The Tea Party is back in business! (1 Viewer)

[jon_mx]

Somehow this reminds me of Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown.

 

[[icon]]

Senate now giving each other handies across the aisle. Way to govern and make laws Congress!!!! We're all very proud of your accomplishments two weeks after this #### should have been decided! Now kick the can down the road again, that makes perfect sense.

Reminds me of this video

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Thankfully now, we'll have Brandon Marshall law. /icon

 

[Fennis]

Thankfully now, we'll have Brandon Marshall law. /icon

The sun was in my eyes, I was thinking about George Marshall. No, it was my iPhone.

 

[parasaurolophus]

How is the panic coming along in here?

The sun has not come up yet, maybe the sky fell. Oh wait, the sun doesn't come up for another hour, carry on.

It's weird how proud some people are of being flat-earthers.

By repeating the same nonsense does not make it true, chicken-little.

Honest question, do you believe you understand the economy and the potential impacts better than the large majority of economists who say this is a really bad thing? Or do you just not care because you believe you are positioned to weather any repercussions?

What impacts exactly are you afraid of? Put a probability on it.

crickets

First Order Effects

* US borrowing becomes more expensive. The US has to pay a higher interest rate on its borrowing. Some organizations which are required to hold X% of their money in a certain level of secure wealth will have to divest themselves of US bonds. This necessitates more spending cuts/more taxes to keep up on the same amount of debt.

* Hastens the flight from the dollar as the reserve global currency, causing the dollar to lose value and Americans to lose purchase power abroad. This in turn brings a lower US standard of living.

Second Order Effects

* Total financial meltdown. Finance deals and contracts which are backstopped by US treasuries are forced to be unwound. Possibility of repeat of 2009.

But hey, you can scratch your ### and say it's all make-believe because once again, the adults took care of business.

If you don't believe that the size of the debt matters(not saying this applies to you matthias since I don't really care to read up on your thoughts on this but there are plenty in this thread that don't) why would the cost to borrow matter at all? We could simply borrow more money to pay the increased cost. No big deal.

 

[humpback]

Somehow this reminds me of Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown.

Be nice to Tim.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

How better to help the budget than have millions of new people paying taxes?

Sources tell me, however, that you might not agree with this idea...

Legalize and tax pot?

Probably irrelevant to this thread, but its my solution to everything budget-related. Carry on.

Not just pot but also prostitution. Would pay off the national debt in two weeks.

 

[Guest]

Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm glad that's over.

On the other hand, I'll probably never get to kill someone with that trident I just ordered. :(

I'll never be able to sell the bunker I bought in December '99 now.

 

[Henry Ford]

How better to help the budget than have millions of new people paying taxes?

Sources tell me, however, that you might not agree with this idea...

Legalize and tax pot?

Probably irrelevant to this thread, but its my solution to everything budget-related. Carry on.

Not just pot but also prostitution. Would pay off the national debt in two weeks.

With what New York politicians are paying, I don't think it would take that long.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Total win for Democrats -- especially Obama. Not only did he stay true to his word that he wasn't going to give anything up to get govt open and the debt limit raised, his position going into the upcoming budget talks is stronger.

And Ted Cruz trying to slit the throats of his fellow Republicans in the Senate isn't going to go down easy either. Cruz was just on TV openly fomenting a civil war in his own party at the same moment McConnell was making his Senate speech. That just isn't done by Republican Senators.

I don't envy more moderate Republicans. The tension between writing the Tea Party types off and working with Dems to come up with a negotiated settlement on the long-running budget wars and fear of being primaried by a Tea Party challenger will be interesting to watch.

 

[Fennis]

Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm glad that's over.

On the other hand, I'll probably never get to kill someone with that trident I just ordered. :(

I'll never be able to sell the bunker I bought in December '99 now.



so much for being "well-prepared"

 

[The Commish]

And how likely are you putting each of those at (AKA Probability), and when you make a very vague statement I expect you to not be so vague since that is all you libs are good for in this thread, well that and posting pictures of ostriches with their head in the sand, which is the same thing.

I'd say 100% on all of them in a 6-month, 10-year, and 1-week timeframe, respectively.You've brought ****-all to this thread.

so you are telling me the sky is falling (in your world)



ETA: and yet your predictions are still as vague as can be, you just know SOMETHING bad is going to happen, but you don't have the intellect to quantify it.

