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The Tea Party is back in business! (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
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Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
roadkill1292
Footballguy
So really, armed rebellion is being considered because a minority of the population doesn't like that the majority is gravitating towards single payer health care?
My new world order has a lot bigger agenda than that.
My new world order has a lot bigger agenda than that.
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
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Insoxicated
This.
Before I'm painted as some paranoid conspiracy theorist (since that's what they do best in here), I'll RE-state that all of my weapons are dual purpose for sporting use (competitive sport shooting, IDPA, hunting, etc) but also double as self/home defense. I have short range (Shotguns w/ 18.5" & 28" barrels), and long range assault (Colt AR-15) rifles as well as an assortment of handguns, plus plenty of magazines and ammunition for all.
I also keep a few cases of MREs, some water, and basic necessities in a guest room closet in event services are interrupted (almost were during the MS flood 3 years ago, and likely will be when the New Madrid fault finally releases. If nothing ever necessitates their need, then it's of minimal inconvenience to be prepared. I also have quite a few good friends who are much more "prepared" than I that I would likely network together with in the highly unlikely chance of a SHTF event.
I'm certainly not stockpiling for Custer's last stand and am under no delusions (nor intention) of taking on the government as some of the dummies in here like to imply. There certainly are plenty of "that type" around though. That said, if things do somehow destabilize (unlikely), I've got the means to not be low hanging fruit, and the means to "get outta dodge" (capable vehicle, camping gear, etc) for a bit if that's not enough. Most of my camping gear is dual purpose as well as it's used a half dozen weekends a year recreationally. Thankfully I'm hopeful and fairly confident it won't ever come to any of this, though.
Such a great song.
Wow. I love the "if you're not with us, you're a racist" play. I used to think you were a fairly intelligent poster but damn....
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Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
You're delusional if you think the American public wants Obamacare, but please continue hurling insults when you can't prove a simple point. It's people like you that degrade these boards.Matthias said:
The only thing that is going to destroy our economy is if we don't fix our current budget nightmare.
When the Bleeding Heart Becomes the Iron Fist
http://ricochet.com/main-feed/When-The-Bleeding-Heart-Becomes-The-Iron-Fist
http://ricochet.com/main-feed/When-The-Bleeding-Heart-Becomes-The-Iron-Fist
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
as much of the public that wanted the democrats to shut down the government to fund obamacareMatthias said:
timschochet
Footballguy
Good morning. Part of the reason this shutdown is continuing is because conservatives are deluding themselves that they are winning public opinion. Here is an example, Erik Erickson's Red State Blog: http://www.redstate.com/2013/10/07/obamacare-or-the-debt-ceiling/
Republicans are winning the shutdown fight, and Democrats know it.
The polls are shifting against the Democrats.
Both of these statements are entirely false. But, just as many conservatives were extremely confident until the last moment that Romney would crush Obama, they seem to be lying to themselves here. This is one of the inevitable results when you ignore the mainstream media as "liberally biased" and receive all your news from FOX and right wing talk show hosts and bloggers like Erickson. They live in their own cocoon.
Republicans are winning the shutdown fight, and Democrats know it.
The polls are shifting against the Democrats.
Both of these statements are entirely false. But, just as many conservatives were extremely confident until the last moment that Romney would crush Obama, they seem to be lying to themselves here. This is one of the inevitable results when you ignore the mainstream media as "liberally biased" and receive all your news from FOX and right wing talk show hosts and bloggers like Erickson. They live in their own cocoon.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
I don't think so. I'm not neutral on everything. I'm saying in this case I think both sides are doing wrong. And I don't have blinders on. I'm simply saying that I have no desire to argue politics on the Internet. Mainly because no one's mind will be changed.
cstu
Footballguy
The American public voted to elect people that would pass Obamacare and keep it. If it was such a concern to Americans they would have elected a Republican President.
cstu
Footballguy
My mind has been changed on a lot of things from listening to people here. I still haven't heard a convincing argument that this is the Democrats fault, other than they should give up something that has been the dream of the Party for decades.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
72% of Americans say that shutting down government to defund Obamacare is a bad idea. Only 25% support it.
Roughly the same percentage of people voted to elect a Republican president. And the people that are doing this were elected to do this.
