The year of the TE..again. (1 Viewer)

[SameSongNDance]

By this time last year, TEs accounted for 41 total TDs. Right now, TEs account for 48.

I remember reading a little stat which stated that TE usage has increased over the past three years, albeit incrementally. The amount was still noticeable (something like 1-2% each year).

Right now Gonzo is on pace for a career year. If you extrapolate his stats you get a 112/1,114/16 stat line. Will this happen? Probably not, but just look at what everyone else is on pace for right now.

Vernon Davis - 69/901/21

Jimmy Graham - 90/917/16

Heath Miller - 80/688/21

Martellus Bennett - 80/986/16

Dennis Pitta - 96/1,002/10

Kyle Rudolph - 69/736/16

Rob Gronkowski - 74/832/10

Brent Celek - 74/1,376/0

Brandon Pettigrew - 85/832/5

Brandon Myers - 80/1,098/0

Owen Daniels - 69/853/5

Jared Cook - 58/874/5

Scott Chandler - 42/602/10



Jermaine Gresham - 64/698/5

Greg Olsen - 74/890/0

So TDs are rather fluky (except when it comes to TEs apparently), so I'd like for everyone to discount the end of the year TD totals. However, look at some of the reception and yardage totals. That's right, there's a dude named Brandon Myers on your WW who's on pace to catch 80 balls for 1000+ yards. A lot of these guys are going to continue to get looks week in a week out. There's no real reason to believe any will see a major dip into production barring injury. I'd like to argue TEs have never been as valuable as they are this year.

*Updated with TE total targets followed by RZ targets.

Pitta - 30/6

Graham - 30/6

Gonzo - 27/4

Grew - 26/3

Celek - 24/3

Olsen - 23/3

Daniels - 22/2

Finley - 21/1

Bennett - 21/6

Miller - 20/8

Gresham - 20/5

Tamme - 19/3

Witten - 19/0

Davis - 19/2

Rudolph - 18/4

Gronkowski - 18/3

Fleener - 16/2

Cook - 16/1

Davis 16/2

Myers- 15/1

Gates - 15/1

Cumberland (will be D.Keller) 15/2

Chandler - 15/2

Tony Moeaki - 13/3

*Updated with the # of plays with 2+ TEs on the field in the past four years.

2008 - 10,274 - 33.01%

2009 - 10,362 - 32.68%

2010 - 10,564 - 33.18%

2011 - 11,285 - 35.17%

 

[Cookiemonster]

Or, with that many of them (and one on the waiver wire) who are on pace for big numbers, maybe there is NO value in TEs this year. If the #12 TE is only a handful of points behind at the end of the year, then the tier gets really big, and there is very little value in TEs.

 

[cracKer]

That's right, there's a dude named Brandon Myers on your WW who's on pace to catch 80 balls for 1000+ yards

Why are they so valuable this year when you can pick up a guy like Myers off waivers to do just as good as the "big 3"? Big numbers across the board doesn't increase value v. tight ends, although it may make them more legit flex options

 

[SameSongNDance]

That's right, there's a dude named Brandon Myers on your WW who's on pace to catch 80 balls for 1000+ yards

Why are they so valuable this year when you can pick up a guy like Myers off waivers to do just as good as the "big 3"? Big numbers across the board doesn't increase value v. tight ends, although it may make them more legit flex options

:whoosh: As a group they hold more value. I didn't exactly say there was a premium at the position. People are hoarding TEs and for good reason. If you're allowed to flex a TE in your league, you have a good argument to do so this year.Myers is also not as good as the big three, you cannot totally discount the mass of TDs the top TEs are scoring weekly.

 

[Run It Up]

I recommend everyone go grab Myers ASAP, I hear concussions arent a big deal. Neither is having one of the least accurate weakest quarterbacks in the NFL.

 

[SameSongNDance]

I recommend everyone go grab Myers ASAP, I hear concussions arent a big deal. Neither is having one of the least accurate weakest quarterbacks in the NFL.

Lol I didn't even advocate picking him up, was just pointing out how even he was on pace for gaudy numbers. Nice job discounting everything else in the post. I can tell all 1,500 of your posts must have been extremely thought provoking.

 

[Run It Up]

I recommend everyone go grab Myers ASAP, I hear concussions arent a big deal. Neither is having one of the least accurate weakest quarterbacks in the NFL.

Lol I didn't even advocate picking him up, was just pointing out how even he was on pace for gaudy numbers. Nice job discounting everything else in the post. I can tell all 1,500 of your posts must have been extremely thought provoking.

I do my best.You paid for reliable production, which is what you will get. Other TEs will be successful, just not reliably so.

 

[SameSongNDance]

I recommend everyone go grab Myers ASAP, I hear concussions arent a big deal. Neither is having one of the least accurate weakest quarterbacks in the NFL.

Lol I didn't even advocate picking him up, was just pointing out how even he was on pace for gaudy numbers. Nice job discounting everything else in the post. I can tell all 1,500 of your posts must have been extremely thought provoking.

I do my best.You paid for reliable production, which is what you will get. Other TEs will be successful, just not reliably so.

You'll need to try a bit harder. How much did you pay for Gonzo, Bennett, Pitta and Miller? You do realize they've been more reliable/consistent than Gronk, Graham, Gates and Hernandez (he gets a pass) up until this point. This thread isn't even about value or production in comparison to ADP, but that comment is just lol. At least read the full OP next time before posting a sarcastic comment in which you take something completely out of context.

 

[Shawn]

You'll need to try a bit harder. How much did you pay for Gonzo, Bennett, Pitta and Miller? You do realize they've been more reliable/consistent than Gronk, Graham, Gates and Hernandez (he gets a pass) up until this point. This thread isn't even about value or production in comparison to ADP, but that comment is just lol. At least read the full OP next time before posting a sarcastic comment in which you take something completely out of context.

I feel like the bolded part could apply at over 45% of the posters on this board...

 

[SameSongNDance]

Has anyone else seen people rostering a tom TEs on their team? In my one league where we can flex a TE, there are two people rostering three TEs.

 

[Quibbler]

That's right, there's a dude named Brandon Myers on your WW who's on pace to catch 80 balls for 1000+ yards

Why are they so valuable this year when you can pick up a guy like Myers off waivers to do just as good as the "big 3"? Big numbers across the board doesn't increase value v. tight ends, although it may make them more legit flex options

:whoosh: As a group they hold more value. I didn't exactly say there was a premium at the position. People are hoarding TEs and for good reason. If you're allowed to flex a TE in your league, you have a good argument to do so this year.