I'm telling you that the adults in the room are fixing the problem so that the dam doesn't burst. But hey... what do Wall Street CEOs and economists know? You are Internet Tough Guy and you will not be denied!!!

AT BEST...they are patching the problem and that's being generous.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Total loss for everyone involved, especially the people of these great United States

 

[joffer]

Gingrich on CNN right now reminding everyone why he's irrelevant now.

 

[humpback]

Total win for Democrats -- especially Obama.

Shocker!

 

[Amused to Death]

So to listen to Rush Limbaugh over the web, you need to buy a subscription? I want to listen to the melt down.

Found it, and its worth it. Now the sky is falling. And Mitch McConnell is the devil.

 

[[icon]]

Total loss for everyone involved, especially the people of these great United States

Yep

 

[timschochet]

One of the main reasons the Tea Party keeps failing to obtain their goals is because they're intemperate. Conservatives want immediate change to our economic system- for instance, a balanced budget. But even if such a thing was a preferable idea, it would take years, probably decades, to achieve it without a disruption which the American people will never tolerate. No matter how much the Tea Party screams and yells about financial catastrophe down the road, the public is simply not going to accept drastic changes now in order to prevent that catastrophe, any more than they will accept drastic changes in order to prevent the global warming catastrophe. We as a people prefer to take our chances.

Max Weber, the great political scientist, wrote that political change comes in extremely slow increments. All you have to do is look at American history to know that this is so. The civil rights movement was around for over 60 years before it finally had success in the 1950s. There had been talk of health care reform for over 50 years prior to the Affordable Care Act. We move at a snail's pace. Whether that is ultimately good or bad, it's also reality.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Total win for Democrats -- especially Obama.

Maybe from a Democrats view. As an Independent I don't think the Democrats come off looking any better than the Republicans. And anyone who celebrates this as a win is an idiot.

 

[Slapdash]

I'm telling you that the adults in the room are fixing the problem so that the dam doesn't burst.

AT BEST...they are patching the problem and that's being generous.

Sure. There's no long-term solution here. But the country is still drastically different for not defaulting on its debt.

Should have just gotten rid of the debt limit altogether. Can't wait for the next time we have these shenanigans.

 

[igbomb]

Total win for Democrats -- especially Obama.

Maybe from a Democrats view. As an Independent I don't think the Democrats come off looking any better than the Republicans. And anyone who celebrates this as a win is an idiot.

I don't think you're as independent as you claim to be.

 

[TheIronSheik]

I'm telling you that the adults in the room are fixing the problem so that the dam doesn't burst.

AT BEST...they are patching the problem and that's being generous.

Sure. There's no long-term solution here. But the country is still drastically different for not defaulting on its debt.

Should have just gotten rid of the debt limit altogether. Can't wait for the next time we have these shenanigans.

Just out of curiosity, when is this scheduled to happen again.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

The Tea Party–inspired eruptions that have recurred throughout Obama’s Presidency represent something more complicated than a reactionary backlash to the sight of a black President; they are a product of the way he so tidily represents the disparate strands of social history that brought us to this impasse. The problem isn’t that there’s a black President; it’s that the country has changed in ways that made Obama’s election possible.A half century ago, the Republican Party looked with envy at the youthful energy of the mass movements aligning themselves with the Democratic Party—until the 1968 Democratic Convention conveyed the pitfalls of grassroots politics. Today, it finds itself in a similar bind, caught in the narrow straits between movement and mob. John Boehner is not a Franklin Roosevelt; he’s not even a Sam Rayburn, and it’s his unenviable charge to corral elements that are, in effect, raging against math. The country regards the shutdown as a sign of government dysfunction, but for the implacable members of Boehner’s caucus, shutdown may simply be the ultimate form of limited government. Sixty-five years ago, the Dixiecrats spearheaded a movement toward the G.O.P. The Tea Party is an echo of that same movement, save for one distinction: in 2013, the rebels have nowhere left to go.

It is interesting to consider that the Tea Party is demographically quite similar to the Dixiecrats -- who fled the Democrats after WWII in opposition to the civil rights movement and other 'liberal' policies, and 20 years later were the targets of the Republicans' 'Southern Strategy'.

But now, with electoral math and the growth of Hispanic voters making continued Republican support of that strategy a loser where (as the quote asks) do the old Dixiecrats/Tea Partiers go? In other countries you see right-wing parties spring up around these ideas, but that can't happen here, in a two party system, without gutting conservative political power entirely. So there's a strong desire to avoid it.

