The Tea Party is back in business! (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

My message to the world is the United States has always paid its bills and it will do so again.

China begs to differ.

How so? (serious question)

I was making a joke. We are trillions of dollars in debt. I'm guessing we're not paying all of our bills.

You're guessing wrong. We have never been short on a debt payment to China, or to anyone.

 

[timschochet]

So where are the truckers? Wasn't that today?

 

[TheIronSheik]

My message to the world is the United States has always paid its bills and it will do so again.

China begs to differ.

How so? (serious question)

I was making a joke. We are trillions of dollars in debt. I'm guessing we're not paying all of our bills.

You're guessing wrong. We have never been short on a debt payment to China, or to anyone.

OK. I think you're taking it too serious.

 

[Slapdash]

Listening to President Obama on the radio just now. He says he will NOT invoke the 14th Amendment. He does not believe he has the legal right to do so. He also points out that by the time it came to that anyhow, he fears the market will have collapsed.

What an idiot.

Who, me? Or Barack?

Not you.....this time

well then- please explain. I know Lawrence Tribe (Obama's professor in college) also believes that Obama cannot use the 14th Amendment in such a way, though I haven't read his specific argument. I also happen to agree with Obama that any failure by Congress to raise the debt ceiling would lead to an economic crisis whatever he decides to do. So how is he an idiot then?

He is an idiot because he is taking one of the less bad options off the table which makes the more dire outcomes more likely. One of the few items that could prevent a market collapse. Him thinking that would happen anyways is just another example of how little he (or any politician) understands the bond markets.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Listening to President Obama on the radio just now. He says he will NOT invoke the 14th Amendment. He does not believe he has the legal right to do so. He also points out that by the time it came to that anyhow, he fears the market will have collapsed.

What an idiot.

I completely disagree with Obama on this. He's taking out an idiotic position here.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Listening to President Obama on the radio just now. He says he will NOT invoke the 14th Amendment. He does not believe he has the legal right to do so. He also points out that by the time it came to that anyhow, he fears the market will have collapsed.

What an idiot.

Who, me? Or Barack?

Yes.

 

[RCon]

Listening to President Obama on the radio just now. He says he will NOT invoke the 14th Amendment. He does not believe he has the legal right to do so. He also points out that by the time it came to that anyhow, he fears the market will have collapsed.

What an idiot.

Who, me? Or Barack?

Colossally stupid thing for Obama to say. He's supposed to be engendering confidence in the markets and the system, not stoking fears.

 

[Lutherman2112]

My message to the world is the United States has always paid its bills and it will do so again.

China begs to differ.

How so? (serious question)

I was making a joke. We are trillions of dollars in debt. I'm guessing we're not paying all of our bills.

I will adjust my sarcasm meter according.

 

[ffldrew]

Listening to President Obama on the radio just now. He says he will NOT invoke the 14th Amendment. He does not believe he has the legal right to do so. He also points out that by the time it came to that anyhow, he fears the market will have collapsed.

What an idiot.

Who, me? Or Barack?

Yes.

 

[TPW]

Listening to President Obama on the radio just now. He says he will NOT invoke the 14th Amendment. He does not believe he has the legal right to do so. He also points out that by the time it came to that anyhow, he fears the market will have collapsed.

What an idiot.

Who, me? Or Barack?

Colossally stupid thing for Obama to say. He's supposed to be engendering confidence in the markets and the system, not stoking fears.

What if in fact he's much more interested in doing something else?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2%80%93Piven_strategy

 

[shader]

So basically Obama is saying that if the Republicans don't raise the debt ceiling, that the gov't is not going to pay the interest and principal of treasury notes, bills and bonds...correct?

If that is the case, it really would be a horrific economic event if that happened.

I don't take sides in this, as they are all idiots. But Obama is like the head coach of a football team. If the defense stinks and the offense is awesome, but the team fails to win because one side is letting them down, the coach gets canned.

He's the leader of the ship. If it goes down, he has to take blame.

 

[Slapdash]

Listening to President Obama on the radio just now. He says he will NOT invoke the 14th Amendment. He does not believe he has the legal right to do so. He also points out that by the time it came to that anyhow, he fears the market will have collapsed.

What an idiot.

Who, me? Or Barack?

Colossally stupid thing for Obama to say. He's supposed to be engendering confidence in the markets and the system, not stoking fears.

