The Tea Party is back in business! (1 Viewer)

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

So I was right about the basic formula:

Republicans can point to the medical device tax and income verification as getting 'something' for reopening government and raising the debt limit.

Democrats can point to the unnamed concessions as being the reason they gave up medical device tax and income verification. i.e. that it wasn't in exchange for reopening government or raising the debt limit.

Also, sounds like they're going to open the government for a shorter time frame, which helps get around the issue of locking in the sequester levels for a longer time. The issue of the debt limit is irrelevant to the budget.

Will be interesting to see what Boehner and the House Republicans do since this is a bipartisan deal coming out of the Senate. It gives some small amount of cover to the idea that Republicans did all this for nothing, but not much. And I expect the Tea Party won't like it at all.

Will also be interesting to see if Senate Republicans take a leading role in the post-crisis budget negotiations and dare House Republicans to balk.

 

[Gr00vus]

Sounds like they're getting close to a deal:

Emerging from a closed-door meeting with Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY), Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NY) told reporters that the sides were making progress on a deal to end the government shutdown and raise the debt limit and that he hoped to have a plan ready for a Monday afternoon meeting at the White House.

"I hope so," Reid said when asked if a proposal would be ready for a 3 p.m. meeting with himself, McConnell, President Obama, Vice President Joe Biden, House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA).

"We're getting closer," he said. Reid and McConnell met for about half an hour Monday in McConnell's office.

According to Politico, Reid has made McConnell an offer that would include re-opening the government for a shorter period, until some time in December, while extending the debt limit for a longer period, between six and nine months. Senate Democrats are also open to delaying Obamacare's medical device tax and adding requirements that people who receive tax credits through the law have their income verified -- but only in exchange for some concessions from Republicans, according to the report.

Some of Reid's Democratic colleagues were more optimistic after another short meeting in Reid's office.

"Very encouraging, very encouraging," Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV) told reporters. "Everyone's just hopeful that things work out the way they should. The most promising thing is we're moving in the right direction."

Cool, let's do this all again in 2 months, except this time we can furlough people for the Holidays - merry XMAS everyone!

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Cool, let's do this all again in 2 months, except this time we can furlough people for the Holidays - merry XMAS everyone!

Yeah, that's the danger.

There will be a ton of pressure on Republicans not to #### the bed a 2nd time, but there's a ton of pressure not to compromise on the underlying budget issues too. Keep in mind that 2014 is an election year -- so the potential cost of going through this whole thing again next year goes up.

Pure guess: the two sides agree to the 2014 budget without another shutdown and it reduces the sequestration cuts somewhat. Then long-term negotiations to replace the sequester kick in again.

 

[Parrothead]

Sounds like they're getting close to a deal:

Emerging from a closed-door meeting with Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY), Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NY) told reporters that the sides were making progress on a deal to end the government shutdown and raise the debt limit and that he hoped to have a plan ready for a Monday afternoon meeting at the White House.

"I hope so," Reid said when asked if a proposal would be ready for a 3 p.m. meeting with himself, McConnell, President Obama, Vice President Joe Biden, House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA).

"We're getting closer," he said. Reid and McConnell met for about half an hour Monday in McConnell's office.

According to Politico, Reid has made McConnell an offer that would include re-opening the government for a shorter period, until some time in December, while extending the debt limit for a longer period, between six and nine months. Senate Democrats are also open to delaying Obamacare's medical device tax and adding requirements that people who receive tax credits through the law have their income verified -- but only in exchange for some concessions from Republicans, according to the report.

Some of Reid's Democratic colleagues were more optimistic after another short meeting in Reid's office.

"Very encouraging, very encouraging," Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV) told reporters. "Everyone's just hopeful that things work out the way they should. The most promising thing is we're moving in the right direction."

Cool, let's do this all again in 2 months, except this time we can furlough people for the Holidays - merry XMAS everyone!

watching the dems and reps dealing with this is like watching 2 monkeys trying to #### a football...

 

[the moops]

Cool, let's do this all again in 2 months, except this time we can furlough people for the Holidays - merry XMAS everyone!

Can already envision it. "the democrats war on Jesus and Christmas"

 

[LinusMarr]

Cool, let's do this all again in 2 months, except this time we can furlough people for the Holidays - merry XMAS everyone!

Can already envision it. "the democrats war on Jesus and Christmas"

We already know they aren't a big fan of either...All these people in Washington should be fired. No question about it...

 

[Scoresman]

NPR, which has been trying hard to be neutral through this whole thing, pretty much said the Republicans are in full retreat right now and the biggest issue the Democrats have is that Harry Reid might be trying to get concessions out of the Republicans, such as resuming pre-sequester level funding, instead of just getting the clean bill they've been demanding.

Tea Partiers are still high as a ####### kite and think they are winning and that this is good for the country

 

[Gr00vus]

NPR, which has been trying hard to be neutral through this whole thing, pretty much said the Republicans are in full retreat right now and the biggest issue the Democrats have is that Harry Reid might be trying to get concessions out of the Republicans, such as resuming pre-sequester level funding, instead of just getting the clean bill they've been demanding.