Along with the need to address our long term budget issues, this might be the biggest political question the country faces going forward.

 

[Slapdash]

I'm telling you that the adults in the room are fixing the problem so that the dam doesn't burst.

AT BEST...they are patching the problem and that's being generous.

Sure. There's no long-term solution here. But the country is still drastically different for not defaulting on its debt.

Should have just gotten rid of the debt limit altogether. Can't wait for the next time we have these shenanigans.

Just out of curiosity, when is this scheduled to happen again.

Sounds like Feb 7th could be earlier or later depending on revenue favorability.

 

[snogger]

Pretty good write up on this "Solution" from USAToday

Remember that the national commission called Simpson-Bowles took most of 2010 to provide a detailed plan for long term fiscal recovery, and ultimately couldn't come to unanimity on it.

The following year, the Congressional "supercommittee" that was supposed to produce the alternative to sequester spent five months gnawing on the same bone before announcing it was hopelessly deadlocked.

Last year the so-called "fiscal cliff" was supposed to the be calamity that would drive Washington to embrace a long term solution. Yet here, less than a year later, more than half a million federal employees were sent home from work and the nation walked right up to the line of default.

And under the bargain unveiled by the Senate today, more than half a million federal employees are in danger of being sent home from work in January and the nation will be in danger of default in February.

Congress has not slain the dragon, only thrown a ball for it to fetch. The dragon will be back shortly.

In normal circumstances, this would be considered a crisis. Today, it is considered a solution.

:[SIZE=12pt]Confetti[/SIZE]:

 

[msommer]

I'm telling you that the adults in the room are fixing the problem so that the dam doesn't burst.

AT BEST...they are patching the problem and that's being generous.

Sure. There's no long-term solution here. But the country is still drastically different for not defaulting on its debt.

Should have just gotten rid of the debt limit altogether. Can't wait for the next time we have these shenanigans.

Just out of curiosity, when is this scheduled to happen again.

I've been trying this afternoon to find a number on how much the debt ceiling was to be raised and couldn't (at least in my limited attention span).

Anyway, 2013 deficit about 600 bn, so that may be a good number to start from. Then again isn't the war in Afganistan winding down? Maybe there is a bit of savings coming from that direction (who am I kidding, it's the military)

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Total win for Democrats -- especially Obama.

Maybe from a Democrats view. As an Independent I don't think the Democrats come off looking any better than the Republicans. And anyone who celebrates this as a win is an idiot.

This is a minority opinion. Approval numbers of Democrats fell by 10; Republicans dropped by 20.

But there's no real win here for anyone.

It's a zero sum game. Our system of governance ensures that voters have nowhere else to go. -10 vs - 20 = +10

And I wasn't celebrating it there (though I am celebrating, and think anything that reduces the power of the Tea Party is good for my country).

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

There are no policy concessions from the Democrats (income verification is already part of Obamacare). There are no procedural concessions from the Democrats. Just the opposite, in fact.Democrats managed to get the budget conference they've been pursuing for six months. They got a CR of the length they wanted and ending before the next sequestration cuts rather than six-month CR that Sen. Susan Collins proposed. They got a debt-ceiling increase all the way into February. This is far beyond what Democrats thought possible on Sept. 30.

But the strategy Ted Cruz managed to force on the GOP was so suicidal that Democrats felt comfortable forcing Republicans to cave completely. They were so confident that they managed to reject a deal proposed by Sen. Susan Collins and supported by many Senate Democrats because it funded the government for longer than the Democratic leadership preferred. That's a level of control over the outcome that Democrats never expected to have.

Going forward, not only will Republicans be afraid to shut down the government or threaten the debt ceiling again during this Congress, but if Republicans somehow end up doing it anyway, Democrats will be unafraid of the fight. As Democrats see it, if Republicans want to give a shutdown or a default another shot closer to the 2014 election, well, that's great news for Democratic congressional candidates.

 

[glumpy]

Pretty good write up on this "Solution" from USAToday

Remember that the national commission called Simpson-Bowles took most of 2010 to provide a detailed plan for long term fiscal recovery, and ultimately couldn't come to unanimity on it.

The following year, the Congressional "supercommittee" that was supposed to produce the alternative to sequester spent five months gnawing on the same bone before announcing it was hopelessly deadlocked.