Aerial Assault
Footballguy
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
I wonder how many libs would still support Obamacare if they got this letter in the mail?
Sticker Shock: Californians suddenly discover why all the Republican shouting over #Obamacare. By: Moe Lane (Diary) | October 6th, 2013 at 11:00 AM | 59
RESIZE:AAA
“I was laughing at Boehner — until the mail came today,” Waschura said, referring to House Speaker John Boehner, who is leading the Republican charge to defund Obamacare.
“I really don’t like the Republican tactics, but at least now I can understand why they are so pissed about this. When you take $10,000 out of my family’s pocket each year, that’s otherwise disposable income or retirement savings that will not be going into our local economy.”
Sticker Shock: Californians suddenly discover why all the Republican shouting over #Obamacare. By: Moe Lane (Diary) | October 6th, 2013 at 11:00 AM | 59
RESIZE:AAA
And BOOM goes the dynamite.
Meet Tom Waschura, Californian, father of two – oh, and right: Obama supporter. Just got a letter from his healthcare provider telling him that his private health insurance just went up by ten grand a year:“I was laughing at Boehner — until the mail came today,” Waschura said, referring to House Speaker John Boehner, who is leading the Republican charge to defund Obamacare.
“I really don’t like the Republican tactics, but at least now I can understand why they are so pissed about this. When you take $10,000 out of my family’s pocket each year, that’s otherwise disposable income or retirement savings that will not be going into our local economy.”
timschochet
Footballguy
Fascinating Raw Story article about the Republican base:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/05/to-understand-the-shutdown-you-have-to-grasp-the-mindset-of-the-republican-base/
It’s widely understood that the government has been shut down by a relatively small number of Republican lawmakers who represent deeply red districts. They’re insulated from public opinion at large. They don’t fear a general election loss to a Democrat; they’re motivated by avoiding a primary challenger from their right flank.
So to fully understand what’s driving the Republican Party’s brinkmanship, one has to look at the motivations of its base voters – how they see the world around them. This lies at the heart of what’s happening in the Capitol today.
Democracy Corps – a Democratic-leaning polling firm – released a study this week based on a series of focus groups they conducted with loyal Republican voters. They divided them up into three sub-groups which together represent the base of the party. Evangelicals represent the largest group, followed by Republicans who identify with the tea party movement. “Moderates,” the third group, make up about a quarter of the party’s base, according to the pollsters.
Fear of a changing society is one thing that unites all three factions. The battle over Obamacare, write the study’s authors, “goes to the heart of Republican base thinking about the essential political battle.”
They think they face a victorious Democratic Party that is intent on expanding government to increase dependency and therefore electoral support. It starts with food stamps and unemployment benefits; expands further if you legalize the illegals; but insuring the uninsured dramatically grows those dependent on government. They believe this is an electoral strategy — not just a political ideology or economic philosophy. If Obamacare happens, the Republican Party may be lost, in their view.
And while few explicitly talk about Obama in racial terms, the base supporters are very conscious of being white in a country with growing minorities. Their party is losing to a Democratic Party of big government whose goal is to expand programs that mainly benefit minorities. Race remains very much alive in the politics of the Republican Party.
They worry that minorities, immigrants, and welfare recipients now believe it is their “right” to claim [public] benefits. Tea Party participants, in particular, were very focused on those who claim “rights” in the form of government services, without taking responsibility for themselves.
They are also unified in their belief that Obama is a usurper who has hoodwinked the public into re-electing him by hiding his true beliefs, which are essentially Marxist. They also think that Democrats have won the major political battles of our time because Republican legislators in Washington didn’t put up a fight.
But there are also deep divisions within the base, according to the analysis. Evangelicals still focus overwhelmingly on social issues. They think gay rights are the biggest threat to our society, but they also worry about the loss of what they see as an idyllic small-town culture. They feel besieged as the cultural ground shifts beneath them, and see themselves as a beleaguered, “politically incorrect” minority.
Tea partiers display a libertarian streak, and are far less concerned with social issues. They are staunchly pro-business. But there’s an easy alliance between these two groups – which make up well over half of the GOP base – because Evangelicals think the tea partiers are fighting back, and vice versa.
