutions, crippling debt, international sanctions, civil war and default, the threat of a government shutdown for them has never been a real one. As Georgetown University professor Erik Voeten writes in The Washington Post, "I cannot think of a single foreign analogy to what is happening in the U.S. today."
Many of the worlds democracies function with parliamentary systems, and in cases of hopeless budget gridlock, the parliament is dissolved, new elections are held, and whole process starts over, writes Slate's Joshua Keating.
Belgians in 2010 and 2011 went without an elected government for 589 days. But even then, budgets were passed, government workers were paid, and government services continued to be provided," writes Voeten.
Not so in the U.S.
In 1975, Australia faced a similar budget debacle, leading to a short government shutdown. Unlike the vitriolic battle of words that often takes place in the the U.S. political system, however, Australias governor general, Sir John Kerr, simply dismissed the prime minister. He appointed a replacement, who immediately passed the spending bill to fund the government. Three hours later, Kerr dismissed the rest of Parliament. Then Australia held elections to restart from scratch. And they haven't had another shutdown since, writes The Washington Post's Max Fisher.
As the U.S. shutdown continues, national monuments and parks remain closed, hundreds of thousands of American workers go without pay, and federally funded social services for millions of women and children have ceased operating. Abroad, the world is caught between laughter and confusion as a superpower is paralyzed by its inability to overcome a relentless minority of lawmakers who have put the the entire government on the line to defund a health care law passed by Congress, signed by the president and upheld by the Supreme Court. America's political meltdown, an international embarrassment, has compromised the country's global image and credibility:
China
"With no political unity to redress its policy mistake, a dysfunctional Washington is now overspending the confidence in its leadership. -- Xinhua
India
In India, some business executives told VOA they could not understand how a country as developed as the United States could see its government shut down because of a legislative impasse. -- Voice of America
United Kingdom
It is a risk to the world economy if the U.S. cant properly sort out its spending plans. -- Prime Minister David Cameron to BBC Radio 4s Today
For most of the world, a government shutdown is very bad news - the result of revolution, invasion or disaster. Even in the middle of its ongoing civil war, the Syrian government has continued to pay its bills and workers wages. That leaders of one of the most powerful nations on earth willingly provoked a crisis that suspends public services and decreases economic growth is astonishing to many. Now, as the latest shutdown crisis plays out, policymakers in other nations are left to ponder the worldwide impact of the impasse. -- Anthony Zurcher, BBC
The last few weeks of paralysis on Capitol Hill have demonstrated a system apparently quite incapable of rational action and thought. Its not the economy thats the problem, but the government. -- The Telegraph
Middle East
"The whole concept is little surreal for our readers, trying to understand why the No. 1 country in the world cannot pass a budget. I come from Lebanon and our parliament is very ineffective, but ludicrous as it sounds, it is better than U.S. Congress when it comes to passing budgets." -- Joyce Karam, Al-Hayat (via Dylan Scott, TPM report)
Canada
"This is a weird, messed-up feature of the American political system. I suppose the checks and balances obsession made sense 200 years ago. It makes no sense any longer. For a country that fancies itself the greatest democracy on Earth, the fact that a small band of outliers in one party can essentially shut down the federal government over a petty political brawl seems woefully undemocratic." -- Lee-Anne Goodman, Canadian Press (via TPM report)
Canadians can only pray their economy won't be collateral damage. Anything that drags down the American economy drags the Canadian economy down with it." -- John Ibbitson, Globe and Mail (via Washington Times)
Mexico
Instead they [u.S. officials] squabble over the inconsequential accomplishment of a 10-week funding extension. It isnt serious, but it certainly isnt funny. -- The News
