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The Wire (1 Viewer)

Just another insight from real-life Baltimore. The reporter who makes stuff up at The Sun is also based on a real-life guy, Jim Haner. I have very mixed feelings about what David Simon has done with The Sun this year -- the top editors who he decries for creating a "Pulitzer at all costs" mentality are, to me, a couple of great guys (who, not coincidentally, gave my wife a big break by hiring her as a reporter at the paper). At the same time, I can't deny a lot of what he says about the newsroom.
I think Simon turning his lenses on the Media this season, has created many of the sour reviews that the show is getting. I for one have enjoyed this season very much. My only complaint is that they didn’t have more time to develop the news room story. But even with limited episodes, they somehow managed to get me emotionally invested in (at least) two of the new characters (Gus and Templeton). I care about what happens to them, even though we hardly know them yet. That is grade “A” work by the writers.
and actors. the guy who plays Gus is awesome. I still am amazed how easy it was to become involved with the kids from season 4. Those guys were introduced and fit right in.
i know this was mentioned earlier in this thread but clark johnson who plays gus was on homicide. hes great on there too. his partner was munch (belzer) who he walked past in that bar scene earlier this year. belzer was playing the same character but johnson was obviously not. very cool scene. he directed a few wire episodes prior to this season.
I was too young to enjoy Homicide while it aired. Im looking forward to going back and watching the entire series on DVD when the Wire ends.
I've been watching it on Court TV. I wish I had seen Homicide first. It kind of suffers because it's not as good as the Wire, and I'm constantly comparing them.
Yeah, I am kind of bracing myself for that (or trying to anyway). The Wire has that affect on most other shows that I watch. For instance, I enjoy The Shield, but if I watch it too soon after a season of the Wire, the poor acting is almost too much to look past and it definitely takes away from the quality of the show. Im finding it a little tough to adjust to lost this season because of it. I still enjoy the mystery of the show, but the acting performances really stick out in contrast.

 
Just another insight from real-life Baltimore. The reporter who makes stuff up at The Sun is also based on a real-life guy, Jim Haner. I have very mixed feelings about what David Simon has done with The Sun this year -- the top editors who he decries for creating a "Pulitzer at all costs" mentality are, to me, a couple of great guys (who, not coincidentally, gave my wife a big break by hiring her as a reporter at the paper). At the same time, I can't deny a lot of what he says about the newsroom.
I think Simon turning his lenses on the Media this season, has created many of the sour reviews that the show is getting. I for one have enjoyed this season very much. My only complaint is that they didn’t have more time to develop the news room story. But even with limited episodes, they somehow managed to get me emotionally invested in (at least) two of the new characters (Gus and Templeton). I care about what happens to them, even though we hardly know them yet. That is grade “A” work by the writers.
and actors. the guy who plays Gus is awesome. I still am amazed how easy it was to become involved with the kids from season 4. Those guys were introduced and fit right in.
i know this was mentioned earlier in this thread but clark johnson who plays gus was on homicide. hes great on there too. his partner was munch (belzer) who he walked past in that bar scene earlier this year. belzer was playing the same character but johnson was obviously not. very cool scene. he directed a few wire episodes prior to this season.
I was too young to enjoy Homicide while it aired. Im looking forward to going back and watching the entire series on DVD when the Wire ends.
It was on when I was in high school and college when the only thing on tv I watched was the simpsons. I went back and watched them inbetween seasons 2 and 3 of the wire. You will recognize a ton of at the time young actors on the show.
 
I bet Marlo realizes the leak is at the lawyers office - not sure what results, but that is what I believe will happen.
My guessBald guy also on Entourage....takes a bullet. He's always been getting himself into the thick of it and never learned to "wie up".
 
just finished watching the episode where Omar died. I was hoping he would get killed in a shoot out

 
I don't think it will end quietly. It is the end of the show - there is no movie in the works (there is a rumored prequel movie).I thought the preview scenes from the final episode showed Marlo out of prison. The only way that happened is if the wire-tap was exposed as a fraud - Marlo was initially denied bail - if he gets bail it is because the case is flawed. After the huge press conference announcing the arrests, it will be a PR nightmare when Marlo and crew (minus Chris who is in on Bunk's murder case) walk free. Heads will have to roll - and undoubtedly McNulty's will. He is the classic Greek tragic hero. This season has been as much about setting up his fall as any other story line.The newspaper is an interesting twist, ultimately though I think Templeton goes down as well. But maybe he spins it so that he was only doing what McNulty told him - who are you going to trust? I think even Templeton wins that credibility contest at this point. Maybe Gus walks away in disgust. I don't think he is the fall guy here - he has too many folks who know that he has washed his hands of Templeton, to be the fall guy for the paper.
I re-watched the preview for 5-10 last night, and Marlo is shown wearing a suit.
 
