There's nothing honorable and moral about getting a college degree (1 Viewer)

[IvanKaramazov]

At Stanford, this is a new degree in the Civil Engineering area that combines rigorous mathematical, physical and creative problem solving. As someone who has had coursework in engineering and fine arts, I can see where gives you about as broad a platform for future work as you might get in a BS program. That makes this undergraduate degree not all that different from History. After this degree, if he wasn't a football stud, he would go onto grad school in any number of disciplines.

Would you say that most people in engineering programs are studying engineering for its own sake, or because they want to become engineers?

I think the point that rabidfireweasel is trying to make is that the degree is more flexible with what you can do with it than, say, diesel engine repair. I'm an electrical engineer - in my 10+ years in the field, I have done work in the mechanical, civil, computer, and electrical engineering fields. The math is mostly the same ... I have worked with mechanical engineers that write code and program controllers. If you get a degree in engineering, regardless of specialization, you can probably step into most engineering positions without much trouble. This is opposed to someone who goes to a vocational/trade/technical school (vo-tech) to learn one skill, such as engine repair or hairstyling. As for why I chose engineering? Well I love history, philosophy, English, and engineering/math ... and a degree in the first three isn't going to get me too far , honestly, compared to engineering.

Exactly. Only this degree gives you few immediate job opportunities. It is the techie version of a History or a Poly Science degree. I would see this degree as and undergraduate platform based upon mathematics, spatial design, and creative problem solving (from the required fine arts piece). You have to go to graduate school to get a job in engineering or architecture, but you could choose either. You could also fairly easily move into product design, an MBA program, law school (especially seeking a law position for a tech company), etc. To me, it is the opposite of a vocational degree. It is the techie version of liberal arts degree. There is no specific job awaiting you, but a great amount of possibilities in a variety of fields.

Okay, I get what you're saying here, with the emphasis on "techie." Fair enough.

 

[candymanvandyfan]

You get a degree for one reason. To get a career.

Couldn't disagree more with this assertion.

 

[David Dodds]

Wow some of you don't seem like you had much fun in college. I had all my classes completed, but because I was an RA (and had free housing and food), I stayed in college another semester. Yes I did some job interviewing that semester, but had no classes to attend. This really is the greatest time in the world. I was on three broom hockey teams, was a student senator and earned honors as the Resident Advisor of the year (I should hope so, I had nothing else to do).

I suppose the responsible thing would have been to seek employment without goofing off for this extra semester, but unless you HAVE to do that, who would choose it?

He is staying to get lots of tang, hang with the fellas, and earn a degree that he has worked hard for.

 

[CalBear]

Wow some of you don't seem like you had much fun in college. I had all my classes completed, but because I was an RA (and had free housing and food), I stayed in college another semester. Yes I did some job interviewing that semester, but had no classes to attend. This really is the greatest time in the world. I was on three broom hockey teams, was a student senator and earned honors as the Resident Advisor of the year (I should hope so, I had nothing else to do). I suppose the responsible thing would have been to seek employment without goofing off for this extra semester, but unless you HAVE to do that, who would choose it?He is staying to get lots of tang, hang with the fellas, and earn a degree that he has worked hard for.

Big difference; by not working that semester, you weren't risking your future employment. Without Harbaugh, his o-line, and his two leading receivers, I will guarantee that Luck will have lower completion percentage, more INTs, and fewer wins in 2011 than 2010. He probably won't fall out of the first round, but he's likely to fall out of the first overall pick, even if he doesn't get injured; this is the Matt Leinart situation, not the Peyton Manning situation.

 

[thayman]

Wow some of you don't seem like you had much fun in college. I had all my classes completed, but because I was an RA (and had free housing and food), I stayed in college another semester. Yes I did some job interviewing that semester, but had no classes to attend. This really is the greatest time in the world. I was on three broom hockey teams, was a student senator and earned honors as the Resident Advisor of the year (I should hope so, I had nothing else to do). I suppose the responsible thing would have been to seek employment without goofing off for this extra semester, but unless you HAVE to do that, who would choose it?He is staying to get lots of tang, hang with the fellas, and earn a degree that he has worked hard for.

If someone would have offered you $50 million to forgo that last semester would you have done it?

 

[David Dodds]

I have a feeling a lot of this has to do with these things:

1. He doesn't want to play for the Carolina Panthers. Unknown coach/scheme situation.

2. An NFL season is a huge uncertainty right now. Are we even certain how much rookies will get paid? Will there be a draft?

3. He likely either has a girlfriend or lots of action.

4. He likes college.

 

[cobalt_27]

Wow some of you don't seem like you had much fun in college. I had all my classes completed, but because I was an RA (and had free housing and food), I stayed in college another semester. Yes I did some job interviewing that semester, but had no classes to attend. This really is the greatest time in the world. I was on three broom hockey teams, was a student senator and earned honors as the Resident Advisor of the year (I should hope so, I had nothing else to do). I suppose the responsible thing would have been to seek employment without goofing off for this extra semester, but unless you HAVE to do that, who would choose it?He is staying to get lots of tang, hang with the fellas, and earn a degree that he has worked hard for.