France
This Republic was founded on a majority opinion of centrists from both major parties of the country. Over the years, this has stalled. American democracy works worse and worse. The American politicians supposed to lead the most powerful nation in the world are becoming a laughing stock. -- Le Monde (via ThinkProgress)
The idea that on a given date, at a specific time, overnight, the state may be partly disconnected would appear to be unthinkable. Something from science fiction, or simple madness. -- Nicolas Demorand, Libération (via The New York Times )
Australia
The reality that another round of misplaced fiscal brinkmanship in Washington is undermining confidence in America's own economic recovery and that of the global, post-GFC economy that depends so heavily on it neither does it say much for the budgetary processes in the world's largest economy. Using Obamacare as the battering ram in the Republican campaign against the President is both irresponsible and damaging for the U.S. and the global economy. -- The Australian
Germany
A superpower has paralyzed itself. -- Der Spiegel Online
A small group of uncompromising Republican ideologues in the House of Representatives are principally responsive for this disaster. They are not only taking their own party to the brink, but the whole country. Unfortunately the leadership of this party has neither had the courage nor the backbone to put them in their place. --Die Zielt
What America is currently exhibiting is the worst kind of absurd theatrics and the whole world is being held hostage. -- Bild (via ThinkProgress)
"What Washington currently offers up is a spectacle, but one in which the spectators feel more like crying. The public is left wondering how things could have been allowed to get to this point and why there is so much poison in the system" --Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung.
Japan
"Personally I think it's an international embarrassment. It's just another sign of the declining U.S. influence around the world and a sign of the very divisive extremist politics that have become prominent here. There's no civilized discourse that I can see." -- Elliot Waldman, Tokyo Broadcasting Co. (via TPM report)
Sweden
"Not being able to fund a law or do such a fundamental thing as a budget is worrying for a nation, and somewhat crazy for a democracy like the U.S." -- Sanna Toren Bjorling, Dagens Nyheter (via TPM report)
Norway
"It's to us Norwegians hard to understand that it can be happening in one of the most influential countries in the world that you can have such a dysfunctional government. It is kind of joke or disbelief. We laugh about it. How is it possible at all? Why would they do that?" -- Anders Tvegard, Norwegian Broadcasting Corp. (via TPM report)
Spain
"It's a bit shocking, and I would say sometimes even embarrassing, coming from the best democracy. -- Lorenzo Mila, Television Espanola (via TPM report)
While countries like Belize, Iran, Pakistan and Egypt face coups, revolutions, crippling debt, international sanctions, civil war and default, the threat of a government shutdown for them has never been a real one. As Georgetown University professor Erik Voeten writes in The Washington Post, "I cannot think of a single foreign analogy to what is happening in the U.S. today."
Many of the worlds democracies function with parliamentary systems, and in cases of hopeless budget gridlock, the parliament is dissolved, new elections are held, and whole process starts over, writes Slate's Joshua Keating.
Belgians in 2010 and 2011 went without an elected government for 589 days. But even then, budgets were passed, government workers were paid, and government services continued to be provided," writes Voeten.
Not so in the U.S.
In 1975, Australia faced a similar budget debacle, leading to a short government shutdown. Unlike the vitriolic battle of words that often takes place in the the U.S. political system, however, Australias governor general, Sir John Kerr, simply dismissed the prime minister. He appointed a replacement, who immediately passed the spending bill to fund the government. Three hours later, Kerr dismissed the rest of Parliament. Then Australia held elections to restart from scratch. And they haven't had another shutdown since, writes The Washington Post's Max Fisher.