Big_Russel said:
Shaft said:
Big_Russel said:
Fiddles said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Just another insight from real-life Baltimore. The reporter who makes stuff up at The Sun is also based on a real-life guy, Jim Haner. I have very mixed feelings about what David Simon has done with The Sun this year -- the top editors who he decries for creating a "Pulitzer at all costs" mentality are, to me, a couple of great guys (who, not coincidentally, gave my wife a big break by hiring her as a reporter at the paper). At the same time, I can't deny a lot of what he says about the newsroom.
I think Simon turning his lenses on the Media this season, has created many of the sour reviews that the show is getting. I for one have enjoyed this season very much. My only complaint is that they didn’t have more time to develop the news room story. But even with limited episodes, they somehow managed to get me emotionally invested in (at least) two of the new characters (Gus and Templeton). I care about what happens to them, even though we hardly know them yet. That is grade “A” work by the writers.
and actors. the guy who plays Gus is awesome. I still am amazed how easy it was to become involved with the kids from season 4. Those guys were introduced and fit right in.
i know this was mentioned earlier in this thread but clark johnson who plays gus was on homicide. hes great on there too. his partner was munch (belzer) who he walked past in that bar scene earlier this year. belzer was playing the same character but johnson was obviously not. very cool scene. he directed a few wire episodes prior to this season.
I was too young to enjoy Homicide while it aired. Im looking forward to going back and watching the entire series on DVD when the Wire ends.
I've been watching it on Court TV. I wish I had seen Homicide first. It kind of suffers because it's not as good as the Wire, and I'm constantly comparing them.
Yeah, I am kind of bracing myself for that (or trying to anyway). The Wire has that affect on most other shows that I watch. For instance, I enjoy The Shield, but if I watch it too soon after a season of the Wire, the poor acting is almost too much to look past and it definitely takes away from the quality of the show. Im finding it a little tough to adjust to lost this season because of it. I still enjoy the mystery of the show, but the acting performances really stick out in contrast.
I know I'll get crucified for this in a Wire thread, but... Homicide isn't that great. I've started deleting it off my DVR. When it came out, I was probably watching NYPD Blue, and I think that was a better show. So is the Shield. Sure, Homicide is gritty and realistic, but it's basically a cop show, and there are plenty of those out there. It may have been "groundbreaking" to do a couple of episodes about cops trying to quit smoking, but come on.
 
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For all the people thinking Gus will go down instead of Templeton, there's one big reason that won't happen imo: McNutty. He knows that Templeton is FOS, "trapped in the same lie" as he says in the preview.
So McNulty is going to fall on his sword? McNulty? The police and the newsroom are going to have essentially the same choice. Do the right thing and catch hell, or sweep the lies under the rug. And there will be plenty of valid reasons to sweep the lies under the rug. Carcetti has had multiple speeches this season emphasizing just this point. That nobody can "make a difference" when they're bounced out of their jobs. So we get intstitutional officers who perhaps started with the intention of making a positive difference caught up in the inertia of suffocating political institutions. That's the message of The Wire in a nutshell.

McNulty is going to be asked to go away quietly. So will Gus. It's the ending that makes the most sense in regards to Simon's vision. In The Wire, only personal redemption is possible. The institutions will just get more and more screwed up.
This is how I see things playing out as well. McNulty's and Templeton's lies will not be exposed; they will be addressed internally, and both McNulty and Gus will be ushered out because of their unwillingness to go with the flow.I'm most curious to see what goes down with Marlo. Will his lawyer figure out the flaws of the investigation and get him out? If he gets out will he get popped?
This brings up one of the biggest questions I have at this point. Marlo basically got Herc fired, so Herc gives Carver the cell phone number knowing full well that Lester is going to "work it to death". So why does he then tell Levy about it? Why not just shut his mouth?
 
Big_Russel said:
Shaft said:
Big_Russel said:
Fiddles said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Just another insight from real-life Baltimore. The reporter who makes stuff up at The Sun is also based on a real-life guy, Jim Haner. I have very mixed feelings about what David Simon has done with The Sun this year -- the top editors who he decries for creating a "Pulitzer at all costs" mentality are, to me, a couple of great guys (who, not coincidentally, gave my wife a big break by hiring her as a reporter at the paper). At the same time, I can't deny a lot of what he says about the newsroom.
I think Simon turning his lenses on the Media this season, has created many of the sour reviews that the show is getting. I for one have enjoyed this season very much. My only complaint is that they didn’t have more time to develop the news room story. But even with limited episodes, they somehow managed to get me emotionally invested in (at least) two of the new characters (Gus and Templeton). I care about what happens to them, even though we hardly know them yet. That is grade “A” work by the writers.
and actors. the guy who plays Gus is awesome. I still am amazed how easy it was to become involved with the kids from season 4. Those guys were introduced and fit right in.
i know this was mentioned earlier in this thread but clark johnson who plays gus was on homicide. hes great on there too. his partner was munch (belzer) who he walked past in that bar scene earlier this year. belzer was playing the same character but johnson was obviously not. very cool scene. he directed a few wire episodes prior to this season.
I was too young to enjoy Homicide while it aired. Im looking forward to going back and watching the entire series on DVD when the Wire ends.
I've been watching it on Court TV. I wish I had seen Homicide first. It kind of suffers because it's not as good as the Wire, and I'm constantly comparing them.
Yeah, I am kind of bracing myself for that (or trying to anyway). The Wire has that affect on most other shows that I watch. For instance, I enjoy The Shield, but if I watch it too soon after a season of the Wire, the poor acting is almost too much to look past and it definitely takes away from the quality of the show. Im finding it a little tough to adjust to lost this season because of it. I still enjoy the mystery of the show, but the acting performances really stick out in contrast.
I know I'll get crucified for this in a Wire thread, but... Homicide isn't that great. I've started deleting it off my DVR. When it came out, I was probably watching NYPD Blue, and I think that was a better show. So is the Shield. Sure, Homicide is gritty and realistic, but it's basically a cop show, and there are plenty of those out there. It may have been "groundbreaking" to do a couple of episodes about cops trying to quit smoking, but come on.
homicides more about charcters than plotif focuses more on people than it does action

very rare for a cop show

 
This brings up one of the biggest questions I have at this point. Marlo basically got Herc fired, so Herc gives Carver the cell phone number knowing full well that Lester is going to "work it to death". So why does he then tell Levy about it? Why not just shut his mouth?
One of two reasons in my opinion. 1. Herc felt slighted by the way Carver down played his contribution to the bust.2. Herc is an idiot.
 