What if in fact he's much more interested in doing something else?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2%80%93Piven_strategy

Not sure how causing a panic in the debt markets is going to bring about a BIG.

 

[TheIronSheik]

So basically Obama is saying that if the Republicans don't raise the debt ceiling, that the gov't is not going to pay the interest and principal of treasury notes, bills and bonds...correct?

If that is the case, it really would be a horrific economic event if that happened.

I don't take sides in this, as they are all idiots. But Obama is like the head coach of a football team. If the defense stinks and the offense is awesome, but the team fails to win because one side is letting them down, the coach gets canned.

He's the leader of the ship. If it goes down, he has to take blame.

That's actually one of the best analogies I've read on the subject.

 

[badmojo1006]

So basically Obama is saying that if the Republicans don't raise the debt ceiling, that the gov't is not going to pay the interest and principal of treasury notes, bills and bonds...correct?

If that is the case, it really would be a horrific economic event if that happened.

I don't take sides in this, as they are all idiots. But Obama is like the head coach of a football team. If the defense stinks and the offense is awesome, but the team fails to win because one side is letting them down, the coach gets canned.

He's the leader of the ship. If it goes down, he has to take blame.

If he is the head coach, then the defensive coordinators (Boehner & McConnell) would have been fired a long time ago

 

[TPW]

Listening to President Obama on the radio just now. He says he will NOT invoke the 14th Amendment. He does not believe he has the legal right to do so. He also points out that by the time it came to that anyhow, he fears the market will have collapsed.

What an idiot.

Who, me? Or Barack?

Colossally stupid thing for Obama to say. He's supposed to be engendering confidence in the markets and the system, not stoking fears.

What if in fact he's much more interested in doing something else?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2%80%93Piven_strategy

Not sure how causing a panic in the debt markets is going to bring about a BIG.

I didn't say such a tactic would be particularly effective. One could argue though that this is just another step toward generating the major transitional crisis to which the article made mention. I guess we'll find out.

 

[Henry Ford]

So basically Obama is saying that if the Republicans don't raise the debt ceiling, that the gov't is not going to pay the interest and principal of treasury notes, bills and bonds...correct?

If that is the case, it really would be a horrific economic event if that happened.

I don't take sides in this, as they are all idiots. But Obama is like the head coach of a football team. If the defense stinks and the offense is awesome, but the team fails to win because one side is letting them down, the coach gets canned.

He's the leader of the ship. If it goes down, he has to take blame.

That's actually one of the best analogies I've read on the subject.

When does he get to bench Boehner?

 

[Slapdash]

Listening to President Obama on the radio just now. He says he will NOT invoke the 14th Amendment. He does not believe he has the legal right to do so. He also points out that by the time it came to that anyhow, he fears the market will have collapsed.

What an idiot.

Who, me? Or Barack?

Colossally stupid thing for Obama to say. He's supposed to be engendering confidence in the markets and the system, not stoking fears.

What if in fact he's much more interested in doing something else?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2%80%93Piven_strategy

Not sure how causing a panic in the debt markets is going to bring about a BIG.

I didn't say such a tactic would be particularly effective. One could argue though that this is just another step toward generating the major transitional crisis to which the article made mention. I guess we'll find out.

If the Democratic Party was at all interested in a basic income program, they would have at least mentioned it in the aftermath of the financial collapse. They aren't and didn't.

 

[TheIronSheik]

So basically Obama is saying that if the Republicans don't raise the debt ceiling, that the gov't is not going to pay the interest and principal of treasury notes, bills and bonds...correct?

If that is the case, it really would be a horrific economic event if that happened.

I don't take sides in this, as they are all idiots. But Obama is like the head coach of a football team. If the defense stinks and the offense is awesome, but the team fails to win because one side is letting them down, the coach gets canned.

He's the leader of the ship. If it goes down, he has to take blame.

That's actually one of the best analogies I've read on the subject.

When does he get to bench Boehner?

Think of Boehner like the owner's son who got the position through nepotism. You can't fire him. But you have to work with him.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

Listening to President Obama on the radio just now. He says he will NOT invoke the 14th Amendment. He does not believe he has the legal right to do so. He also points out that by the time it came to that anyhow, he fears the market will have collapsed.

What an idiot.

I completely disagree with Obama on this. He's taking out an idiotic position here.