Tea Partiers are still high as a ####### kite and think they are winning and that this is good for the country

If this is true & it ####s up making a deal, we need to invent a Harry Reid perpetual motion nut punching machine and bolt it on to him.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Dems are either going to get a clean CR and a clean debt limit, or are going to get concessions in exchange for concessions.

As was true day one, Republicans aren't going to get concessions for a CR and a debt limit.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

When he took to the Senate floor Monday afternoon, Senate Majority Harry Reid (D-NV) didn't announce a deal to end the government shutdown and increase the debt limit, but he said he was "very optimistic" that one would be made this week.

"Constructive good-faith negotiations continue between the Republican leader and me," Reid said. "I'm very optimistic that we will reach an agreement that's reasonable in nature this week to reopen the government, pay the nation's bills and begin long-term negotiations to put our country on sound fiscal footing."

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) echoed Reid's comments a few moments later.

"We have had an opportunity over the last couple of days to have some very constructive exchanges of views about how to move forward," he said. "Those discussions continue, and I share his optimism that we're going to get a result that will be acceptable to both sides."

The Senate leaders will head to the White House at 3 p.m. ET for a meeting with President Obama, Vice President Joe Biden, House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA).

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Say what you want about them from the other side of the aisle, but both Reid and McConnell know how to get a deal done. It's all just business to them. They're like Sam Sheepdog and Ralph the Wolf.

 

[Lutherman2112]

Say what you want about them from the other side of the aisle, but both Reid and McConnell know how to get a deal done. It's all just business to them. They're like Sam Sheepdog and Ralph the Wolf.

Morning, Sam.

Morning, Ralph.

 

[The Commish]

Say what you want about them from the other side of the aisle, but both Reid and McConnell know how to get a deal done. It's all just business to them. They're like Sam Sheepdog and Ralph the Wolf.

No need to inconvenience and burden the American people in situations like this. If they "know how to get it done" then do it and stop with the bull####.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Say what you want about them from the other side of the aisle, but both Reid and McConnell know how to get a deal done. It's all just business to them. They're like Sam Sheepdog and Ralph the Wolf.

No need to inconvenience and burden the American people in situations like this. If they "know how to get it done" then do it and stop with the bull####.

Two thoughts...

The Senate doesn't control the House. So no matter what Reid and McConnell thought they couldn't really prevent it.

And there's a process to all this. Things that are possible today weren't possible three weeks ago before Republicans saw how badly this would play out for them.

 

[The Commish]

Say what you want about them from the other side of the aisle, but both Reid and McConnell know how to get a deal done. It's all just business to them. They're like Sam Sheepdog and Ralph the Wolf.

No need to inconvenience and burden the American people in situations like this. If they "know how to get it done" then do it and stop with the bull####.

Two thoughts...

The Senate doesn't control the House. So no matter what Reid and McConnell thought they couldn't really prevent it.

And there's a process to all this. Things that are possible today weren't possible three weeks ago before Republicans saw how badly this would play out for them.

I don't know of anything preventing them of going to talk with their counterparts in the House. If they are as good as advertised, they'd have figured something out.

 

[Don Quixote]

Say what you want about them from the other side of the aisle, but both Reid and McConnell know how to get a deal done. It's all just business to them. They're like Sam Sheepdog and Ralph the Wolf.

No need to inconvenience and burden the American people in situations like this. If they "know how to get it done" then do it and stop with the bull####.

Two thoughts...

The Senate doesn't control the House. So no matter what Reid and McConnell thought they couldn't really prevent it.

And there's a process to all this. Things that are possible today weren't possible three weeks ago before Republicans saw how badly this would play out for them.

Still no guarantee the House will go along with it. Reid and McConnell had a deal on the payroll tax a couple of years ago that got shot down by the House.

 

[[icon]]

Dems are either going to get a clean CR and a clean debt limit, or are going to get concessions in exchange for concessions.

As was true day one, Republicans aren't going to get concessions for a CR and a debt limit.

Cool. No deal then. See you guys thursday

I think both sides are idiots in this but the Democrats have a lot more of their base living paycheck to paycheck that would be ####ED if things tightened up.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Say what you want about them from the other side of the aisle, but both Reid and McConnell know how to get a deal done. It's all just business to them. They're like Sam Sheepdog and Ralph the Wolf.

No need to inconvenience and burden the American people in situations like this. If they "know how to get it done" then do it and stop with the bull####.

Two thoughts...

The Senate doesn't control the House. So no matter what Reid and McConnell thought they couldn't really prevent it.

And there's a process to all this. Things that are possible today weren't possible three weeks ago before Republicans saw how badly this would play out for them.

I don't know of anything preventing them of going to talk with their counterparts in the House. If they are as good as advertised, they'd have figured something out.

Honestly? This is just more "blame everyone" foolishness.

Mitch McConnell has zero influence with the Tea Party (who are funding a tough primary against him, btw) and very little with the House Republicans (though he probably has a good relationship with Boehner).

Expecting Reid to have any influence is plain unrealistic.

 

[Lutherman2112]

So the latest demands from the House GOP on Debt Limit: (please note, House GOP will not allow a clean Debt Limit increase)

- 6 Week Debt Limit increase

- Lankford bill on government shutdowns

- Income verification measures on ACA (even though ACA provides for these measures)

- Vitter Amendment on health coverage for Congressional staffers

Democrats demands:

- Clean Continuing Resolution

- Clean Debt Limit increase

 

[The Commish]

Say what you want about them from the other side of the aisle, but both Reid and McConnell know how to get a deal done. It's all just business to them. They're like Sam Sheepdog and Ralph the Wolf.