Shrek said:
For all the people thinking Gus will go down instead of Templeton, there's one big reason that won't happen imo: McNutty. He knows that Templeton is FOS, "trapped in the same lie" as he says in the preview.
So McNulty is going to fall on his sword? McNulty? The police and the newsroom are going to have essentially the same choice. Do the right thing and catch hell, or sweep the lies under the rug. And there will be plenty of valid reasons to sweep the lies under the rug. Carcetti has had multiple speeches this season emphasizing just this point. That nobody can "make a difference" when they're bounced out of their jobs. So we get intstitutional officers who perhaps started with the intention of making a positive difference caught up in the inertia of suffocating political institutions. That's the message of The Wire in a nutshell.

McNulty is going to be asked to go away quietly. So will Gus. It's the ending that makes the most sense in regards to Simon's vision. In The Wire, only personal redemption is possible. The institutions will just get more and more screwed up.
This is how I see things playing out as well. McNulty's and Templeton's lies will not be exposed; they will be addressed internally, and both McNulty and Gus will be ushered out because of their unwillingness to go with the flow.I'm most curious to see what goes down with Marlo. Will his lawyer figure out the flaws of the investigation and get him out? If he gets out will he get popped?
This brings up one of the biggest questions I have at this point. Marlo basically got Herc fired, so Herc gives Carver the cell phone number knowing full well that Lester is going to "work it to death". So why does he then tell Levy about it? Why not just shut his mouth?
Because he's a pissy little #####. When Carver wouldn't give him his due earlier in the episode, he figured out a way to derail the whole thing.
 
Shrek said:
For all the people thinking Gus will go down instead of Templeton, there's one big reason that won't happen imo: McNutty. He knows that Templeton is FOS, "trapped in the same lie" as he says in the preview.
So McNulty is going to fall on his sword? McNulty? The police and the newsroom are going to have essentially the same choice. Do the right thing and catch hell, or sweep the lies under the rug. And there will be plenty of valid reasons to sweep the lies under the rug. Carcetti has had multiple speeches this season emphasizing just this point. That nobody can "make a difference" when they're bounced out of their jobs. So we get intstitutional officers who perhaps started with the intention of making a positive difference caught up in the inertia of suffocating political institutions. That's the message of The Wire in a nutshell.

McNulty is going to be asked to go away quietly. So will Gus. It's the ending that makes the most sense in regards to Simon's vision. In The Wire, only personal redemption is possible. The institutions will just get more and more screwed up.
This is how I see things playing out as well. McNulty's and Templeton's lies will not be exposed; they will be addressed internally, and both McNulty and Gus will be ushered out because of their unwillingness to go with the flow.I'm most curious to see what goes down with Marlo. Will his lawyer figure out the flaws of the investigation and get him out? If he gets out will he get popped?
This brings up one of the biggest questions I have at this point. Marlo basically got Herc fired, so Herc gives Carver the cell phone number knowing full well that Lester is going to "work it to death". So why does he then tell Levy about it? Why not just shut his mouth?
Because he's a pissy little #####. When Carver wouldn't give him his due earlier in the episode, he figured out a way to derail the whole thing.
It's not just that. While I'm sure revenge was the primary motivating factor in Herc giving the # to Carver to begin with, let us not forget that Herc was able to rationalize that what he was doing was good for business -- remember his lawyer boss telling him that it was great that Marlo had a cell phone because he was sure to eventually get busted which would mean a big payoff for the "firm." Herc essentially manufactured the bust just like McNutty manufactured the homeless serial killer.After the bust Herc is ticked off about not being given his due by Carver, but he also learns that "the police dept. is even more screwed up than when he was there." Herc definitely has an axe to grind with the police dept. after getting fired (btw, was it the camera or the minister incident that got Herc fired? Or both?). When you combine the revenge factor with the fact that it's also a great career move for Herc to rat out the police dept. for their unsavory tactics which led to the bust, it would be dumb for Herc not to tell his lawyer boss everything he knows.

 
For all the people thinking Gus will go down instead of Templeton, there's one big reason that won't happen imo: McNutty. He knows that Templeton is FOS, "trapped in the same lie" as he says in the preview.
So McNulty is going to fall on his sword? McNulty? The police and the newsroom are going to have essentially the same choice. Do the right thing and catch hell, or sweep the lies under the rug. And there will be plenty of valid reasons to sweep the lies under the rug. Carcetti has had multiple speeches this season emphasizing just this point. That nobody can "make a difference" when they're bounced out of their jobs. So we get intstitutional officers who perhaps started with the intention of making a positive difference caught up in the inertia of suffocating political institutions. That's the message of The Wire in a nutshell.