Myers is also not as good as the big three, you cannot totally discount the mass of TDs the top TEs are scoring weekly.

Well those two concepts are pretty closely related in fantasy football. Kickers usually outscore all but the best WRs, but nobody would say they have more value.In leagues where TEs are flex-eligible, the current trend does make TEs more valuable, because the position as a whole is more valuable relative to WR/RB than it was a year ago. So I'm not surprised to hear that people are hoarding TEs in those sorts of leagues.

But in leagues where you can only start 1 TE, an overall increase in TE production compared to other positions doesn't matter. In fact, if anything, the TE renaissance has lowered the value of TEs in FF this year. Why trade for Graham, when you can pick Pitta up off waivers?

 

[Arizona Ron]

Has anyone else seen people rostering a tom TEs on their team? In my one league where we can flex a TE, there are two people rostering three TEs.

Their WRs must suck. It's not hard to find a WR that can put up better numbers than most TEs (In a PPR).

 

[SameSongNDance]

That's right, there's a dude named Brandon Myers on your WW who's on pace to catch 80 balls for 1000+ yards

Why are they so valuable this year when you can pick up a guy like Myers off waivers to do just as good as the "big 3"? Big numbers across the board doesn't increase value v. tight ends, although it may make them more legit flex options

:whoosh: As a group they hold more value. I didn't exactly say there was a premium at the position. People are hoarding TEs and for good reason. If you're allowed to flex a TE in your league, you have a good argument to do so this year.

Myers is also not as good as the big three, you cannot totally discount the mass of TDs the top TEs are scoring weekly.

Well those two concepts are pretty closely related in fantasy football. Kickers usually outscore all but the best WRs, but nobody would say they have more value.In leagues where TEs are flex-eligible, the current trend does make TEs more valuable, because the position as a whole is more valuable relative to WR/RB than it was a year ago. So I'm not surprised to hear that people are hoarding TEs in those sorts of leagues.

But in leagues where you can only start 1 TE, an overall increase in TE production compared to other positions doesn't matter. In fact, if anything, the TE renaissance has lowered the value of TEs in FF this year. Why trade for Graham, when you can pick Pitta up off waivers?

When using the word premium, I usually use it to describe said player having added value in comparison to his counterparts thus me using the term "premium at the position". Those two terms are not closely related, they are actually the inverse of one another. Again, my point is TEs in general, are more valuable in comparison to other positions this year, not each other. Regardless of value, those numbers have to make everyone go , especially if only half of them keep up their TD paces.

 

[SameSongNDance]

To fully put the TD count into perspective, this is how many TDs were scored by TEs by week 3 since 2007..

2012 - 48

2011 - 41

2010 - 30

2009 - 39

2008 - 22

2007 - 29

We're clearly on pace to break records.

 

[Run It Up]

I recommend everyone go grab Myers ASAP, I hear concussions arent a big deal. Neither is having one of the least accurate weakest quarterbacks in the NFL.

Lol I didn't even advocate picking him up, was just pointing out how even he was on pace for gaudy numbers. Nice job discounting everything else in the post. I can tell all 1,500 of your posts must have been extremely thought provoking.

I do my best.You paid for reliable production, which is what you will get. Other TEs will be successful, just not reliably so.

You'll need to try a bit harder. How much did you pay for Gonzo, Bennett, Pitta and Miller? You do realize they've been more reliable/consistent than Gronk, Graham, Gates and Hernandez (he gets a pass) up until this point. This thread isn't even about value or production in comparison to ADP, but that comment is just lol. At least read the full OP next time before posting a sarcastic comment in which you take something completely out of context.

Were 3 games in, youre the one that is extrapolating 3 weeks of production for an entire season not me.Equally as dumb, is extrapolating Gronks first two weeks over an entire season (excluding the week that Gronk was primarily a blocker, which will likely not happen again for the rest of the year) yields:96/1080/16

 

[ponchsox]

Rudolph the red zone reindeer, had a very shiny nose...

 

[SameSongNDance]

I recommend everyone go grab Myers ASAP, I hear concussions arent a big deal. Neither is having one of the least accurate weakest quarterbacks in the NFL.

Lol I didn't even advocate picking him up, was just pointing out how even he was on pace for gaudy numbers. Nice job discounting everything else in the post. I can tell all 1,500 of your posts must have been extremely thought provoking.

I do my best.You paid for reliable production, which is what you will get. Other TEs will be successful, just not reliably so.

You'll need to try a bit harder. How much did you pay for Gonzo, Bennett, Pitta and Miller? You do realize they've been more reliable/consistent than Gronk, Graham, Gates and Hernandez (he gets a pass) up until this point. This thread isn't even about value or production in comparison to ADP, but that comment is just lol. At least read the full OP next time before posting a sarcastic comment in which you take something completely out of context.

Were 3 games in, youre the one that is extrapolating 3 weeks of production for an entire season not me.Equally as dumb, is extrapolating Gronks first two weeks over an entire season (excluding the week that Gronk was primarily a blocker, which will likely not happen again for the rest of the year) yields:96/1080/16

Yes, you can totally ignore the point of this topic and the fact the numerous TEs are on pace for record seasons regardless of ADP. TE production up until this point is historically unprecedented. Nothing will ever be as dumb as your first comment in this thread lol. Again, re-read the OP before posting, it'll help you out in future topics. You may be the epitome of what's currently wrong with the SP.

 

[The General]

Will someone notify Antonio Gates that it is the year of the TE.

 

[bonesman]

Has anyone else seen people rostering a tom TEs on their team? In my one league where we can flex a TE, there are two people rostering three TEs.

There are now 3 teams with 3 TEs in my league after I just traded Cook for Romo. One has Hernandez, the other has Keller, the 3rd took both Gronk and Graham and has added Heath Miller.

 

[SameSongNDance]

Has anyone else seen people rostering a tom TEs on their team? In my one league where we can flex a TE, there are two people rostering three TEs.

Their WRs must suck. It's not hard to find a WR that can put up better numbers than most TEs (In a PPR).

Top 25 in my 1PPR league..Megatron

Green

Amendola

Cruz

Wayne

Gonzo

Harvin

Wallace

Bowe

V.Davis

J. Graham

H. Miller

M. Bennet

Austin

White

Smith

Nicks

Holmes

Thomas

Pitta

A. Johnson

Ogletree

Moore

Hawkins

Celek

Half of those guys were WW fodder at the start of the year or ranked absurdly low. Yeah, it might have been hard to find a WR who would have out performed them up to this point.

