Carolina was pointing out a total lie/spin put out by Scoresman. Scoresman is turning this thread into a suckfest singlehandedly.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
The Tea Party is back in business! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
timschochet
Footballguy
So the Democratic Senate should have simply agreed to defund Obamacare?
Scoresman
Footballguy
It's a given since the Repubs are the ones causing the shutdown.Scoresman said:Even the Taliban think House Republicans are stupid.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...us-government-shutdown/2957821/?csp=fbfanpagehttp://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/10/10/taliban-mocks-us-government-shutdown/2957821/?csp=fbfanpage
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...us-government-shutdown/2957821/?csp=fbfanpage[/indent]
I missed the part where the Taliban singled out the GOP House.
timschochet
Footballguy
I stopped paying attention to Scoresman after he compared the House Republicans to Hitler.
What if most of the world thinks it's okay to exterminate the Jews except for them?
Which is an odd claim since 51 percent oppose Obama's approach too. Sorry, Tim but your spin is BS. More people may dislike how the GOP is handling it, but the majority of people are not letting Obama off the hook like you wish to do. The both parties suck is how the majority of people are viewing this. Maybe Obama sucks less, but is that really what you want to hang your hat on?
That's solid proof, right there.
I already pointed out my opinion like 10,000 times!
Scoresman
Footballguy
msommer
Footballguy
It's not as if he is the only one - and it pads the posts to state the same argument over and over again...
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
I'm kind of shocked no one has blamed Bush yet.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
I know. And I'm not trying to pick on him. After I read my post, I thought I came off like I was angry. I was not. It was just a serious question. I've never had an issue with Tim.
Joe T
Footballguy
I guess they left out the sequesters impact on cost savings in the calculation. Oops, they probably forgot that part though.Slapdash said:
The last debt ceiling debate resulted in cost cutting. That was the result of the negotiations that allowed the debt ceiling to be raised. Its pretty odd and unfortunate that in a "study" and "article" on the costs of the last Debt Ceiling Debate they would ignore the cost savings that were a direct result of the debate.
The article and its conclusion are laughable.
Last edited by a moderator:
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
What use is it to take hostages if you're not willing to kill them when you don't get what you want? If Republicans surrender now this will never work again. But if they keep government closed and let the US default it will give them more leverage next time. AMIRITE?
timschochet
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
What kind of law gets passed by one Congress but can't get funded by following Congresses?
This has got to be the dumbest thing as now our entire government, good bad necessary awesome and pernicious elements, all of it together, is shut down completely.
For goodness sake just fund everything else and then put the funding for this thing up to a straight up or down vote.
This has got to be the dumbest thing as now our entire government, good bad necessary awesome and pernicious elements, all of it together, is shut down completely.
For goodness sake just fund everything else and then put the funding for this thing up to a straight up or down vote.
timschochet
Footballguy
I just want to blame the Tea Party. So long as that happens, and we don't go into default, I'm good.
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
And your perspective should be considered completely unbiased..
Conservatives blame the "progressives", not both sides.. You living in a hole?
I'm an independent, and I think progressives are more to blame than conservatives.. There goes your theory..
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
Not so fast ..It's a given since the Repubs are the ones causing the shutdown.I missed the part where the Taliban singled out the GOP House.Scoresman said:
Sure, but it wouldn't be very comparable to your argument. If most of the groups outside of the Jews feel it's right to exterminate them, they must be right. What the Jews think isn't terribly important.
Last edited by a moderator:
Democrats essentially cut off funding for the Vietnam war, which many historians believe lead to the fall of Siagon. Democrats also threatened to defund the Iraq War, although they never followed through on that.
timschochet
Footballguy
Serios answer: i almost never believe I am 100% correct. I have strong opinions, but they can be changed if facts contradict them. In this case I believe it's important that we focus the blame on the Republicans where it belongs- not for political reasons per se, but because I truly feel that the Tea Party is a danger to our political system.
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
Legislation by appropriation.. And it happens ALL THE TIME..
Completely agree with the bolded, but liberals know they can't get funds for obamacare unless they hold the rest of the country hostage..
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
There is abolutely no debate that the House holds the purse strings. That's the idea. We may disagree with teh policy but there can never be any doubt it is the House's prerogative. On the other hand it is not the prerogative of the executive to choose which laws to execute.
This government has been sitting around sinec 2009 doing almost nothing but talk about this law back and forth over and over again. Just vote on teh funding separately and let's get on with it.
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
The repubs already tried this..
The dems prefer to hold the rest of the country hostage because they know funding for obamacare alone will not pass a vote..
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
How insane is this.
President: I won't sign the budget if ACA isn't it.
House: we won't pass a budget if ACA is in it.
I'm reminded of Pink Floyd here - how can you have your pudding if you don't eat your meat, if you don't eat your meat how can you have any pudding. I think they were literally talking about 7th grade pedantry.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
For God's sake exactly - what kind of law passes one Congress but can't get funded by another?
It's a bad bloomin' law. - Nobody ever wanted to pay for this and they still don't. The moderate House Democrats who voted for it by and large got thrown out of office, they're not there any more and they're not coming back.
Last edited by a moderator:
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
The polls Tim decides to cut-n-paste don't lieThat's solid proof, right there.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
It's been upheld every time it's been put to an actual vote, and upheld in the Supreme Court. A minority faction is trying to make an end run around our established political processes and you want to blame everyone but them?