No need to inconvenience and burden the American people in situations like this. If they "know how to get it done" then do it and stop with the bull####.

Two thoughts...

The Senate doesn't control the House. So no matter what Reid and McConnell thought they couldn't really prevent it.

And there's a process to all this. Things that are possible today weren't possible three weeks ago before Republicans saw how badly this would play out for them.

I don't know of anything preventing them of going to talk with their counterparts in the House. If they are as good as advertised, they'd have figured something out.

Honestly? This is just more "blame everyone" foolishness.

Mitch McConnell has zero influence with the Tea Party (who are funding a tough primary against him, btw) and very little with the House Republicans (though he probably has a good relationship with Boehner).

Expecting Reid to have any influence is plain unrealistic.

No...it isn't. Perhaps you should have said "they know how to get things done in the Senate"....that's one part of this....when you say "get things done" and they aren't done, I'm left wondering WTF you're talking about. If you want to suggest that they do a good job getting the Senate to agree, I won't disagree. I don't know off the top of my head but is the Tea Party the majority in the House? I'm told over and over again they are few in number. How are these "leaders" allowing them so much power?

 

[timschochet]

The news is pomising...I was in favor of the Collins compromise, but at this point I will be in favor of any kind of compromise that gets a deal done. I hope the Republicans are left with at least something they can call a victory. This is extremely important IMO, because once this deal gets done, conservatives and Tea Party types are going to threaten to leave the Republican party and form their own party. To do so would of course be disastrous, both for the GOP and for themselves. Still, pride might force them into it if the GOP is forced to capitulate without any kind of concessions.

Any major split in the GOP would guarantee that Democrats dominate American politics for the next two decades. Don't want to see that, myself.

 

[timschochet]

Mitch McConnell to announce a deal within the next few hours, per ABC news...

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Boehner reportedly really enjoys being Speaker of the House, but you couldn't pay me enough money to do that job.

If the Senate produces a bipartisan agreement that Obama OKs Boehner is either going to have to piss off the Tea Party and pass it with Democratic votes or be public enemy #1. Neither one sounds like much fun.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Say what you want about them from the other side of the aisle, but both Reid and McConnell know how to get a deal done. It's all just business to them. They're like Sam Sheepdog and Ralph the Wolf.

No need to inconvenience and burden the American people in situations like this. If they "know how to get it done" then do it and stop with the bull####.

Two thoughts...

The Senate doesn't control the House. So no matter what Reid and McConnell thought they couldn't really prevent it.

And there's a process to all this. Things that are possible today weren't possible three weeks ago before Republicans saw how badly this would play out for them.

I don't know of anything preventing them of going to talk with their counterparts in the House. If they are as good as advertised, they'd have figured something out.

Honestly? This is just more "blame everyone" foolishness.

Mitch McConnell has zero influence with the Tea Party (who are funding a tough primary against him, btw) and very little with the House Republicans (though he probably has a good relationship with Boehner).

Expecting Reid to have any influence is plain unrealistic.

No...it isn't. Perhaps you should have said "they know how to get things done in the Senate"....that's one part of this....when you say "get things done" and they aren't done, I'm left wondering WTF you're talking about. If you want to suggest that they do a good job getting the Senate to agree, I won't disagree. I don't know off the top of my head but is the Tea Party the majority in the House? I'm told over and over again they are few in number. How are these "leaders" allowing them so much power?

That's a great question for Boehner. As Speaker of the House he holds near dictatorial power there. The House minority leader has almost no power.

 

[shader]

Mitch McConnell to announce a deal within the next few hours, per ABC news...

Tim, I know I've wasted an hour or so of my life reading this thread from time to time. The fact that this will soon be over and a forgotten asterisk in the historical record makes me feel like I've completely wasted my time on this subject. I can't imagine how you feel.

 

[timschochet]

A lot of the criticism against the Tea Party is very simplistic and misplaced, IMO. They are called nothing more than the right wing of the Republican party. This is not true; the Tea Party, like any successful populist movement, has managed to garner members of the public who were not previously involved in politics. They are called racist. This is not true and it is insulting: although many racists are certainly going to be sympathetic to the Tea Party because of their opposition to Obama, the reverse is not true. (It also should be pointed out that the Tea Party was first formed not in opposition to Obama, but to Bush's TARP policy.) They are accused of being led and manipulated by a few right wing billionaires like the Koch Brothers. But anyone who makes this claim really doesn't understand populism at all.

The Tea Partiers are for the most part good, decent people who are truly concerned with the the problems this country faces, and feel that government spending and taxation is unsustainable. In their passion, they are no different from abolitionists in the 19th century or civil rights activists in the 20th century. But herein lies the problem: the American economy is not the same sort of simple, right and wrong issue like slavery or Jim Crow were: economics is complicated, and when you attempt to apply passionate, either-or moralistic solutions, you're likely to make things worse than before. This is something that Ayn Rand, for all her intellectual brilliance, never understood. The Tea Party has much to be admired, but it is unwise for us to accept their ideas.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Mitch McConnell to announce a deal within the next few hours, per ABC news...

