The Tea Party is back in business! (1 Viewer)

[5 digit know nothing]

Deadlock

A must read. IMVHO.

The house may have the power of the purse. But the president holds the power of the Executive.

If you give the legislature both the power of the purse and the power of the Executive, then you’ve ipso facto destroyed the very checks and balances that keep our government from tyranny.

No matter that you be liberal or conservative, that you be a Democrat or a Republican, you do not want what follows if the President allows deadlock to become a precedent.

The President cannot give in.

And if you are truly an American, you don’t want him to.

Tim should have a field day with this one, you hit 2 out of his 3 triggers in Deadlock and Tyranny, if it included Black Helicopters I think he would explode.

 

[timschochet]

All my guys are back at work tomorrow!!!!! This is great news!

 

[timschochet]

So the main question is this: what will the Republicans do when it becomes clear that Obama will not make concessions in order to raise the debt ceiling either? Will they surrender, or allow things to blow up?

 

[timschochet]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/politico-live/2013/10/boehner-house-wont-raise-debt-ceiling-without-negotiations-174376.html

The House won't raise the debt ceiling without attaching other demands to the action, Speaker John Boehner said Sunday.

"We're not going to pass a clean debt limit increase," the Ohio Republican said on ABC's "This Week." " I told the president, there's no way we're going to pass one. The votes are not in the House to pass a clean debt limit. And the president is risking default by not having a conversation with us."

Boehner's comments come after reports last week that he's privately said he would hold a no-strings-attached vote to raise the debt ceiling in order to avoid default and its cascading negative effects.

"We're not going down that path" of passing a clean bill to raise the debt ceiling," he said. "It is time to deal with America's problems. How can you raise the debt limit and do nothing about the underlying problem?"

 

[timschochet]

The votes are not in the House to pass a clean debt limit.

Well, actually they are.

Why is Boehner doing this?

 

[timschochet]

So the main question is this: what will the Republicans do when it becomes clear that Obama will not make concessions in order to raise the debt ceiling either? Will they surrender, or allow things to blow up?

Boenher folds. He got his talking to last time.There's decent speculation that he'll drag out the shutdown long enough to fold them together so he only has to fold once.

Then why is he appearing on This Week and making firm statements that it won't happen?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

So the main question is this: what will the Republicans do when it becomes clear that Obama will not make concessions in order to raise the debt ceiling either? Will they surrender, or allow things to blow up?

Boenher folds. He got his talking to last time.There's decent speculation that he'll drag out the shutdown long enough to fold them together so he only has to fold once.

Then why is he appearing on This Week and making firm statements that it won't happen?

Because you don't go out there and announce today that you're going to fold two weeks from now.

 

[Mr. Pickles]

Its got to be some sort of record for a 30+ thread to have more posts from one guy than everyone else in the thread combined. This is like the Madden Franchise threads by that Raiders94 guy.

I think that was Hoard33.

Your notebook is better than this.

Riggins44?

 

[timschochet]

So the main question is this: what will the Republicans do when it becomes clear that Obama will not make concessions in order to raise the debt ceiling either? Will they surrender, or allow things to blow up?

Boenher folds. He got his talking to last time.There's decent speculation that he'll drag out the shutdown long enough to fold them together so he only has to fold once.

Then why is he appearing on This Week and making firm statements that it won't happen?

Because you don't go out there and announce today that you're going to fold two weeks from now.

He could have been a little bit less unequivocal, though. "The House is NOT going to pass a clean debt ceiling raise." He's put himself in a terrible situation, and he risks making the markets uncertain about the outcome.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

May have been posted already, sorry if it has: Is raising the debt ceiling to solve the financial issue kinda like raising the BAC to solve drunk driving?

No. It's like removing 5,000 pounds of TNT from a 2-alarm fire to keep it from getting any worse.

Bad analogy, removing anything would be spending cuts.

The analogy is fine.Go find some more craptastic #### off the internet to copy/paste.

The BAC analogy was better than your turd offering, you make it sound like repeatedly raising the debt ceiling is a GOOD thing.

Compared to defaulting on our debt? It is by a country mile.This whole shutdown is unnecessary and childish. But it's ultimately not a huge crisis. The US not increasing its debt ceiling in 2 weeks? Financial chaos. Anyone who doesn't realize that should probably sit this one out.

Move the goal posts much? I never said defaulting was a good thing.