 

[Run It Up]

I recommend everyone go grab Myers ASAP, I hear concussions arent a big deal. Neither is having one of the least accurate weakest quarterbacks in the NFL.

Lol I didn't even advocate picking him up, was just pointing out how even he was on pace for gaudy numbers. Nice job discounting everything else in the post. I can tell all 1,500 of your posts must have been extremely thought provoking.

I do my best.You paid for reliable production, which is what you will get. Other TEs will be successful, just not reliably so.

You'll need to try a bit harder. How much did you pay for Gonzo, Bennett, Pitta and Miller? You do realize they've been more reliable/consistent than Gronk, Graham, Gates and Hernandez (he gets a pass) up until this point. This thread isn't even about value or production in comparison to ADP, but that comment is just lol. At least read the full OP next time before posting a sarcastic comment in which you take something completely out of context.

Were 3 games in, youre the one that is extrapolating 3 weeks of production for an entire season not me.Equally as dumb, is extrapolating Gronks first two weeks over an entire season (excluding the week that Gronk was primarily a blocker, which will likely not happen again for the rest of the year) yields:

96/1080/16

Yes, you can totally ignore the point of this topic and the fact the numerous TEs are on pace for record seasons regardless of ADP. TE production up until this point is historically unprecedented. Nothing will ever be as dumb as your first comment in this thread lol. Again, re-read the OP before posting, it'll help you out in future topics. You may be the epitome of what's currently wrong with the SP.

Keep repeating your point as if it gave it any more strength.I thought it was pretty clear from my 2nd post and on that I disagree with you that this is even a trend - let alone one that will continue.

You are arguing that as a group the position is worth less because the disparity between their production does not match their draft position. Im saying that you are basing this off of 3 weeks of production and will be absolutely wrong.

But please, continue to argue your point by repeating the op. The so far reduced production by the top end TEs can easily be explained, the so far increased production by the mid and low tier TEs can also easily be explained - on a case by case basis.

TLR I disagree that this is a trend, let alone one that will continue.

 

[Run It Up]

Has anyone else seen people rostering a tom TEs on their team? In my one league where we can flex a TE, there are two people rostering three TEs.

Their WRs must suck. It's not hard to find a WR that can put up better numbers than most TEs (In a PPR).

Top 25 in my 1PPR league..Megatron

Green

Amendola

Cruz

Wayne

Gonzo

Harvin

Wallace

Bowe

V.Davis

J. Graham

H. Miller

M. Bennet

Austin

White

Smith

Nicks

Holmes

Thomas

Pitta

A. Johnson

Ogletree

Moore

Hawkins

Celek

Half of those guys were WW fodder at the start of the year or ranked absurdly low. Yeah, it might have been hard to find a WR who would have out performed them up to this point.

All of them but Miller and Pitta were drafted in the mid rounds. Celek, Rudolph and Bennett were ranked in the top 15 (Celek in the top 10) as almost guaranteed sleepers. But this list reinforces my point, were 3 games in Nick had a terrible week 1 and didnt play week 3, most of the guys on this list have had one big game. This sample is absurdly small.

 

[SameSongNDance]

I recommend everyone go grab Myers ASAP, I hear concussions arent a big deal. Neither is having one of the least accurate weakest quarterbacks in the NFL.

Lol I didn't even advocate picking him up, was just pointing out how even he was on pace for gaudy numbers. Nice job discounting everything else in the post. I can tell all 1,500 of your posts must have been extremely thought provoking.

I do my best.You paid for reliable production, which is what you will get. Other TEs will be successful, just not reliably so.

You'll need to try a bit harder. How much did you pay for Gonzo, Bennett, Pitta and Miller? You do realize they've been more reliable/consistent than Gronk, Graham, Gates and Hernandez (he gets a pass) up until this point. This thread isn't even about value or production in comparison to ADP, but that comment is just lol. At least read the full OP next time before posting a sarcastic comment in which you take something completely out of context.

Were 3 games in, youre the one that is extrapolating 3 weeks of production for an entire season not me.Equally as dumb, is extrapolating Gronks first two weeks over an entire season (excluding the week that Gronk was primarily a blocker, which will likely not happen again for the rest of the year) yields:

96/1080/16

Yes, you can totally ignore the point of this topic and the fact the numerous TEs are on pace for record seasons regardless of ADP. TE production up until this point is historically unprecedented. Nothing will ever be as dumb as your first comment in this thread lol. Again, re-read the OP before posting, it'll help you out in future topics. You may be the epitome of what's currently wrong with the SP.

Keep repeating your point as if it gave it any more strength.I thought it was pretty clear from my 2nd post and on that I disagree with you that this is even a trend - let alone one that will continue.

You are arguing that as a group the position is worth less because the disparity between their production does not match their draft position. Im saying that you are basing this off of 3 weeks of production and will be absolutely wrong.

But please, continue to argue your point by repeating the op. The so far reduced production by the top end TEs can easily be explained, the so far increased production by the mid and low tier TEs can also easily be explained - on a case by case basis.

TLR I disagree that this is a trend, let alone one that will continue.

So you didn't read the OP or the following posts I take it?I did not argue that as a group they are worth less, I argued that they are worth more, various times. It was essentially everyone else who argued that they were worth less.

I did not once bring up the fact that the top TEs were under producing, you did, it was not the point of this topic. Again, I question as to whether you read anything (you didn't, it's hypothetical).

Simply, the point of this topic was to show that as a whole, the TE position is producing above expectations, which I may have stated three or four times. One again, good job reading, you legit seem confused.

TLR Everything it too long for you to read.

 

[astew90]

Has anyone else seen people rostering a tom TEs on their team? In my one league where we can flex a TE, there are two people rostering three TEs.

In one league with a deep bench, I have four. Bennett, Pitta, Rudolph, and Hernandez in the IR Slot. I am not able to flex a TE, but their value was just so much higher than other WW options.I will likely accept a trade today where I send Bennett and Steve Johnson for Cruz.

 

[Run It Up]

So you didn't read the OP or the following posts I take it?

Please keep repeating this. Do you have any more information, like at all, anything that supports that you think this is a trend or one that will continue? Because if not I'll leave you to argue with no one.