The Democrats agree to a 0.00000000000001% cut in federal highway aid to designated hurricane states to be decided at a future date, while the Republicans agree to officially self flogging at the hands of Obama in front of the Washington memorial every Friday and on the first day of the month they agree to kiss Obama's ### for letting them have this deal.

 

[timschochet]

Mitch McConnell to announce a deal within the next few hours, per ABC news...

Tim, I know I've wasted an hour or so of my life reading this thread from time to time. The fact that this will soon be over and a forgotten asterisk in the historical record makes me feel like I've completely wasted my time on this subject. I can't imagine how you feel.

I enjoy political discussion and debate. As absurd as some of the discussion has been (both here and elsewhere) the issues really are very serious. If the result of this agreement is that we don't see any more shutdowns or debt ceiling hostage taking in the future, it will be a long term victory no matter how many people dismiss it. (Though as I write this, I am listening to Michelle Bachmann on the radio predict that there will be all dozens of more shutdowns until Obamacare is ultimately removed.)

 

[Joe T]

Mitch McConnell to announce a deal within the next few hours, per ABC news...

Tim, I know I've wasted an hour or so of my life reading this thread from time to time. The fact that this will soon be over and a forgotten asterisk in the historical record makes me feel like I've completely wasted my time on this subject. I can't imagine how you feel.

 

[Scoresman]

Mitch McConnell to announce a deal within the next few hours, per ABC news...

Tim, I know I've wasted an hour or so of my life reading this thread from time to time. The fact that this will soon be over and a forgotten asterisk in the historical record makes me feel like I've completely wasted my time on this subject. I can't imagine how you feel.

I enjoy political discussion and debate. As absurd as some of the discussion has been (both here and elsewhere) the issues really are very serious. If the result of this agreement is that we don't see any more shutdowns or debt ceiling hostage taking in the future, it will be a long term victory no matter how many people dismiss it. (Though as I write this, I am listening to Michelle Bachmann on the radio predict that there will be all dozens of more shutdowns until Obamacare is ultimately removed.)

Michelle Bachman is certifiably insane and so is anyone who voted/would vote for her.

 

[Joe T]

I really hope this deal gets done so that lake parks and boat ramps open back up this weekend. The weather is great right now.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Barely one in five Americans (21 percent) approve of the way Republicans in Congress are handling negotiations over the budget, while nearly three quarters disapprove (74 percent).

Oof.

Other than support for a President during a war (on the + side) or something like Watergate you just don't see those kinds of numbers very often. Dems are at 33/63 (-30) and still lead by twenty-three points over Repubicans (-53).

 

[Rush Limbaugh Fan]

A lot of the criticism against the Tea Party is very simplistic and misplaced, IMO. They are called nothing more than the right wing of the Republican party. This is not true; the Tea Party, like any successful populist movement, has managed to garner members of the public who were not previously involved in politics. They are called racist. This is not true and it is insulting: although many racists are certainly going to be sympathetic to the Tea Party because of their opposition to Obama, the reverse is not true. (It also should be pointed out that the Tea Party was first formed not in opposition to Obama, but to Bush's TARP policy.) They are accused of being led and manipulated by a few right wing billionaires like the Koch Brothers. But anyone who makes this claim really doesn't understand populism at all.

The Tea Partiers are for the most part good, decent people who are truly concerned with the the problems this country faces, and feel that government spending and taxation is unsustainable. In their passion, they are no different from abolitionists in the 19th century or civil rights activists in the 20th century. But herein lies the problem: the American economy is not the same sort of simple, right and wrong issue like slavery or Jim Crow were: economics is complicated, and when you attempt to apply passionate, either-or moralistic solutions, you're likely to make things worse than before. This is something that Ayn Rand, for all her intellectual brilliance, never understood. The Tea Party has much to be admired, but it is unwise for us to accept their ideas.

You're a ####### idiot.

 

[Joe T]

A lot of the criticism against the Tea Party is very simplistic and misplaced, IMO. They are called nothing more than the right wing of the Republican party. This is not true; the Tea Party, like any successful populist movement, has managed to garner members of the public who were not previously involved in politics. They are called racist. This is not true and it is insulting: although many racists are certainly going to be sympathetic to the Tea Party because of their opposition to Obama, the reverse is not true. (It also should be pointed out that the Tea Party was first formed not in opposition to Obama, but to Bush's TARP policy.) They are accused of being led and manipulated by a few right wing billionaires like the Koch Brothers. But anyone who makes this claim really doesn't understand populism at all.

The Tea Partiers are for the most part good, decent people who are truly concerned with the the problems this country faces, and feel that government spending and taxation is unsustainable. In their passion, they are no different from abolitionists in the 19th century or civil rights activists in the 20th century. But herein lies the problem: the American economy is not the same sort of simple, right and wrong issue like slavery or Jim Crow were: economics is complicated, and when you attempt to apply passionate, either-or moralistic solutions, you're likely to make things worse than before. This is something that Ayn Rand, for all her intellectual brilliance, never understood. The Tea Party has much to be admired, but it is unwise for us to accept their ideas.