McNulty is going to be asked to go away quietly. So will Gus. It's the ending that makes the most sense in regards to Simon's vision. In The Wire, only personal redemption is possible. The institutions will just get more and more screwed up.
This is how I see things playing out as well. McNulty's and Templeton's lies will not be exposed; they will be addressed internally, and both McNulty and Gus will be ushered out because of their unwillingness to go with the flow.I'm most curious to see what goes down with Marlo. Will his lawyer figure out the flaws of the investigation and get him out? If he gets out will he get popped?
This brings up one of the biggest questions I have at this point. Marlo basically got Herc fired, so Herc gives Carver the cell phone number knowing full well that Lester is going to "work it to death". So why does he then tell Levy about it? Why not just shut his mouth?
Because he's a pissy little #####. When Carver wouldn't give him his due earlier in the episode, he figured out a way to derail the whole thing.
It's not just that. While I'm sure revenge was the primary motivating factor in Herc giving the # to Carver to begin with, let us not forget that Herc was able to rationalize that what he was doing was good for business -- remember his lawyer boss telling him that it was great that Marlo had a cell phone because he was sure to eventually get busted which would mean a big payoff for the "firm." Herc essentially manufactured the bust just like McNutty manufactured the homeless serial killer.After the bust Herc is ticked off about not being given his due by Carver, but he also learns that "the police dept. is even more screwed up than when he was there." Herc definitely has an axe to grind with the police dept. after getting fired (btw, was it the camera or the minister incident that got Herc fired? Or both?). When you combine the revenge factor with the fact that it's also a great career move for Herc to rat out the police dept. for their unsavory tactics which led to the bust, it would be dumb for Herc not to tell his lawyer boss everything he knows.
He didnt tell Levy that he gave him the number though, did he? I thought he just said they must have gotten a hold of it somehow. :sadbanana:
 
For all the people thinking Gus will go down instead of Templeton, there's one big reason that won't happen imo: McNutty. He knows that Templeton is FOS, "trapped in the same lie" as he says in the preview.
So McNulty is going to fall on his sword? McNulty? The police and the newsroom are going to have essentially the same choice. Do the right thing and catch hell, or sweep the lies under the rug. And there will be plenty of valid reasons to sweep the lies under the rug. Carcetti has had multiple speeches this season emphasizing just this point. That nobody can "make a difference" when they're bounced out of their jobs. So we get intstitutional officers who perhaps started with the intention of making a positive difference caught up in the inertia of suffocating political institutions. That's the message of The Wire in a nutshell.

McNulty is going to be asked to go away quietly. So will Gus. It's the ending that makes the most sense in regards to Simon's vision. In The Wire, only personal redemption is possible. The institutions will just get more and more screwed up.
This is how I see things playing out as well. McNulty's and Templeton's lies will not be exposed; they will be addressed internally, and both McNulty and Gus will be ushered out because of their unwillingness to go with the flow.I'm most curious to see what goes down with Marlo. Will his lawyer figure out the flaws of the investigation and get him out? If he gets out will he get popped?
This brings up one of the biggest questions I have at this point. Marlo basically got Herc fired, so Herc gives Carver the cell phone number knowing full well that Lester is going to "work it to death". So why does he then tell Levy about it? Why not just shut his mouth?
Because he's a pissy little #####. When Carver wouldn't give him his due earlier in the episode, he figured out a way to derail the whole thing.
It's not just that. While I'm sure revenge was the primary motivating factor in Herc giving the # to Carver to begin with, let us not forget that Herc was able to rationalize that what he was doing was good for business -- remember his lawyer boss telling him that it was great that Marlo had a cell phone because he was sure to eventually get busted which would mean a big payoff for the "firm." Herc essentially manufactured the bust just like McNutty manufactured the homeless serial killer.After the bust Herc is ticked off about not being given his due by Carver, but he also learns that "the police dept. is even more screwed up than when he was there." Herc definitely has an axe to grind with the police dept. after getting fired (btw, was it the camera or the minister incident that got Herc fired? Or both?). When you combine the revenge factor with the fact that it's also a great career move for Herc to rat out the police dept. for their unsavory tactics which led to the bust, it would be dumb for Herc not to tell his lawyer boss everything he knows.
He didnt tell Levy that he gave him the number though, did he? I thought he just said they must have gotten a hold of it somehow. :hot:
Of course he didn't tell Levy he gave Carver the #. Now that would be idiotic.Fwiw, do you think Levy really cares where the police got the # from, if he can get the evidence thrown out anyway due to the illegal wiretap? I'm sure Marlo would love to know, but I'm not sure how big a deal it is to Levy as long as he can get Marlo and co. out.

 
Dexter Manley said:
This brings up one of the biggest questions I have at this point. Marlo basically got Herc fired, so Herc gives Carver the cell phone number knowing full well that Lester is going to "work it to death". So why does he then tell Levy about it? Why not just shut his mouth?
He didnt tell Levy that he gave him the number though, did he? I thought he just said they must have gotten a hold of it somehow. :unsure:
Of course he didn't tell Levy he gave Carver the #. Now that would be idiotic.

Fwiw, do you think Levy really cares where the police got the # from, if he can get the evidence thrown out anyway due to the illegal wiretap? I'm sure Marlo would love to know, but I'm not sure how big a deal it is to Levy as long as he can get Marlo and co. out.
I was just responding to this post. Made it sound like Herc owned up to Levy.
 
Dexter Manley said:
the moops said:
For all the people thinking Gus will go down instead of Templeton, there's one big reason that won't happen imo: McNutty. He knows that Templeton is FOS, "trapped in the same lie" as he says in the preview.
So McNulty is going to fall on his sword? McNulty? The police and the newsroom are going to have essentially the same choice. Do the right thing and catch hell, or sweep the lies under the rug. And there will be plenty of valid reasons to sweep the lies under the rug. Carcetti has had multiple speeches this season emphasizing just this point. That nobody can "make a difference" when they're bounced out of their jobs. So we get intstitutional officers who perhaps started with the intention of making a positive difference caught up in the inertia of suffocating political institutions. That's the message of The Wire in a nutshell.