As the U.S. shutdown continues, national monuments and parks remain closed, hundreds of thousands of American workers go without pay, and federally funded social services for millions of women and children have ceased operating. Abroad, the world is caught between laughter and confusion as a superpower is paralyzed by its inability to overcome a relentless minority of lawmakers who have put the the entire government on the line to defund a health care law passed by Congress, signed by the president and upheld by the Supreme Court. America's political meltdown, an international embarrassment, has compromised the country's global image and credibility:
China
"With no political unity to redress its policy mistake, a dysfunctional Washington is now overspending the confidence in its leadership. -- Xinhua
India
In India, some business executives told VOA they could not understand how a country as developed as the United States could see its government shut down because of a legislative impasse. -- Voice of America
United Kingdom
It is a risk to the world economy if the U.S. cant properly sort out its spending plans. -- Prime Minister David Cameron to BBC Radio 4s Today
For most of the world, a government shutdown is very bad news - the result of revolution, invasion or disaster. Even in the middle of its ongoing civil war, the Syrian government has continued to pay its bills and workers wages. That leaders of one of the most powerful nations on earth willingly provoked a crisis that suspends public services and decreases economic growth is astonishing to many. Now, as the latest shutdown crisis plays out, policymakers in other nations are left to ponder the worldwide impact of the impasse. -- Anthony Zurcher, BBC
The last few weeks of paralysis on Capitol Hill have demonstrated a system apparently quite incapable of rational action and thought. Its not the economy thats the problem, but the government. -- The Telegraph
Middle East
"The whole concept is little surreal for our readers, trying to understand why the No. 1 country in the world cannot pass a budget. I come from Lebanon and our parliament is very ineffective, but ludicrous as it sounds, it is better than U.S. Congress when it comes to passing budgets." -- Joyce Karam, Al-Hayat (via Dylan Scott, TPM report)
Canada
"This is a weird, messed-up feature of the American political system. I suppose the checks and balances obsession made sense 200 years ago. It makes no sense any longer. For a country that fancies itself the greatest democracy on Earth, the fact that a small band of outliers in one party can essentially shut down the federal government over a petty political brawl seems woefully undemocratic." -- Lee-Anne Goodman, Canadian Press (via TPM report)
Canadians can only pray their economy won't be collateral damage. Anything that drags down the American economy drags the Canadian economy down with it." -- John Ibbitson, Globe and Mail (via Washington Times)
Mexico
Instead they [u.S. officials] squabble over the inconsequential accomplishment of a 10-week funding extension. It isnt serious, but it certainly isnt funny. -- The News
France
This Republic was founded on a majority opinion of centrists from both major parties of the country. Over the years, this has stalled. American democracy works worse and worse. The American politicians supposed to lead the most powerful nation in the world are becoming a laughing stock. -- Le Monde (via ThinkProgress)
The idea that on a given date, at a specific time, overnight, the state may be partly disconnected would appear to be unthinkable. Something from science fiction, or simple madness. -- Nicolas Demorand, Libération (via The New York Times )
Australia
The reality that another round of misplaced fiscal brinkmanship in Washington is undermining confidence in America's own economic recovery and that of the global, post-GFC economy that depends so heavily on it neither does it say much for the budgetary processes in the world's largest economy. Using Obamacare as the battering ram in the Republican campaign against the President is both irresponsible and damaging for the U.S. and the global economy. -- The Australian
Germany
A superpower has paralyzed itself. -- Der Spiegel Online
A small group of uncompromising Republican ideologues in the House of Representatives are principally responsive for this disaster. They are not only taking their own party to the brink, but the whole country. Unfortunately the leadership of this party has neither had the courage nor the backbone to put them in their place. --Die Zielt
What America is currently exhibiting is the worst kind of absurd theatrics and the whole world is being held hostage. -- Bild (via ThinkProgress)
"What Washington currently offers up is a spectacle, but one in which the spectators feel more like crying. The public is left wondering how things could have been allowed to get to this point and why there is so much poison in the system" --Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung.