I did not argue that as a group they are worth less, I argued that they are worth more, various times. It was essentially everyone else who argued that they were worth less.

I did not once bring up the fact that the top TEs were under producing, you did, it was not the point of this topic. Again, I question as to whether you read anything (you didn't, it's hypothetical).

Simply, the point of this topic was to show that as a whole, the TE position is producing above expectations, which I may have stated three or four times. One again, good job reading, you legit seem confused.

TLR Everything it too long for you to read.

I brought it up specifically because your extrapolated projections are complete BS and are skewed for more than one reason, I was defending the position that the elite TEs will still outproduce despite your 3 games worth of extrapolated stats...It's pretty clear that the point you are making isn't the point you think you are making and either way I disagree with both.

If everyone is doing better, then the position as a whole is worth less - not more. Which was the biggest argument against drafting a QB in the first round, if the discrepancy between the top tier QBs and a committee of QBs was next to nothing then why take one? If what you are saying is in fact true, that TEs as a position will across the board be doing better than the position becomes inherently worth less because there is no point advantage to owning a top tier TE.

If instead you are arguing that there are a handful of TEs doing better on top of the elite TEs and that because of that people stuck with mid-low/dustin keller TEs are at an even bigger disadvantage because a larger percentage of owners have producing TEs I still disagree that is even a trend.

 

[pollardsvision]

Has anyone else seen people rostering a tom TEs on their team? In my one league where we can flex a TE, there are two people rostering three TEs.

Their WRs must suck. It's not hard to find a WR that can put up better numbers than most TEs (In a PPR).

I do this in my main league where my WR's historically stink. This year, my WR/TE corps is Fitz plus 4 TEs (along with some lottery ticket WRs that I'll never play and will probably drop within a couple of weeks). Thank heavens for those TE's. I love that there are still people out there that still undervalue TEs.So many TEs are 6'5"/250 athletic freaks with LBs covering them. I'll take a solid TE over a WR outside the top 15-20. They often more reliable and usually make much better redzone targets. You can have the scawny waiver fodder WRs that are likely to see 2 targets on any given week.

 

[barker132000]

Im starting pitta AND martellus....both of whom i grabbed off waivers right after week one.

 

[in2win]

A little off topic but I think Jared Cook is about to be mentioned with the likes of these top TE's.....purely gut and on the growth of Locker, Britt, and the offense.

I would keep my eye on him

 

[SameSongNDance]

I recommend everyone go grab Myers ASAP, I hear concussions arent a big deal. Neither is having one of the least accurate weakest quarterbacks in the NFL.

Lol I didn't even advocate picking him up, was just pointing out how even he was on pace for gaudy numbers. Nice job discounting everything else in the post. I can tell all 1,500 of your posts must have been extremely thought provoking.

I do my best.You paid for reliable production, which is what you will get. Other TEs will be successful, just not reliably so.

You'll need to try a bit harder. How much did you pay for Gonzo, Bennett, Pitta and Miller? You do realize they've been more reliable/consistent than Gronk, Graham, Gates and Hernandez (he gets a pass) up until this point. This thread isn't even about value or production in comparison to ADP, but that comment is just lol. At least read the full OP next time before posting a sarcastic comment in which you take something completely out of context.

Were 3 games in, youre the one that is extrapolating 3 weeks of production for an entire season not me.Equally as dumb, is extrapolating Gronks first two weeks over an entire season (excluding the week that Gronk was primarily a blocker, which will likely not happen again for the rest of the year) yields:

96/1080/16

Yes, you can totally ignore the point of this topic and the fact the numerous TEs are on pace for record seasons regardless of ADP. TE production up until this point is historically unprecedented. Nothing will ever be as dumb as your first comment in this thread lol. Again, re-read the OP before posting, it'll help you out in future topics. You may be the epitome of what's currently wrong with the SP.

Keep repeating your point as if it gave it any more strength.I thought it was pretty clear from my 2nd post and on that I disagree with you that this is even a trend - let alone one that will continue.

You are arguing that as a group the position is worth less because the disparity between their production does not match their draft position. Im saying that you are basing this off of 3 weeks of production and will be absolutely wrong.

But please, continue to argue your point by repeating the op. The so far reduced production by the top end TEs can easily be explained, the so far increased production by the mid and low tier TEs can also easily be explained - on a case by case basis.

TLR I disagree that this is a trend, let alone one that will continue.

Okay so aside from all the "you not reading the OP" and putting words in my mouth, please explain to me why this won't continue? Do you have a reason to believe these TE's will stop seeing targets or looks inside the RZ? I'd like for you to name one good reason.I've provided stats from week 3 dating back to 2007. I'm betting it's no coincidence that TEs have also seen an unprecedented amount of targets as well. I'm really curious as to whether or not you'd have one concrete reason as to why this trend won't continue.

 

[Run It Up]

Okay so aside from all the "you not reading the OP" and putting words in my mouth, please explain to me why this won't continue? Do you have a reason to believe these TE's will stop seeing targets or looks inside the RZ? I'd like for you to name one good reason.I've provided stats from week 3 dating back to 2007. I'm betting it's no coincidence that TEs have also seen an unprecedented amount of targets as well. I'm really curious as to whether or not you'd have one concrete reason as to why this trend won't continue.

I asked you to defend your point...To answer your question; to an extent yes. Like I said earlier you have to look at it from a case by case basis for the players. There are a few that mentioned will still likely finish top 5, because someone has to it doesnt necessarily mean they will continue to produce at this level.Graham and Gronk are almost situationally locked into finishing top 2.Davis can certainly keep up the pace, id say he was the best TE in the NFL, if their offense as a whole was better he would be every year, the improvements at WR have certainly helped him but Smith hasnt gotten any better as a QB, as the season progresses he will regress and if Gore stays healthy will start being the recipient of a lot more of the RZ work.Gonzo is old, hes a freak - hes an old freak. 36.5 yrs young, hes gonna slow down as the season progress and his RZ targets are absolutely gonna go down. Jones and White command a lot of looks that coverage hasnt been allowing, Turner is struggling but there is almost no way he doesnt finish with 8-10 TDs.Bennett has been benefiting from terrible coverage, ive been a big defender of Bennett, a lot of people have been selling him short the argument being if he was really this talented than dallas would have found a use for him, my rebuttal is, I dont think dallas is that good at handling their personnel. With Nicks and Bradshaw back Cruz, Nicks and Bradshaw will all command touches similarly to ATL except Bradshaw dominates the Redzone - the best in the league the past 3 years this will all come at the expense of Bennett and none of it will help him, last thursday was best case scenario for him all year.Miller is literally being fed the ball, they have no run game right now, this wont be the case as the year goes on.Pitta is clearly Flacco's favorite midfield target now, I havent looked at his splits but im pretty sure most of his work is coming from between the 20's not inside of them. RZ work is all Rice.Rudolph, has recorded a TD or two in every game Peterson hasnt gotten one, and zero in the game where Peterson got at least one. Its not a coincidence.Celek has had one good game this year, in a struggling offense where their two main targets are injured and the run game and QB are under producsing. He was considered a top 10 this year with a high ceiling, I dont think he even finishes top 10.Myers and everyone else you have never heard of in Oakland has benefited from Palmers poor play and the air and ground games struggling, and is now concussed.Hernandez, injured again (every year he has been in the league). Nothing new here, he will probably miss more than two weeks but still has a good chance of finishing top 5.There thats more than a few specific reasons why I dont think this is a trend. Everything else is par for the course, the top 5 are 15-20 pts ahead of the TE10. 140-170%, seems about right.