Both groups displayed a high level of paranoia, according to the researchers who conducted the study. They noted that this was the first time, in many years of conducting focus groups, that participants worried that their participation might trigger surveillance by the NSA or an audit by the IRS. In addition to thinking that Obama is a liar, and a covert Communist, these two groups were also more likely to express the belief that he is secretly a Muslim.
The moderates were, as one might expect, quite different. Like the tea partiers, they don’t worry as much about social issues. Their concerns are traditionally conservative – they worry about excessive regulation and taxation. They have a hard time taking Fox News seriously, and hold a deep disdain for the tea party faction. They are also keenly aware of their waning influence within the coalition.
Moderates are not so sure about their place in the current Republican Party. They worry about the ability of Republicans in Congress to make government work. They believe the party is stuck, not forward-looking, and representative of old ideas. They worry about the Republican Party’s right turn on social and environmental issues — which makes it difficult, especially for young moderates — to view the Republican Party as a modern party.
Unlike the tea partiers and Evangelicals, the moderate faction desperately wants lawmakers in Washington to find a common middle ground. They are less likely to worry about unauthorized immigration than the rest of the base, and some went so far as to speak positively about immigrants’ contributions to our society and economy.
Climate change is another dividing line between moderate Republicans and the hard-right. GOP moderates may be unsure of the science on climate change, but they don’t reject it out of hand, and some are legitimately worried about the effects of a changing climate.
In this, they stand out from the Evangelical and tea party wings. The study’s authors write:
Moderates are not even in the same conversation as Evangelicals who deeply doubt scientists writ large and Tea Party Republicans who are consumed by the big government and regulations that inevitably result from climate science.
Evangelicals and Tea Party Republicans share and are consumed by skepticism about climate science — to the point where they mistrust scientists before they begin to speak.
The whole study is fascinating. You can read it here.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/05/to-understand-the-shutdown-you-have-to-grasp-the-mindset-of-the-republican-base/
It’s widely understood that the government has been shut down by a relatively small number of Republican lawmakers who represent deeply red districts. They’re insulated from public opinion at large. They don’t fear a general election loss to a Democrat; they’re motivated by avoiding a primary challenger from their right flank.
So to fully understand what’s driving the Republican Party’s brinkmanship, one has to look at the motivations of its base voters – how they see the world around them. This lies at the heart of what’s happening in the Capitol today.
Democracy Corps – a Democratic-leaning polling firm – released a study this week based on a series of focus groups they conducted with loyal Republican voters. They divided them up into three sub-groups which together represent the base of the party. Evangelicals represent the largest group, followed by Republicans who identify with the tea party movement. “Moderates,” the third group, make up about a quarter of the party’s base, according to the pollsters.
Fear of a changing society is one thing that unites all three factions. The battle over Obamacare, write the study’s authors, “goes to the heart of Republican base thinking about the essential political battle.”
They think they face a victorious Democratic Party that is intent on expanding government to increase dependency and therefore electoral support. It starts with food stamps and unemployment benefits; expands further if you legalize the illegals; but insuring the uninsured dramatically grows those dependent on government. They believe this is an electoral strategy — not just a political ideology or economic philosophy. If Obamacare happens, the Republican Party may be lost, in their view.
And while few explicitly talk about Obama in racial terms, the base supporters are very conscious of being white in a country with growing minorities. Their party is losing to a Democratic Party of big government whose goal is to expand programs that mainly benefit minorities. Race remains very much alive in the politics of the Republican Party.
They worry that minorities, immigrants, and welfare recipients now believe it is their “right” to claim [public] benefits. Tea Party participants, in particular, were very focused on those who claim “rights” in the form of government services, without taking responsibility for themselves.
They are also unified in their belief that Obama is a usurper who has hoodwinked the public into re-electing him by hiding his true beliefs, which are essentially Marxist. They also think that Democrats have won the major political battles of our time because Republican legislators in Washington didn’t put up a fight.
But there are also deep divisions within the base, according to the analysis. Evangelicals still focus overwhelmingly on social issues. They think gay rights are the biggest threat to our society, but they also worry about the loss of what they see as an idyllic small-town culture. They feel besieged as the cultural ground shifts beneath them, and see themselves as a beleaguered, “politically incorrect” minority.