I'm absolutely of the opinion that Obama should ignore the debt limit if and when it becomes necessary, and choose to fulfill the other part of his constitutional mandate to enforce spending that congress has already authorized. But in doing so he would be choosing the least bad of two probably illegal courses of action. If he announces ahead of time he's going to do it, he's practically double-dog daring the worst of the Republicans to force the issue on him and all the legal carnage that would ensue.

I'd much rather keep the pressure and onus where it belongs, which is on congress to fund the laws they have already passed.

 

[tom22406]

Congressional Aides Withholding Sex Until Budget Compromise Is Reached
WASHINGTON—As the shutdown of the federal government enters its second week, with legislators on both sides of the aisle having so far failed to bring a resolution to the negotiating table, sources confirmed Tuesday that Washington’s congressional aides have opted to withhold sex from their employers until a budget compromise is reached. “We were all hoping it would never come to this, but unless lawmakers agree to put aside their differences and get the government moving again, then any and all clandestine sexual intercourse with us is simply off the table,” said Allison Pereira, 26, personal aide to Rep. Tom Massie (R-KY) and just one of hundreds of Capitol Hill staffers who reportedly have resolved to deny the nation’s elected officials sexual favors of any kind until they hammer out an evenhanded federal budget agreement that resolves the Obamacare stalemate and ends the shutdown. “With hundreds of thousands of government employees out of work and the congressional process held hostage to partisan gridlock, we have no chance but to leverage our most powerful bargaining chip. So until they figure out a budget deal, sex is off. And that includes oral sex and hand jobs, by the way.” In the absence of gratification from their subordinates, sources confirmed that the sex boycott has forced all 535 U.S. senators and House representatives to avail themselves of D.C.’s various escort services and brothels, at an estimated cost to the American taxpayer of $6.2 million.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/congressional-aides-withholding-sex-until-budget-c,34151/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=Default%3A1%3ADefault

 

[Henry Ford]

So basically Obama is saying that if the Republicans don't raise the debt ceiling, that the gov't is not going to pay the interest and principal of treasury notes, bills and bonds...correct?

If that is the case, it really would be a horrific economic event if that happened.

I don't take sides in this, as they are all idiots. But Obama is like the head coach of a football team. If the defense stinks and the offense is awesome, but the team fails to win because one side is letting them down, the coach gets canned.

He's the leader of the ship. If it goes down, he has to take blame.

That's actually one of the best analogies I've read on the subject.

When does he get to bench Boehner?

Think of Boehner like the owner's son who got the position through nepotism. You can't fire him. But you have to work with him.

Why do the Republicans get to own the government in this example, but Obama can be fired?Like, is he the owner's son and also the captain of the defense? Because that's stupid.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Letter to a Georgia Republican:

Kaplan noted that his beloved team "sent batters to the plate at least 40 times" in Monday's 4-3 Dodgers win, which eliminated the Braves from the playoffs."But just because we couldn't score enough runs, the Dodgers refuse to relinquish the title — and worse, they won't even discuss it," Kaplan wrote. "LA's stubborn refusal to even talk to us about reversing the results of this series is un-sportsmanlike and un-American.

But there is an answer: If the Dodgers won't listen to the cries of average Americans like you and me, then Congress should outlaw Major League Baseball until the Dodgers cave."

He then called on Kingston to take a stand.

"Just because the Dodgers had more hits, scored more runs, and won more games doesn't make them right," Kaplan wrote in closing. "You can help them see that."

 

[badmojo1006]

Letter to a Georgia Republican:

Kaplan noted that his beloved team "sent batters to the plate at least 40 times" in Monday's 4-3 Dodgers win, which eliminated the Braves from the playoffs."But just because we couldn't score enough runs, the Dodgers refuse to relinquish the title — and worse, they won't even discuss it," Kaplan wrote. "LA's stubborn refusal to even talk to us about reversing the results of this series is un-sportsmanlike and un-American.

But there is an answer: If the Dodgers won't listen to the cries of average Americans like you and me, then Congress should outlaw Major League Baseball until the Dodgers cave."

He then called on Kingston to take a stand.

"Just because the Dodgers had more hits, scored more runs, and won more games doesn't make them right," Kaplan wrote in closing. "You can help them see that."

