The Tea Party is back in business! (1 Viewer)

[badmojo1006]

So glad Jim11 is back.

I am too. He brings real perspective to any thread he joins. True top notch kind of guy... if he is a guy.

I think he is a wizard

 

[jon_mx]

Just simplify Obamacare to make it easier for businesses to comply. it is not that hard to come up with some tweaks to gain GOP support to stop this nonsense. but both sides are digging in instead..

If you were the Republicans, and I were Obama, we'd have a deal easy.

are we talking nightmare scenarios now?

Only if we can recruit Jim11 and FSM.

When you think it of as :

Tim... Obama

Jim11... Boehner

Jon_mx...Mitch McConnell

FSM... Harry Reid

it soes makes it a lot easier to understand why the government is shut down

And Fennis as the Beaver.

When you say it like that it sounds like Tuesday is my turn in the barrel

The difficult part would be luring you out of the barrel.

 

[pizzatyme]

http://www.examiner.com/article/obamacare-can-be-defunded-without-senate-approval#disqus_thread

Thoughts?

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

The whole "both sides are equally to blame thing" is crazy at this point. You don't need to look farther than Obamacare itself for evidence unless you just don't want to believe the truth. As much as Republicans have tried to jump though mental hoops to deny this, the principal mechanics of ACA started on the right, perpetuated on the right, and were enacted by the right before long before the ACA debate started.

In a rational world, Republicans might have declared victory the second the Public Option was dropped off the table for healthcare reform. But since that would have involved handing Obama a bi-partisan victory they dug into a trench that they have been digging deeper ever since.

Democrats suck too, of course, but what's happening now and what happened the during the last artificial debt ceiling crisis isn't an equal thing. Not even close.

Typical myopic view staring down at the ground focusing on the next step instead of raising our heads up and looking a little more forward. The problems are a LOT ####### bigger than this trivial government shutdown that will be over in a week or three.

I wanted to circle back around on this post from this morning when I had a little more time to address it. I agree that we have a massive issue facing the country in terms of the long term budget outlook. If this shutdown, or either the previous or impending debt ceiling debate had anything to do with addressing those long-term issues I'd be a little more sympathetic to this point of view.

The shutdown would still be primarily the Republicans' fault, of course. When they hold 1/3 of the Legislative and Executive branches and are shutting down the government because they are unhappy with standing laws that they can't otherwise change, there's no way they can avoid owning this. But at least if they were fighting to seriously address the long term issues they'd have some high ground to stand on. They aren't and what people need to realize is the present budget deficit, which has actually fallen to a relatively stable and sustainable (over the short-term) level, has next to nothing to do with the long-term issues.

We could balance the budget tomorrow, and we wouldn't be much closer to fixing the big underlying issues.

 

[badmojo1006]

http://www.examiner.com/article/obamacare-can-be-defunded-without-senate-approval#disqus_thread

Thoughts?

Bubba Atkinson of the Independent Journal Review wrote, “Chief Justice Roberts actually ruled the mandate, relative to the commerce clause, was unconstitutional.

 

[jon_mx]

Breaking news from National Review:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner

House Republicans tell me Speaker John Boehner wants to craft a “grand bargain” on fiscal issues as part of the debt-limit deliberations, and during a series of meetings on Wednesday, he urged colleagues to stick with him.

[SIZE=1em]The revelation came quietly. Boehner called groups of members to his Capitol office all day, taking their temperature on the shutdown and the debt limit. It became clear, members say, that Boehner’s chief goal is conference unity as the debt limit nears, and he’s looking at potentially blending a government-spending deal and debt-limit agreement into a larger budget package.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1em]“It’s the return of the grand bargain,” says one House Republican, who requested anonymity to speak freely. “There weren’t a lot of specifics discussed, and the meetings were mostly about just checking in. But he’s looking hard at the debt limit as a place where we can do something big.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1em]Beyond Boehner’s office, the leadership is sending out a similar message through its emissaries. The House GOP’s most influential fiscal strategists, Dave Camp and Paul Ryan, are privately reassuring nervous Republicans[/SIZE][SIZE=1em] that the federal shutdown may be painful in the short term, but a budget deal is in the works — and they should be enthused about what they’re cooking up.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1em]“Ryan is selling this to everybody; he’s getting back to his sweet spot,” says a second House Republican who’s close with Ryan. “He and Camp are going to be Boehner’s guys. That’s why Boehner put them on the CR conference committee; he knows these guys are going to be his point men.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1em]And d[/SIZE][SIZE=1em]uring Wednesday huddles, Ryan and Camp, along with the members who met with Boehner, talked openly about what kind of concessions they could potentially win from Democrats. Late Wednesday, “the CR-debt limit idea was what people were talking about on the floor,” says a GOP aide.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1em]Per sources, entitlement reforms, such as chained CPI, an elimination of the medical-device tax, and delays to parts of Obamacare are all on the table as trades for delaying aspects of sequestration and extending the debt limit. Camp, especially, is pushing to have a tax-reform framework included.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1em]What’s not being discussed: increased taxes or revenues. From what I hear, this combined deal is being softly and informally sold to members; Wednesday’s talks were about gradually getting them engaged. And it’s all about what the GOP could win – there’s little about what they’ll give in return. That doesn’t mean, however, that revenue as part of a tax-reform pact has been ruled out.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1em]Michael Steel, Boehner’s spokesman, wouldn’t comment on the closed-door meetings. [/SIZE][SIZE=1em]“The speaker has always said we’ll need substantial spending cuts and reforms in order to raise the debt limit, like in the debt-limit bill we’ve been discussing,” he says. “But let’s drop the phrase ‘grand bargain.’ Right now, there’s nothing grand, and there’s no one to bargain with.”[/SIZE]

This is promising if the GOP starts to push for something meaningful to come out of this.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

That grand bargain sounds more like a wish list of demands by the GOP to just do what they're supposed to do.