Tea partiers display a libertarian streak, and are far less concerned with social issues. They are staunchly pro-business. But there’s an easy alliance between these two groups – which make up well over half of the GOP base – because Evangelicals think the tea partiers are fighting back, and vice versa.
Both groups displayed a high level of paranoia, according to the researchers who conducted the study. They noted that this was the first time, in many years of conducting focus groups, that participants worried that their participation might trigger surveillance by the NSA or an audit by the IRS. In addition to thinking that Obama is a liar, and a covert Communist, these two groups were also more likely to express the belief that he is secretly a Muslim.
The moderates were, as one might expect, quite different. Like the tea partiers, they don’t worry as much about social issues. Their concerns are traditionally conservative – they worry about excessive regulation and taxation. They have a hard time taking Fox News seriously, and hold a deep disdain for the tea party faction. They are also keenly aware of their waning influence within the coalition.
Moderates are not so sure about their place in the current Republican Party. They worry about the ability of Republicans in Congress to make government work. They believe the party is stuck, not forward-looking, and representative of old ideas. They worry about the Republican Party’s right turn on social and environmental issues — which makes it difficult, especially for young moderates — to view the Republican Party as a modern party.
Unlike the tea partiers and Evangelicals, the moderate faction desperately wants lawmakers in Washington to find a common middle ground. They are less likely to worry about unauthorized immigration than the rest of the base, and some went so far as to speak positively about immigrants’ contributions to our society and economy.
Climate change is another dividing line between moderate Republicans and the hard-right. GOP moderates may be unsure of the science on climate change, but they don’t reject it out of hand, and some are legitimately worried about the effects of a changing climate.
In this, they stand out from the Evangelical and tea party wings. The study’s authors write:
Moderates are not even in the same conversation as Evangelicals who deeply doubt scientists writ large and Tea Party Republicans who are consumed by the big government and regulations that inevitably result from climate science.
Evangelicals and Tea Party Republicans share and are consumed by skepticism about climate science — to the point where they mistrust scientists before they begin to speak.
The whole study is fascinating. You can read it here.
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jamny
Footballguy
Or how many young people will finally realize what this will cost them. I'm sure there are plenty who will come around to realize why Republicans are against it.
LinusMarr
Footballguy
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
And that's fair. I shouldn't have used a blanket statement.
I guess I should say that I have no interest arguing about politics on this site. Every so often, I'll add a comment or speak my mind, but I'm more about the humor. I also believe that when it comes to most political issues, they usually come down to opinions. And I think everyone should have one. I love that we are so vocal of our beliefs. But, for the most part, discussions about politics on the Internet quickly transform into arguments. And I'm not looking for that.
One of my favorite political quotes is from Joe Biden. He was on Jay Leno and Leno asked him a question about George W.'s policies and he said his dad told him this: "Never question another man's motive. Question his judgement, but not their motive. It's not your role."
We all want what's best for this country. But we all have different ideas of how to get it done.
timschochet
Footballguy
A few conservatives here, like Court Jester, have raised the unanswerable question: if Obamacare is so disastrous and going to be so unpopular, why not just let it happen? Wouldn't the GOP be far better off with a public which is focused on Obamacare and rejecting it? Why distract attention away from the ACA with a government shutdown?
It's not unanswerable at all, in fact it's already been answered. They would blame the failure on the right, and use it to push for more "reform".
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Insoxicated
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
If it was only about Obamacare I'd agree with you. I assume their motives are linked to the debt ceiling and they are trying to gain leverage, we won't know if that is successful for another 10 days.
ETA: Also I don't think it is completely fruitless, the R's make their point by making a stink. In a few months when it sinks in with the public how much this is actually going to cost them they may look back at this shutdown favorably, it's easy to say today that's not the case, but in a few months who knows?
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Insoxicated
Perhaps because some people are more interested in the best interest in the country, rather than sacrificing the welfare of the American people in exchange for political capital in a stupid slapfight between a battle of two ####ty parties.