Last year the so-called "fiscal cliff" was supposed to the be calamity that would drive Washington to embrace a long term solution. Yet here, less than a year later, more than half a million federal employees were sent home from work and the nation walked right up to the line of default.

And under the bargain unveiled by the Senate today, more than half a million federal employees are in danger of being sent home from work in January and the nation will be in danger of default in February.

Congress has not slain the dragon, only thrown a ball for it to fetch. The dragon will be back shortly.

In normal circumstances, this would be considered a crisis. Today, it is considered a solution.

:[SIZE=12pt]Confetti[/SIZE]:

:sigh: Our government at work.

 

[msommer]

Total win for Democrats -- especially Obama.

Maybe from a Democrats view. As an Independent I don't think the Democrats come off looking any better than the Republicans. And anyone who celebrates this as a win is an idiot.

This is a minority opinion. Approval numbers of Democrats fell by 10; Republicans dropped by 20.

But there's no real win here for anyone.

It's a zero sum game. Our system of governance ensures that voters have nowhere else to go. -10 vs - 20 = +10

And I wasn't celebrating it there (though I am celebrating, and think anything that reduces the power of the Tea Party is good for my country).

I for one think the Tea Party is just beginning. They may never be much stronger than they are now but the people that have voted for them in the past years didn't just all die today, It would be hard to see them vote establishment again before much, much more water has gne under the bridge. Remember the truckers that were to bring gridlock to DC. The rhetoric they used was not exactly channeling Rodney King

 

[TheIronSheik]

Total win for Democrats -- especially Obama.

Maybe from a Democrats view. As an Independent I don't think the Democrats come off looking any better than the Republicans. And anyone who celebrates this as a win is an idiot.

I don't think you're as independent as you claim to be.

Why? Because I don't agree with your views? I've stated in the past every single person I've voted for for POTUS. Obama is on the list of people I've voted for. Curious at why you think I'm not Independent?

 

[TheIronSheik]

Total win for Democrats -- especially Obama.

Maybe from a Democrats view. As an Independent I don't think the Democrats come off looking any better than the Republicans. And anyone who celebrates this as a win is an idiot.

This is a minority opinion. Approval numbers of Democrats fell by 10; Republicans dropped by 20.

But there's no real win here for anyone.

It's a zero sum game. Our system of governance ensures that voters have nowhere else to go. -10 vs - 20 = +10

And I wasn't celebrating it there (though I am celebrating, and think anything that reduces the power of the Tea Party is good for my country).

I should note that I wasn't implying you were celebrating. That wasn't a jab at you, by any means. Sorry if it came off that way.

I was saying that the people out there who are cheering their side for winning this are not very informed as to what we just put ourselves through.

 

[tom22406]

Pretty good write up on this "Solution" from USAToday

Remember that the national commission called Simpson-Bowles took most of 2010 to provide a detailed plan for long term fiscal recovery, and ultimately couldn't come to unanimity on it.

The following year, the Congressional "supercommittee" that was supposed to produce the alternative to sequester spent five months gnawing on the same bone before announcing it was hopelessly deadlocked.

Last year the so-called "fiscal cliff" was supposed to the be calamity that would drive Washington to embrace a long term solution. Yet here, less than a year later, more than half a million federal employees were sent home from work and the nation walked right up to the line of default.

And under the bargain unveiled by the Senate today, more than half a million federal employees are in danger of being sent home from work in January and the nation will be in danger of default in February.

Congress has not slain the dragon, only thrown a ball for it to fetch. The dragon will be back shortly.

In normal circumstances, this would be considered a crisis. Today, it is considered a solution.

:[SIZE=12pt]Confetti[/SIZE]:

:sigh: Our government at work.

 

[igbomb]

Total win for Democrats -- especially Obama.

Maybe from a Democrats view. As an Independent I don't think the Democrats come off looking any better than the Republicans. And anyone who celebrates this as a win is an idiot.

I don't think you're as independent as you claim to be.

Why? Because I don't agree with your views? I've stated in the past every single person I've voted for for POTUS. Obama is on the list of people I've voted for. Curious at why you think I'm not Independent?

Yeah, I shouldn't have been so snarky. I just don't see how anyone can try to apportion the blame on this very particular mess equally between the parties. When I see some rather right-leaning folks in here pointing the blame at the Repubs, I start to think that you must be pretty hard right leaning to think the Dems drove this bus at all.