You're a ####### idiot.

 

[Scoresman]

A lot of the criticism against the Tea Party is very simplistic and misplaced, IMO. They are called nothing more than the right wing of the Republican party. This is not true; the Tea Party, like any successful populist movement, has managed to garner members of the public who were not previously involved in politics. They are called racist. This is not true and it is insulting: although many racists are certainly going to be sympathetic to the Tea Party because of their opposition to Obama, the reverse is not true. (It also should be pointed out that the Tea Party was first formed not in opposition to Obama, but to Bush's TARP policy.) They are accused of being led and manipulated by a few right wing billionaires like the Koch Brothers. But anyone who makes this claim really doesn't understand populism at all.

The Tea Partiers are for the most part good, decent people who are truly concerned with the the problems this country faces, and feel that government spending and taxation is unsustainable. In their passion, they are no different from abolitionists in the 19th century or civil rights activists in the 20th century. But herein lies the problem: the American economy is not the same sort of simple, right and wrong issue like slavery or Jim Crow were: economics is complicated, and when you attempt to apply passionate, either-or moralistic solutions, you're likely to make things worse than before. This is something that Ayn Rand, for all her intellectual brilliance, never understood. The Tea Party has much to be admired, but it is unwise for us to accept their ideas.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/07/michele-bachmann-end-times_n_4060063.html

That is the kind of thing the Tea Party is saying these days. No, it wasn't said by some crazy cat woman calling into CSPAN, it was said by Michelle Bachman, a current Republican member of the United States House of Representatives.

 

[timschochet]

A lot of the criticism against the Tea Party is very simplistic and misplaced, IMO. They are called nothing more than the right wing of the Republican party. This is not true; the Tea Party, like any successful populist movement, has managed to garner members of the public who were not previously involved in politics. They are called racist. This is not true and it is insulting: although many racists are certainly going to be sympathetic to the Tea Party because of their opposition to Obama, the reverse is not true. (It also should be pointed out that the Tea Party was first formed not in opposition to Obama, but to Bush's TARP policy.) They are accused of being led and manipulated by a few right wing billionaires like the Koch Brothers. But anyone who makes this claim really doesn't understand populism at all.

The Tea Partiers are for the most part good, decent people who are truly concerned with the the problems this country faces, and feel that government spending and taxation is unsustainable. In their passion, they are no different from abolitionists in the 19th century or civil rights activists in the 20th century. But herein lies the problem: the American economy is not the same sort of simple, right and wrong issue like slavery or Jim Crow were: economics is complicated, and when you attempt to apply passionate, either-or moralistic solutions, you're likely to make things worse than before. This is something that Ayn Rand, for all her intellectual brilliance, never understood. The Tea Party has much to be admired, but it is unwise for us to accept their ideas.

You're a ####### idiot.

 

[shader]

Mitch McConnell to announce a deal within the next few hours, per ABC news...

Tim, I know I've wasted an hour or so of my life reading this thread from time to time. The fact that this will soon be over and a forgotten asterisk in the historical record makes me feel like I've completely wasted my time on this subject. I can't imagine how you feel.

I enjoy political discussion and debate. As absurd as some of the discussion has been (both here and elsewhere) the issues really are very serious. If the result of this agreement is that we don't see any more shutdowns or debt ceiling hostage taking in the future, it will be a long term victory no matter how many people dismiss it. (Though as I write this, I am listening to Michelle Bachmann on the radio predict that there will be all dozens of more shutdowns until Obamacare is ultimately removed.)

There have been shutdowns plenty of times in the past few decades, and there are always negotiations around debt ceiling time. I predict nothing will change. These guys in Washington aren't going to all of a sudden start getting along.

 

[timschochet]

A lot of the criticism against the Tea Party is very simplistic and misplaced, IMO. They are called nothing more than the right wing of the Republican party. This is not true; the Tea Party, like any successful populist movement, has managed to garner members of the public who were not previously involved in politics. They are called racist. This is not true and it is insulting: although many racists are certainly going to be sympathetic to the Tea Party because of their opposition to Obama, the reverse is not true. (It also should be pointed out that the Tea Party was first formed not in opposition to Obama, but to Bush's TARP policy.) They are accused of being led and manipulated by a few right wing billionaires like the Koch Brothers. But anyone who makes this claim really doesn't understand populism at all.

The Tea Partiers are for the most part good, decent people who are truly concerned with the the problems this country faces, and feel that government spending and taxation is unsustainable. In their passion, they are no different from abolitionists in the 19th century or civil rights activists in the 20th century. But herein lies the problem: the American economy is not the same sort of simple, right and wrong issue like slavery or Jim Crow were: economics is complicated, and when you attempt to apply passionate, either-or moralistic solutions, you're likely to make things worse than before. This is something that Ayn Rand, for all her intellectual brilliance, never understood. The Tea Party has much to be admired, but it is unwise for us to accept their ideas.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/07/michele-bachmann-end-times_n_4060063.html

That is the kind of thing the Tea Party is saying these days. No, it wasn't said by some crazy cat woman calling into CSPAN, it was said by Michelle Bachman, a current Republican member of the United States House of Representatives.