 

[SameSongNDance]

Okay so aside from all the "you not reading the OP" and putting words in my mouth, please explain to me why this won't continue? Do you have a reason to believe these TE's will stop seeing targets or looks inside the RZ? I'd like for you to name one good reason.

I've provided stats from week 3 dating back to 2007. I'm betting it's no coincidence that TEs have also seen an unprecedented amount of targets as well. I'm really curious as to whether or not you'd have one concrete reason as to why this trend won't continue.

I asked you to defend your point...To answer your question; to an extent yes.

Like I said earlier you have to look at it from a case by case basis for the players. There are a few that mentioned will still likely finish top 5, because someone has to it doesnt necessarily mean they will continue to produce at this level.

Graham and Gronk are almost situationally locked into finishing top 2.

Agreed.

Davis can certainly keep up the pace, id say he was the best TE in the NFL, if their offense as a whole was better he would be every year, the improvements at WR have certainly helped him but Smith hasnt gotten any better as a QB, as the season progresses he will regress and if Gore stays healthy will start being the recipient of a lot more of the RZ work.



There's no real reason for regression. He wasn't familiar with Harbaugh's system last year and defenses would literally key in on him with no other real weapons in sight. Smith doesn't need to get better, another season reminiscent to 2009 seems probable. What I think is most impressive about Davis (or alarming) is that he has 4 TDs on only 2 RZ targets. He's made the most of his overall targets (19), to say the least.

Gonzo is old, hes a freak - hes an old freak. 36.5 yrs young, hes gonna slow down as the season progress and his RZ targets are absolutely gonna go down. Jones and White command a lot of looks that coverage hasnt been allowing, Turner is struggling but there is almost no way he doesnt finish with 8-10 TDs.

I mentioned earlier that it would be very unlikely that he'd finish the year with his extrapolated numbers. However, Matt Ryan has more than proved that he'll be able to feed three heads in this offense. Ryan's ascension into the elite will go hand in hand with Gonzo's ability to seemingly stop time. Unless defenses start keying on Gonzo (they really can't with Julio/Roddy), Ryan will continue to use him as a safety net. He won't score a TD every week (he has 4 RZ looks on the season compared to Roddy's 6 and Julio's 7, he's been efficient), but his stats will be buoyed by the sheer volume of targets he should receive (116 last year, on pace for 150 this year). In PPR leagues, it will be hard to find a more consistent option this year. Also, the phasing out of Turner began last week as Quizz saw 34 snaps to Turner's 32. Although, Turner will of course poach TDs, the more Quizz we see, the more TDs well be able to shave off of Turner's end of year stats.

Bennett has been benefiting from terrible coverage, ive been a big defender of Bennett, a lot of people have been selling him short the argument being if he was really this talented than dallas would have found a use for him, my rebuttal is, I dont think dallas is that good at handling their personnel. With Nicks and Bradshaw back Cruz, Nicks and Bradshaw will all command touches similarly to ATL except Bradshaw dominates the Redzone - the best in the league the past 3 years this will all come at the expense of Bennett and none of it will help him, last thursday was best case scenario for him all year.

I admittedly never thought much of Bennett. I believed the biggest consequence of the trade to NYG was that Murray would be losing one of the best run blocking TEs in the game. However, if you play fantasy football, you know Eli leans very hard on his TEs. He made Boss/Ballard look extremely relevant and is doing so again with Bennett. My main argument here is that Eli is more than likely going to put up a 4500/30 stat line again (he's on pace for for 5,300/26) this year. Cruz and Nicks cannot be the only beneficiaries here, the third option in this offense is extremely relevant. Bennett also has an absurd target to red zone target ratio (1:3.5) further out pacing Nicks (2) and Cruz (3) and RZ looks.

Miller is literally being fed the ball, they have no run game right now, this wont be the case as the year goes on.



You believe Mendenhall is the answer? I'm sorry but a sub-par RB(s) + a sup-bar OL does not equate to a good run game now or in the near future. Miller currently leads all TEs with 8 RZ targets and I do not see that changing any time soon. Big Ben has admitted to wanting Miller to have a Pro Bowl season and it's clearly showing. He may not continue to average a little less than 3 RZ targets a game but I very much believe he's a bout to have a career year

Pitta is clearly Flacco's favorite midfield target now, I havent looked at his splits but im pretty sure most of his work is coming from between the 20's not inside of them. RZ work is all Rice.

You are wrong with Pitta. He is as blatantly elite as Gronk and Graham with 30 targets on the season (tied for first with Graham) and more importantly with 6 RZ target on the season (tied for second with Graham and Bennett). I see no reason why he shouldn't continue to get work. Teams will continually have to pay attention to the short game with Rice and the long game with T. Smith while Pitta works them over the middle. Couple this with BAL's no huddle offense and this is a recipe for fantasy success.

Rudolph, has recorded a TD or two in every game Peterson hasnt gotten one, and zero in the game where Peterson got at least one. Its not a coincidence.



I can use the same "small sample size" argument here, but I won't, because I do think that's an interesting trend. This dude has all the tools, as he's reminiscent to Gronk of last year, but the jury is still out.

Celek has had one good game this year, in a struggling offense where their two main targets are injured and the run game and QB are under producsing. He was considered a top 10 this year with a high ceiling, I dont think he even finishes top 10.