Perhaps it isn't fair, and I certainly don't think you have to agree with me or be on the far-right.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Total win for Democrats -- especially Obama.

Maybe from a Democrats view. As an Independent I don't think the Democrats come off looking any better than the Republicans. And anyone who celebrates this as a win is an idiot.

I don't think you're as independent as you claim to be.

Why? Because I don't agree with your views? I've stated in the past every single person I've voted for for POTUS. Obama is on the list of people I've voted for. Curious at why you think I'm not Independent?

Yeah, I shouldn't have been so snarky. I just don't see how anyone can try to apportion the blame on this very particular mess equally between the parties. When I see some rather right-leaning folks in here pointing the blame at the Repubs, I start to think that you must be pretty hard right leaning to think the Dems drove this bus at all.

Perhaps it isn't fair, and I certainly don't think you have to agree with me or be on the far-right.

I don't lay the blame equally. Not even close. But that doesn't mean that both sides weren't wrong to some extent.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Total win for Democrats -- especially Obama.

Maybe from a Democrats view. As an Independent I don't think the Democrats come off looking any better than the Republicans. And anyone who celebrates this as a win is an idiot.

I don't think you're as independent as you claim to be.

Why? Because I don't agree with your views? I've stated in the past every single person I've voted for for POTUS. Obama is on the list of people I've voted for. Curious at why you think I'm not Independent?

Yeah, I shouldn't have been so snarky. I just don't see how anyone can try to apportion the blame on this very particular mess equally between the parties. When I see some rather right-leaning folks in here pointing the blame at the Repubs, I start to think that you must be pretty hard right leaning to think the Dems drove this bus at all.

Perhaps it isn't fair, and I certainly don't think you have to agree with me or be on the far-right.

Because the dems and Obama were willing to negotiate with Big Business and political cronies about Obamacare, but when the GOP rallied for the rest of the American people then suddenly there was no room to compromise or negotiate. THAT'S why there is blame to go around.

Anyone thinking that the Dems bear no responsibility here is nothing more than a pure partisan hack. On the partisan hack level of BST, Todd Andrews and wdcrob.

 

[spreagle]

So who won?

**********************

Sometimes when you win, you really lose, and sometimes when you lose, you really win, and sometimes when you win or lose, you actually tie, and sometimes when you tie, you actually win or lose. Winning or losing is all one organic mechanism, from which one extracts what one needsSometimes when you win, you really lose, and sometimes when you lose, you really win, and sometimes when you win or lose, you actually tie, and sometimes when you tie, you actually win or lose. Winning or losing is all one organic mechanism, from which one extracts what one needs.

Gloria Clemente, White Men Can't RunuptheNationalDebt

 

[jon_mx]

Total win for Democrats -- especially Obama.

Maybe from a Democrats view. As an Independent I don't think the Democrats come off looking any better than the Republicans. And anyone who celebrates this as a win is an idiot.

This is a minority opinion. Approval numbers of Democrats fell by 10; Republicans dropped by 20.

But there's no real win here for anyone.

It's a zero sum game. Our system of governance ensures that voters have nowhere else to go. -10 vs - 20 = +10

And I wasn't celebrating it there (though I am celebrating, and think anything that reduces the power of the Tea Party is good for my country).

The fight between establishment Republicans and grass-root conservatives has been going for over 50 years. This changes nothing except maybe people will shy away from the Tea Party label. There has always been this divide in the GOP and there always will be unless there is a major shift in the base of both parties.

 

[jon_mx]

So who won?

**********************

Sometimes when you win, you really lose, and sometimes when you lose, you really win, and sometimes when you win or lose, you actually tie, and sometimes when you tie, you actually win or lose. Winning or losing is all one organic mechanism, from which one extracts what one needsSometimes when you win, you really lose, and sometimes when you lose, you really win, and sometimes when you win or lose, you actually tie, and sometimes when you tie, you actually win or lose. Winning or losing is all one organic mechanism, from which one extracts what one needs.

Gloria Clemente, White Men Can't RunuptheNationalDebt

The winners or losers have yet to be determined. It is who responds the best to the problems facing this country and who is able to offer the best vision of the future. Anyone doing cartwheels right now is clueless.

 

[The Commish]

I'm telling you that the adults in the room are fixing the problem so that the dam doesn't burst.