Apparently you don't understand your own posts. Or you're just so programmed to do tough talk, tough talk, bull#### that you don't think that they have any meaning.

tough talk my ###Fix the damn problem, don't keep adding another floor, remove the new "TNT" being purchased each year that is causing us to add a new floor every few months. I never said this can be fixed in a week, it is you making that ridiculous assumption by bringing up default. Boehner himself says they will raise the debt ceiling but you need to curtail your spending, doesn't sound like a ridiculous offer. You on the other hand would just keep allowing your wife to keep applying for new credit cards rather than have a talk about her spending habits, brilliant!

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

"We're not going down that path" of passing a clean bill to raise the debt ceiling," he said. "It is time to deal with America's problems. How can you raise the debt limit and do nothing about the underlying problem?"

I don't really believe him that raising the debt ceiling will be accompanied by mass resignations.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

They are not putting their life on the line like firemen, police, military.

When did we privatize these jobs?

 

[Henry Ford]

There are also a whole lot of people who take jobs in the public sector, not for the security OR the pay, but because they believe in what they are doing. The workers at FEMA, and in the National Institute of Health, and in the Department of Education, and in Veterans Affairs, and in all sorts of other institutions, are dedicated servants of the public. Many of them work long hours and do not receive either the respect or the remuneration they deserve.

They are patriots and I admire them, and it astonishes me that there are actually people here who don't.

The problem is in the federal government it is not easy to fire someone. You end up with a few people pulling most of the weight. There are a lot of employees milking the system. There are a lot of dedicated employees. Federal government ends up with a lot of dead weight, more so than the private sector. Heros? I would not go that far. They are not putting their life on the line like firemen, police, military. They are doing their jobs. Some of them well, some of them are terrible.

My favorite part is where you contrast federal employees with real heroes, who are mostly federal employees.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

So the main question is this: what will the Republicans do when it becomes clear that Obama will not make concessions in order to raise the debt ceiling either? Will they surrender, or allow things to blow up?

Boenher folds. He got his talking to last time.There's decent speculation that he'll drag out the shutdown long enough to fold them together so he only has to fold once.

Once the admin and senate didn't blink was there another choice?

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) insisted Sunday on ABC's "This Week" that he won't bring up a "clean" debt limit increase under any circumstances, warning that the U.S. will default on its debt unless President Barack Obama agrees to make policy concessions."We're not going to pass a clean debt limit increase," he said. "I told the president, there's no way we're going to pass one. The votes are not in the House to pass a clean debt limit. And the president is risking default by not having a conversation with us."

 

[Christo]

Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) insisted Sunday on ABC's "This Week" that he won't bring up a "clean" debt limit increase under any circumstances, warning that the U.S. will default on its debt unless President Barack Obama agrees to make policy concessions."We're not going to pass a clean debt limit increase," he said. "I told the president, there's no way we're going to pass one. The votes are not in the House to pass a clean debt limit. And the president is risking default by not having a conversation with us."

Obama's response: Yet that hasn't stopped you from continually voting to repeal the ACA. So, Johnny. Give it a whirl and let's see what happens. Just once.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) insisted Sunday on ABC's "This Week" that he won't bring up a "clean" debt limit increase under any circumstances, warning that the U.S. will default on its debt unless President Barack Obama agrees to make policy concessions."We're not going to pass a clean debt limit increase," he said. "I told the president, there's no way we're going to pass one. The votes are not in the House to pass a clean debt limit. And the president is risking default by not having a conversation with us."

Obama's response: Yet that hasn't stopped you from continually voting to repeal the ACA. So, Johnny. Give it a whirl and let's see what happens. Just once.

So very true.

 

[snogger]

From CNN this morning:

One idea being considered to end the immediate fiscal impasse is a bill to fund the government and extend the nation's borrowing authority for six weeks, a senior Republican member of the House told CNN Chief Political Analyst Gloria Borger. The congressman agreed to speak with CNN on the condition of anonymity.

Since this funding was only until November any ways might as well get both out of the way for now..

But I did have to at the next quote:

The GOP lawmaker said a committee could then be set up to negotiate the fiscal issues dividing the two parties and negotiate a plan to keep the government funded for the rest of the year without the proverbial gun to their heads.This idea of an extension being floated among Republicans would give everyone a temporary political reprieve.

Yea "reprieve" is the word I'd use to.. Much better then a Political "Out".

 

[Mario Kart]

Come on you guys, get those phone calls into Reid to end this thing. You know you want to.

 

[[icon]]

"We're not going to pass a clean debt limit increase," he said. "I told the president, there's no way we're going to pass one. The votes are not in the House to pass a clean debt limit. And the president is risking default by not having a conversation with us."