 

[TheIronSheik]

So basically Obama is saying that if the Republicans don't raise the debt ceiling, that the gov't is not going to pay the interest and principal of treasury notes, bills and bonds...correct?

If that is the case, it really would be a horrific economic event if that happened.

I don't take sides in this, as they are all idiots. But Obama is like the head coach of a football team. If the defense stinks and the offense is awesome, but the team fails to win because one side is letting them down, the coach gets canned.

He's the leader of the ship. If it goes down, he has to take blame.

That's actually one of the best analogies I've read on the subject.

When does he get to bench Boehner?

Think of Boehner like the owner's son who got the position through nepotism. You can't fire him. But you have to work with him.

Why do the Republicans get to own the government in this example, but Obama can be fired?

Boehner's dad would be an Independent in this scenario. Probably voted for Obama the first time, but voted Green Party in 2012. Also, the team hasn't been performing that great over the past couple decades, but people still refer to it as "America's Team." His dad would probably have gray hair and be good looking. But not overly. Just enough to make you look at him and say, "Damn. I'd like to spend a night with him and a couple of martinis." He'd probably be a smooth talker that could get away with saying something offensive, just by laughing and saying, "C'mon. I wasn't serious." Then taking his arm and putting it around your shoulder. Caressing you in a way that made you feel like a man's man. But not in the good way.

What were we talking about?

 

[Henry Ford]

So basically Obama is saying that if the Republicans don't raise the debt ceiling, that the gov't is not going to pay the interest and principal of treasury notes, bills and bonds...correct?

If that is the case, it really would be a horrific economic event if that happened.

I don't take sides in this, as they are all idiots. But Obama is like the head coach of a football team. If the defense stinks and the offense is awesome, but the team fails to win because one side is letting them down, the coach gets canned.

He's the leader of the ship. If it goes down, he has to take blame.

That's actually one of the best analogies I've read on the subject.

When does he get to bench Boehner?

Think of Boehner like the owner's son who got the position through nepotism. You can't fire him. But you have to work with him.

Why do the Republicans get to own the government in this example, but Obama can be fired?

Boehner's dad would be an Independent in this scenario. Probably voted for Obama the first time, but voted Green Party in 2012. Also, the team hasn't been performing that great over the past couple decades, but people still refer to it as "America's Team." His dad would probably have gray hair and be good looking. But not overly. Just enough to make you look at him and say, "Damn. I'd like to spend a night with him and a couple of martinis." He'd probably be a smooth talker that could get away with saying something offensive, just by laughing and saying, "C'mon. I wasn't serious." Then taking his arm and putting it around your shoulder. Caressing you in a way that made you feel like a man's man. But not in the good way.What were we talking about?

Burt Reynolds.

 

[TheIronSheik]

So basically Obama is saying that if the Republicans don't raise the debt ceiling, that the gov't is not going to pay the interest and principal of treasury notes, bills and bonds...correct?

If that is the case, it really would be a horrific economic event if that happened.

I don't take sides in this, as they are all idiots. But Obama is like the head coach of a football team. If the defense stinks and the offense is awesome, but the team fails to win because one side is letting them down, the coach gets canned.

He's the leader of the ship. If it goes down, he has to take blame.

That's actually one of the best analogies I've read on the subject.

When does he get to bench Boehner?

Think of Boehner like the owner's son who got the position through nepotism. You can't fire him. But you have to work with him.

Why do the Republicans get to own the government in this example, but Obama can be fired?

Boehner's dad would be an Independent in this scenario. Probably voted for Obama the first time, but voted Green Party in 2012. Also, the team hasn't been performing that great over the past couple decades, but people still refer to it as "America's Team." His dad would probably have gray hair and be good looking. But not overly. Just enough to make you look at him and say, "Damn. I'd like to spend a night with him and a couple of martinis." He'd probably be a smooth talker that could get away with saying something offensive, just by laughing and saying, "C'mon. I wasn't serious." Then taking his arm and putting it around your shoulder. Caressing you in a way that made you feel like a man's man. But not in the good way.What were we talking about?

Burt Reynolds.

Exactly!

 

[Henry Ford]

So basically Obama is saying that if the Republicans don't raise the debt ceiling, that the gov't is not going to pay the interest and principal of treasury notes, bills and bonds...correct?

If that is the case, it really would be a horrific economic event if that happened.