McNulty is going to be asked to go away quietly. So will Gus. It's the ending that makes the most sense in regards to Simon's vision. In The Wire, only personal redemption is possible. The institutions will just get more and more screwed up.
This is how I see things playing out as well. McNulty's and Templeton's lies will not be exposed; they will be addressed internally, and both McNulty and Gus will be ushered out because of their unwillingness to go with the flow.I'm most curious to see what goes down with Marlo. Will his lawyer figure out the flaws of the investigation and get him out? If he gets out will he get popped?
This brings up one of the biggest questions I have at this point. Marlo basically got Herc fired, so Herc gives Carver the cell phone number knowing full well that Lester is going to "work it to death". So why does he then tell Levy about it? Why not just shut his mouth?
Because he's a pissy little #####. When Carver wouldn't give him his due earlier in the episode, he figured out a way to derail the whole thing.
It's not just that. While I'm sure revenge was the primary motivating factor in Herc giving the # to Carver to begin with, let us not forget that Herc was able to rationalize that what he was doing was good for business -- remember his lawyer boss telling him that it was great that Marlo had a cell phone because he was sure to eventually get busted which would mean a big payoff for the "firm." Herc essentially manufactured the bust just like McNutty manufactured the homeless serial killer.After the bust Herc is ticked off about not being given his due by Carver, but he also learns that "the police dept. is even more screwed up than when he was there." Herc definitely has an axe to grind with the police dept. after getting fired (btw, was it the camera or the minister incident that got Herc fired? Or both?). When you combine the revenge factor with the fact that it's also a great career move for Herc to rat out the police dept. for their unsavory tactics which led to the bust, it would be dumb for Herc not to tell his lawyer boss everything he knows.
He didnt tell Levy that he gave him the number though, did he? I thought he just said they must have gotten a hold of it somehow. :shrug:
Of course he didn't tell Levy he gave Carver the #. Now that would be idiotic.Fwiw, do you think Levy really cares where the police got the # from, if he can get the evidence thrown out anyway due to the illegal wiretap? I'm sure Marlo would love to know, but I'm not sure how big a deal it is to Levy as long as he can get Marlo and co. out.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I thought the whole thing was that the wiretap itself was in fact legal? (Lester repeatedly talked about being on the up and up with it). It was only the EQUIPMENT that was missing, and that's where the manufactured serial killings came into play.
 
Maybe I'm missing something, but I thought the whole thing was that the wiretap itself was in fact legal? (Lester repeatedly talked about being on the up and up with it). It was only the EQUIPMENT that was missing, and that's where the manufactured serial killings came into play.
The Wire tap was granted for the cell phone of the alleged Homeless Serial Killer, not Marlo Stanfield.
 
Maybe I'm missing something, but I thought the whole thing was that the wiretap itself was in fact legal? (Lester repeatedly talked about being on the up and up with it). It was only the EQUIPMENT that was missing, and that's where the manufactured serial killings came into play.
:shrug:
 
For all the people thinking Gus will go down instead of Templeton, there's one big reason that won't happen imo: McNutty. He knows that Templeton is FOS, "trapped in the same lie" as he says in the preview.
So McNulty is going to fall on his sword? McNulty? The police and the newsroom are going to have essentially the same choice. Do the right thing and catch hell, or sweep the lies under the rug. And there will be plenty of valid reasons to sweep the lies under the rug. Carcetti has had multiple speeches this season emphasizing just this point. That nobody can "make a difference" when they're bounced out of their jobs. So we get intstitutional officers who perhaps started with the intention of making a positive difference caught up in the inertia of suffocating political institutions. That's the message of The Wire in a nutshell.

McNulty is going to be asked to go away quietly. So will Gus. It's the ending that makes the most sense in regards to Simon's vision. In The Wire, only personal redemption is possible. The institutions will just get more and more screwed up.
This is how I see things playing out as well. McNulty's and Templeton's lies will not be exposed; they will be addressed internally, and both McNulty and Gus will be ushered out because of their unwillingness to go with the flow.I'm most curious to see what goes down with Marlo. Will his lawyer figure out the flaws of the investigation and get him out? If he gets out will he get popped?
This brings up one of the biggest questions I have at this point. Marlo basically got Herc fired, so Herc gives Carver the cell phone number knowing full well that Lester is going to "work it to death". So why does he then tell Levy about it? Why not just shut his mouth?
Because he's a pissy little #####. When Carver wouldn't give him his due earlier in the episode, he figured out a way to derail the whole thing.
It's not just that. While I'm sure revenge was the primary motivating factor in Herc giving the # to Carver to begin with, let us not forget that Herc was able to rationalize that what he was doing was good for business -- remember his lawyer boss telling him that it was great that Marlo had a cell phone because he was sure to eventually get busted which would mean a big payoff for the "firm." Herc essentially manufactured the bust just like McNutty manufactured the homeless serial killer.After the bust Herc is ticked off about not being given his due by Carver, but he also learns that "the police dept. is even more screwed up than when he was there." Herc definitely has an axe to grind with the police dept. after getting fired (btw, was it the camera or the minister incident that got Herc fired? Or both?). When you combine the revenge factor with the fact that it's also a great career move for Herc to rat out the police dept. for their unsavory tactics which led to the bust, it would be dumb for Herc not to tell his lawyer boss everything he knows.
But he never would have told Levy if Carver had given him some credit. I don't believe for a second that it was motivated by anything other than him being snubbed.
 
Maybe I'm missing something, but I thought the whole thing was that the wiretap itself was in fact legal? (Lester repeatedly talked about being on the up and up with it). It was only the EQUIPMENT that was missing, and that's where the manufactured serial killings came into play.
The Wire tap was granted for the cell phone of the alleged Homeless Serial Killer, not Marlo Stanfield.
Right, and that's how they procured the equipment necessary, particularly when they realized it was photos. Now, it's been awhile and I don't have time to rewatch right now, but I was under the impression that they originally had existing warrants open on Marlo, just not the means to follow up on it. Yes, obviously, that cellphone was not explicitly covered, but I thought the actual surveillance was on the up-and-up. There's a reason Lester was so meticulous about the pertinent/non-pertinent stuff, and keeping the logs, and so on.The fact that the funding was acquired under false pretenses doesn't necessarily make the surveillance illegal. Can someone clarify?
 