As proven in the thread I started a little while back pertaining to Celek, it was proven statistically that injuries to both Maclin AND Vick did not negatively or positively effect his production last year, it remained level. There is of course a correlation between Maclin being out and Celek seeing a slight bump in targets, but it is far from the sole factor in this equation. I guarantee you Celek will continue to see targets (24, 5th in targets) as he's too damn athletic to ignore in the passing game (hurdling Ed Reed like a champ). As long as the team in which PHI phases doesn't have a crazy good pass rush, he will continue to be utilized, Maclin or no Maclin.

Myers and everyone else you have never heard of in Oakland has benefited from Palmers poor play and the air and ground games struggling, and is now concussed.

Myers has been the epitome of efficient (100% catch rate). The real reason we are seeing his name pop up is because he's now apart of Greg Knapp's offense, which is notorious for relying on TEs. For this sole fact, he's worth keeping an eye on. There's also a good chance he plays in week 4.

Hernandez, injured again (every year he has been in the league). Nothing new here, he will probably miss more than two weeks but still has a good chance of finishing top 5.

Agreed, top 3 in talent and the epitome of the TE/WR hybrid.

There thats more than a few specific reasons why I dont think this is a trend. Everything else is par for the course, the top 5 are 15-20 pts ahead of the TE10. 140-170%, seems about right.

I'll just play devil's advocate in bold.I'll also be listing all of the TE's total targets and red zone targets on the first page which I'll be referring to here.

Realize that we also didn't mention Olsen, Grew, Finely and some others in which you could make a strong argument for.

 

[Run It Up]

I'll just play devil's advocate in bold.I'll also be listing all of the TE's total targets and red zone targets on the first page which I'll be referring to here.Realize that we also didn't mention Olsen, Grew, Finely and some others in which you could make a strong argument for.

I tried to stick to ones that were immediately successful. I disagree completely with your assessment of Pitta, hes somewhere in between Gronk/Hernandez in style and talent but in an offense that is much worse with a much worse QB. I haven't bought any stock on Flacco because he is a schmuck until he proves to me otherwise, Sanchez/Flacco/Smith theyre all the same quarterback to me.I think Pettigrew and Olsen have huge upside, I play in a lot of two TE leagues and I aimed to back up Gronk with one of them, or draft both if I was unable to land Gronk. Finley I do not, but most of my opinions on Finley can be found in the various Finley threads.Short version, ive owned him since he was a rookie in most leagues, watched him just be the definition of mediocre. I blame Rodgers in most cases and the rest on himself. Hes got butterfingers and hes in a system where the QB does everything in his power to throw the ball to 10 different receivers every game - impossible for Finley to be consistent unless they change their offense.

 

[SameSongNDance]

I'll just play devil's advocate in bold.I'll also be listing all of the TE's total targets and red zone targets on the first page which I'll be referring to here.Realize that we also didn't mention Olsen, Grew, Finely and some others in which you could make a strong argument for.

I tried to stick to ones that were immediately successful. I disagree completely with your assessment of Pitta, hes somewhere in between Gronk/Hernandez in style and talent but in an offense that is much worse with a much worse QB. I haven't bought any stock on Flacco because he is a schmuck until he proves to me otherwise, Sanchez/Flacco/Smith theyre all the same quarterback to me.I think Pettigrew and Olsen have huge upside, I play in a lot of two TE leagues and I aimed to back up Gronk with one of them, or draft both if I was unable to land Gronk. Finley I do not, but most of my opinions on Finley can be found in the various Finley threads.Short version, ive owned him since he was a rookie in most leagues, watched him just be the definition of mediocre. I blame Rodgers in most cases and the rest on himself. Hes got butterfingers and hes in a system where the QB does everything in his power to throw the ball to 10 different receivers every game - impossible for Finley to be consistent unless they change their offense.

Pitta may not posses the elite skill set that Graham and Gronk do, but you acknowledged he got work in between the 20's but wasn't sure of the RZ. Now that you know he's getting just as many looks in the RZ, that doesn't change your mind?I think Grew has zero upside. He has no after the catch ability and develops a case of the dropsies whenever he enters the RZ. I like him in PPR to an extent but he seems underwhelming to me.I love Olsen, people are going to sleep on him because of what happened in week 2.I've never owned Finley, for good reason, but I thought he was worth mentioning.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Has anyone else seen people rostering a tom TEs on their team? In my one league where we can flex a TE, there are two people rostering three TEs.

I'm carrying 3 tes in a 10 team with flex. (Graham/pitta/ miller) playing pitta/miller at flex depending on matchups. They gt more targets/pts by about 1/3 than comparable wrs on the ww.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Has anyone else seen people rostering a tom TEs on their team? In my one league where we can flex a TE, there are two people rostering three TEs.

Their WRs must suck. It's not hard to find a WR that can put up better numbers than most TEs (In a PPR).

Disagree strongly. Plus with size/matchups they get twice as many red zone looks than any wr on the ww. Ppr these days tilts in their favor, ergo the point of this thread.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

I recommend everyone go grab Myers ASAP, I hear concussions arent a big deal. Neither is having one of the least accurate weakest quarterbacks in the NFL.

Lol I didn't even advocate picking him up, was just pointing out how even he was on pace for gaudy numbers. Nice job discounting everything else in the post. I can tell all 1,500 of your posts must have been extremely thought provoking.

I do my best.You paid for reliable production, which is what you will get. Other TEs will be successful, just not reliably so.

You'll need to try a bit harder. How much did you pay for Gonzo, Bennett, Pitta and Miller? You do realize they've been more reliable/consistent than Gronk, Graham, Gates and Hernandez (he gets a pass) up until this point. This thread isn't even about value or production in comparison to ADP, but that comment is just lol. At least read the full OP next time before posting a sarcastic comment in which you take something completely out of context.

Were 3 games in, youre the one that is extrapolating 3 weeks of production for an entire season not me.Equally as dumb, is extrapolating Gronks first two weeks over an entire season (excluding the week that Gronk was primarily a blocker, which will likely not happen again for the rest of the year) yields:

96/1080/16

Um no. With Hernandez out and the OL weaker than ever methinks gronk is used a lot more as a blocker this year.

 

[SameSongNDance]

For the moment, I'm actually carrying 4 TEs (Daniels, Celek, Olsen, Gresham) in one league after some WW shenanigans last night. I'm going to end up dropping one (Gresham probably) to cuff Goodson, but I just found it kind of funny. Also, of course, we can flex a TE in this league.

