The Tea Party is back in business! (2 Viewers)

[The Commish]

Why does everyone keep talking about "negotiations" when it comes to Obamacare?? It's like the lawyers don't understand how the legal system works.

 

[humpback]

Of course it has to do with your point- spin influences public opinion. I agree with some of what Court Jester said, but he also pretty much made my point- the left still blames Bush for most of their problems, they'll find a way to spin this on them as well.

We generally disagree with the state of Washington (it least that's how it seems), but we do agree that the spin machine is front and center for both parties and they use it to their full advantage. This is probably THE biggest weapon either party has and it's been encouraged by the way our "media" does business in covering the issues. With all that said, it's hard to disagree that the GOP didn't whiff on this big time by not letting it play out and expending any credibility they have left. Yeah, when ACA fails to meet expectations the Dems are going to be firing up their spin machine and they're going to have WAY more credibility than the GOP does. Not because they are better or right but because the GOP used all their political capital in a VERY poor manner. Simply put, the Dems are playing the game way better than the GOP is. Unfortunately, that's the gauge most voters go by and a pretty significant part of why we're in the situation we are.

We actually agree on most of the state of Washington, but other things seem to get in the way of that.

I'm not saying the GOP has handled this well by any stretch, I was just countering the "if they just let the ACA fail they'd have overwhelming public support" line of thinking. Sure, some people would back them, but most already have their mind made up before the game is even played.

 

[roadkill1292]

I'll get right on "winning elections"

2004, the Democrats lost the Presidential election which they thought for sure they would win. They were devastated. Did they whine? Sure. But they dusted themselves off and figured out how to win. And they won the House and Senate in 2006.

Right now, the Republicans are still fighting the 2012 Presidential Election. They need to move on.

Dems still talk about how Al Gore is REALLY their President.

He's becoming Czar Of All Sports and nationalizing all the professional leagues in our New World Order.

 

[TheIronSheik]

63% upset with Reps

57% upset with Dems

53% upset with Obama

I'll state it again: No one's side is winning.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

When Boehner folds (as he's already told people he will) how do you think those numbers will look?

 

[TheIronSheik]

When Boehner folds (as he's already told people he will) how do you think those numbers will look?

Not much different. Probably worse for all involved.

 

[[icon]]

63% upset with Reps

57% upset with Dems

53% upset with Obama

I'll state it again: No one's side is winning.

anyone thinking otherwise is delusional.

 

[timschochet]

63% upset with Reps

57% upset with Dems

53% upset with Obama

I'll state it again: No one's side is winning.

anyone thinking otherwise is delusional.

I don't think it's delusional to think that one side is primarily to blame, and that one side will ultimately be held responsible. I continue to believe that anyone who blames Democrats either is partisan or not paying attention. The facts are as clear as they can be.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

When Boehner folds (as he's already told people he will) how do you think those numbers will look?

Not much different. Probably worse for all involved.

The right wing already hates Obama, now they'll hate the moderate GOP too. So approval falls for Republicans. You saw this with Obama's approval rating in 2011. It fell, but almost exclusively because left wing Democrats turned away from the perceived weakness of Obama in the last round of debt limit hostage taking.

Dem approval of Obama will go up (in fact it's already happening) -- everyone likes a winner and Dems are sick of seeing Obama negotiate against himself. (That's the perception -- even if you disagree.)

Obama will probably also get a bump with Independents for the same reason and might even gain a small bit of ground for being 'strong' among moderate Republicans tired of the Tea Party schtick.

Dems in Congress probably net out to about zero or at least a smaller decline since the media narrative of the dispute is being presented as mostly between Obama and the GOP.

I think people underestimate the pressure on Boehner not to fold, but he really doesn't have any options and the Wall Street/Chamber of Commerce wing of his party are going to make sure he eventually caves.

That's my guess anyhow. Different strokes and etc.

 

[[icon]]

63% upset with Reps

57% upset with Dems

53% upset with Obama

I'll state it again: No one's side is winning.

anyone thinking otherwise is delusional.

I don't think it's delusional to think that one side is primarily to blame, and that one side will ultimately be held responsible. I continue to believe that anyone who blames Democrats either is partisan or not paying attention. The facts are as clear as they can be.

"My team sucks slightly less than your team"

Both teams suck

 

[Slapdash]

63% upset with Reps

57% upset with Dems

53% upset with Obama

I'll state it again: No one's side is winning.

anyone thinking otherwise is delusional.

I don't think it's delusional to think that one side is primarily to blame, and that one side will ultimately be held responsible. I continue to believe that anyone who blames Democrats either is partisan or not paying attention. The facts are as clear as they can be.

"My team sucks slightly less than your team"

Both teams suck

Is this the Jaguars vs. Rams game thread?