I don't take sides in this, as they are all idiots. But Obama is like the head coach of a football team. If the defense stinks and the offense is awesome, but the team fails to win because one side is letting them down, the coach gets canned.

He's the leader of the ship. If it goes down, he has to take blame.

That's actually one of the best analogies I've read on the subject.

When does he get to bench Boehner?

Think of Boehner like the owner's son who got the position through nepotism. You can't fire him. But you have to work with him.

Why do the Republicans get to own the government in this example, but Obama can be fired?

Boehner's dad would be an Independent in this scenario. Probably voted for Obama the first time, but voted Green Party in 2012. Also, the team hasn't been performing that great over the past couple decades, but people still refer to it as "America's Team." His dad would probably have gray hair and be good looking. But not overly. Just enough to make you look at him and say, "Damn. I'd like to spend a night with him and a couple of martinis." He'd probably be a smooth talker that could get away with saying something offensive, just by laughing and saying, "C'mon. I wasn't serious." Then taking his arm and putting it around your shoulder. Caressing you in a way that made you feel like a man's man. But not in the good way.What were we talking about?

Burt Reynolds.

Exactly!

It's the mustache. Looks like it would sweep away shame like a broom.

 

[Slapdash]

Listening to President Obama on the radio just now. He says he will NOT invoke the 14th Amendment. He does not believe he has the legal right to do so. He also points out that by the time it came to that anyhow, he fears the market will have collapsed.

What an idiot.

I completely disagree with Obama on this. He's taking out an idiotic position here.

I'm absolutely of the opinion that Obama should ignore the debt limit if and when it becomes necessary, and choose to fulfill the other part of his constitutional mandate to enforce spending that congress has already authorized. But in doing so he would be choosing the least bad of two probably illegal courses of action. If he announces ahead of time he's going to do it, he's practically double-dog daring the worst of the Republicans to force the issue on him and all the legal carnage that would ensue.

I'd much rather keep the pressure and onus where it belongs, which is on congress to fund the laws they have already passed.

No reason to show your hand at this point. By telling the GOP that your only choices are to hit the ceiling or negotiate them, you weaken your chances of having a favorable negotiation. Typical though.

 

[Jim11]

Forbes writer(economics prof) seems to disagree with Timmy...hmmmm, I wonder who is more credible on the subject? Interesting read, IMO.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2013/10/03/dont-believe-the-debt-ceiling-hype-the-federal-government-can-survive-without-an-increase/

The federal government actually reached the legal debt ceiling about four months ago. Since then, the government has been financing its monthly budget deficit by stealing/borrowing money from other government funds, like the federal government employees’ pension fund. In about two weeks, the government will run out of tricks to keep operating as if nothing has happened. If the debt ceiling is not raised by then, the government has to balance its budget.

That’s right. As much as the politicians and news media have tried to convince you that the world will end without a debt ceiling increase, it is simply not true. The federal debt ceiling sets a legal limit for how much money the federal government can borrow. In other words, it places an upper limit on the national debt. It is like the credit limit on the government’s gold card.

 

[shader]

So basically Obama is saying that if the Republicans don't raise the debt ceiling, that the gov't is not going to pay the interest and principal of treasury notes, bills and bonds...correct?

If that is the case, it really would be a horrific economic event if that happened.

I don't take sides in this, as they are all idiots. But Obama is like the head coach of a football team. If the defense stinks and the offense is awesome, but the team fails to win because one side is letting them down, the coach gets canned.

He's the leader of the ship. If it goes down, he has to take blame.

That's actually one of the best analogies I've read on the subject.

When does he get to bench Boehner?

Think of Boehner like the owner's son who got the position through nepotism. You can't fire him. But you have to work with him.

Why do the Republicans get to own the government in this example, but Obama can be fired?

Boehner's dad would be an Independent in this scenario. Probably voted for Obama the first time, but voted Green Party in 2012. Also, the team hasn't been performing that great over the past couple decades, but people still refer to it as "America's Team." His dad would probably have gray hair and be good looking. But not overly. Just enough to make you look at him and say, "Damn. I'd like to spend a night with him and a couple of martinis." He'd probably be a smooth talker that could get away with saying something offensive, just by laughing and saying, "C'mon. I wasn't serious." Then taking his arm and putting it around your shoulder. Caressing you in a way that made you feel like a man's man. But not in the good way.

What were we talking about?