I'm very familiar with Michelle. But I was referring specifically to the the people who vote for these clowns. They're not bad people, that's all I'm saying. They're just deluded into believing this crap.

 

[timschochet]

A lot of the criticism against the Tea Party is very simplistic and misplaced, IMO. They are called nothing more than the right wing of the Republican party. This is not true; the Tea Party, like any successful populist movement, has managed to garner members of the public who were not previously involved in politics. They are called racist. This is not true and it is insulting: although many racists are certainly going to be sympathetic to the Tea Party because of their opposition to Obama, the reverse is not true. (It also should be pointed out that the Tea Party was first formed not in opposition to Obama, but to Bush's TARP policy.) They are accused of being led and manipulated by a few right wing billionaires like the Koch Brothers. But anyone who makes this claim really doesn't understand populism at all.

The Tea Partiers are for the most part good, decent people who are truly concerned with the the problems this country faces, and feel that government spending and taxation is unsustainable. In their passion, they are no different from abolitionists in the 19th century or civil rights activists in the 20th century. But herein lies the problem: the American economy is not the same sort of simple, right and wrong issue like slavery or Jim Crow were: economics is complicated, and when you attempt to apply passionate, either-or moralistic solutions, you're likely to make things worse than before. This is something that Ayn Rand, for all her intellectual brilliance, never understood. The Tea Party has much to be admired, but it is unwise for us to accept their ideas.

You're a ####### idiot.

For some reason, that made me think of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft8Z5VPTHS0

 

[glock]

Has this- House Rule XXII, Clause 4, and the change made to it by the GOP been discussed? because I can't find it up in here...??

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Mitch McConnell to announce a deal within the next few hours, per ABC news...

Tim, I know I've wasted an hour or so of my life reading this thread from time to time. The fact that this will soon be over and a forgotten asterisk in the historical record makes me feel like I've completely wasted my time on this subject. I can't imagine how you feel.

I enjoy political discussion and debate. As absurd as some of the discussion has been (both here and elsewhere) the issues really are very serious. If the result of this agreement is that we don't see any more shutdowns or debt ceiling hostage taking in the future, it will be a long term victory no matter how many people dismiss it. (Though as I write this, I am listening to Michelle Bachmann on the radio predict that there will be all dozens of more shutdowns until Obamacare is ultimately removed.)

Michelle Bachman is certifiably insane and so is anyone who voted/would vote for her.

She almost lost the last election in her GM'ed district.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

The outline of the emerging Senate deal is this: The government is funded until Jan. 15. The debt ceiling is lifted until Feb. 7. There are a handful of small Affordable Care Act changes: Stronger income verification, which Republicans want, and a one-year delay on the reinsurance tax, which Democrats want.Oh, and there's a bicameral budget committee that needs to report back by Dec. 13.


The timing of all this is designed to create a fight about sequestration. The Jan. 15 deadline means funding for the federal government runs out at the exact moment sequestration's deeper cuts kick in. The Dec. 13 deadline means that the full House and Senate would have time to consider any package of recommendations the bicameral committee comes up with, if the committee actually manages to come up with anything.

The deal isn't official yet. It hasn't passed the Senate yet. And it certainly hasn't passed the House yet. But if it does clear those hurdles -- and, again, that's a big if -- it'll mean Republicans and Democrats have agreed to take what began as a fight over the Affordable Care Act and make it into a fight over sequestration.

That's what the Democrats want. It's also what some Republicans, including Rep. Paul Ryan and Grover Norquist want. But it's not been what the Ted Cruz wing of the Republican Party wants. The question now is how much pull they really have. This, from Robert Costa, suggests the answer might be "less than they did a few weeks ago":

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

So basically government is reopened, the debt limit is raised and both sides got a small concession (much smaller than previously mentioned). And we have about three months to have the budget talks Dems wanted all along.

 

[Rush Limbaugh Fan]

A lot of the criticism against the Tea Party is very simplistic and misplaced, IMO. They are called nothing more than the right wing of the Republican party. This is not true; the Tea Party, like any successful populist movement, has managed to garner members of the public who were not previously involved in politics. They are called racist. This is not true and it is insulting: although many racists are certainly going to be sympathetic to the Tea Party because of their opposition to Obama, the reverse is not true. (It also should be pointed out that the Tea Party was first formed not in opposition to Obama, but to Bush's TARP policy.) They are accused of being led and manipulated by a few right wing billionaires like the Koch Brothers. But anyone who makes this claim really doesn't understand populism at all.

The Tea Partiers are for the most part good, decent people who are truly concerned with the the problems this country faces, and feel that government spending and taxation is unsustainable. In their passion, they are no different from abolitionists in the 19th century or civil rights activists in the 20th century. But herein lies the problem: the American economy is not the same sort of simple, right and wrong issue like slavery or Jim Crow were: economics is complicated, and when you attempt to apply passionate, either-or moralistic solutions, you're likely to make things worse than before. This is something that Ayn Rand, for all her intellectual brilliance, never understood. The Tea Party has much to be admired, but it is unwise for us to accept their ideas.

Ya know, it's hilarious how wrong you are. Saying this movement is not about racism? One common goal of the tea party is to reject any single kind of amnesty. This stems solely on racism. It is the common core of the tea party.