The purse strings and funding is a power of congress though, so it's not total anarchy.

 

[ffldrew]

Breaking news from National Review:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner

House Republicans tell me Speaker John Boehner wants to craft a “grand bargain” on fiscal issues as part of the debt-limit deliberations, and during a series of meetings on Wednesday, he urged colleagues to stick with him.

[SIZE=1em]The revelation came quietly. Boehner called groups of members to his Capitol office all day, taking their temperature on the shutdown and the debt limit. It became clear, members say, that Boehner’s chief goal is conference unity as the debt limit nears, and he’s looking at potentially blending a government-spending deal and debt-limit agreement into a larger budget package.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1em]“It’s the return of the grand bargain,” says one House Republican, who requested anonymity to speak freely. “There weren’t a lot of specifics discussed, and the meetings were mostly about just checking in. But he’s looking hard at the debt limit as a place where we can do something big.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1em]Beyond Boehner’s office, the leadership is sending out a similar message through its emissaries. The House GOP’s most influential fiscal strategists, Dave Camp and Paul Ryan, are privately reassuring nervous Republicans[/SIZE][SIZE=1em] that the federal shutdown may be painful in the short term, but a budget deal is in the works — and they should be enthused about what they’re cooking up.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1em]“Ryan is selling this to everybody; he’s getting back to his sweet spot,” says a second House Republican who’s close with Ryan. “He and Camp are going to be Boehner’s guys. That’s why Boehner put them on the CR conference committee; he knows these guys are going to be his point men.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1em]And d[/SIZE][SIZE=1em]uring Wednesday huddles, Ryan and Camp, along with the members who met with Boehner, talked openly about what kind of concessions they could potentially win from Democrats. Late Wednesday, “the CR-debt limit idea was what people were talking about on the floor,” says a GOP aide.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1em]Per sources, entitlement reforms, such as chained CPI, an elimination of the medical-device tax, and delays to parts of Obamacare are all on the table as trades for delaying aspects of sequestration and extending the debt limit. Camp, especially, is pushing to have a tax-reform framework included.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1em]What’s not being discussed: increased taxes or revenues. From what I hear, this combined deal is being softly and informally sold to members; Wednesday’s talks were about gradually getting them engaged. And it’s all about what the GOP could win – there’s little about what they’ll give in return. That doesn’t mean, however, that revenue as part of a tax-reform pact has been ruled out.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1em]Michael Steel, Boehner’s spokesman, wouldn’t comment on the closed-door meetings. [/SIZE][SIZE=1em]“The speaker has always said we’ll need substantial spending cuts and reforms in order to raise the debt limit, like in the debt-limit bill we’ve been discussing,” he says. “But let’s drop the phrase ‘grand bargain.’ Right now, there’s nothing grand, and there’s no one to bargain with.”[/SIZE]

This is promising if the GOP starts to push for something meaningful to come out of this.

Sounds great - lets double down on holding a gun to the American economy!

 

[timschochet]

http://www.examiner.com/article/obamacare-can-be-defunded-without-senate-approval#disqus_thread

Thoughts?

Bubba Atkinson of the Independent Journal Review wrote, “Chief Justice Roberts actually ruled the mandate, relative to the commerce clause, was unconstitutional.

When I need legal analysis, I always look for the guys named Bubba.

 

[pizzatyme]

http://www.examiner.com/article/obamacare-can-be-defunded-without-senate-approval#disqus_thread

Thoughts?

Bubba Atkinson of the Independent Journal Review wrote, “Chief Justice Roberts actually ruled the mandate, relative to the commerce clause, was unconstitutional.

When I need legal analysis, I always look for the guys named Bubba.

With quality analysis and posts like this, who needs Bubba?

 

[Mario Kart]

http://www.examiner.com/article/obamacare-can-be-defunded-without-senate-approval#disqus_thread

Thoughts?

Bubba Atkinson of the Independent Journal Review wrote, “Chief Justice Roberts actually ruled the mandate, relative to the commerce clause, was unconstitutional.

When I need legal analysis, I always look for the guys named Bubba.

With quality analysis and posts like this, who needs Bubba?

Forrest.

 

[3C's]

He said his constituents want him to fight against Obamacare "regardless of consequences."

This is the problem. This guy, and the people with him, are not going to surrender no matter what the polls say. The national polls don't affect them. For this situation to be resolved, John Boehner is going to need to surrender without these guys behind him- and if he wasn't going to do that before, what will cause him to do it now?

I'm really beginning to worry that raising the debt ceiling may be in actual jeopardy this time around...

If the U.S. defaults then all of these guys are out of their jobs in the next elections. If there's one thing that's true about politicians it's that they'll preserve their jobs at any cost.

Not likely. Not with the way the districts are drawn up.