 

[Johnny Bing]

I know no one has a crystal ball, but any gut feelings when the gov't will re-open? Any chance this week or do you think we are in this for long haul?

I'm supposed to close on my house on the 15th, the buyers have a USDA loan and of course we cannot close next week with the gov't closed.

 

[[icon]]

Is this the Jaguars vs. Rams game thread?

PROXY SLAPDASH

 

[Clifford]

Ultimately it doesn't matter who actually did what because we don't have an informed populace, and we have a media that actively tries to distort facts. All that will matter when this is over is the money lost. Democrat media outlets will blame Republicans, and Republican media outlets will blame Democrats, Everyone gets a nice dose of confirmation bias, and we'll be set up to do the same thing next year.

 

[timschochet]

63% upset with Reps

57% upset with Dems

53% upset with Obama

I'll state it again: No one's side is winning.

anyone thinking otherwise is delusional.

I don't think it's delusional to think that one side is primarily to blame, and that one side will ultimately be held responsible. I continue to believe that anyone who blames Democrats either is partisan or not paying attention. The facts are as clear as they can be.

"My team sucks slightly less than your team"

Both teams suck

Is this the Jaguars vs. Rams game thread?

My team has always been the Republicans.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I know no one has a crystal ball, but any gut feelings when the gov't will re-open? Any chance this week or do you think we are in this for long haul?

I'm supposed to close on my house on the 15th, the buyers have a USDA loan and of course we cannot close next week with the gov't closed.

It's possible the government shutdown and the debt limit will be decoupled -- in which case, who knows how long the shutdown will go. Maybe a long time.

If they're dealt with together it seems pretty likely that it'll be open again by October 17th.

 

[timschochet]

Ultimately it doesn't matter who actually did what because we don't have an informed populace, and we have a media that actively tries to distort facts. All that will matter when this is over is the money lost. Democrat media outlets will blame Republicans, and Republican media outlets will blame Democrats, Everyone gets a nice dose of confirmation bias, and we'll be set up to do the same thing next year.

It matters. Perhaps the public will get it right, perhaps they won't, but the truth matters anyhow. And it especially matters in this instance because so long as the Republican leadership is terrified of this small band of extremists, we're going to have this sort of dysfunction happen again and again.

Unless the Tea Party is permanently repudiated as a result of this mess, we're looking at years and years of dumbness and pain.

 

[mr roboto]

History declares winners and losers. Not shades of grey. This will go down as a Republican caused crisis.

 

[avoiding injuries]

63% upset with Reps

57% upset with Dems

53% upset with Obama

I'll state it again: No one's side is winning.

anyone thinking otherwise is delusional.

I don't think it's delusional to think that one side is primarily to blame, and that one side will ultimately be held responsible. I continue to believe that anyone who blames Democrats either is partisan or not paying attention. The facts are as clear as they can be.

"My team sucks slightly less than your team" Both teams suck

Is this the Jaguars vs. Rams game thread?

The analogy used about 10 pages ago was Manning vs Ponder, so DEN vs MIN? HahaDelusional

 

[Fennis]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-BwpVSh8EGgw/TrrGzPPUjxI/AAAAAAAAH2M/CKFL18cnXto/s1600/bush+obama+mask+sticker.jpg

 

[wazoo11]

Is any one else rooting for the default to happen?

 

[FlapJacks]

this place is in overdrive with people basically posting "I'm not part of the problem, it's those epoliticians who stink...and here's some misleading statemets/incomplete facts/outright lies that say my guys have less culpability"

 

[timschochet]

Is any one else rooting for the default to happen?

So you are, I take it?

Actually, I've been listening to a few conservatives on the radio who seem to want it. They argue that it's no big deal. One guy pointed out this morning that the federal government takes in 230 billion a month, and that the service on the debt is 35 billion, so all Obama has to do is pay that amount first, and Wall Street will relax; we can figure out what not to spend from the remaining 195 billion. Seems simple, no?

 

[parasaurolophus]

63% upset with Reps

57% upset with Dems

53% upset with Obama

I'll state it again: No one's side is winning.

Some democrats will tell you that 6% difference means "America has spoken"

 

[bagger]

Is any one else rooting for the default to happen?

no. this isnt a game. there are real consequences to screwing around like this. why would we want to default on expenses already incurred?

i am all for sitting both sides down and balancing the budget, which would mean serious reform to social security, medicare, and defense. but that is a discussion you have after you start up the government and pay your bills.

the debt ceiling is your credit card bill. if after going on a fun vacation, spending a bunch more money on house renovations, and a big hospital bill you realize you need to reign in spending going forward, you dont start out by defaulting on the bills you already owe.