Scoresman
Footballguy
Welcome to Conservative logic.It's been upheld every time it's been put to an actual vote, and upheld in the Supreme Court. A minority faction is trying to make an end run around our established political processes and you want to blame everyone but them?
It's really amazing how any supposed rational person can support the Tea Party here.
timschochet
Footballguy
SaintsinDome, such a proposal would allow the House Majority to become the most powerful branch of government. Rather than simply voting to fund the government, they could simply defund any specific law they disapproved of. It's a terrible idea; it would turn our system of government into chaos.
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
Which version? How many alterations?It's been upheld every time it's been put to an actual vote, and upheld in the Supreme Court. A minority faction is trying to make an end run around our established political processes and you want to blame everyone but them?
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
Simple fact is, republicans, Teapartiers, and some democrats are willing to pass a spending bill that covers everything but obamacare in order to keep things going.. Senate, and white-house refuse, and would rather hold the country hostage..
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Pick any iteration along the 40 ####### failed votes to overturn it you want.Which version? How many alterations?It's been upheld every time it's been put to an actual vote, and upheld in the Supreme Court. A minority faction is trying to make an end run around our established political processes and you want to blame everyone but them?
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
The way it's been done for years.. Since the first congress, they have always decided what we spent money on.. And have continually defunded previously passed legislation when it was called for..
It's called "Legislation by Appropriation"
Gr00vus
Footballguy
You're obviously clueless when it comes knowing what the word fact means. It doesn't mean any notion that comes into your head that you'd like to blurt out without any kind of supporting evidence. HTH.
Scoresman
Footballguy
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
http://www.newsmagazinenetwork.com/2013100940991/thomas-sowell-who-shut-down-the-government/Thomas Sowell – Who Shut Down the Government?Posted 10/09/13 4:43 pm /
Even when it comes to something as basic, and apparently as simple and straightforward, as the question of who shut down the federal government, there are diametrically opposite answers, depending on whether you talk to Democrats or to Republicans.
There is really nothing complicated about the facts. The Republican-controlled House of Representatives voted all the money required to keep all government activities going — except for ObamaCare.
This is not a matter of opinion. You can check the Congressional Record.
As for the House of Representatives’ right to grant or withhold money, that is not a matter of opinion either. You can check the Constitution of the United States. All spending bills must originate in the House of Representatives, which means that Congressmen there have a right to decide whether or not they want to spend money on a particular government activity.
Whether ObamaCare is good, bad or indifferent is a matter of opinion. But it is a matter of fact that members of the House of Representatives have a right to make spending decisions based on their opinion.
ObamaCare is indeed “the law of the land,” as its supporters keep saying, and the Supreme Court has upheld its Constitutionality.
But the whole point of having a division of powers within the federal government is that each branch can decide independently what it wants to do or not do, regardless of what the other branches do, when exercising the powers specifically granted to that branch by the Constitution.
The hundreds of thousands of government workers who have been laid off are not idle because the House of Representatives did not vote enough money to pay their salaries or the other expenses of their agencies — unless they are in an agency that would administer ObamaCare.
Since we cannot read minds, we cannot say who — if anybody — “wants to shut down the government.” But we do know who had the option to keep the government running and chose not to. The money voted by the House of Representatives covered everything that the government does, except for ObamaCare.
The Senate chose not to vote to authorize that money to be spent, because it did not include money for ObamaCare. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid says that he wants a “clean” bill from the House of Representatives, and some in the media keep repeating the word “clean” like a mantra. But what is unclean about not giving Harry Reid everything he wants?
If Senator Reid and President Obama refuse to accept the money required to run the government, because it leaves out the money they want to run ObamaCare, that is their right. But that is also their responsibility.
You cannot blame other people for not giving you everything you want. And it is a fraud to blame them when you refuse to use the money they did vote, even when it is ample to pay for everything else in the government.
When Barack Obama keeps claiming that it is some new outrage for those who control the money to try to change government policy by granting or withholding money, that is simply a bald-faced lie. You can check the history of other examples of “legislation by appropriation” as it used to be called.
Whether legislation by appropriation is a good idea or a bad idea is a matter of opinion. But whether it is both legal and not unprecedented is a matter of fact.
Perhaps the biggest of the big lies is that the government will not be able to pay what it owes on the national debt, creating a danger of default. Tax money keeps coming into the Treasury during the shutdown, and it vastly exceeds the interest that has to be paid on the national debt.
Even if the debt ceiling is not lifted, that only means that government is not allowed to run up new debt. But that does not mean that it is unable to pay the interest on existing debt.
None of this is rocket science. But unless the Republicans get their side of the story out — and articulation has never been their strong suit — the lies will win. More important, the whole country will lose.
Last edited by a moderator:
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
That is the simple reality of it, of course you liberal shills won't admit it, but it's the truth..
Last edited by a moderator:
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I don't know what's funnier, the idea of me being a liberal shill, or "the truth." Both are hilarious, so I'll just switch over to Christo mode here, which is all your posts usually deserve anyway.
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
Read up buddy... Time to wake up..I don't know what's funnier, the idea of me being a liberal shill, or "the truth." Both are hilarious, so I'll just switch over to Christo mode here, which is all your posts usually deserve anyway.
Last edited by a moderator:
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
So you admit the bill was modified a number of times since it originally passed the House, that's the first step.Pick any iteration along the 40 ####### failed votes to overturn it you want.Which version? How many alterations?It's been upheld every time it's been put to an actual vote, and upheld in the Supreme Court. A minority faction is trying to make an end run around our established political processes and you want to blame everyone but them?