 

[Teumessian Fox]

Nate Silver doesn't think gerrymandering is responsible for the current makeup of congress

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/25/majority-minority-districts-are-products-of-geography-not-voting-rights-act/

A variety of academic analyses of redistricting have found that this geographic self-sorting accounts for much probably most of the skew of Congressional districts against Democrats. Gerrymandering and other partisan efforts at redistricting do play a role, but it is mostly around the margin. A study by John Sides and Eric McGhee found that redistricting after the 2010 Census, which was controlled by Republicans in many key states, produced a net swing of only about seven House seats toward Republicans.

 

[Mark Davis]

Nate Silver doesn't think gerrymandering is responsible for the current makeup of congress

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/25/majority-minority-districts-are-products-of-geography-not-voting-rights-act/

A variety of academic analyses of redistricting have found that this geographic self-sorting accounts for much probably most of the skew of Congressional districts against Democrats. Gerrymandering and other partisan efforts at redistricting do play a role, but it is mostly around the margin. A study by John Sides and Eric McGhee found that redistricting after the 2010 Census, which was controlled by Republicans in many key states, produced a net swing of only about seven House seats toward Republicans.

It's not so much the makeup in raw numbers, it's that the districts are more partisan meaning that the only real political challenges are from the extremes in the primary.

 

[dparker713]

But i'm not holding my breath that either side will work together to prevent us from being in the same spot in November.

Even if government is funded with a stopgap measure and the debt limit is raised the two sides remain miles apart on a budget that would replace sequestration.

And Democrats are not going to give up anything on Social Security, Medicaire and Medicaid without additional taxes, while Republicans have refused those offers to date.

Thus, it's most likely continued sequestration for the forseeable future.

Serious question here. What are the democrats will to negotiate with? Just feels like Obama draws a line in the sand and refuses to negotiate on anything. I'm sure that's not true and one of you guys will know what they are willing to compromise.

The thing is that the relative merits of the ACA are completely irrelevant to what's happening now. There's established democratic processes to go through if you want to change existing legislation (or repeal it). What the House Republicans are doing now ain't that. It's subverting the whole system, which is why Obama cannot compromise on this.

You nimrods have an excuse for everything. I thought Obama said that he wasn't going to play partisan politics when he got into office. The more feces he shovels down your throat, the wider you guys open your mouths and say, "More, please." Is he ever responsible for anything?

It's one thing to disagree, but you idiots live in this fog where nothing the Democrats do is ever wrong and the other side is always 100% wrong. People can't take your gullible, closed-minded opinions seriously. All you guys do is complain how Republicans need to compromise yet you never say that about the other side. I shouldn't have ventured into this tiresome thread. If I wanted this mindless garbage I'd turn on MSNBC.

I'm curious, if one side is actually wrong all the time, do you believe the opposition should sometimes take their side to be fair?

 

[dparker713]

http://www.examiner.com/article/obamacare-can-be-defunded-without-senate-approval#disqus_thread

Thoughts?

Whole lotta stupid in that article.

 

[[icon]]

He said his constituents want him to fight against Obamacare "regardless of consequences."

This is the problem. This guy, and the people with him, are not going to surrender no matter what the polls say. The national polls don't affect them. For this situation to be resolved, John Boehner is going to need to surrender without these guys behind him- and if he wasn't going to do that before, what will cause him to do it now?

I'm really beginning to worry that raising the debt ceiling may be in actual jeopardy this time around...

#### the polls.You hippies wanna play by the rules? Cool. Let's play exactly by the rules.

Please... Shut the whole thing down. For a month... Or two. I want to see the sweat bead on the brow.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

He said his constituents want him to fight against Obamacare "regardless of consequences."

This is the problem. This guy, and the people with him, are not going to surrender no matter what the polls say. The national polls don't affect them. For this situation to be resolved, John Boehner is going to need to surrender without these guys behind him- and if he wasn't going to do that before, what will cause him to do it now?

I'm really beginning to worry that raising the debt ceiling may be in actual jeopardy this time around...

#### the polls.You hippies wanna play by the rules? Cool. Let's play exactly by the rules.

Please... Shut the whole thing down. For a month... Or two. I want to see the sweat bead on the brow.

When did you become brain damaged?

 

[jamny]

Is it time for another Super Committee? That went so well the last time.

 

[jon_mx]

Breaking news from National Review:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner

House Republicans tell me Speaker John Boehner wants to craft a “grand bargain” on fiscal issues as part of the debt-limit deliberations, and during a series of meetings on Wednesday, he urged colleagues to stick with him.