This thread is going to be entertaining as hell this week

 

[Maelstrom]

What the rest of the world thinks about the US inability to govern: (It is Huffington post, but before the conservatives dismiss it, most of it is just quotes from world leaders and others around the world. Definitely worth a read regardless of ideology.)(In a spoiler tag so reduce scrolling on mobile)

Rest Of The World Thinks Congress Is A 'Laughing Stock' For Government Shutdown

Spoiler

WASHINGTON -- In the worlds greatest superpower, with the oldest constitutional democracy on Earth, American exceptionalism has struck again. The government shutdown that began this week has stunned the world. With tea party-aligned Republicans insisting any measure to fund the government be tied to defunding or delaying the Affordable Care Act, and Democrats unwilling to yield to their demands, gridlock and frustration have reached levels that only the American political system seems capable of achieving.While countries like Belize, Iran, Pakistan and Egypt face coups, revolutions, crippling debt, international sanctions, civil war and default, the threat of a government shutdown for them has never been a real one. As Georgetown University professor Erik Voeten writes in The Washington Post, "I cannot think of a single foreign analogy to what is happening in the U.S. today."Many of the worlds democracies function with parliamentary systems, and in cases of hopeless budget gridlock, the parliament is dissolved, new elections are held, and whole process starts over, writes Slate's Joshua Keating.Belgians in 2010 and 2011 went without an elected government for 589 days. But even then, budgets were passed, government workers were paid, and government services continued to be provided," writes Voeten.Not so in the U.S.In 1975, Australia faced a similar budget debacle, leading to a short government shutdown. Unlike the vitriolic battle of words that often takes place in the the U.S. political system, however, Australias governor general, Sir John Kerr, simply dismissed the prime minister. He appointed a replacement, who immediately passed the spending bill to fund the government. Three hours later, Kerr dismissed the rest of Parliament. Then Australia held elections to restart from scratch. And they haven't had another shutdown since, writes The Washington Post's Max Fisher.As the U.S. shutdown continues, national monuments and parks remain closed, hundreds of thousands of American workers go without pay, and federally funded social services for millions of women and children have ceased operating. Abroad, the world is caught between laughter and confusion as a superpower is paralyzed by its inability to overcome a relentless minority of lawmakers who have put the the entire government on the line to defund a health care law passed by Congress, signed by the president and upheld by the Supreme Court. America's political meltdown, an international embarrassment, has compromised the country's global image and credibility:China"With no political unity to redress its policy mistake, a dysfunctional Washington is now overspending the confidence in its leadership. -- XinhuaIndiaIn India, some business executives told VOA they could not understand how a country as developed as the United States could see its government shut down because of a legislative impasse. -- Voice of AmericaUnited KingdomIt is a risk to the world economy if the U.S. cant properly sort out its spending plans. -- Prime Minister David Cameron to BBC Radio 4s TodayFor most of the world, a government shutdown is very bad news - the result of revolution, invasion or disaster. Even in the middle of its ongoing civil war, the Syrian government has continued to pay its bills and workers wages. That leaders of one of the most powerful nations on earth willingly provoked a crisis that suspends public services and decreases economic growth is astonishing to many. Now, as the latest shutdown crisis plays out, policymakers in other nations are left to ponder the worldwide impact of the impasse. -- Anthony Zurcher, BBCThe last few weeks of paralysis on Capitol Hill have demonstrated a system apparently quite incapable of rational action and thought. Its not the economy thats the problem, but the government. -- The TelegraphMiddle East"The whole concept is little surreal for our readers, trying to understand why the No. 1 country in the world cannot pass a budget. I come from Lebanon and our parliament is very ineffective, but ludicrous as it sounds, it is better than U.S. Congress when it comes to passing budgets." -- Joyce Karam, Al-Hayat (via Dylan Scott, TPM report)Canada"This is a weird, messed-up feature of the American political system. I suppose the checks and balances obsession made sense 200 years ago. It makes no sense any longer. For a country that fancies itself the greatest democracy on Earth, the fact that a small band of outliers in one party can essentially shut down the federal government over a petty political brawl seems woefully undemocratic." -- Lee-Anne Goodman, Canadian Press (via TPM report)Canadians can only pray their economy won't be collateral damage. Anything that drags down the American economy drags the Canadian economy down with it." -- John Ibbitson, Globe and Mail (via Washington Times)MexicoInstead they [u.S. officials] squabble over the inconsequential accomplishment of a 10-week funding extension. It isnt serious, but it certainly isnt funny. -- The NewsFranceThis Republic was founded on a majority opinion of centrists from both major parties of the country. Over the years, this has stalled. American democracy works worse and worse. The American politicians supposed to lead the most powerful nation in the world are becoming a laughing stock. -- Le Monde (via ThinkProgress)The idea that on a given date, at a specific time, overnight, the state may be partly disconnected would appear to be unthinkable. Something from science fiction, or simple madness. -- Nicolas Demorand, Libération (via The New York Times )AustraliaThe reality that another round of misplaced fiscal brinkmanship in Washington is undermining confidence in America's own economic recovery and that of the global, post-GFC economy that depends so heavily on it neither does it say much for the budgetary processes in the world's largest economy. Using Obamacare as the battering ram in the Republican campaign against the President is both irresponsible and damaging for the U.S. and the global economy. -- The AustralianGermanyA superpower has paralyzed itself. -- Der Spiegel OnlineA small group of uncompromising Republican ideologues in the House of Representatives are principally responsive for this disaster. They are not only taking their own party to the brink, but the whole country. Unfortunately the leadership of this party has neither had the courage nor the backbone to put them in their place. --Die ZieltWhat America is currently exhibiting is the worst kind of absurd theatrics and the whole world is being held hostage. -- Bild (via ThinkProgress)"What Washington currently offers up is a spectacle, but one in which the spectators feel more like crying. The public is left wondering how things could have been allowed to get to this point and why there is so much poison in the system" --Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung.Japan"Personally I think it's an international embarrassment. It's just another sign of the declining U.S. influence around the world and a sign of the very divisive extremist politics that have become prominent here. There's no civilized discourse that I can see." -- Elliot Waldman, Tokyo Broadcasting Co. (via TPM report)Sweden"Not being able to fund a law or do such a fundamental thing as a budget is worrying for a nation, and somewhat crazy for a democracy like the U.S." -- Sanna Toren Bjorling, Dagens Nyheter (via TPM report)Norway"It's to us Norwegians hard to understand that it can be happening in one of the most influential countries in the world that you can have such a dysfunctional government. It is kind of joke or disbelief. We laugh about it. How is it possible at all? Why would they do that?" -- Anders Tvegard, Norwegian Broadcasting Corp. (via TPM report)Spain"It's a bit shocking, and I would say sometimes even embarrassing, coming from the best democracy. -- Lorenzo Mila, Television Espanola (via TPM report)