What if Boehner is being hamstrung by the lack of a pass rush and erratic play from the secondary, ie the Tea Party. So basically the secondary is killing the team. Doh! Tim was right.

 

[Slapdash]

Forbes writer(economics prof) seems to disagree with Timmy...hmmmm, I wonder who is more credible on the subject? Interesting read, IMO.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2013/10/03/dont-believe-the-debt-ceiling-hype-the-federal-government-can-survive-without-an-increase/

The federal government actually reached the legal debt ceiling about four months ago. Since then, the government has been financing its monthly budget deficit by stealing/borrowing money from other government funds, like the federal government employees’ pension fund. In about two weeks, the government will run out of tricks to keep operating as if nothing has happened. If the debt ceiling is not raised by then, the government has to balance its budget.

That’s right. As much as the politicians and news media have tried to convince you that the world will end without a debt ceiling increase, it is simply not true. The federal debt ceiling sets a legal limit for how much money the federal government can borrow. In other words, it places an upper limit on the national debt. It is like the credit limit on the government’s gold card.

Maybe if this dude was talking about plants he would sound smarter.

 

[Phil Elliott]

So basically Obama is saying that if the Republicans don't raise the debt ceiling, that the gov't is not going to pay the interest and principal of treasury notes, bills and bonds...correct?

If that is the case, it really would be a horrific economic event if that happened.

I don't take sides in this, as they are all idiots. But Obama is like the head coach of a football team. If the defense stinks and the offense is awesome, but the team fails to win because one side is letting them down, the coach gets canned.

He's the leader of the ship. If it goes down, he has to take blame.

The defensive coach gets canned. Mack Brown still has his job.

 

[timschochet]

OK. don't listen to me on the subjec. Listem to Jim11 and Tommy instead. Let's not raise the debt ceiling and see what happens.

 

[shader]

The market wasn't too thrilled with the day's events.

 

[shader]

OK. don't listen to me on the subjec. Listem to Jim11 and Tommy instead. Let's not raise the debt ceiling and see what happens.

Lhucks stock market thread will finally come true

 

[TheIronSheik]

OK. don't listen to me on the subjec. Listem to Jim11 and Tommy instead. Let's not raise the debt ceiling and see what happens.

So...... You're conceding?

 

[Phil Elliott]

OK. don't listen to me on the subjec. Listem to Jim11 and Tommy instead. Let's not raise the debt ceiling and see what happens.

Buying opportunity.

 

[dparker713]

You can blame both sides for the deficit, but you can't blame both sides for the current impasse. Democrats adopted the Republicans' spending level for the continuing resolution and they still won't allow a vote on it in the House.

Actually you can blame both sides in the sense that you'd blame a person being extorted for refusing to pay the blackmail.

Party A: Give me $1,000,000 or I'll release the photos.

Party B: No.

But that seems sort of silly.

Of course you frame this in the most ridiculous terms. The reality here is both sides are taking hardline positions that make it impossible. You can always negotitate something. This idea that you can't even talk to the other side is absurd arroagance of power. If you can't acknowledge that, you are just being a partisan hack.

There are plenty of things Republicans could be proposing here than would be reasonable, however repealing ACA is not. They might as well be asking Obama to give them Malia or Sasha.

Negotiations always start from the point of both sides making unrealistic positions. It is the negotiations which try to somehow find common ground somewhere. This spitting back rhetoric back and forth is about as useful as the couple of left-wing nuts here who insist on bringing personal insults into this discussion.

What is unrealistic about the democrats' demand that Congress fund the government?

Besides the fact that our debt is spiraling out of control at unsubstainable rates and that future generations of Americans are doomed to be slaves to China.....nothing at all.

People have been making that claim since the 40s. Well, not the China part because that would have been silly back then.

 

[timschochet]

OK. don't listen to me on the subjec. Listem to Jim11 and Tommy instead. Let's not raise the debt ceiling and see what happens.

So...... You're conceding?

Sure, why not? They seem to want this so badly. Let them have it.

 

[dparker713]

Negotiations always start from the point of both sides making unrealistic positions. It is the negotiations which try to somehow find common ground somewhere. This spitting back rhetoric back and forth is about as useful as the couple of left-wing nuts here who insist on bringing personal insults into this discussion.