[SIZE=1em]The revelation came quietly. Boehner called groups of members to his Capitol office all day, taking their temperature on the shutdown and the debt limit. It became clear, members say, that Boehner’s chief goal is conference unity as the debt limit nears, and he’s looking at potentially blending a government-spending deal and debt-limit agreement into a larger budget package.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1em]“It’s the return of the grand bargain,” says one House Republican, who requested anonymity to speak freely. “There weren’t a lot of specifics discussed, and the meetings were mostly about just checking in. But he’s looking hard at the debt limit as a place where we can do something big.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1em]Beyond Boehner’s office, the leadership is sending out a similar message through its emissaries. The House GOP’s most influential fiscal strategists, Dave Camp and Paul Ryan, are privately reassuring nervous Republicans[/SIZE][SIZE=1em] that the federal shutdown may be painful in the short term, but a budget deal is in the works — and they should be enthused about what they’re cooking up.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1em]“Ryan is selling this to everybody; he’s getting back to his sweet spot,” says a second House Republican who’s close with Ryan. “He and Camp are going to be Boehner’s guys. That’s why Boehner put them on the CR conference committee; he knows these guys are going to be his point men.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1em]And d[/SIZE][SIZE=1em]uring Wednesday huddles, Ryan and Camp, along with the members who met with Boehner, talked openly about what kind of concessions they could potentially win from Democrats. Late Wednesday, “the CR-debt limit idea was what people were talking about on the floor,” says a GOP aide.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1em]Per sources, entitlement reforms, such as chained CPI, an elimination of the medical-device tax, and delays to parts of Obamacare are all on the table as trades for delaying aspects of sequestration and extending the debt limit. Camp, especially, is pushing to have a tax-reform framework included.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1em]What’s not being discussed: increased taxes or revenues. From what I hear, this combined deal is being softly and informally sold to members; Wednesday’s talks were about gradually getting them engaged. And it’s all about what the GOP could win – there’s little about what they’ll give in return. That doesn’t mean, however, that revenue as part of a tax-reform pact has been ruled out.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1em]Michael Steel, Boehner’s spokesman, wouldn’t comment on the closed-door meetings. [/SIZE][SIZE=1em]“The speaker has always said we’ll need substantial spending cuts and reforms in order to raise the debt limit, like in the debt-limit bill we’ve been discussing,” he says. “But let’s drop the phrase ‘grand bargain.’ Right now, there’s nothing grand, and there’s no one to bargain with.”[/SIZE]

This is promising if the GOP starts to push for something meaningful to come out of this.

Sounds great - lets double down on holding a gun to the American economy!

If they are going to put a gun to their heads, let's put in to their heads for a legitimate reason, and getting our outrageous deficit under control is a legitimate reason to do this.

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

He said his constituents want him to fight against Obamacare "regardless of consequences."

This is the problem. This guy, and the people with him, are not going to surrender no matter what the polls say. The national polls don't affect them. For this situation to be resolved, John Boehner is going to need to surrender without these guys behind him- and if he wasn't going to do that before, what will cause him to do it now?

I'm really beginning to worry that raising the debt ceiling may be in actual jeopardy this time around...

#### the polls.You hippies wanna play by the rules? Cool. Let's play exactly by the rules.

Please... Shut the whole thing down. For a month... Or two. I want to see the sweat bead on the brow.

 

[quickhands]

Obama could end this anytime he wishes and get 99 percent of what he wants.

I'd like you to tell me how he's gonna get 99% of what he wants. This should be good.

bump. jon, I asked you the exact same question last night and you failed to provide a specific answer. Can you do so now? What exactly could Obama do that would satisfy the House and still get him 99% of what he wants?

Moderate GOPers are looking for any excuse to peel. Make a few tweaks to Obamacare and bam, this is over. Make it easier on businesses or something. There are dozens of tweaks he could offer up and still keep Obamacare in tack.

OK, so you really don't have anything specific to offer. Let's look at what the House HAS asked for:1. Defunding of Obamacare.

2. 1 year delay of Obamacare.

3. 1 year delay of the individual mandate.

It is extremely hard for me to believe that the Republicans would move from this stance to accepting a "few tweaks." If that's the case, why are we even having this fight?

give up the special deal for govt. delay 1 year ind. mandate. obama gets other 99.5

 

[quickhands]

Obama could end this anytime he wishes and get 99 percent of what he wants.

I'd like you to tell me how he's gonna get 99% of what he wants. This should be good.

bump. jon, I asked you the exact same question last night and you failed to provide a specific answer. Can you do so now? What exactly could Obama do that would satisfy the House and still get him 99% of what he wants?

Moderate GOPers are looking for any excuse to peel. Make a few tweaks to Obamacare and bam, this is over. Make it easier on businesses or something. There are dozens of tweaks he could offer up and still keep Obamacare in tack.

OK, so you really don't have anything specific to offer. Let's look at what the House HAS asked for:1. Defunding of Obamacare.

2. 1 year delay of Obamacare.

3. 1 year delay of the individual mandate.

It is extremely hard for me to believe that the Republicans would move from this stance to accepting a "few tweaks." If that's the case, why are we even having this fight?

Those are demands, but this is a negotiation. Offer something less and you give cover to the GOP. It is negotiating 101.

Once again, I really don't think you're getting what the Tea Party is all about. You remind me of the people who are always telling the Israelis that they have to negotiate with the Palestinians. But the Palestinians refuse to agree to anything unless they can have the Right of Return, which would destroy the State of Israel. How can you negotiate with that?The Tea Party is exactly the same way. They didn't start out with these demands in order to negotiate them down. Did you read the article I posted about Mark Meadows? The Tea Party is out to destroy Obamacare. There is no way for Obama to negotiate with them, because they don't want to deal with Obama, they want to defeat Obama.

christ, now the tea party are the palastinians?

 

[Rohn Jambo]

Looks like it's just a blame game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIbkoop4AYE... Congress using the debt ceiling to force the POTUS to do something he does not want to do in order to not get blamed for the gov't shutdown.

 

[3C's]

http://www.examiner.com/article/obamacare-can-be-defunded-without-senate-approval#disqus_thread

Thoughts?

Whole lotta stupid in that article.

If you think that is bad you should read the comments. So sad...

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

http://www.examiner.com/article/obamacare-can-be-defunded-without-senate-approval#disqus_thread

Thoughts?