Japan
"Personally I think it's an international embarrassment. It's just another sign of the declining U.S. influence around the world and a sign of the very divisive extremist politics that have become prominent here. There's no civilized discourse that I can see." -- Elliot Waldman, Tokyo Broadcasting Co. (via TPM report)
Sweden
"Not being able to fund a law or do such a fundamental thing as a budget is worrying for a nation, and somewhat crazy for a democracy like the U.S." -- Sanna Toren Bjorling, Dagens Nyheter (via TPM report)
Norway
"It's to us Norwegians hard to understand that it can be happening in one of the most influential countries in the world that you can have such a dysfunctional government. It is kind of joke or disbelief. We laugh about it. How is it possible at all? Why would they do that?" -- Anders Tvegard, Norwegian Broadcasting Corp. (via TPM report)
Spain
"It's a bit shocking, and I would say sometimes even embarrassing, coming from the best democracy. -- Lorenzo Mila, Television Espanola (via TPM report)
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Joe T
Footballguy
Bad comparison. There are no Peyton Mannings in congress and comparing congress to Peyton is delusional.. If you had gone with Christian Ponder vs Mark Sanchez, I would agree.Matthias said:
And in this case, saying they both suck is objectively true.
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The problem is in the federal government it is not easy to fire someone. You end up with a few people pulling most of the weight. There are a lot of employees milking the system. There are a lot of dedicated employees. Federal government ends up with a lot of dead weight, more so than the private sector. Heros? I would not go that far. They are not putting their life on the line like firemen, police, military. They are doing their jobs. Some of them well, some of them are terrible.
dparker713
Footballguy
You realize that a federal judge makes less than a first year associate at a big law firm? And the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court makes less than most 4th year associates, right?
Frankly, I'm tired of hearing this. What a bunch of nonsense. Who really believes this line of bull?
One thing I've been happy about this year is that there haven't been any fly overs at the Bears games. Maybe that's because of the sequester. 
I always felt it was entirely wasteful to celebrate sporting events like this. Heading out to tailgate and enjoy a nice flyover less game. And yes, we very well might lose today.
I always felt it was entirely wasteful to celebrate sporting events like this. Heading out to tailgate and enjoy a nice flyover less game. And yes, we very well might lose today.
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![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
apalmer
Footballguy
Nice--"OK, now that we did this, what reason can we come up with that people will accept?" Now, THAT's leadership.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Usually I would be happy to see a thread with numbers like this, because it would indicate that tim was so busy with this thread that he was unable to contaminate the rest of the forum, But when you have a force of nature like tim, there's no containing him to just one thread. He can deliver this kind of payload to multiple threads simultaneously.
5 digit know nothing
Footballguy
I had read that previously, seems way biased in the quotes they selected by country, not the random selection I was expecting.
The Commish
Footballguy
Absolutely agree...made this point several times in this thread. I'm certainly doing my part.
The Commish
Footballguy
It has a lot to do with medical expenses. This "healthcare" issue is about expense and the threat of being sued more than anything. The availability is a symptom (and for some a choice).How the #### does tort reform have anything to do with anything in this thread? And you do realize there are three components of the government ledger right? Spending, growth AND revenue. Somehow you've singled out the only segment that Rush Limbaugh espouses, maybe its the only one that doesn't effect him?Show me that he's the exception to the ruleAre you really so desperate to make this both sides fault that you want to call tommy out because this individual trainer might be the exception to the rule? Could be the noise in the statistics? And if he happens to be the exception that pays out of pocket he is being greatly harmed by the vast majority of his fellow uninsured peers if he ever has any significant medical bills.The Commish said:
Is it reallyI don't care about sides so no, not desperate at all. All you jackals are out to separate yourselves from the other side rather than focus on the problems. Yes, it's bull#### to sling strawman arguments around while trying to suggest you don't (or at least not as much as the other guy). The dog and pony show in Washington is played out. Until they start curbing costs and working on tort reform, it's all just theatre to keep a job, not do a job.
Todd Andrews
Footballguy
Are you guys really trying to figure out why KooKs are shutting down the government?
THEY ARE KOOKS!
THEY ARE KOOKS!
I work in government (NYC) and sure there are worthless people. But there were also a lot of worthless people at the consulting firm I came from. Firing people isn't pleasant and most people try to avoid it, so they put up with the deadweight because it's easier and doesn't make them feel bad. The efficiency of the private sector is overstated.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
It's more like refusing to pay your credit card bill in order to balance your budget.