AT BEST...they are patching the problem and that's being generous.

Sure. There's no long-term solution here. But the country is still drastically different for not defaulting on its debt.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

 

[humpback]

Pretty good write up on this "Solution" from USAToday

Remember that the national commission called Simpson-Bowles took most of 2010 to provide a detailed plan for long term fiscal recovery, and ultimately couldn't come to unanimity on it.

The following year, the Congressional "supercommittee" that was supposed to produce the alternative to sequester spent five months gnawing on the same bone before announcing it was hopelessly deadlocked.

Last year the so-called "fiscal cliff" was supposed to the be calamity that would drive Washington to embrace a long term solution. Yet here, less than a year later, more than half a million federal employees were sent home from work and the nation walked right up to the line of default.

And under the bargain unveiled by the Senate today, more than half a million federal employees are in danger of being sent home from work in January and the nation will be in danger of default in February.

Congress has not slain the dragon, only thrown a ball for it to fetch. The dragon will be back shortly.

In normal circumstances, this would be considered a crisis. Today, it is considered a solution.

:[SIZE=12pt]Confetti[/SIZE]:

"Just not enough time!"

 

[igbomb]

Total win for Democrats -- especially Obama.

Maybe from a Democrats view. As an Independent I don't think the Democrats come off looking any better than the Republicans. And anyone who celebrates this as a win is an idiot.

I don't think you're as independent as you claim to be.

Why? Because I don't agree with your views? I've stated in the past every single person I've voted for for POTUS. Obama is on the list of people I've voted for. Curious at why you think I'm not Independent?

Yeah, I shouldn't have been so snarky. I just don't see how anyone can try to apportion the blame on this very particular mess equally between the parties. When I see some rather right-leaning folks in here pointing the blame at the Repubs, I start to think that you must be pretty hard right leaning to think the Dems drove this bus at all.

Perhaps it isn't fair, and I certainly don't think you have to agree with me or be on the far-right.

Because the dems and Obama were willing to negotiate with Big Business and political cronies about Obamacare, but when the GOP rallied for the rest of the American people then suddenly there was no room to compromise or negotiate. THAT'S why there is blame to go around.

Anyone thinking that the Dems bear no responsibility here is nothing more than a pure partisan hack. On the partisan hack level of BST, Todd Andrews and wdcrob.

I know it doesn't matter to you that ObamaCare and the CR were two distinct and unrelated issues, but that distinction is enough for some of use to call BS on the whole strategy. I'm not personally convinced that ObamaCare isn't a steaming pile but the Republican strategy on this was ridiculous and petulant. If that makes me a partisan hack, so be it. I won't lose any sleep over it.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Sounds like Feb 7th could be earlier or later depending on revenue favorability.

Damn. What the hell is everyone going to argue about until then.

 

[Redwes25]

Total win for Democrats -- especially Obama.

Maybe from a Democrats view. As an Independent I don't think the Democrats come off looking any better than the Republicans. And anyone who celebrates this as a win is an idiot.

I don't think you're as independent as you claim to be.

Why? Because I don't agree with your views? I've stated in the past every single person I've voted for for POTUS. Obama is on the list of people I've voted for. Curious at why you think I'm not Independent?

Yeah, I shouldn't have been so snarky. I just don't see how anyone can try to apportion the blame on this very particular mess equally between the parties. When I see some rather right-leaning folks in here pointing the blame at the Repubs, I start to think that you must be pretty hard right leaning to think the Dems drove this bus at all.

Perhaps it isn't fair, and I certainly don't think you have to agree with me or be on the far-right.

Because the dems and Obama were willing to negotiate with Big Business and political cronies about Obamacare, but when the GOP rallied for the rest of the American people then suddenly there was no room to compromise or negotiate. THAT'S why there is blame to go around.

Anyone thinking that the Dems bear no responsibility here is nothing more than a pure partisan hack. On the partisan hack level of BST, Todd Andrews and wdcrob.

This line of thinking doesn't make much sense to me. Pretty sure Romney ran on a plan to repeal Obamacare and lost. Seems like the American people don't care.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Total win for Democrats -- especially Obama.

Maybe from a Democrats view. As an Independent I don't think the Democrats come off looking any better than the Republicans. And anyone who celebrates this as a win is an idiot.

I don't think you're as independent as you claim to be.