Ok, I was wrong. I still thought they had existing warrants on him, but i guess not.

When McNulty makes it to work, Landsman tells him that his serial killer called the Baltimore Sun with a message. Surprised, McNulty leaves to meet with the editors and investigate. As Templeton provides his own fictitious details, McNulty realizes he's found his wire tap and eggs the reporter on, trying to lend validity to the story. By the time the conversation ends, even the skeptical Haynes believes the call was legitimate.At police headquarters, McNulty watches Freamon hook up the illegal wiretap on Marlo. McNulty will report day after day of silence from his serial killer, but Lester will monitor Marlo's calls and accredit any leads he catches to a criminal informant.
 
Maybe I'm missing something, but I thought the whole thing was that the wiretap itself was in fact legal? (Lester repeatedly talked about being on the up and up with it). It was only the EQUIPMENT that was missing, and that's where the manufactured serial killings came into play.
The Wire tap was granted for the cell phone of the alleged Homeless Serial Killer, not Marlo Stanfield.
I'm no lawyer, but I'll play one on the internets. I'm guessing Marlo's lawyer can get the wiretap evidence thrown out, since the wiretap was granted for the serial killer, not Marlo. Otherwise the police could get essentially get a wiretap on anyone they wanted by simply getting a wiretap warrant for one individual, and then using another individual's phone # on the wiretap.Also, remember at the end of the last episode how Daniels and his honey are in the evidence room and call the # to the cell phone which rings. I was sort of confused what exactly the purpose of this phone is btw -- was it used to route the "serial killer's" call through?, but once it started ringing Daniels and the lawyer both had that "our case is screwed expression" on their faces.
 
Maybe I'm missing something, but I thought the whole thing was that the wiretap itself was in fact legal? (Lester repeatedly talked about being on the up and up with it). It was only the EQUIPMENT that was missing, and that's where the manufactured serial killings came into play.
The Wire tap was granted for the cell phone of the alleged Homeless Serial Killer, not Marlo Stanfield.
I'm no lawyer, but I'll play one on the internets. I'm guessing Marlo's lawyer can get the wiretap evidence thrown out, since the wiretap was granted for the serial killer, not Marlo. Otherwise the police could get essentially get a wiretap on anyone they wanted by simply getting a wiretap warrant for one individual, and then using another individual's phone # on the wiretap.Also, remember at the end of the last episode how Daniels and his honey are in the evidence room and call the # to the cell phone which rings. I was sort of confused what exactly the purpose of this phone is btw -- was it used to route the "serial killer's" call through?, but once it started ringing Daniels and the lawyer both had that "our case is screwed expression" on their faces.
It was Marlo's phone. The wiretap was supposed to be for the serial killers phone.
 
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Maybe I'm missing something, but I thought the whole thing was that the wiretap itself was in fact legal? (Lester repeatedly talked about being on the up and up with it). It was only the EQUIPMENT that was missing, and that's where the manufactured serial killings came into play.
The Wire tap was granted for the cell phone of the alleged Homeless Serial Killer, not Marlo Stanfield.
I'm no lawyer, but I'll play one on the internets. I'm guessing Marlo's lawyer can get the wiretap evidence thrown out, since the wiretap was granted for the serial killer, not Marlo. Otherwise the police could get essentially get a wiretap on anyone they wanted by simply getting a wiretap warrant for one individual, and then using another individual's phone # on the wiretap.Also, remember at the end of the last episode how Daniels and his honey are in the evidence room and call the # to the cell phone which rings. I was sort of confused what exactly the purpose of this phone is btw -- was it used to route the "serial killer's" call through?, but once it started ringing Daniels and the lawyer both had that "our case is screwed expression" on their faces.
Wow. I'm not watching these careful enough. I guess I need to give it another go and/or stop watching drunk/late at night :thumbdown: I thought that was the phone they seized at the docks, and that it was "good" for the case that it rang.
After Greggs blows the whistle on McNulty's manufactured serial killer, Daniels brings the news to Pearlman. Piecing together the rogue detective's methods, they drive to evidence control to test the serial killer's tapped number against Marlo's seized cell phone. Pearlman dials the number off of a court document, and after a brief moment, the phone rings, confirming their suspicions.
And you're exactly right about not being able to just "swap numbers" on a wiretap, but I thought the Marlo one was authorized under existing warrants they had. I thought that's why they got 2 machines, hooked up on to the legit number on the phone used to call Scott and had that dude watching it with no activity, while Lester was monitoring Marlo's phone.And, maybe I should rewatch it, but I'm pretty sure the phone that rang in evidence control was a flip model, not the T-Mobile Dash that he was using for the pictures.I thought Lester was too smart for that... Now I'm disappointed.
 
cool thread on hbos wire site where peeps are listing their favorite lines

http://boards.hbo.com/topic/Wire-Hbo-Offic...718&start=0
"SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEI##########" -- Clay Davis
Bunk: "Im just a humble M'fer with a big D'k."Lester: "You give yourself too much credit."

Bunk: "You're right. I aint all that humble."

:hifive:
Bunk to McNulty -- "What's a just-rolled-outta-bed-lookin' mother####er like you know about fashion?"
 