 

[jonessed]

Is any one else rooting for the default to happen?

no. this isnt a game. there are real consequences to screwing around like this. why would we want to default on expenses already incurred?

i am all for sitting both sides down and balancing the budget, which would mean serious reform to social security, medicare, and defense. but that is a discussion you have after you start up the government and pay your bills.

the debt ceiling is your credit card bill. if after going on a fun vacation, spending a bunch more money on house renovations, and a big hospital bill you realize you need to reign in spending going forward, you dont start out by defaulting on the bills you already owe.

Sometimes you actually do

 

[Dr Oadi]

Is any one else rooting for the default to happen?

Harry Reid must be since he will not bring "Full Faith and Credit Act" to a vote in the Senate that would pay Americas debt even without raising the debt ceiling.Since government budget isn't like your household budget defaulting is not raising your credit card limit instead of not paying your credit card bill.

The world markets need the stability of Americas ever increasing debt. If America should somehow halt its debt at its current level the world would end.

Republicans want the world to end and that's why they will not increase the debt ceiling.

 

[dparker713]

Is any one else rooting for the default to happen?

Harry Reid must be since he will not bring "Full Faith and Credit Act" to a vote in the Senate that would pay Americas debt even without raising the debt ceiling.Since government budget isn't like your household budget defaulting is not raising your credit card limit instead of not paying your credit card bill.

The world markets need the stability of Americas ever increasing debt. If America should somehow halt its debt at its current level the world would end.

Republicans want the world to end and that's why they will not increase the debt ceiling.

Just need to find $80 billion or so in cuts per month to make that viable. Sounds entirely reasonable when the alternative is to lift an artificial cap.

 

[bagger]

Is any one else rooting for the default to happen?

no. this isnt a game. there are real consequences to screwing around like this. why would we want to default on expenses already incurred?

i am all for sitting both sides down and balancing the budget, which would mean serious reform to social security, medicare, and defense. but that is a discussion you have after you start up the government and pay your bills.

the debt ceiling is your credit card bill. if after going on a fun vacation, spending a bunch more money on house renovations, and a big hospital bill you realize you need to reign in spending going forward, you dont start out by defaulting on the bills you already owe.

Sometimes you actually do

if youre going bk sure. not really the best route here if you want the us to have any clout as a leader in the financial sector.

 

[Dr Oadi]

Truckers to shut down DC Oct 11. Tea party lunatics more than likely.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/10/07/truckers-for-the-constitution-plan-to-slow-dc-beltway-arrest-congressmen

 

[bagger]

Truckers to shut down DC Oct 11. Tea party lunatics more than likely.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/10/07/truckers-for-the-constitution-plan-to-slow-dc-beltway-arrest-congressmen

the shut down is making the crazies crazier. this is becoming lord of the flies on a national level.

 

[Fennis]

Truckers to shut down DC Oct 11. Tea party lunatics more than likely.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/10/07/truckers-for-the-constitution-plan-to-slow-dc-beltway-arrest-congressmen

man people are nutty.

 

[timschochet]

Truckers to shut down DC Oct 11. Tea party lunatics more than likely.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/10/07/truckers-for-the-constitution-plan-to-slow-dc-beltway-arrest-congressmen

"We want these people arrested, and we're coming in with the grand jury to do it," he said. "We are going to ask the law enforcement to uphold their constitutional oath and make these arrests. If they refuse to do it, by the power of the people of the United States and the people's grand jury, they don't want to do it, we will. ... We the people will find a way."

"These people" are President Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid.

 

[Statorama]

Obama closing anything with "optics", trying to inflict as much pain as possible for Americans, is reaching some pretty shameful lows.

Glad someone finally got hold of his dumb ### and said it might not have been the best idea to shut down the Amber Alert website

 

[Joe T]

Obama closing anything with "optics", trying to inflict as much pain as possible for Americans, is reaching some pretty shameful lows.

Glad someone finally got hold of his dumb ### and said it might not have been the best idea to shut down the Amber Alert website

 

[Dr Oadi]

Obama closing anything with "optics", trying to inflict as much pain as possible for Americans, is reaching some pretty shameful lows.

Glad someone finally got hold of his dumb ### and said it might not have been the best idea to shut down the Amber Alert website

At least the first lady's Lets Move didn't get took down. Priorities.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

"It's going to be real fun for anyone who is not a supporter," Conlon said, "[and] if cops decide to give us a hard time, we're going to lock the brakes up, we're going to stop right there, we're going to be a three lane roadblock."

Should be fun. Glad I don't have to wait too long for this one -- the 11th is just around the corner.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I don't think default is a real possibility. If we actually bump up against the debt ceiling, my guess is that Obama goes directly to the 14th amendment, which is a slam-dunk in my legally-uninformed opinion.

 

[shader]

Is any one else rooting for the default to happen?

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2013/10/Obama%20Debt%20Ceiling.JPG

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

I'm not going to get pulled back into a political argument. I've stated here many times that I do not have a "side" in this. And as a impartial observer, my opinion is that both sides are wrong.