ETA: And Ayn Rand's intellectual brilliance? What?

 

[timschochet]

A lot of the criticism against the Tea Party is very simplistic and misplaced, IMO. They are called nothing more than the right wing of the Republican party. This is not true; the Tea Party, like any successful populist movement, has managed to garner members of the public who were not previously involved in politics. They are called racist. This is not true and it is insulting: although many racists are certainly going to be sympathetic to the Tea Party because of their opposition to Obama, the reverse is not true. (It also should be pointed out that the Tea Party was first formed not in opposition to Obama, but to Bush's TARP policy.) They are accused of being led and manipulated by a few right wing billionaires like the Koch Brothers. But anyone who makes this claim really doesn't understand populism at all.

The Tea Partiers are for the most part good, decent people who are truly concerned with the the problems this country faces, and feel that government spending and taxation is unsustainable. In their passion, they are no different from abolitionists in the 19th century or civil rights activists in the 20th century. But herein lies the problem: the American economy is not the same sort of simple, right and wrong issue like slavery or Jim Crow were: economics is complicated, and when you attempt to apply passionate, either-or moralistic solutions, you're likely to make things worse than before. This is something that Ayn Rand, for all her intellectual brilliance, never understood. The Tea Party has much to be admired, but it is unwise for us to accept their ideas.

Ya know, it's hilarious how wrong you are. Saying this movement is not about racism? One common goal of the tea party is to reject any single kind of amnesty. This stems solely on racism. It is the common core of the tea party.

I would bet that there is no one in this forum who is more in favor of amnesty for illegal immigrants than I am. But to suggest that all those who oppose it are racist is just not correct. It's also pretty insulting.

 

[Rush Limbaugh Fan]

A lot of the criticism against the Tea Party is very simplistic and misplaced, IMO. They are called nothing more than the right wing of the Republican party. This is not true; the Tea Party, like any successful populist movement, has managed to garner members of the public who were not previously involved in politics. They are called racist. This is not true and it is insulting: although many racists are certainly going to be sympathetic to the Tea Party because of their opposition to Obama, the reverse is not true. (It also should be pointed out that the Tea Party was first formed not in opposition to Obama, but to Bush's TARP policy.) They are accused of being led and manipulated by a few right wing billionaires like the Koch Brothers. But anyone who makes this claim really doesn't understand populism at all.

The Tea Partiers are for the most part good, decent people who are truly concerned with the the problems this country faces, and feel that government spending and taxation is unsustainable. In their passion, they are no different from abolitionists in the 19th century or civil rights activists in the 20th century. But herein lies the problem: the American economy is not the same sort of simple, right and wrong issue like slavery or Jim Crow were: economics is complicated, and when you attempt to apply passionate, either-or moralistic solutions, you're likely to make things worse than before. This is something that Ayn Rand, for all her intellectual brilliance, never understood. The Tea Party has much to be admired, but it is unwise for us to accept their ideas.

Ya know, it's hilarious how wrong you are. Saying this movement is not about racism? One common goal of the tea party is to reject any single kind of amnesty. This stems solely on racism. It is the common core of the tea party.

I would bet that there is no one in this forum who is more in favor of amnesty for illegal immigrants than I am. But to suggest that all those who oppose it are racist is just not correct. It's also pretty insulting.

Sometimes the truth is insulting.

 

[MaxThreshold]

A lot of the criticism against the Tea Party is very simplistic and misplaced, IMO. They are called nothing more than the right wing of the Republican party. This is not true; the Tea Party, like any successful populist movement, has managed to garner members of the public who were not previously involved in politics. They are called racist. This is not true and it is insulting: although many racists are certainly going to be sympathetic to the Tea Party because of their opposition to Obama, the reverse is not true. (It also should be pointed out that the Tea Party was first formed not in opposition to Obama, but to Bush's TARP policy.) They are accused of being led and manipulated by a few right wing billionaires like the Koch Brothers. But anyone who makes this claim really doesn't understand populism at all.

The Tea Partiers are for the most part good, decent people who are truly concerned with the the problems this country faces, and feel that government spending and taxation is unsustainable. In their passion, they are no different from abolitionists in the 19th century or civil rights activists in the 20th century. But herein lies the problem: the American economy is not the same sort of simple, right and wrong issue like slavery or Jim Crow were: economics is complicated, and when you attempt to apply passionate, either-or moralistic solutions, you're likely to make things worse than before. This is something that Ayn Rand, for all her intellectual brilliance, never understood. The Tea Party has much to be admired, but it is unwise for us to accept their ideas.

Ya know, it's hilarious how wrong you are. Saying this movement is not about racism? One common goal of the tea party is to reject any single kind of amnesty. This stems solely on racism. It is the common core of the tea party.

I would bet that there is no one in this forum who is more in favor of amnesty for illegal immigrants than I am. But to suggest that all those who oppose it are racist is just not correct. It's also pretty insulting.

Sometimes the truth is insulting.

How would you know what "truth" is? You've been spouting extreme left talking points (read: lies and propoganda) the whole time.