It's not the positions, it's the tactic: purposefully failing to call an annual apropriations bill to vote is not a legitimate means to open a negotiation. This is not how business is done.

Having closed door sessions with only one-party invited where you craft the future of American health care is not how business should be done either.

Why not? What's the point of having a supermajority if you don't use it?

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

I'm absolutely of the opinion that Obama should ignore the debt limit if and when it becomes necessary, and choose to fulfill the other part of his constitutional mandate to enforce spending that congress has already authorized. But in doing so he would be choosing the least bad of two probably illegal courses of action. If he announces ahead of time he's going to do it, he's practically double-dog daring the worst of the Republicans to force the issue on him and all the legal carnage that would ensue.

I'd much rather keep the pressure and onus where it belongs, which is on congress to fund the laws they have already passed.

No reason to show your hand at this point. By telling the GOP that your only choices are to hit the ceiling or negotiate them, you weaken your chances of having a favorable negotiation. Typical though.

Those are the only two choices though. The only remaining question is that if congress refuses to authorize the ability to pay for the laws they have passed, what the executive response would be to try to minimize the immediate and fallout damage to the economy. I've previously been of the opinion that the President should make it clear he'll either ignore the debt limit or authorize seigniorage to avoid default, but on further reading I've been more or less persuaded those would cause similar level of economic damage and uncertainty. Raising the debt limit is the only way to avoid a significant and global economic disruption.

 

[Jim11]

OK. don't listen to me on the subjec. Listem to Jim11 and Tommy instead. Let's not raise the debt ceiling and see what happens.

It will probably be raised, but I hope not. Maybe then the fed.govt. would finally stop spending so much...and wasting so much.

One relatively minor example of govt. waste from first hand knowledge - Each year, when September comes along, people are sent on bogus travel excursions and unecessary software is purchased. Why? So that the travel and software budgets aren't trimmed the following year. Yes, the powers that be might cut your budget if you don't spend it all...obviously, if you don't spend the alloted amount in year "abc", then you must need less for year "xyz".

 

[The Ref]

It may seem like a dumb move (not using the 14th to his advantage) but it may dare everyone back to the table. It's his way of saying "I'm not taking the heat on this, you need to come to a conclusion and fast congress".

 

[dparker713]

Revealed: The House GOP’s Debt-Ceiling Plan

By Jonathan Strong
September 25, 2013 6:54 PM

Below is an outline of the GOP’s debt-ceiling bill obtained by National Review Online. The document originated from staff to a senior member of the House Appropriations Committee and is dated yesterday. A GOP-leadership aide says there are some differences between this and their latest summary, so take that for what it’s worth. As always with the House Republicans, it is subject to discussion from members, many of whom are quite vocal in providing their input on such plans.

House leadership is planning to pass the bill as early as Saturday. The bill itself is expected to be released imminently. The outline is not a huge surprise — most of the provisions have been floated or leaked, but it’s interesting to see the breadth of the demands laid out on paper.

Voting to increase the debt ceiling is always a brutal vote for lawmakers, because it’s very unpopular with their constituents back home. House conservatives also worry about undermining the Senate process and particularly Senator Ted Cruz’s fight in that chamber. For example, there have been efforts to keep the House’s plans under the radar until after the final cloture vote in order not to hinder Cruz’s push for the GOP to filibuster.
...

Formatting won't survive, but here is a handy list.

ETA: My attempt at formatting

Our Debt Limit Bill on Friday

 One Year Debt Limit Increase
o Not a dollar amount increase, but suspending the debt limit until the end of December 2014.
 Similar to what we did earlier this year.
o Want the year long to align with the year delay of Obamacare.

 One Year Obamacare delay

 Tax Reform Instructions
o Similar to a bill we passed last fall, laying out broad from Ryan Budget principles for what tax
reform should look like.
o Gives fast track authority for tax reform legislation

 Energy and regulatory reforms to promote economic growth
o Includes pretty much every jobs bill we have passed this year and last Congress
o All of these policies have important positive economic effects.
o Energy provisions
 Keystone Pipeline
 Coal Ash regulations
 Offshore drilling
 Energy production on federal lands
 EPA Carbon regulations
o Regulatory reform
 REINS Act
 Regulatory process reform
 Consent decree reform
 Blocking Net Neutrality

 Mandatory Spending Reforms
o Mostly from the sequester replacement bills we passed last year
o Federal Employee retirement reform
o Ending the Dodd Frank bailout fund
o Transitioning CFPB funding to Appropriations
o Child Tax Credit Reform to prevent fraud
o Repealing the Social Services Block grant

 Health Spending Reforms
o Means testing Medicare
o Repealing a Medicaid Provider tax gimmick
o Tort reform
o Altering Disproportion Share Hospitals
o Repealing the Public Health trust Fund

That list is laughable. Even more laughable is the timeframe. They're asking for the moon and there isn't enough time left to negotiate all of that even if anyone was willing.