I had read that previously, seems way biased in the quotes they selected by country, not the random selection I was expecting.

Who else should they have talked to? Are there people around the world saying that they think what is going on here is a good thing? I'm guessing there isn't a very large selection of quotes from the "other" side, if any.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Come on you guys, get those phone calls into Reid to end this thing. You know you want to.

stop deflecting.

 

[timschochet]

"We're not going to pass a clean debt limit increase," he said. "I told the president, there's no way we're going to pass one. The votes are not in the House to pass a clean debt limit. And the president is risking default by not having a conversation with us."

This thread is going to be entertaining as hell this week

Entertaining yes.

But it's also scary as hell. If the debt ceiling isn't raised...

 

[cstu]

Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) insisted Sunday on ABC's "This Week" that he won't bring up a "clean" debt limit increase under any circumstances, warning that the U.S. will default on its debt unless President Barack Obama agrees to make policy concessions.

"We're not going to pass a clean debt limit increase," he said. "I told the president, there's no way we're going to pass one. The votes are not in the House to pass a clean debt limit. And the president is risking default by not having a conversation with us."

I don't understand how a country can be run so that members of Congress aren't even allowed to vote on a bill to open up government. If Boehner believes so strongly that a clean bill would fail then what is he afraid of?

 

[cstu]

" post="16035693" timestamp="1381077289"]

"We're not going to pass a clean debt limit increase," he said. "I told the president, there's no way we're going to pass one. The votes are not in the House to pass a clean debt limit. And the president is risking default by not having a conversation with us."

This thread is going to be entertaining as hell this week

Entertaining yes.

But it's also scary as hell. If the debt ceiling isn't raised...

If he has to Obama will raise it on his own:

That's where Section 4 of the 14th Amendment comes in: "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law ... shall not be questioned."

 

[greenroom]

Come on you guys, get those phone calls into Reid to end this thing. You know you want to.

Yes I am calling to tell him to stick with the plan of not giving into the Republicans. How about you call John B to see if he can put the vote up and lets see really how the "people" will vote. I have a feeling it passes and they have the vote, but it does not meet the Republicans goal of trying to get something for nothing.

 

[timschochet]

Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) insisted Sunday on ABC's "This Week" that he won't bring up a "clean" debt limit increase under any circumstances, warning that the U.S. will default on its debt unless President Barack Obama agrees to make policy concessions.