Makes sense to me

Bubba Atkinson of the Independent Journal Review wrote, “Chief Justice Roberts actually ruled the mandate, relative to the commerce clause, was unconstitutional. That is how the Democrats got Obama-care going in the first place. This is critical. His ruling means Congress can’t compel American citizens to purchase anything, ever. The notion is now officially and forever, unconstitutional. As it should be.”

It really boils down to:

Government: "Buy this insurance."

Taxpayer: "No."

Government: "We're going to fine you."

What I find really bizarre about all of this. If this is a "law" and taxpayers don't obey the law shouldn't they be arrested? It seems like people are trying to say it's a law, you can follow it if you want to, but if you don't we're going to give you a fine similar to a speeding ticket. You can break the law as often as you want, and we'll just keep giving you these speeding tickets. However if you don't pay these speeding tickets, then you really broke the law and we'll have to arrest you.

I assume the way these fines will be enforced is through taxes. Don't want to pay for the insurance we say you need? Fine, we'll make you pay more taxes next year when you fail to pay the penalty.

 

[The Commish]

Obama could end this anytime he wishes and get 99 percent of what he wants.

I'd like you to tell me how he's gonna get 99% of what he wants.

This should be good.

bump. jon, I asked you the exact same question last night and you failed to provide a specific answer. Can you do so now? What exactly could Obama do that would satisfy the House and still get him 99% of what he wants?

Moderate GOPers are looking for any excuse to peel. Make a few tweaks to Obamacare and bam, this is over. Make it easier on businesses or something. There are dozens of tweaks he could offer up and still keep Obamacare in tack.

I LOVE how "a few tweeks" is specific or exact.

 

[Rush Limbaugh Fan]

http://www.examiner.com/article/obamacare-can-be-defunded-without-senate-approval#disqus_thread

Thoughts?

Whole lotta stupid in that article.

If you think that is bad you should read the comments. So sad...

Oh god..The stupid in those comments. What the hell is wrong with tea party people? They are complete morons.

 

[The Commish]

Obama could end this anytime he wishes and get 99 percent of what he wants.

I'd like you to tell me how he's gonna get 99% of what he wants.

This should be good.

bump. jon, I asked you the exact same question last night and you failed to provide a specific answer. Can you do so now? What exactly could Obama do that would satisfy the House and still get him 99% of what he wants?

Moderate GOPers are looking for any excuse to peel. Make a few tweaks to Obamacare and bam, this is over. Make it easier on businesses or something. There are dozens of tweaks he could offer up and still keep Obamacare in tack.

OK, so you really don't have anything specific to offer. Let's look at what the House HAS asked for:

1. Defunding of Obamacare.

2. 1 year delay of Obamacare.

3. 1 year delay of the individual mandate.

It is extremely hard for me to believe that the Republicans would move from this stance to accepting a "few tweaks." If that's the case, why are we even having this fight?

Those are demands, but this is a negotiation. Offer something less and you give cover to the GOP. It is negotiating 101.

You mean like giving them the exact budget number they want??

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Byron York of the Washington Examiner (very conservative reporter, conservative tabloid):

"I've been trying to figure this out," says one House Republican of the current standoff over funding the government. "It seems to me that Boehner could do whatever he wants with Democrats on the floor and still get about 180 or 190 of us. So why doesn't he do that?"The lawmaker was referring to the fact that a large majority of the House's 232 Republicans, plus a large majority of its 200 Democrats, would likely support a "clean" continuing resolution to fund the government but not defund, delay, or limit Obamacare. If House Speaker John Boehner were to bring such a bill to the floor, it would probably pass with a majority of Republican as well as Democratic votes. But Boehner doesn't do it.

In other words, something like 380-390 of the 435 House members would vote for a clean resolution.

 

[snogger]

Interesting that the grand bargain is being brought back up.

As mentioned earlier it suggests that Boehner sees this crisis as one that helps him regain leverage over his own caucus.

But I'll be gobsmacked if there's any scenario where Boehner will be authorized to negotiate a deal that includes additional revenues for changes to the safety net programs.

So tired of "Obama won't negotiate with us" when they refuse to put additional revenue on the board..

Although, reading more on that "Grand Bargain" there was one part that adds revenue, without "raising taxes" per say...

[SIZE=1em]Per sources, entitlement reforms, such as chained CPI, an elimination of the medical-device tax, and delays to parts of Obamacare are all on the table as trades for delaying aspects of sequestration and extending the debt limit. Camp, especially, is pushing to have a tax-reform framework included.[/SIZE]

I've posted many times before in other threads that the Tax reform presented by the CBO a few years ago raises revenue without the dreaded "We raised your taxes" stamp that the Right is so afraid of..

By removing 99% of the deductions, and lowering the Tax rates for all, the right can sell it as a "Tax Cut" and the left can sell it as raising revenue..

Win/Win!

 

[Rohn Jambo]

How much crystal meth has to be cooked to pay off the government debt? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFP-2_iDYMU

 

[igbomb]

He said his constituents want him to fight against Obamacare "regardless of consequences."

This is the problem. This guy, and the people with him, are not going to surrender no matter what the polls say. The national polls don't affect them. For this situation to be resolved, John Boehner is going to need to surrender without these guys behind him- and if he wasn't going to do that before, what will cause him to do it now?

I'm really beginning to worry that raising the debt ceiling may be in actual jeopardy this time around...