Why? Because I don't agree with your views? I've stated in the past every single person I've voted for for POTUS. Obama is on the list of people I've voted for. Curious at why you think I'm not Independent?

Yeah, I shouldn't have been so snarky. I just don't see how anyone can try to apportion the blame on this very particular mess equally between the parties. When I see some rather right-leaning folks in here pointing the blame at the Repubs, I start to think that you must be pretty hard right leaning to think the Dems drove this bus at all.

Perhaps it isn't fair, and I certainly don't think you have to agree with me or be on the far-right.

Because the dems and Obama were willing to negotiate with Big Business and political cronies about Obamacare, but when the GOP rallied for the rest of the American people then suddenly there was no room to compromise or negotiate. THAT'S why there is blame to go around.

Anyone thinking that the Dems bear no responsibility here is nothing more than a pure partisan hack. On the partisan hack level of BST, Todd Andrews and wdcrob.

This line of thinking doesn't make much sense to me. Pretty sure Romney ran on a plan to repeal Obamacare and lost. Seems like the American people don't care.

Oh, believe me, they're starting to care now that they're seeing the actual rates.

The point is that the Dems were willing to negotiate with ANYONE besides the GOP. They're just as responsible for the shutdown.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Sounds like Feb 7th could be earlier or later depending on revenue favorability.

Damn. What the hell is everyone going to argue about until then.

Let's pick a safe topic, like Religion.

 

[timschochet]

We won't know the ultimate political winners and losers until we see the results of the 2014 elections. However, I believe a few assumptions can be made:

1. I think the Tea Party lost. One of the most striking aspects of this story was the number of Republican "establishment" types who spoke out, for the first time, against what Cruz and the Tea Party was doing. The Chamber of Commerce is going to "primary" some Tea Party members in the next election, starting with Amash in Michigan. We'll see how that goes.

2. Obamacare is here to stay, until it's finally replaced with single payer.

3. Call me an optimist, but I don't think it matters how short a time the debt ceiling was raised this time around. I don't believe the Republicans will allow this threat to occur again.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Sounds like Feb 7th could be earlier or later depending on revenue favorability.

Damn. What the hell is everyone going to argue about until then.

Let's pick a safe topic, like Religion.

 

[Sammy3469]

Total win for Democrats -- especially Obama.

Maybe from a Democrats view. As an Independent I don't think the Democrats come off looking any better than the Republicans. And anyone who celebrates this as a win is an idiot.

I don't think you're as independent as you claim to be.

Why? Because I don't agree with your views? I've stated in the past every single person I've voted for for POTUS. Obama is on the list of people I've voted for. Curious at why you think I'm not Independent?

Yeah, I shouldn't have been so snarky. I just don't see how anyone can try to apportion the blame on this very particular mess equally between the parties. When I see some rather right-leaning folks in here pointing the blame at the Repubs, I start to think that you must be pretty hard right leaning to think the Dems drove this bus at all.

Perhaps it isn't fair, and I certainly don't think you have to agree with me or be on the far-right.

Because the dems and Obama were willing to negotiate with Big Business and political cronies about Obamacare, but when the GOP rallied for the rest of the American people then suddenly there was no room to compromise or negotiate. THAT'S why there is blame to go around.

Anyone thinking that the Dems bear no responsibility here is nothing more than a pure partisan hack. On the partisan hack level of BST, Todd Andrews and wdcrob.

This line of thinking doesn't make much sense to me. Pretty sure Romney ran on a plan to repeal Obamacare and lost. Seems like the American people don't care.

Oh, believe me, they're starting to care now that they're seeing the actual rates.

The point is that the Dems were willing to negotiate with ANYONE besides the GOP. They're just as responsible for the shutdown.

Sounds like a sore loser to me

 

[TheIronSheik]

We won't know the ultimate political winners and losers until we see the results of the 2014 elections. However, I believe a few assumptions can be made:

1. I think the Tea Party lost. One of the most striking aspects of this story was the number of Republican "establishment" types who spoke out, for the first time, against what Cruz and the Tea Party was doing. The Chamber of Commerce is going to "primary" some Tea Party members in the next election, starting with Amash in Michigan. We'll see how that goes.

2. Obamacare is here to stay, until it's finally replaced with single payer.

3. Call me an optimist, but I don't think it matters how short a time the debt ceiling was raised this time around. I don't believe the Republicans will allow this threat to occur again.

I disagree with all of this.