"We're not going to pass a clean debt limit increase," he said. "I told the president, there's no way we're going to pass one. The votes are not in the House to pass a clean debt limit. And the president is risking default by not having a conversation with us."

I don't understand how a country can be run so that members of Congress aren't even allowed to vote on a bill to open up government. If Boehner believes so strongly that a clean bill would fail then what is he afraid of?

He's afraid of the Tea Party. The entire Republican leadership is afraid, and paralyzed. It's pathetic.

 

[Slapdash]

There is going to be a vote today to decide if furloughed workers will receive back pay. It is expected to pass. So basically, this is a paid vacation for Federal workers. Even if they don't have money in savings, buying necessities with a credit card would allow someone to manage through this shutdown.

Just another benefit of a government job.

You want people to go into credit card debt because their politicians are sore losers? #### you.

Slapdash, you're either joking, or stupid. How would they go into debt? They would only use the credit card as a short term loan until they are given back pay. Then they would payoff the balance Plus they would earn points for a free flight the next time the gov't shuts down.

You're the one complaining about them getting backpay

 

[Maelstrom]

There is going to be a vote today to decide if furloughed workers will receive back pay. It is expected to pass. So basically, this is a paid vacation for Federal workers. Even if they don't have money in savings, buying necessities with a credit card would allow someone to manage through this shutdown.

Just another benefit of a government job.

You want people to go into credit card debt because their politicians are sore losers? #### you.

Slapdash, you're either joking, or stupid. How would they go into debt? They would only use the credit card as a short term loan until they are given back pay. Then they would payoff the balance Plus they would earn points for a free flight the next time the gov't shuts down.

What about people that don't have credit cards? What about those that don't have credit cards with a limit capable of covering a few weeks worth of expenses. Granted, I firmly believe people should have an emergency account so they don't have to rely on CCs, but it's pretty clear that many Americans don't carry enough.

 

[dparker713]

May have been posted already, sorry if it has: Is raising the debt ceiling to solve the financial issue kinda like raising the BAC to solve drunk driving?

No. It's like removing 5,000 pounds of TNT from a 2-alarm fire to keep it from getting any worse.

Bad analogy, removing anything would be spending cuts.

The analogy is fine.Go find some more craptastic #### off the internet to copy/paste.

The BAC analogy was better than your turd offering, you make it sound like repeatedly raising the debt ceiling is a GOOD thing.

Compared to defaulting on our debt? It is by a country mile.This whole shutdown is unnecessary and childish. But it's ultimately not a huge crisis. The US not increasing its debt ceiling in 2 weeks? Financial chaos. Anyone who doesn't realize that should probably sit this one out.

Move the goal posts much? I never said defaulting was a good thing.

Apparently you don't understand your own posts. Or you're just so programmed to do tough talk, tough talk, bull#### that you don't think that they have any meaning.

tough talk my ###Fix the damn problem, don't keep adding another floor, remove the new "TNT" being purchased each year that is causing us to add a new floor every few months. I never said this can be fixed in a week, it is you making that ridiculous assumption by bringing up default. Boehner himself says they will raise the debt ceiling but you need to curtail your spending, doesn't sound like a ridiculous offer. You on the other hand would just keep allowing your wife to keep applying for new credit cards rather than have a talk about her spending habits, brilliant!

Again, you do realize there is more to balancing a budget than just spending, right?

 

[TxBuckeye]

There is going to be a vote today to decide if furloughed workers will receive back pay. It is expected to pass. So basically, this is a paid vacation for Federal workers. Even if they don't have money in savings, buying necessities with a credit card would allow someone to manage through this shutdown.

Just another benefit of a government job.

Why shouldn't they get back pay? They didn't decide to not come to work. They were told to stay home because of an ineffectual government. Not their fault. They shouldn't be punished because their elected officials are acting like spoiled children. If you don't like them getting paid to stay home, then let the government official you voted for know that you want him to get off his rear and do his job.

 

[[icon]]

There is going to be a vote today to decide if furloughed workers will receive back pay. It is expected to pass. So basically, this is a paid vacation for Federal workers. Even if they don't have money in savings, buying necessities with a credit card would allow someone to manage through this shutdown.

Just another benefit of a government job.

Why shouldn't they get back pay? They didn't decide to not come to work. They were told to stay home because of an ineffectual government. Not their fault. They shouldn't be punished because their elected officials are acting like spoiled children. If you don't like them getting paid to stay home, then let the government official you voted for know that you want him to get off his rear and do his job.

My girl was furloughed for a 6 month stretch where she took a 20% paycut and was told not to come to work on Fridays.