If someone would have offered you $50 million to forgo that last semester would you have done it?

Sam Bradford, Peyton Manning, and countless others have made similar types of decisions. Not sure what's unique about this as it applies to Luck.

 

[fatness]

Wow some of you don't seem like you had much fun in college. I had all my classes completed, but because I was an RA (and had free housing and food), I stayed in college another semester. Yes I did some job interviewing that semester, but had no classes to attend. This really is the greatest time in the world. I was on three broom hockey teams, was a student senator and earned honors as the Resident Advisor of the year (I should hope so, I had nothing else to do). I suppose the responsible thing would have been to seek employment without goofing off for this extra semester, but unless you HAVE to do that, who would choose it?He is staying to get lots of tang, hang with the fellas, and earn a degree that he has worked hard for.

Big difference; by not working that semester, you weren't risking your future employment. Without Harbaugh, his o-line, and his two leading receivers, I will guarantee that Luck will have lower completion percentage, more INTs, and fewer wins in 2011 than 2010. He probably won't fall out of the first round, but he's likely to fall out of the first overall pick, even if he doesn't get injured; this is the Matt Leinart situation, not the Peyton Manning situation.

He gets his degree, and he'll get drafted by the NFL, so he's not risking future employment. In fact, with the degree, he's widening his opportunity for future employment.

 

[daveR]

Perhaps the "honorable" part isn't the degree itself but finishing his commitment to the school, program and his team mates.

And, perhaps, parents or other people. Sounds like he made a commitment and will fulfill it.

 

[Ksquared]

Ivan

I am not sure where to even respond on your obviously bias opinion about the importance of a liberal arts degree (you do it because you love it and make you a better person garbage).

I think I have a unique position to reference from: BA in History in 85 and became a high school teacher - got tired of baby sitting high schoolers and went back to school and got a BS in Civil Engineering in the mid 90's. I find your generalizations of the two fields so classic college professor elitist that is just mind boggling. Philosophy, History, Sociology, etc are interesting fields that do help you grow as a person and great to gain knowledge, but most of the students I knew were very disappointed that they spend $50,000 (early 80's costs) and discovered there was not a lot of demand for them in the job world. For everyone that states you should not go to college to get a profession also is amazing. You learn a lot more than the subject you are studying about yourself and life in pursuit of a degree. But spending $100,000 plus today so you can have a broader knowledge of trivial information that no one (except colleges) find valuable enough to pay for (or have very few opportunities) is not a wise investment IMO. Secondly, you put these liberal arts degrees as superior to "vocational" degrees. Amazing, lets have everyone do something that society has not been able to find a demand enough for this "skill" to provide a decent number of jobs or pay.

On the other hand, since the economic downturn has hit and new Engineering jobs have not been readily available, students that have BS in Engineering are getting hired outside of their field for good quality jobs. Why? Because to get that BS in Engineering you have demonstrated you can deal with difficult and challenging academics, handle learning in a wide range of fields, more than many other majors developed a process to learn under intense time restraints, but most of all you learn to become a problem solver. Basically that is what the basis of all Engineering degrees is applying God's/nature's laws to solve problems. You can apply these learning and problem solving skills to any field.

 

[cobalt_27]

I think the main point Ivan is trying to make is, if you aren't going to be an elitist academic like himself, and appreciate all of the thoughtfulness, philosophical grounding, and development of self like he has, then you might as well become a diesel mechanic.

That, and high profile schools are no better than the ones he attended or teaches at. In fact, given Stanford's high graduation rate, it clearly is a simple institution to complete.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

While I agree with the underlying notion that Luck is a fool for not going pro, there is absolutely a large amount of honor in getting any degree, especially a college degree from a solid academic institution like stanford.

Sorry if that #1 Dynasty pick ain't gonna be so Lucky for you....

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I think the main point Ivan is trying to make is, if you aren't going to be an elitist academic like himself, and appreciate all of the thoughtfulness, philosophical grounding, and development of self like he has, then you might as well become a diesel mechanic.That, and high profile schools are no better than the ones he attended or teaches at. In fact, given Stanford's high graduation rate, it clearly is a simple institution to complete.

Just as a quick FYI, I'll openly cop to being an elitist in terms of what it means to be "well-educated." As a general principle, I don't consider technical/professional/vocational degrees to be the equivalent of liberal arts degrees. The former usually have more economic value, but the latter are more valuable on a personal level IMO. Regardless, you're over-personalizing this. You don't know what school I attended as an undergrad, and I'll freely admit that my grad school and employer compare very unfavorably to Stanford both overall and in my specific discipline.

 

[Knight who says Ni]

I think the main point Ivan is trying to make is, if you aren't going to be an elitist academic like himself, and appreciate all of the thoughtfulness, philosophical grounding, and development of self like he has, then you might as well become a diesel mechanic.

That, and high profile schools are no better than the ones he attended or teaches at. In fact, given Stanford's high graduation rate, it clearly is a simple institution to complete.