 

[humpback]

Just give us your leverage, and we'll be happy to negotiate with you.

 

[humpback]

It may seem like a dumb move (not using the 14th to his advantage) but it may dare everyone back to the table. It's his way of saying "I'm not taking the heat on this, you need to come to a conclusion and fast congress".

Not seeing this at all.

 

[Slapdash]

I'm absolutely of the opinion that Obama should ignore the debt limit if and when it becomes necessary, and choose to fulfill the other part of his constitutional mandate to enforce spending that congress has already authorized. But in doing so he would be choosing the least bad of two probably illegal courses of action. If he announces ahead of time he's going to do it, he's practically double-dog daring the worst of the Republicans to force the issue on him and all the legal carnage that would ensue.

I'd much rather keep the pressure and onus where it belongs, which is on congress to fund the laws they have already passed.

No reason to show your hand at this point. By telling the GOP that your only choices are to hit the ceiling or negotiate them, you weaken your chances of having a favorable negotiation. Typical though.

Those are the only two choices though. The only remaining question is that if congress refuses to authorize the ability to pay for the laws they have passed, what the executive response would be to try to minimize the immediate and fallout damage to the economy. I've previously been of the opinion that the President should make it clear he'll either ignore the debt limit or authorize seigniorage to avoid default, but on further reading I've been more or less persuaded those would cause similar level of economic damage and uncertainty. Raising the debt limit is the only way to avoid a significant and global economic disruption.

I don't agree. Seigniorage and invoking the 14th are not really different from just raising the debt limit. Both have the same result. There would probably be legal fallout, but not economic. It could even result in less uncertainty as market participants would no longer have to fear factions of the government putting default on the table.

 

[humpback]

That list is laughable. Even more laughable is the timeframe. They're asking for the moon and there isn't enough time left to negotiate all of that even if anyone was willing.

The list may be laughable, but I'm so ####### sick of hearing the excuse that there "isn't enough time". This same bull#### has gone on for years now, and every single time we hear "there's just not enough time". Complete bull####.

 

[dparker713]

Forbes writer(economics prof) seems to disagree with Timmy...hmmmm, I wonder who is more credible on the subject? Interesting read, IMO.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2013/10/03/dont-believe-the-debt-ceiling-hype-the-federal-government-can-survive-without-an-increase/

The federal government actually reached the legal debt ceiling about four months ago. Since then, the government has been financing its monthly budget deficit by stealing/borrowing money from other government funds, like the federal government employees’ pension fund. In about two weeks, the government will run out of tricks to keep operating as if nothing has happened. If the debt ceiling is not raised by then, the government has to balance its budget.

That’s right. As much as the politicians and news media have tried to convince you that the world will end without a debt ceiling increase, it is simply not true. The federal debt ceiling sets a legal limit for how much money the federal government can borrow. In other words, it places an upper limit on the national debt. It is like the credit limit on the government’s gold card.

Wow, that dude is a major idiot.

 

[mcintyre1]

So the Republicans want to choose which parts of the Govt should be open and are crying that the Dems want all if the Govt open?

And yet the Dems are to blame? How about the house put it to a vote and let the chips fall. If it goes down then we will know that the Dems need to offer something, but if it passes then te agovt is open and everyone wins!

Except for the future generations who are being left with this huge albatross of endless debt around their necks. Big win for them.

Yeah... I'm going to have to go ahead and ask you to not speak for my generation. There's nothing 'future' about the debt the GOP put on young people starting in 2000/2001 and the Dems were forced to expand in the resulting economic collapse. We're living the reality right now. Working un-paid internships, part-time jobs, all without basic benefits.

It's pretty clear that we're (as a generation) not on board with the Tea Party's ideas. Don't throw up this TP temper tantrum as some idyllic stand for the future of our country.