Actually, it's not "like" that at all -- it is exactly that.
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
Bad analogy, removing anything would be spending cuts.Matthias said:
dparker713
Footballguy
Except for the fact that tort reform for med mal does nothing but increase the bottom line of med mal insurance carriers. States that have passed such reforms have not seen a decrease in their med mal insurance costs, nor has it decreased their rate of premium increases, nor has it lowered their general costs.It has a lot to do with medical expenses. This "healthcare" issue is about expense and the threat of being sued more than anything. The availability is a symptom (and for some a choice).How the #### does tort reform have anything to do with anything in this thread? And you do realize there are three components of the government ledger right? Spending, growth AND revenue. Somehow you've singled out the only segment that Rush Limbaugh espouses, maybe its the only one that doesn't effect him?Show me that he's the exception to the ruleAre you really so desperate to make this both sides fault that you want to call tommy out because this individual trainer might be the exception to the rule? Could be the noise in the statistics? And if he happens to be the exception that pays out of pocket he is being greatly harmed by the vast majority of his fellow uninsured peers if he ever has any significant medical bills.The Commish said:
Is it really
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
The BAC analogy was better than your turd offering, you make it sound like repeatedly raising the debt ceiling is a GOOD thing.Matthias said:
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Exactly. The debt ceiling isn't the problem -- in fact, the "debt ceiling" shouldn't even exist in the first place. The problem is that government spending exceeds tax revenues. Raising the debt ceiling has no effect on either of those variables.wdcrob said:
The only purpose the debt ceiling serves is that in the hands of the wrong people (Congressional Republicans), it can be used as a tool to blow up the world. That's not very helpful for policymaking.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Raising the debt ceiling repeatedly is a good thing if the alternative is defaulting on the national debt. Raising the debt itself repeatedly is probably a bad thing, but increasing the debt without also increasing the debt ceiling is exponentially worse.
timschochet
Footballguy
It makes me EXTREMELY nervous that these guys continue to believe they can get concessions over the debt ceiling. If I am reading Obama right, that will not happen this time around. So I don't know how this resolves itself.jon_mx said:
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
5 digit know nothing said:
I had read that previously, seems way biased in the quotes they selected by country, not the random selection I was expecting.
Edit: This is the kind of thing that people used to make fun of Italy for doing, only this time we're Italy.
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Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Well...this is not entirely true. CIA, FBI, Border Control and countless civilians who have deployed to some crazy places have and continue to do so. I would never call any of them heroes, but they do put their lives on the line.jon_mx said:
You're right about a lot of the rest, but I've had one terrible employee in my tenure and I fired him. I have a few average employees, a few above average and one exceptional. There's some dead weight but I saw a lot in the private sector also when I worked in it, and I have a lot of friends who tell me stories about established folks in a business or corporation who hide or have enough corporate knowledge to get them by. The private sector isn't about firing people who are somewhat unproductive, firing anyone who isn't completely awful is usually tough. Show up on time, do the minimum and don't cause waves is the majority of the workforce IMO. Private or public.
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
Move the goal posts much? I never said defaulting was a good thing.Matthias said:
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
All my guys are back at work tomorrow!!!!! This is great news!
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
It's very easy to fire someone in the private sector. Private sector is all about making money and cutting dead weight. Most states offer no protection outside of discrimination when a company decides to fire someone.
5 digit know nothing
Footballguy
I had read that previously, seems way biased in the quotes they selected by country, not the random selection I was expecting.
Edit: This is the kind of thing that people used to make fun of Italy for doing, only this time we're Italy.
Of course not, they just fire everyone in the Senate and the House when this happens.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
I'm not talking about the regulations and laws of employment, I'm talking about the people aspect. There are a lot of marginal employees out there, and firing them takes more than just the legal latitude do so.