3C's
Footballguy
Couple of key points in that article: more hospitals in the Bay Area are owned by hospital groups that can demand higher rates because of the lack of competition. (yah free market!) A frustrated Vinson went on the Covered California site to see what she would pay for the same policy if she lived in Los Angeles or Sacramento. She discovered she would save at least $100 monthly. Not all of the sticker shock can be blamed on Obamacare.Matthias said:
Basically, it appears health care monopolies are driving up the price in the bay area.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
I play in a fall softball league on the Ellipse. They are apparently starting to kick teams off the Ellipse. I just got notice that all games are cancelled until the shutdown is over, and with winter coming soon, games might be postponed until spring now. 
timschochet
Footballguy
The article gives a brief narrative of a study conducted by reputable pollsters regarding the Republican base. Why don't you read it and tell us what you take issue with, rather than shooting the messenger?
timschochet
Footballguy
Who is "they"? I'm speaking of public opinion. You believe that if Obamacare were allowed to just happen and was unpopular, the public would blame the right?
timschochet
Footballguy
So the Republican party is going to serve the best interests of the country by LOSING political capital?
jamny
Footballguy
Of course. They already do. Supporters believe it would be even better if not for the concessions made to Republicans. Any failure will be blamed on the right.
Joe T
Footballguy
This shutdown is really having an impact.I play in a fall softball league on the Ellipse. They are apparently starting to kick teams off the Ellipse. I just got notice that all games are cancelled until the shutdown is over, and with winter coming soon, games might be postponed until spring now.
matttyl
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
People who already support Obamacare are not the ones who will decide whether it's popular or not. That will be the general public.
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Insoxicated
IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT REPUBLICANS VS DEMOCRATS...US VS THEM...RED VS BLUE.. LEFT VS RIGHT! You morons that are using this country as some sort of turf war are the biggest problem of all.... on BOTH sides.
Jesus you're dense.
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3C's
Footballguy
A monopoly is driving up his cost. As pointed out, Obamacare is not the sole (key word) reason for his increase. I know several people who have had their rates decrease. When's the last time you heard that? One is saving $400/yr for the exact same plan/coverage. Another is saving $600.
I'll know soon what the "damage" is to my plan. I fully expect to pay more as it's gone up every year for as long as I can remember.
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The Commish
Footballguy
What do you mean by this. Are you saying refusal to argue about the issues makes it less likely to understand the issues?
timschochet
Footballguy
I don't think I'm the one being dense here.IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT REPUBLICANS VS DEMOCRATS...US VS THEM...RED VS BLUE!
Jesus you're dense.
If you truly want to get rid of Obamacare and reduce spending, you need political capital to do so. In other words, you need to win elections. That means, in this instance, it absolutely IS all about Republicans vs. Democrats. The only way for Republicans to accomplish their goals is to win more elections. Shutting down the government, threatening to not raise the debt ceiling- these things will cause them to lose elections, not win. The net result of these actions will be to make Obamacare more permanent, not less.
Sand
Footballguy
I'm taken aback, here. An astute quote from Joe? You sure there isn't a ******* joke or something in here that I've missed?
Don Quixote
Footballguy
Well, my wife is furloughed. And I have a lot of friends furloughed too. Yes, my softball league is a minor casualty, but that does not mean there are not greater impacts out there.This shutdown is really having an impact.I play in a fall softball league on the Ellipse. They are apparently starting to kick teams off the Ellipse. I just got notice that all games are cancelled until the shutdown is over, and with winter coming soon, games might be postponed until spring now.
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matttyl
Footballguy
Wouldn't that same "monopoly" have already driven the cost up of his current plan? Again, he's not moving his address - only his coverage. The new plan is apparently $10k per year more.
I've heard of quite a few people paying less - most of the time thanks to subsidies. And the person "saving $400" isn't getting the exact same plan (more than likely) as 99% of current plans don't meet all the mandated EHBs. Some older and sicker folks will also be paying less, as this is how the new system is set up.
3C's
Footballguy
Aerial Assault
Footballguy
Really??? You funnin' us about this here furlough bidness? Cause Statorama can detect no sign that the GOVERNMENT IS EVEN SHUT DOWN. Your story sure sounds fishy! #toidiotsWell, my wife is furloughed. And I have a lot of friends furloughed too. Yes, my softball league is a minor casualty, but that does not mean there are not greater impacts out there.This shutdown is really having an impact.I play in a fall softball league on the Ellipse. They are apparently starting to kick teams off the Ellipse. I just got notice that all games are cancelled until the shutdown is over, and with winter coming soon, games might be postponed until spring now.
encaitar
Footballguy
It isn't difficult Tim. It just requires a little bit of an open mind. If Obamacare is as terrible as the Tea Party believes it will be, then 6 months from now, they will say "See... We did what we could. We tried to stop this terrible law and were laughed at for it. We need to repeal this law and make life better for Americans." They will now be in a position to be able to say that. It will resonate with the American public.I don't think I'm the one being dense here.IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT REPUBLICANS VS DEMOCRATS...US VS THEM...RED VS BLUE!