 

[Run It Up]

Um no. With Hernandez out and the OL weaker than ever methinks gronk is used a lot more as a blocker this year.

The only difference between this year and the prior two years where Hernandez has missed time (of which Gronk only had one game similar to this one, which also happened to be against a good pass rush) is there Oline is struggling, which myself and many others believe this is temporary as the season progresses the Oline will be much better. Waters not coming back hurts but they can still handle it.Between all my teams, most of which are in start two TE leagues im rostering: Gronk, Pitta, Olsen, Pettigrew, Tamme, Gresham.

 

[SameSongNDance]

Um no. With Hernandez out and the OL weaker than ever methinks gronk is used a lot more as a blocker this year.

The only difference between this year and the prior two years where Hernandez has missed time (of which Gronk only had one game similar to this one, which also happened to be against a good pass rush) is there Oline is struggling, which myself and many others believe this is temporary as the season progresses the Oline will be much better. Waters not coming back hurts but they can still handle it.Between all my teams, most of which are in start two TE leagues im rostering: Gronk, Pitta, Olsen, Pettigrew, Tamme, Gresham.

Well that and McDaniels absolutely hates TEs.

 

[Run It Up]

Hasn't showed the least bit so far, but play calling so far this year has been pretty terrible.

 

[Chazzhawk]

Tight ends are going to be a major factor until defenses figure out a way to cover a skilled player that is too big for corners and too fast for linebackers. It is almost impossible to just have a safety cover them because that leaves your corners on an island, and there are far too many good receivers and not enough Champ Baileys and Revis types, especially with the new rules in the past few years.

 

[Quibbler]

That's right, there's a dude named Brandon Myers on your WW who's on pace to catch 80 balls for 1000+ yards

Why are they so valuable this year when you can pick up a guy like Myers off waivers to do just as good as the "big 3"? Big numbers across the board doesn't increase value v. tight ends, although it may make them more legit flex options

:whoosh: As a group they hold more value. I didn't exactly say there was a premium at the position. People are hoarding TEs and for good reason. If you're allowed to flex a TE in your league, you have a good argument to do so this year.

Myers is also not as good as the big three, you cannot totally discount the mass of TDs the top TEs are scoring weekly.

Well those two concepts are pretty closely related in fantasy football. Kickers usually outscore all but the best WRs, but nobody would say they have more value.In leagues where TEs are flex-eligible, the current trend does make TEs more valuable, because the position as a whole is more valuable relative to WR/RB than it was a year ago. So I'm not surprised to hear that people are hoarding TEs in those sorts of leagues.

But in leagues where you can only start 1 TE, an overall increase in TE production compared to other positions doesn't matter. In fact, if anything, the TE renaissance has lowered the value of TEs in FF this year. Why trade for Graham, when you can pick Pitta up off waivers?

When using the word premium, I usually use it to describe said player having added value in comparison to his counterparts thus me using the term "premium at the position". Those two terms are not closely related, they are actually the inverse of one another. Again, my point is TEs in general, are more valuable in comparison to other positions this year, not each other. Regardless of value, those numbers have to make everyone go , especially if only half of them keep up their TD paces.

An inverse relationship is what I meant. I thought the point about kickers made that clear, but maybe not.The point that I and a lot of other people are making is that, if the position as a whole is valuable because of the sort of trend you're highlighting (where TE scoring is up because many players at the position are on pace for 1000yd seasons, as opposed to the just top performers doing exceptionally well), then that makes the individual players at that position less, rather than more valuable.(*) It's exactly the same argument you're making in the thread about why taking a QB in the 1st round was a mistake. If there are guys on the waiver wire who can give you close to the same production as your starter, you're starter isn't worth much.

Last year was the year of the TE in fantasy football, because not only did the TE position as a whole score a ton of points, but there was a very clear elite tier (Gronk and Graham), and a fairly clear 2nd tier (Hernandez, Gates, etc.). If the projected stats you posted in the OP are at all close to what really happens this year, then that's not going to be the case again. Instead we'll have a pretty large top-tier with an even bigger 2nd-tier close behind it.

My guess is that given how effective these new athletic TEs were in real football last year, teams are going to be scrambling to copy what NE and the Saints did. Which will make TEs more important in reality, but will kill their value in fantasy football. If every team starts running 2 TE sets with huge former basketball players, then there are going to be a lot of guys putting up good numbers in the TE spot.

(*)In leagues where you can flex a TE, a general increase in scoring at the position does matter, of course.

 

[SameSongNDance]

That's right, there's a dude named Brandon Myers on your WW who's on pace to catch 80 balls for 1000+ yards

Why are they so valuable this year when you can pick up a guy like Myers off waivers to do just as good as the "big 3"? Big numbers across the board doesn't increase value v. tight ends, although it may make them more legit flex options

:whoosh: As a group they hold more value. I didn't exactly say there was a premium at the position. People are hoarding TEs and for good reason. If you're allowed to flex a TE in your league, you have a good argument to do so this year.

Myers is also not as good as the big three, you cannot totally discount the mass of TDs the top TEs are scoring weekly.

Well those two concepts are pretty closely related in fantasy football. Kickers usually outscore all but the best WRs, but nobody would say they have more value.In leagues where TEs are flex-eligible, the current trend does make TEs more valuable, because the position as a whole is more valuable relative to WR/RB than it was a year ago. So I'm not surprised to hear that people are hoarding TEs in those sorts of leagues.

But in leagues where you can only start 1 TE, an overall increase in TE production compared to other positions doesn't matter. In fact, if anything, the TE renaissance has lowered the value of TEs in FF this year. Why trade for Graham, when you can pick Pitta up off waivers?

When using the word premium, I usually use it to describe said player having added value in comparison to his counterparts thus me using the term "premium at the position". Those two terms are not closely related, they are actually the inverse of one another. Again, my point is TEs in general, are more valuable in comparison to other positions this year, not each other. Regardless of value, those numbers have to make everyone go , especially if only half of them keep up their TD paces.

An inverse relationship is what I meant. I thought the point about kickers made that clear, but maybe not.The point that I and a lot of other people are making is that, if the position as a whole is valuable because of the sort of trend you're highlighting (where TE scoring is up because many players at the position are on pace for 1000yd seasons, as opposed to the just top performers doing exceptionally well), then that makes the individual players at that position less, rather than more valuable.(*) It's exactly the same argument you're making in the thread about why taking a QB in the 1st round was a mistake. If there are guys on the waiver wire who can give you close to the same production as your starter, you're starter isn't worth much.