#### the polls.You hippies wanna play by the rules? Cool. Let's play exactly by the rules.

Please... Shut the whole thing down. For a month... Or two. I want to see the sweat bead on the brow.

Icon, I have no idea how much of your "shut it all down" mantra is shtick and how much you really mean.

You seem to think that people aren't truly hurt by this and that it is just an inconvenience if anything.

Well, the NIH, which is the single biggest source of medical research, has been forced to furlough 75% of their workforce. One of the consequences of that particular furlough is that new experimental trials are on hold until this is resolved. So many families are not being enrolled into potential life saving programs because a handful of jerks can't be seen to look weak. And when the trials are delayed, approval is delayed, etc.

So while I'm glad to hear that you aren't personally impacted, you come across as a selfish d-bag when you champion this shutdown as a good thing.

 

[apalmer]

Obama could end this anytime he wishes and get 99 percent of what he wants.

I'd like you to tell me how he's gonna get 99% of what he wants. This should be good.

bump. jon, I asked you the exact same question last night and you failed to provide a specific answer. Can you do so now? What exactly could Obama do that would satisfy the House and still get him 99% of what he wants?

Moderate GOPers are looking for any excuse to peel. Make a few tweaks to Obamacare and bam, this is over. Make it easier on businesses or something. There are dozens of tweaks he could offer up and still keep Obamacare in tack.

OK, so you really don't have anything specific to offer. Let's look at what the House HAS asked for:1. Defunding of Obamacare.

2. 1 year delay of Obamacare.

3. 1 year delay of the individual mandate.

It is extremely hard for me to believe that the Republicans would move from this stance to accepting a "few tweaks." If that's the case, why are we even having this fight?

Those are demands, but this is a negotiation. Offer something less and you give cover to the GOP. It is negotiating 101.

Once again, I really don't think you're getting what the Tea Party is all about. You remind me of the people who are always telling the Israelis that they have to negotiate with the Palestinians. But the Palestinians refuse to agree to anything unless they can have the Right of Return, which would destroy the State of Israel. How can you negotiate with that?The Tea Party is exactly the same way. They didn't start out with these demands in order to negotiate them down. Did you read the article I posted about Mark Meadows? The Tea Party is out to destroy Obamacare. There is no way for Obama to negotiate with them, because they don't want to deal with Obama, they want to defeat Obama.

christ, now the tea party are the palastinians?

Just Tim being Tim, insulting the Palestinians.

 

[parasaurolophus]

He said his constituents want him to fight against Obamacare "regardless of consequences."

This is the problem. This guy, and the people with him, are not going to surrender no matter what the polls say. The national polls don't affect them. For this situation to be resolved, John Boehner is going to need to surrender without these guys behind him- and if he wasn't going to do that before, what will cause him to do it now?

I'm really beginning to worry that raising the debt ceiling may be in actual jeopardy this time around...

#### the polls.You hippies wanna play by the rules? Cool. Let's play exactly by the rules.

Please... Shut the whole thing down. For a month... Or two. I want to see the sweat bead on the brow.

Icon, I have no idea how much of your "shut it all down" mantra is shtick and how much you really mean.

You seem to think that people aren't truly hurt by this and that it is just an inconvenience if anything.

Well, the NIH, which is the single biggest source of medical research, has been forced to furlough 75% of their workforce. One of the consequences of that particular furlough is that new experimental trials are on hold until this is resolved. So many families are not being enrolled into potential life saving programs because a handful of jerks can't be seen to look weak. And when the trials are delayed, approval is delayed, etc.

So while I'm glad to hear that you aren't personally impacted, you come across as a selfish d-bag when you champion this shutdown as a good thing.

Perhaps he understands that having two years of problems in exchange for a better future is better than 100 years of just getting by and always trying to avoid short term issues.

We have unfortunately put ourselves in a situation where we have no other choice. We spent during prosperity and we spent during recession. Spend, spend, spend. We never want to deliver the bad news and tell people no. By acting this way we hamper ourselves every single year until one day we will be royally screwed and it will take decades to recover from.

 

[Slapdash]

He said his constituents want him to fight against Obamacare "regardless of consequences."

This is the problem. This guy, and the people with him, are not going to surrender no matter what the polls say. The national polls don't affect them. For this situation to be resolved, John Boehner is going to need to surrender without these guys behind him- and if he wasn't going to do that before, what will cause him to do it now?

I'm really beginning to worry that raising the debt ceiling may be in actual jeopardy this time around...

#### the polls.You hippies wanna play by the rules? Cool. Let's play exactly by the rules.

Please... Shut the whole thing down. For a month... Or two. I want to see the sweat bead on the brow.

Icon, I have no idea how much of your "shut it all down" mantra is shtick and how much you really mean.

You seem to think that people aren't truly hurt by this and that it is just an inconvenience if anything.

Well, the NIH, which is the single biggest source of medical research, has been forced to furlough 75% of their workforce. One of the consequences of that particular furlough is that new experimental trials are on hold until this is resolved. So many families are not being enrolled into potential life saving programs because a handful of jerks can't be seen to look weak. And when the trials are delayed, approval is delayed, etc.

So while I'm glad to hear that you aren't personally impacted, you come across as a selfish d-bag when you champion this shutdown as a good thing.

Perhaps he understands that having two years of problems in exchange for a better future is better than 100 years of just getting by and always trying to avoid short term issues.