As far as the court documents are concerned THERE WAS NO WIRE TAP. The information garnered from the wire they are crediting to a Confedential Informant (like Bubbles). They are saying that the CI gave them information that the re-supply was going down at that building and that Marlo and Co. used photos on cell phones by code to communicate. They are then saying that based on the legal warrant for the re-supply bust and info regarding cell phone use (based on fake CI who was actually the wire and surveillance) that they are able to confiscate and search the cell phones of those arrested incident to the re-supply warrant. After searching and studying the phones, they are/were able to break the code used by Marlo which puts him at the top of the drug conspiracy. Got it?

To clarify - NONE of the information taken directly from the wire itself or the surveillance will be used as evidence in court. By Lester's theory, nothing should get thrown out then based on lack of a proper warrant. The photo/code etc. stuff will only be what they physically take from the seized phones which was based on a "legit" warrant for the re-supply bust. What Levy is going to challenge is the validity of that warrant based on the CI (who turns out actually was a wire). Lester/McNulty are essentially using the same fake CI/Wire #### that Carver and Herc did in Season 2 with the tennis ball.

 
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Maybe I'm missing something, but I thought the whole thing was that the wiretap itself was in fact legal? (Lester repeatedly talked about being on the up and up with it). It was only the EQUIPMENT that was missing, and that's where the manufactured serial killings came into play.
The Wire tap was granted for the cell phone of the alleged Homeless Serial Killer, not Marlo Stanfield.
I'm no lawyer, but I'll play one on the internets. I'm guessing Marlo's lawyer can get the wiretap evidence thrown out, since the wiretap was granted for the serial killer, not Marlo. Otherwise the police could get essentially get a wiretap on anyone they wanted by simply getting a wiretap warrant for one individual, and then using another individual's phone # on the wiretap.Also, remember at the end of the last episode how Daniels and his honey are in the evidence room and call the # to the cell phone which rings. I was sort of confused what exactly the purpose of this phone is btw -- was it used to route the "serial killer's" call through?, but once it started ringing Daniels and the lawyer both had that "our case is screwed expression" on their faces.
Wow. I'm not watching these careful enough. I guess I need to give it another go and/or stop watching drunk/late at night :) I thought that was the phone they seized at the docks, and that it was "good" for the case that it rang.
After Greggs blows the whistle on McNulty's manufactured serial killer, Daniels brings the news to Pearlman. Piecing together the rogue detective's methods, they drive to evidence control to test the serial killer's tapped number against Marlo's seized cell phone. Pearlman dials the number off of a court document, and after a brief moment, the phone rings, confirming their suspicions.
And you're exactly right about not being able to just "swap numbers" on a wiretap, but I thought the Marlo one was authorized under existing warrants they had. I thought that's why they got 2 machines, hooked up on to the legit number on the phone used to call Scott and had that dude watching it with no activity, while Lester was monitoring Marlo's phone.And, maybe I should rewatch it, but I'm pretty sure the phone that rang in evidence control was a flip model, not the T-Mobile Dash that he was using for the pictures.I thought Lester was too smart for that... Now I'm disappointed.
No PC to seize/investigate the phones? :bag: I am not sure - I'd have to re-watch to get the details.The existing warrants (if they were still even open) were for old phones that were no longer being used - remember, they had to get the new phone number from Herc. I don't know if that phone number ever made it onto wiretap papers. While they had an open investigation of Stanfield's crew, I am not sure they still had warrants for a wiretap.I think that is why the charging papers indicated someone was snitching about the clocks phone text message thing, but I am honestly not sure. I was wrapped up in the action and not thinking about the legalities. There is no way they would have put an illegal wiretap down as their source of info/PC for seizing the phones in the charging papers. They probably stated that "on information from a source" they knew about the phones. That was why the cops had to seize the phones before Stanfield's crew could erase them.
 
As far as the court documents are concerned THERE WAS NO WIRE TAP. The information garnered from the wire they are crediting to a Confedential Informant (like Bubbles). They are saying that the CI gave them information that the re-supply was going down at that building and that Marlo and Co. used photos on cell phones by code to communicate. They are then saying that based on the legal warrant for the re-supply bust and info regarding cell phone use (based on fake CI who was actually the wire and surveillance) that they are able to confiscate and search the cell phones of those arrested incident to the re-supply warrant. After searching and studying the phones, they are/were able to break the code used by Marlo which puts him at the top of the drug conspiracy. Got it?To clarify - NONE of the information taken directly from the wire itself or the surveillance will be used as evidence in court. By Lester's theory, nothing should get thrown out then based on lack of a proper warrant. The photo/code etc. stuff will only be what they physically take from the seized phones which was based on a "legit" warrant for the re-supply bust. What Levy is going to challenge is the validity of that warrant based on the CI (who turns out actually was a wire). Lester/McNulty are essentially using the same fake CI/Wire #### that Carver and Herc did in Season 2 with the tennis ball.
Gotcha.The classic "fruit of the forbidden tree" evidence issue.
 
As far as the court documents are concerned THERE WAS NO WIRE TAP. The information garnered from the wire they are crediting to a Confedential Informant (like Bubbles). They are saying that the CI gave them information that the re-supply was going down at that building and that Marlo and Co. used photos on cell phones by code to communicate. They are then saying that based on the legal warrant for the re-supply bust and info regarding cell phone use (based on fake CI who was actually the wire and surveillance) that they are able to confiscate and search the cell phones of those arrested incident to the re-supply warrant. After searching and studying the phones, they are/were able to break the code used by Marlo which puts him at the top of the drug conspiracy. Got it?To clarify - NONE of the information taken directly from the wire itself or the surveillance will be used as evidence in court. By Lester's theory, nothing should get thrown out then based on lack of a proper warrant. The photo/code etc. stuff will only be what they physically take from the seized phones which was based on a "legit" warrant for the re-supply bust. What Levy is going to challenge is the validity of that warrant based on the CI (who turns out actually was a wire). Lester/McNulty are essentially using the same fake CI/Wire #### that Carver and Herc did in Season 2 with the tennis ball.
Gotcha.The classic "fruit of the forbidden tree" evidence issue.
Correct. You just passed 1L Crim.
 