Jesus you're dense.
If you truly want to get rid of Obamacare and reduce spending, you need political capital to do so. In other words, you need to win elections. That means, in this instance, it absolutely IS all about Republicans vs. Democrats. The only way for Republicans to accomplish their goals is to win more elections. Shutting down the government, threatening to not raise the debt ceiling- these things will cause them to lose elections, not win. The net result of these actions will be to make Obamacare more permanent, not less.
If there was no shutdown, then Dems would be blaming concessions to the Republicans as the reason there was so much wrong with Obamacare. They would argue not for its repeal, but for reforming it to what they "originally" planned. Even with Republicans denying this, it would become a fight of who does the American public believe. Despite both sides being snakes in the grass and ready to lie at a moment's whim to get their way, right now the public would likely take Democratic word before Republican.
So, what this shutdown really did is make the Democrats OWN this law. They can no longer say with any conviction that the Republicans are at fault for what is wrong with the law. It is a Democratic law. It's their baby. If it bombs, it will all be on them. So, while public opinion may dislike the Republican tactics right now, 6 months from now, it may look like a genius move. However, that's only the case if Obamacare is as bad as they believe it will be.
3C's
Footballguy
So the 40-something times they voted to repeal it was just for show?It isn't difficult Tim. It just requires a little bit of an open mind. If Obamacare is as terrible as the Tea Party believes it will be, then 6 months from now, they will say "See... We did what we could. We tried to stop this terrible law and were laughed at for it. We need to repeal this law and make life better for Americans." They will now be in a position to be able to say that. It will resonate with the American public.I don't think I'm the one being dense here.IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT REPUBLICANS VS DEMOCRATS...US VS THEM...RED VS BLUE!
Jesus you're dense.
If you truly want to get rid of Obamacare and reduce spending, you need political capital to do so. In other words, you need to win elections. That means, in this instance, it absolutely IS all about Republicans vs. Democrats. The only way for Republicans to accomplish their goals is to win more elections. Shutting down the government, threatening to not raise the debt ceiling- these things will cause them to lose elections, not win. The net result of these actions will be to make Obamacare more permanent, not less.
If there was no shutdown, then Dems would be blaming concessions to the Republicans as the reason there was so much wrong with Obamacare. They would argue not for its repeal, but for reforming it to what they "originally" planned. Even with Republicans denying this, it would become a fight of who does the American public believe. Despite both sides being snakes in the grass and ready to lie at a moment's whim to get their way, right now the public would likely take Democratic word before Republican.
So, what this shutdown really did is make the Democrats OWN this law. They can no longer say with any conviction that the Republicans are at fault for what is wrong with the law. It is a Democratic law. It's their baby. If it bombs, it will all be on them. So, while public opinion may dislike the Republican tactics right now, 6 months from now, it may look like a genius move. However, that's only the case if Obamacare is as bad as they believe it will be.
igbomb
Footballguy
Tim - I'm with you on this one. I agree that this catastrophe is entirely on the Republicans. But you gotta know that you've said the same thing dozens of times in this thread and the people you're arguing with aren't exactly going to change their tune. At this point you're just feeding the trolls.I don't think I'm the one being dense here.IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT REPUBLICANS VS DEMOCRATS...US VS THEM...RED VS BLUE!
Jesus you're dense.
If you truly want to get rid of Obamacare and reduce spending, you need political capital to do so. In other words, you need to win elections. That means, in this instance, it absolutely IS all about Republicans vs. Democrats. The only way for Republicans to accomplish their goals is to win more elections. Shutting down the government, threatening to not raise the debt ceiling- these things will cause them to lose elections, not win. The net result of these actions will be to make Obamacare more permanent, not less.
"They" is the left. Do you really think they'd just sit back and say "Our bad"? No, they'd spin the blame on the right, just like both sides do on every issue now.