We have unfortunately put ourselves in a situation where we have no other choice. We spent during prosperity and we spent during recession. Spend, spend, spend. We never want to deliver the bad news and tell people no. By acting this way we hamper ourselves every single year until one day we will be royally screwed and it will take decades to recover from.

Oh bull####.

 

[igbomb]

He said his constituents want him to fight against Obamacare "regardless of consequences."

This is the problem. This guy, and the people with him, are not going to surrender no matter what the polls say. The national polls don't affect them. For this situation to be resolved, John Boehner is going to need to surrender without these guys behind him- and if he wasn't going to do that before, what will cause him to do it now?

I'm really beginning to worry that raising the debt ceiling may be in actual jeopardy this time around...

#### the polls.You hippies wanna play by the rules? Cool. Let's play exactly by the rules.

Please... Shut the whole thing down. For a month... Or two. I want to see the sweat bead on the brow.

Icon, I have no idea how much of your "shut it all down" mantra is shtick and how much you really mean.

You seem to think that people aren't truly hurt by this and that it is just an inconvenience if anything.

Well, the NIH, which is the single biggest source of medical research, has been forced to furlough 75% of their workforce. One of the consequences of that particular furlough is that new experimental trials are on hold until this is resolved. So many families are not being enrolled into potential life saving programs because a handful of jerks can't be seen to look weak. And when the trials are delayed, approval is delayed, etc.

So while I'm glad to hear that you aren't personally impacted, you come across as a selfish d-bag when you champion this shutdown as a good thing.

Perhaps he understands that having two years of problems in exchange for a better future is better than 100 years of just getting by and always trying to avoid short term issues.

We have unfortunately put ourselves in a situation where we have no other choice. We spent during prosperity and we spent during recession. Spend, spend, spend. We never want to deliver the bad news and tell people no. By acting this way we hamper ourselves every single year until one day we will be royally screwed and it will take decades to recover from.

Except the clean CR that would pass in a heartbeat if Boehner brought it to the floor is what the Republicans requested. (Hint: The fight isn't over spending).

 

[pantagrapher]

I find the whole WWII Memorial hullabaloo unseemly. Fine. Move the barricades and let the veterans in. But now you have GOP and Dem congressmen pretty much camped out making sure everyone in teevee land knows they are friends to veterans. And of course you also have outside agitators parading around the memorial with political signs. Tasteless.

 

[Boston]

Here's a bi-partisan compromise...we put Obamacare on hold for a year with the exception of members of Congress and their immediate family...they take the program out for a trial run for a full year and if it works well for them than we can all feel comfortable that the program is a winner...if not they will know firsthand what needs to be fixed...I think that would be a great example of leadership and cooperation by both parties...

 

[pantagrapher]

Here's a bi-partisan compromise...we put Obamacare on hold for a year with the exception of members of Congress and their immediate family...they take the program out for a trial run for a full year and if it works well for them than we can all feel comfortable that the program is a winner...if not they will know firsthand what needs to be fixed...I think that would be a great example of leadership and cooperation by both parties...

lol no

 

[badmojo1006]

"We're not going to be disrespected," Rep. Marlin Stutzman (R-Ind.) told The Washington Examiner. "We have to get something out of this. And I don't know what that even is."

This is it. They are a 4 year old, holding his breath until he is blue because Mom told him he couldn't have a cookie

 

[pantagrapher]

"We're not going to be disrespected," Rep. Marlin Stutzman (R-Ind.) told The Washington Examiner. "We have to get something out of this. And I don't know what that even is."

This is it. They are a 4 year old, holding his breath until he is blue because Mom told him he couldn't have a cookie

More like a 4 year old strangling his family.

 

[Fennis]

"We're not going to be disrespected," Rep. Marlin Stutzman (R-Ind.) told The Washington Examiner. "We have to get something out of this. And I don't know what that even is."

This is it. They are a 4 year old, holding his breath until he is blue because Mom told him he couldn't have a cookie

More like a 4 year old strangling his family.

More like a 40 year old strangling his family.

 

[timschochet]

He said his constituents want him to fight against Obamacare "regardless of consequences."

This is the problem. This guy, and the people with him, are not going to surrender no matter what the polls say. The national polls don't affect them. For this situation to be resolved, John Boehner is going to need to surrender without these guys behind him- and if he wasn't going to do that before, what will cause him to do it now?

I'm really beginning to worry that raising the debt ceiling may be in actual jeopardy this time around...

#### the polls.You hippies wanna play by the rules? Cool. Let's play exactly by the rules.

Please... Shut the whole thing down. For a month... Or two. I want to see the sweat bead on the brow.

Icon, I have no idea how much of your "shut it all down" mantra is shtick and how much you really mean.

You seem to think that people aren't truly hurt by this and that it is just an inconvenience if anything.

Well, the NIH, which is the single biggest source of medical research, has been forced to furlough 75% of their workforce. One of the consequences of that particular furlough is that new experimental trials are on hold until this is resolved. So many families are not being enrolled into potential life saving programs because a handful of jerks can't be seen to look weak. And when the trials are delayed, approval is delayed, etc.

So while I'm glad to hear that you aren't personally impacted, you come across as a selfish d-bag when you champion this shutdown as a good thing.

The sequester also included major cuts to the NIH, which I noted at the time as both hurtful and stupid. The response I got from many conservatives on this board was "too ####### bad!"