Not sure it is the fruit doctrine they are relying on.

Remember, the charges on Marlo are conspiracy to deal drugs with Cheese. I think it is a simple lack of PC to search the phones that Levy would attack.

 
Not sure it is the fruit doctrine they are relying on.Remember, the charges on Marlo are conspiracy to deal drugs with Cheese. I think it is a simple lack of PC to search the phones that Levy would attack.
Right, but if they find out the CI was in fact an illegal wiretap, then the whole thing goes to #### due to the fruits.
 
Chicken and the Egg.

(of course, lack of PC slices the chicken's head off before he poops out that stinky egg fruit)

Illegal search = illegally obtained evidence = inadmissible evidence. End result is the same - exclusionary rule.

 
Chicken and the Egg. (of course, lack of PC slices the chicken's head off before he poops out that stinky egg fruit)Illegal search = illegally obtained evidence = inadmissible evidence. End result is the same - exclusionary rule.
Are we talking about the same thing? In your post I assumed you had him attacking the search of the seized phone based on the CI being unreliable. I'm talking about them discovering the illegal wiretap which would put the whole thing in the ####ter (the raid, the pullovers from being followed, the phones, all of it except Partlow's murder).
 
For all the people thinking Gus will go down instead of Templeton, there's one big reason that won't happen imo: McNutty. He knows that Templeton is FOS, "trapped in the same lie" as he says in the preview.
So McNulty is going to fall on his sword? McNulty? The police and the newsroom are going to have essentially the same choice. Do the right thing and catch hell, or sweep the lies under the rug. And there will be plenty of valid reasons to sweep the lies under the rug. Carcetti has had multiple speeches this season emphasizing just this point. That nobody can "make a difference" when they're bounced out of their jobs. So we get intstitutional officers who perhaps started with the intention of making a positive difference caught up in the inertia of suffocating political institutions. That's the message of The Wire in a nutshell.McNulty is going to be asked to go away quietly. So will Gus. It's the ending that makes the most sense in regards to Simon's vision. In The Wire, only personal redemption is possible. The institutions will just get more and more screwed up.
This is how I see things playing out as well. McNulty's and Templeton's lies will not be exposed; they will be addressed internally, and both McNulty and Gus will be ushered out because of their unwillingness to go with the flow.I'm most curious to see what goes down with Marlo. Will his lawyer figure out the flaws of the investigation and get him out? If he gets out will he get popped?
I have a bit more cynical view on this.I can see the truth being swept under the rug by both the police and the paper, but McNulty and Gus are going to pay for it. I truly belive that McNulty, as the tragic hero in this show, will fall so far that he takes his own life. I've felt for a while that he was going to kill himself, and after seeing the previews for the last episode where Bunk mentions how McNulty's scam is going to take everyone down, I believe it even more. I think that he takes the fall to save Bunk, Freamon, Kima and the rest....he may have been self-serving the entire series, but he'll make the ultimate sacrifice in the end.I'm not as sure about Gus, because he has the recording of the veteran saying the paper lied in the story; but I think the two weasels who run the paper will do their best to get Gus to go along with the lie. How that plays out, I'm not sure. All I know is that I'm truly sad this show is ending.R.I.P Omar
 
Chicken and the Egg. (of course, lack of PC slices the chicken's head off before he poops out that stinky egg fruit)Illegal search = illegally obtained evidence = inadmissible evidence. End result is the same - exclusionary rule.
Are we talking about the same thing? In your post I assumed you had him attacking the search of the seized phone based on the CI being unreliable. I'm talking about them discovering the illegal wiretap which would put the whole thing in the ####ter (the raid, the pullovers from being followed, the phones, all of it except Partlow's murder).
I see no reason he wouldn't attack both. They are not inconsistent positions.But, FWIW, I have no idea how Levy would find the illegal wiretap. And I don't think one episode of the Wire is sufficient time for Levy to do so.Getting Marlo off for an improper search, OTOH, is more reasonable. That's why I keep saying that the only thing they have on Marlo is his phone as evidence of the conspiracy. get the phone thrown out and they have nothing to link him to Cheese.
 
Chicken and the Egg.

(of course, lack of PC slices the chicken's head off before he poops out that stinky egg fruit)

Illegal search = illegally obtained evidence = inadmissible evidence. End result is the same - exclusionary rule.
Are we talking about the same thing? In your post I assumed you had him attacking the search of the seized phone based on the CI being unreliable. I'm talking about them discovering the illegal wiretap which would put the whole thing in the ####ter (the raid, the pullovers from being followed, the phones, all of it except Partlow's murder).
I see no reason he wouldn't attack both. They are not inconsistent positions.But, FWIW, I have no idea how Levy would find the illegal wiretap. And I don't think one episode of the Wire is sufficient time for Levy to do so.

Getting Marlo off for an improper search, OTOH, is more reasonable. That's why I keep saying that the only thing they have on Marlo is his phone as evidence of the conspiracy. get the phone thrown out and they have nothing to link him to Cheese.
:coffee: Ask them about it?
 

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