Last year was the year of the TE in fantasy football, because not only did the TE position as a whole score a ton of points, but there was a very clear elite tier (Gronk and Graham), and a fairly clear 2nd tier (Hernandez, Gates, etc.). If the projected stats you posted in the OP are at all close to what really happens this year, then that's not going to be the case again. Instead we'll have a pretty large top-tier with an even bigger 2nd-tier close behind it.

My guess is that given how effective these new athletic TEs were in real football last year, teams are going to be scrambling to copy what NE and the Saints did. Which will make TEs more important in reality, but will kill their value in fantasy football. If every team starts running 2 TE sets with huge former basketball players, then there are going to be a lot of guys putting up good numbers in the TE spot.

(*)In leagues where you can flex a TE, a general increase in scoring at the position does matter, of course.

I fully understand what you're saying and I agree. Within the position, the disparity between TE1 and TE12 is probably much smaller than it was last year. This isn't the fact I was trying to get at in the OP though. In hindsight, I shouldn't have used the word value in my OP, because if you're not specific is can be a bit confusing. As for your last point, the NFL is a copy-cat league after all. If one team sees another team having success with running numerous two TE sets, they'll copy, which started last year. I updated the OP with two plus TE set utilization over the past four years. I think the trend will only increase.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Okay so aside from all the "you not reading the OP" and putting words in my mouth, please explain to me why this won't continue? Do you have a reason to believe these TE's will stop seeing targets or looks inside the RZ? I'd like for you to name one good reason.I've provided stats from week 3 dating back to 2007. I'm betting it's no coincidence that TEs have also seen an unprecedented amount of targets as well. I'm really curious as to whether or not you'd have one concrete reason as to why this trend won't continue.

I asked you to defend your point...To answer your question; to an extent yes. Like I said earlier you have to look at it from a case by case basis for the players. There are a few that mentioned will still likely finish top 5, because someone has to it doesnt necessarily mean they will continue to produce at this level.Graham and Gronk are almost situationally locked into finishing top 2.Davis can certainly keep up the pace, id say he was the best TE in the NFL, if their offense as a whole was better he would be every year, the improvements at WR have certainly helped him but Smith hasnt gotten any better as a QB, as the season progresses he will regress and if Gore stays healthy will start being the recipient of a lot more of the RZ work.Gonzo is old, hes a freak - hes an old freak. 36.5 yrs young, hes gonna slow down as the season progress and his RZ targets are absolutely gonna go down. Jones and White command a lot of looks that coverage hasnt been allowing, Turner is struggling but there is almost no way he doesnt finish with 8-10 TDs.Bennett has been benefiting from terrible coverage, ive been a big defender of Bennett, a lot of people have been selling him short the argument being if he was really this talented than dallas would have found a use for him, my rebuttal is, I dont think dallas is that good at handling their personnel. With Nicks and Bradshaw back Cruz, Nicks and Bradshaw will all command touches similarly to ATL except Bradshaw dominates the Redzone - the best in the league the past 3 years this will all come at the expense of Bennett and none of it will help him, last thursday was best case scenario for him all year.Miller is literally being fed the ball, they have no run game right now, this wont be the case as the year goes on.Pitta is clearly Flacco's favorite midfield target now, I havent looked at his splits but im pretty sure most of his work is coming from between the 20's not inside of them. RZ work is all Rice.Rudolph, has recorded a TD or two in every game Peterson hasnt gotten one, and zero in the game where Peterson got at least one. Its not a coincidence.Celek has had one good game this year, in a struggling offense where their two main targets are injured and the run game and QB are under producsing. He was considered a top 10 this year with a high ceiling, I dont think he even finishes top 10.Myers and everyone else you have never heard of in Oakland has benefited from Palmers poor play and the air and ground games struggling, and is now concussed.Hernandez, injured again (every year he has been in the league). Nothing new here, he will probably miss more than two weeks but still has a good chance of finishing top 5.There thats more than a few specific reasons why I dont think this is a trend. Everything else is par for the course, the top 5 are 15-20 pts ahead of the TE10. 140-170%, seems about right.

The mental gymnastics of a frustrated gronkowski owner.Newsflash: gronk ain't situationally locked into top 5 anymore...

 

[SameSongNDance]

In the "Was drafting a QB in the first round a mistake?" thread I averaged out QB1-QB6 against QB7-QB12 to figure out the disparity between possible starters. I'll do the same with TEs here to see if there was truly very little in which TE you're starting weekly. I'll stick to PPG this time though.

*1PPR

2007

TE1-TE6 = 13.98

TE7-TE12 = 9.43

Difference = 4.55 PPG

2008

TE1-TE6 = 12.45

TE7-TE12 = 9.25

Difference = 3.2 PPG

2009

TE1-TE6 = 15.01

TE7-TE12 = 11.83

Difference = 3.18

2010

TE1-TE6 = 14.06

TE7-TE12 = 10.61

Difference = 3.45 PPG

2011

TE1-TE6 = 15.83

TE7-TE12 = 11.5

Difference = 4.33 PPG

2012 (through week 3)

TE1-TE6 = 17.71 (holy ####)

TE7-TE12 = 13.03



Difference = 4.68 PPG

So far this year, the disparity between the top half of starters vs. the bottom half of starters is even larger than last year. This means there indeed is a premium at the position at the moment.

 

[IHEARTFF]

Yeah, but who are TE 1-6?

 

[Biabreakable]

Yeah, but who are TE 1-6?

Right now I think EOY will look something like this-Jimmy GrahamVernon DavisRob GronkowskiTony GonzalezKyle Rudolph*Jermichael Finleyof course there are 6 or more guys I could also see making this list such as Pitta, Pettigrew, Bennett, Miller, Celek, Gresham, Daniels, Witten and Cook. I just don't like these quite as much as the 6 above.Good topic and thanks for the research put into it so far. I was seeing something similar holistically, nice to see that quantified. * sorry couldn't help myself. Do think it is possible but there is a lot of competition right now.

 

[Run It Up]

The mental gymnastics of a frustrated gronkowski owner.

Newsflash: gronk ain't situationally locked into top 5 anymore...

Sorry you drafted Hernandez in the third round because it was the shark move. But why exactly would I be frustrated? Also you're wrong, there is literally no way outside of Gronk or Brady missing time that he doesnt finish top 2.