 

[Don Quixote]

I personally know about a dozen people on furlough from FEMA. Good thing there are no hurricane watches out there... oh, wait!

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Want to know why the shutdown -- and the coming debt-ceiling fight -- will be so difficult to resolve? Just ask Marlin Stutzman, a conservative congressman from Indiana.“We’re not going to be disrespected,” he told the Washington Examiner's David Drucker. “We have to get something out of this. And I don’t know what that even is.”

Stutzman is right. The fight over the shutdown has become unmoored from any particular policy demands the GOP believes it can secure. It's become an issue of pride and politics. At this point, Republicans simply need something so they can tell themselves, and their base, that they didn't lose. They don't know what that something is, exactly. But it needs to be something.

By the same token, the Democrats literally can't give them anything without losing. Not until the shutdown ends, anyway. And, on CNBC on Wednesday, President Obama added that the Democrats can't give them anything until the debt ceiling is raised. "Until we get t[the shutdown] done, until we make sure that Congress allows treasury to pay for things that Congress itself already authorized, we are not going to engage in a series of negotiations," Obama said.

It's this dynamic that makes 2013 so much more dangerous than 2011. The negotiations in 2011 weren't zero sum. For one side to win, the other didn't have to lose. That's because the negotiations in 2011 were over policy -- in particular, over a broad deficit-reduction package. Since both sides wanted to reduce the deficit, it was conceivable that both sides could walk away feeling like they'd won some and lost some.

That's not true in 2013. The battle this year really is zero-sum. For one side to win, the other has to lose. And that's because this fight isn't over policy. It's over principle. In particular, it's over whether to legitimate for the GOP to demand concessions in return for keeping the government open and paying the country's bills.

 

[Premier]

He said his constituents want him to fight against Obamacare "regardless of consequences."

This is the problem. This guy, and the people with him, are not going to surrender no matter what the polls say. The national polls don't affect them. For this situation to be resolved, John Boehner is going to need to surrender without these guys behind him- and if he wasn't going to do that before, what will cause him to do it now?

I'm really beginning to worry that raising the debt ceiling may be in actual jeopardy this time around...

#### the polls.You hippies wanna play by the rules? Cool. Let's play exactly by the rules.

Please... Shut the whole thing down. For a month... Or two. I want to see the sweat bead on the brow.

Icon, I have no idea how much of your "shut it all down" mantra is shtick and how much you really mean.

You seem to think that people aren't truly hurt by this and that it is just an inconvenience if anything.

Well, the NIH, which is the single biggest source of medical research, has been forced to furlough 75% of their workforce. One of the consequences of that particular furlough is that new experimental trials are on hold until this is resolved. So many families are not being enrolled into potential life saving programs because a handful of jerks can't be seen to look weak. And when the trials are delayed, approval is delayed, etc.

So while I'm glad to hear that you aren't personally impacted, you come across as a selfish d-bag when you champion this shutdown as a good thing.

Seriously. And this doosh was in here crying about losing his job a few months ago.

People are raging ###holes.

 

[timschochet]

This gives me a little hope:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/03/politics/government-shutdown/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

A small but growing group of House Republicans is increasingly worried about the fallout from the government shutdown and say it's time for Speaker John Boehner to allow a simple vote on a spending bill.

Defunding Obamacare can wait for now, they say.

"I'm trying to be optimistic but at the same time I have a really, really tough time when people are out of work and they can't pay their bills," Rep. Michael Grimm of New York told reporters Wednesday. "Though it might be a political loss for us ... this is an untenable situation."

Rep. Scott Rigell, whose Virginia district is home to a significant number of military members and civilian contractors, was one of the first to publicly break away.

We fought the good fight," he said in a tweet on Tuesday, but acknowledged it was time to move on.

Boehner hosted small groups of concerned members on Wednesday. A spokesman for Boehner declined to talk about the sessions.

A Republican source familiar with one of Wednesday's meetings said Boehner listened, but didn't signal he was willing to allow a vote on a clean bill.

"They weren't strong-armed, and they weren't asked to step back," the source said of the moderates in the meeting. It was taken as a positive sign that Boehner wasn't trying to muzzle the effort.

Another House Republican source acknowledged that the group doesn't yet have the numbers, muscle or will to force Boehner's hand. To do so, they would need to stick together and vote with Democrats to block any piecemeal spending bills from coming up.

The only Republican to do that so far is Rep. Peter King of New York.

One of the Republicans who met with Boehner Wednesday told CNN they are giving him a bit more time to let things play out, but could decide to rebel by the end of the week.

 

[Doug B]

Question: I guess I was sleeping in Civics class that day, but ...

Only John Boehner can introduce bills to the Houe for a vote? I honestly thought any Congressman could introduce a new bill

I know the Senate is a different arena, but there are frequent news articles in the local paper about Senators Mary Landrieu and David Vitter filing bills. Congressmen can't do the same? Or is it that they can, but Boehner can somehow block it?

 

[timschochet]

Question: I guess I was sleeping in Civics class that day, but ...

Only John Boehner can introduce bills to the Houe for a vote? I honestly thought any Congressman could introduce a new bill

I know the Senate is a different arena, but there are frequent news articles in the local paper about Senators Mary Landrieu and David Vitter filing bills. Congressmen can't do the same? Or is it that they can, but Boehner can somehow block it?

Bills are introduced all the time, but the Speaker is the only one who can call the vote.