I assume since she wanted to go to work, you feel she is owed back pay then?

 

[TxBuckeye]

" post="16036473" timestamp="1381084477"]
My girl was furloughed for a 6 month stretch where she took a 20% paycut and was told not to come to work on Fridays.

I assume since she wanted to go to work, you feel she is owed back pay then?

Did she want to go to work, and her boss wanted her to come to work, but she wasn't allowed to because an ineffectual government couldn't do the job they were elected to do? If so, then yes, absolutely.

 

[The Commish]

Astute observations Chaz. The problem is that it's not just Ted Cruz and a few looney morons. A large % of Americans are completely clueless as to how the gov't runs, and they liken gov't debt, deficits, and the budget to their own household debt, deficit, and budgets. See icon's thread about "OMG DEBT!!!!!!!"

The tea party morons aren't just a fringe radical group, their ideas are supported by the majority of the base of the party. That's why we're in this debacle, and John Boehner won't call them out.

Didn't you mean the majority of Americans? I know you get off calling everyone else stupid, but if you can't spot the sucker...

My gym trainer was asking me about the government shutdown so I filled him in. Then I asked him if he was familiar with the ACA (aka Obamacare), he said he heard of it. I knew he didn't have health insurance so I asked him, did you know if you don't sign up for it they are going to fine you, starting at about $100 and ramping up to $700 in two years and that his alternative to pay for it would run him about $4k? His response, "#### that", and no he didn't know that. So while the masses may not be as educated as TGunz, the word is not getting out there in terms of just how bad this is going to be for a lot of Americans.

So your trainer is either going to have to get health insurance or he'll be force to contribute to the insurance society is already paying for him that he is currently shirking on.

How is this bad for a lot of Americans again?

See...this is some of the utter bull#### that the left spews....yeah it's just one side that does this crap. How the hell do you know he doesn't pay his bills out of pocket??

Are you really so desperate to make this both sides fault that you want to call tommy out because this individual trainer might be the exception to the rule? Could be the noise in the statistics? And if he happens to be the exception that pays out of pocket he is being greatly harmed by the vast majority of his fellow uninsured peers if he ever has any significant medical bills.

Is it really that tommy believes that this "calculated risk" is one that places society in too much of harms way to be allowable? (I didn't ask if you agreed with tommy, just whether it was a reasonable position to take?) I

Show me that he's the exception to the rule I don't care about sides so no, not desperate at all. All you jackals are out to separate yourselves from the other side rather than focus on the problems. Yes, it's bull#### to sling strawman arguments around while trying to suggest you don't (or at least not as much as the other guy). The dog and pony show in Washington is played out. Until they start curbing costs and working on tort reform, it's all just theatre to keep a job, not do a job.

How the #### does tort reform have anything to do with anything in this thread? And you do realize there are three components of the government ledger right? Spending, growth AND revenue. Somehow you've singled out the only segment that Rush Limbaugh espouses, maybe its the only one that doesn't effect him?

It has a lot to do with medical expenses. This "healthcare" issue is about expense and the threat of being sued more than anything. The availability is a symptom (and for some a choice).

Except for the fact that tort reform for med mal does nothing but increase the bottom line of med mal insurance carriers. States that have passed such reforms have not seen a decrease in their med mal insurance costs, nor has it decreased their rate of premium increases, nor has it lowered their general costs.

I think I've sufficiently documented the poor implementations of "reform" in prior threads. Because it's been done wrong in the past isn't evidence that, when done correctly, it won't help tremendously.

 

[jonessed]

Come on you guys, get those phone calls into Reid to end this thing. You know you want to.

Yes I am calling to tell him to stick with the plan of not giving into the Republicans. How about you call John B to see if he can put the vote up and lets see really how the "people" will vote. I have a feeling it passes and they have the vote, but it does not meet the Republicans goal of trying to get something for nothing.

Sweet. Lets all default together. We can point fingers over the rubble.

Maybe those crazies prepping for Armageddon weren't so crazy after all.

 

[Mario Kart]

Come on you guys, get those phone calls into Reid to end this thing. You know you want to.

Yes I am calling to tell him to stick with the plan of not giving into the Republicans. How about you call John B to see if he can put the vote up and lets see really how the "people" will vote. I have a feeling it passes and they have the vote, but it does not meet the Republicans goal of trying to get something for nothing.

"Why would he do that?"

 

[dparker713]

Astute observations Chaz. The problem is that it's not just Ted Cruz and a few looney morons. A large % of Americans are completely clueless as to how the gov't runs, and they liken gov't debt, deficits, and the budget to their own household debt, deficit, and budgets. See icon's thread about "OMG DEBT!!!!!!!"