However, calling other's racist because they don't subscribe to your extreme left views is SOP for lefty zealots like yourself.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

A lot of the criticism against the Tea Party is very simplistic and misplaced, IMO. They are called nothing more than the right wing of the Republican party. This is not true; the Tea Party, like any successful populist movement, has managed to garner members of the public who were not previously involved in politics. They are called racist. This is not true and it is insulting: although many racists are certainly going to be sympathetic to the Tea Party because of their opposition to Obama, the reverse is not true. (It also should be pointed out that the Tea Party was first formed not in opposition to Obama, but to Bush's TARP policy.) They are accused of being led and manipulated by a few right wing billionaires like the Koch Brothers. But anyone who makes this claim really doesn't understand populism at all.

The Tea Partiers are for the most part good, decent people who are truly concerned with the the problems this country faces, and feel that government spending and taxation is unsustainable. In their passion, they are no different from abolitionists in the 19th century or civil rights activists in the 20th century. But herein lies the problem: the American economy is not the same sort of simple, right and wrong issue like slavery or Jim Crow were: economics is complicated, and when you attempt to apply passionate, either-or moralistic solutions, you're likely to make things worse than before. This is something that Ayn Rand, for all her intellectual brilliance, never understood. The Tea Party has much to be admired, but it is unwise for us to accept their ideas.

Ya know, it's hilarious how wrong you are. Saying this movement is not about racism? One common goal of the tea party is to reject any single kind of amnesty. This stems solely on racism. It is the common core of the tea party.

I would bet that there is no one in this forum who is more in favor of amnesty for illegal immigrants than I am. But to suggest that all those who oppose it are racist is just not correct. It's also pretty insulting.

Sometimes the truth is insulting.

How would you know what "truth" is? You've been spouting extreme left talking points (read: lies and propoganda) the whole time.

However, calling other's racist because they don't subscribe to your extreme left views is SOP for lefty zealots like yourself.

You know you hit a sour spot by the pitch of their whining.

 

[dparker713]

A lot of the criticism against the Tea Party is very simplistic and misplaced, IMO. They are called nothing more than the right wing of the Republican party. This is not true; the Tea Party, like any successful populist movement, has managed to garner members of the public who were not previously involved in politics. They are called racist. This is not true and it is insulting: although many racists are certainly going to be sympathetic to the Tea Party because of their opposition to Obama, the reverse is not true. (It also should be pointed out that the Tea Party was first formed not in opposition to Obama, but to Bush's TARP policy.) They are accused of being led and manipulated by a few right wing billionaires like the Koch Brothers. But anyone who makes this claim really doesn't understand populism at all.

The Tea Partiers are for the most part good, decent people who are truly concerned with the the problems this country faces, and feel that government spending and taxation is unsustainable. In their passion, they are no different from abolitionists in the 19th century or civil rights activists in the 20th century. But herein lies the problem: the American economy is not the same sort of simple, right and wrong issue like slavery or Jim Crow were: economics is complicated, and when you attempt to apply passionate, either-or moralistic solutions, you're likely to make things worse than before. This is something that Ayn Rand, for all her intellectual brilliance, never understood. The Tea Party has much to be admired, but it is unwise for us to accept their ideas.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/07/michele-bachmann-end-times_n_4060063.html

That is the kind of thing the Tea Party is saying these days. No, it wasn't said by some crazy cat woman calling into CSPAN, it was said by Michelle Bachman, a current Republican member of the United States House of Representatives.

I'm very familiar with Michelle. But I was referring specifically to the the people who vote for these clowns. They're not bad people, that's all I'm saying. They're just deluded into believing this crap.

Being stupid/gullible does make them bad people.

 

[dparker713]

A lot of the criticism against the Tea Party is very simplistic and misplaced, IMO. They are called nothing more than the right wing of the Republican party. This is not true; the Tea Party, like any successful populist movement, has managed to garner members of the public who were not previously involved in politics. They are called racist. This is not true and it is insulting: although many racists are certainly going to be sympathetic to the Tea Party because of their opposition to Obama, the reverse is not true. (It also should be pointed out that the Tea Party was first formed not in opposition to Obama, but to Bush's TARP policy.) They are accused of being led and manipulated by a few right wing billionaires like the Koch Brothers. But anyone who makes this claim really doesn't understand populism at all.

The Tea Partiers are for the most part good, decent people who are truly concerned with the the problems this country faces, and feel that government spending and taxation is unsustainable. In their passion, they are no different from abolitionists in the 19th century or civil rights activists in the 20th century. But herein lies the problem: the American economy is not the same sort of simple, right and wrong issue like slavery or Jim Crow were: economics is complicated, and when you attempt to apply passionate, either-or moralistic solutions, you're likely to make things worse than before. This is something that Ayn Rand, for all her intellectual brilliance, never understood. The Tea Party has much to be admired, but it is unwise for us to accept their ideas.

Ya know, it's hilarious how wrong you are. Saying this movement is not about racism? One common goal of the tea party is to reject any single kind of amnesty. This stems solely on racism. It is the common core of the tea party.

I would bet that there is no one in this forum who is more in favor of amnesty for illegal immigrants than I am. But to suggest that all those who oppose it are racist is just not correct. It's also pretty insulting.

Sometimes the truth is insulting.

I oppose amnesty for illegals. They broke the law and there should be consequences. You can choose to read racial animus into that position if you so choose. But that's more a reflection on you than me.