Please note that I have said "my opinion."

Those that look only to confirm their belief that both sides are at fault have the same blinders that any partisan participant. And usually having checked out of the political debate those blinders are even worst. Does being neutral really mean refusal to weigh the choices at all?

What do you mean by this. Are you saying refusal to argue about the issues makes it less likely to understand the issues?

Close. Refusal to compare, contrast, and weigh the positions that make up issues makes it impossible to really understand the issues. And if you do those on both side may be generally guilty, but they will never be equal. One should look at things with an open mind, not come to conclusions with a blank mind.

 

[3C's]

Truckers to shut down DC Oct 11. Tea party lunatics more than likely.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/10/07/truckers-for-the-constitution-plan-to-slow-dc-beltway-arrest-congressmen

man people are nutty.

Read the comments. Totally insane. Sad really where we are. Too bad we can't do a ctrl-alt-delete on the last 13 or so years.

 

[badmojo1006]

Is any one else rooting for the default to happen?

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2013/10/Obama%20Debt%20Ceiling.JPG

And John Boehner voted to raise the Debt Ceiling during the Bush Era

So what is your point?

 

[eurotrashman]

Obama closing anything with "optics", trying to inflict as much pain as possible for Americans....

Great stuff stat.

 

[ffldrew]

Truckers to shut down DC Oct 11. Tea party lunatics more than likely.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/10/07/truckers-for-the-constitution-plan-to-slow-dc-beltway-arrest-congressmen

How will anyone know they having any effect - it's already the slowest most congested road in the country.

 

[ProBowler88]

63% upset with Reps

57% upset with Dems

53% upset with Obama

I'll state it again: No one's side is winning.

Isn't that how it always goes?

 

[commisholio]

I'm not going to get pulled back into a political argument. I've stated here many times that I do not have a "side" in this. And as a impartial observer, my opinion is that both sides are wrong.

Please note that I have said "my opinion."

Those that look only to confirm their belief that both sides are at fault have the same blinders that any partisan participant. And usually having checked out of the political debate those blinders are even worst. Does being neutral really mean refusal to weigh the choices at all?

What do you mean by this. Are you saying refusal to argue about the issues makes it less likely to understand the issues?

Close. Refusal to compare, contrast, and weigh the positions that make up issues makes it impossible to really understand the issues. And if you do those on both side may be generally guilty, but they will never be equal. One should look at things with an open mind, not come to conclusions with a blank mind.

Yeah, I generally sympathize with "pox on both their houses" positions because they generally are both kind of awful. But there's only one side here that is holding the whole government hostage to try to accomplish a legislative priority they can't get through by normal means. If shutting down the government and threatening to default on the debt becomes a regular option for one party to get its way, it is very hard to see how it ends well.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

• Allow insurance companies to sell across state lines to increase competition.

Anyone know why this isn't allowed under the present version of Obamacare? What's so bad about insurance being sold nationally?

Hoping for a totally non-partisan answer, but if none is forthcoming ... so be it.

Democrats and republicans tend to have different perspectives on the relative merits of this relatively recent event. Removing the states ability to regulate every plan offered within its borders will result in the same things happening. Whether that is a good thing or not (as whole) is where the parties disagree.

Oh, and it is allowed in ObamaCare in the sense that states are free to for interstate compacts. Not quite the same.

 

[shader]

Is any one else rooting for the default to happen?

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2013/10/Obama%20Debt%20Ceiling.JPG

And John Boehner voted to raise the Debt Ceiling during the Bush EraSo what is your point?

I don't have a point and certainly don't care about Boehner or his past voting record. Just think it's funny and ironic.

 

[Todd Andrews]

Wow, the KooKs really have nothing to say about trying to destroy the American economy.

They really hate our Soul Brother President.

Wow. I love the "if you're not with us, you're a racist" play. I used to think you were a fairly intelligent poster but damn....

Well, same back at you. Maybe the Republican KooKs should concentrate on defeating their political opponents at the ballot for a change?

The Republicans are just as lame as Democrats these days.. neither is acting in the best interests of the people. HTH.

Not sure what that has to do with your pathetic race-baiting though.

Half of the Republican Kooks think Obama was born in Africa and isnt qualified to be President. You cant be this dense.

 

[Todd Andrews]

Wow, the KooKs really have nothing to say about trying to destroy the American economy.

They really hate our Soul Brother President.

Wow. I love the "if you're not with us, you're a racist" play. I used to think you were a fairly intelligent poster but damn....

Well, same back at you. Maybe the Republican KooKs should concentrate on defeating their political opponents at the ballot for a change?

And leave the Democrats to going back to defeating their political opponents from the bench, I guess?

Please unpack this one for me as I dont know what you are claiming.