The tea party morons aren't just a fringe radical group, their ideas are supported by the majority of the base of the party. That's why we're in this debacle, and John Boehner won't call them out.

Didn't you mean the majority of Americans? I know you get off calling everyone else stupid, but if you can't spot the sucker...

My gym trainer was asking me about the government shutdown so I filled him in. Then I asked him if he was familiar with the ACA (aka Obamacare), he said he heard of it. I knew he didn't have health insurance so I asked him, did you know if you don't sign up for it they are going to fine you, starting at about $100 and ramping up to $700 in two years and that his alternative to pay for it would run him about $4k? His response, "#### that", and no he didn't know that. So while the masses may not be as educated as TGunz, the word is not getting out there in terms of just how bad this is going to be for a lot of Americans.

So your trainer is either going to have to get health insurance or he'll be force to contribute to the insurance society is already paying for him that he is currently shirking on.

How is this bad for a lot of Americans again?

See...this is some of the utter bull#### that the left spews....yeah it's just one side that does this crap. How the hell do you know he doesn't pay his bills out of pocket??

Are you really so desperate to make this both sides fault that you want to call tommy out because this individual trainer might be the exception to the rule? Could be the noise in the statistics? And if he happens to be the exception that pays out of pocket he is being greatly harmed by the vast majority of his fellow uninsured peers if he ever has any significant medical bills.

Is it really that tommy believes that this "calculated risk" is one that places society in too much of harms way to be allowable? (I didn't ask if you agreed with tommy, just whether it was a reasonable position to take?) I

Show me that he's the exception to the rule I don't care about sides so no, not desperate at all. All you jackals are out to separate yourselves from the other side rather than focus on the problems. Yes, it's bull#### to sling strawman arguments around while trying to suggest you don't (or at least not as much as the other guy). The dog and pony show in Washington is played out. Until they start curbing costs and working on tort reform, it's all just theatre to keep a job, not do a job.

How the #### does tort reform have anything to do with anything in this thread? And you do realize there are three components of the government ledger right? Spending, growth AND revenue. Somehow you've singled out the only segment that Rush Limbaugh espouses, maybe its the only one that doesn't effect him?

It has a lot to do with medical expenses. This "healthcare" issue is about expense and the threat of being sued more than anything. The availability is a symptom (and for some a choice).

Except for the fact that tort reform for med mal does nothing but increase the bottom line of med mal insurance carriers. States that have passed such reforms have not seen a decrease in their med mal insurance costs, nor has it decreased their rate of premium increases, nor has it lowered their general costs.

I think I've sufficiently documented the poor implementations of "reform" in prior threads. Because it's been done wrong in the past isn't evidence that, when done correctly, it won't help tremendously.

 

[rascal]

paid vacation is over, report to work tomorrow.

 

[[icon]]

I realize this is fox news... but...

are we really trying to justify closing off access to the ocean? It sounds like we're spending more money policing the people to keep them from using stuff that they had to close because of money concerns?

Gotta love the intimidation tactics by our government

 

[Mario Kart]

I realize this is fox news... but...

are we really trying to justify closing off access to the ocean? It sounds like we're spending more money policing the people to keep them from using stuff that they had to close because of money concerns?

Gotta love the intimidation tactics by our government

This land is your land. This land is my land. Until our government says it is not anymore. And, they just did.

What power have we "given" our government to have such control over us? Sadly "given" <> "allowed"

 

[tommyGunZ]

I realize this is fox news... but...

are we really trying to justify closing off access to the ocean? It sounds like we're spending more money policing the people to keep them from using stuff that they had to close because of money concerns?

Gotta love the intimidation tactics by our government

Do you have any numbers to back up this claim?

 

[TxBuckeye]

This is all such a red herring. There's situational "vacations" in the private sector as well. The power went out in the office. It's a blizzard and nobody can get in. Your flight got cancelled and you're stuck in some other town for the next day. Nobody ever suggests that you should be using vacation days and/or not collecting your salary because you were unable to work on those days.

The furlough is a little bit different. That's a planned work reduction.

This isn't a true furlough. A few months ago there was a furlough, a temporary reduction in the work force to save dollars. The people were stuck at home this time because of a government shutdown. It had nothing to do with saving money through reduced work hours. To be honest, I don't know why they are using the term furlough. It isn't technically correct. It's simply a government shutdown, not a furlough.

p.s. After re-reading your post, I think you are saying the same thing.

 

[Maelstrom]

When it comes to the shutdown, it is mandated that services be shut down, even IF that shutdown costs more than it would cost to keep it up. A case in point is some of the government websites that are shut down - some of them required extra programming to "shut" them down because they added pages telling people they were shut down, and the servers hosting the websites are still running because they have to be up for other essential services.

It is wasteful, and I put that on the entire system.

 

[[icon]]

At this point I'm hoping this goes on for another week or so. It's really doing a decent job of keeping the politards on both sides busy with the hand wringing in here. The rest of the FFA has been pretty enjoyable.

 

[dparker713]

I realize this is fox news... but...

are we really trying to justify closing off access to the ocean? It sounds like we're spending more money policing the people to keep them from using stuff that they had to close because of money concerns?

Gotta love the intimidation tactics by our government

This land is your land. This land is my land. Until our government says it is not anymore. And, they just did.

What power have we "given" our government to have such control over us? Sadly "given" <> "allowed"

Congress has plenary powers over federal lands, so whatever they do with federal lands is allowed.

 

[Maelstrom]

At this point I'm hoping this goes on for another week or so. It's really doing a decent job of keeping the politards on both sides busy with the hand wringing in here. The rest of the FFA has been pretty enjoyable.

There should either be a Politics subforum. I don't like the single thread idea some have floated (too confusing, and it eliminates the chance to have a focused conversation about a single topic...ahahaha...what am I saying, when has a politics thread ever stayed focused)

 

[timschochet]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/06/gop-house-2014-polls_n_4050686.html?ref=topbar

Shutting down the government may end up costing Republicans control of the House of Representatives.

A series of polls released Sunday show just how damaging the shutdown has been for the GOP. The liberal-leaning Public Policy Polling compiled two dozen surveys, commissioned and paid for by MoveOn.org Political Action, from House districts around the country, taken from Oct. 2 through Oct. 4. Sample sizes were between 600 and 700 voters in each district.

For Democrats to win a House majority, 17 seats would need to switch to their party's favor. Results show that would be within reach, as Republican incumbents are behind in 17 of the districts analyzed: CA-31, CO-06, FL-02, FL-10, FL-13, IA-03, IA-04, IL-13, KY-06, MI-01, MI-07, MI-11, NY-19, OH-14, PA-07, PA-08, WI-07. In four districts, the incumbent Republican fell behind after respondents were told their representative supported the government shutdown: CA-10, NY-11, NY-23, VA-02. Three districts saw GOP incumbents maintain their hold over their Democratic challengers, even after hearing their elected officials' views on the shutdown, including CA-21, NV-03 and OH-06.

 

[timschochet]

Yesterday I was called a POS for implying that most independents, moderates, and Democrats believe that the Tea Party is both crazy and extremist. From Buzz Feed:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppins/where-ted-cruz-is-coming-from

From its genesis in 2009, the Tea Party movement has been fueled by the rhetoric of revolution. True believers attend rallies unironically dressed in colonial garb. Their early organizers preached earnestly from Saul Alinsky’s left-wing activist handbook Rules For Radicals — a book that advises just the sort of procedural disruption they’ve imposed this week. And while Nevada Senate candidate Sharon Angle outraged mainstream political observers when she suggested people may start looking for “Second Amendment remedies” to the country’s problems, one recent survey showed that nearly half of Republicans believe armed insurrection might be necessary “in the next few years.”

These are the people that are holding the Republican leadership in fear, and whom Obama and the Democrats are supposed to work with.

 

[Riversco]

Its got to be some sort of record for a 30+ thread to have more posts from one guy than everyone else in the thread combined. This is like the Madden Franchise threads by that Raiders94 guy.

How can you see how many posts people have in a thread?

 

[[icon]]

Yesterday I was called a POS for implying that most independents, moderates, and Democrats believe that the Tea Party is both crazy and extremist. From Buzz Feed:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppins/where-ted-cruz-is-coming-from

From its genesis in 2009, the Tea Party movement has been fueled by the rhetoric of revolution. True believers attend rallies unironically dressed in colonial garb. Their early organizers preached earnestly from Saul Alinsky’s left-wing activist handbook Rules For Radicals — a book that advises just the sort of procedural disruption they’ve imposed this week. And while Nevada Senate candidate Sharon Angle outraged mainstream political observers when she suggested people may start looking for “Second Amendment remedies” to the country’s problems, one recent survey showed that nearly half of Republicans believe armed insurrection might be necessary “in the next few years.”

These are the people that are holding the Republican leadership in fear, and whom Obama and the Democrats are supposed to work with.