Just as a quick FYI, I'll openly cop to being an elitist in terms of what it means to be "well-educated." As a general principle, I don't consider technical/professional/vocational degrees to be the equivalent of liberal arts degrees. The former usually have more economic value, but the latter are more valuable on a personal level IMO.Regardless, you're over-personalizing this. You don't know what school I attended as an undergrad, and I'll freely admit that my grad school and employer compare very unfavorably to Stanford both overall and in my specific discipline.

Re: the bolded part, I think that is debatable - I mean, if you love math and science, then learning about physics, chemistry, statics, thermodynamics, etc. can certainly help you grow personally. As for me, I decided to go with an engineering degree, but that hasn't stopped me from being an avid history buff and reading voraciously. In fact, I bet I could go toe-to-toe with any history grad on some topics like the ancient Romans, Greeks, Crusades etc. Getting a technical degree doesn't mean you stop growing on a personal level

 

[cobalt_27]

I think the main point Ivan is trying to make is, if you aren't going to be an elitist academic like himself, and appreciate all of the thoughtfulness, philosophical grounding, and development of self like he has, then you might as well become a diesel mechanic.

That, and high profile schools are no better than the ones he attended or teaches at. In fact, given Stanford's high graduation rate, it clearly is a simple institution to complete.

Just as a quick FYI, I'll openly cop to being an elitist in terms of what it means to be "well-educated." As a general principle, I don't consider technical/professional/vocational degrees to be the equivalent of liberal arts degrees. The former usually have more economic value, but the latter are more valuable on a personal level IMO.Regardless, you're over-personalizing this. You don't know what school I attended as an undergrad, and I'll freely admit that my grad school and employer compare very unfavorably to Stanford both overall and in my specific discipline.

Re: the bolded part, I think that is debatable - I mean, if you love math and science, then learning about physics, chemistry, statics, thermodynamics, etc. can certainly help you grow personally. As for me, I decided to go with an engineering degree, but that hasn't stopped me from being an avid history buff and reading voraciously. In fact, I bet I could go toe-to-toe with any history grad on some topics like the ancient Romans, Greeks, Crusades etc. Getting a technical degree doesn't mean you stop growing on a personal level

It takes a very narrow (and elitist) mind to think that other people should find fulfillment only from those topics (e.g., philosophy) that he finds interesting.

 

[Ksquared]

Exactly my point. I find analyzing history and analyzing civil engineering situations quite fulfilling. I still love early American History and anything to with ancient Rome, Greece, or Egypt. I definitely believe we as a country do not do enough to value "knowledge" enough, but "dismissing" vocational degrees as nothing more than learning for work is classic college professor elitism.

 

[nxmehta]

It's threads like this that explain why America is going to be left in the dust by countries that actually value education (India, China).

Yeah OP, and the only reason I went to Kindergarten was BECAUSE I WANT A JOB! THERE IS NO OTHER VALID REASON!

 

[thayman]

Wow some of you don't seem like you had much fun in college. I had all my classes completed, but because I was an RA (and had free housing and food), I stayed in college another semester. Yes I did some job interviewing that semester, but had no classes to attend. This really is the greatest time in the world. I was on three broom hockey teams, was a student senator and earned honors as the Resident Advisor of the year (I should hope so, I had nothing else to do). I suppose the responsible thing would have been to seek employment without goofing off for this extra semester, but unless you HAVE to do that, who would choose it?He is staying to get lots of tang, hang with the fellas, and earn a degree that he has worked hard for.

If someone would have offered you $50 million to forgo that last semester would you have done it?

Sam Bradford, Peyton Manning, and countless others have made similar types of decisions. Not sure what's unique about this as it applies to Luck.

Others have made the same decision and it hasn't worked out. The only question that I have, and I'm sure Luck has asked himself this, is if you want to be a QB in the NFL how does it get better thatn the #1 pick.

 

[Insein]

It's threads like this that explain why America is going to be left in the dust by countries that actually value education (India, China).Yeah OP, and the only reason I went to Kindergarten was BECAUSE I WANT A JOB! THERE IS NO OTHER VALID REASON!

What a pointless exageration. People are ignoring the fact that College has become a business more than an accomplishment. You need a degree to get a job. Its required for most fields. Doesn't matter if the person with the degree is as dumb as a bag of rocks and a high school grad has more experience in a field. That piece of paper is what gets you in the door. You pay a college to get you that piece of paper. Sure people have loads of fun while at college. You may even learn a thing or two. But the whole point of going is because you have to if you want a job in a higher paying field. Is that worthy of praise or accolades?

 

[switz]

You'll see all kinds of sports writers say things about Andrew Luck (and any other players) who decide to stay in school. They'll make them out to be honorable and moral, and that they understand the "value of a college degree".Horsecrap.You get a degree for one reason. To get a career.

Or, as is true for most recent graduates, to pay off a school loan while working at Starbucks as a barista.

 

[cobalt_27]

Wow some of you don't seem like you had much fun in college. I had all my classes completed, but because I was an RA (and had free housing and food), I stayed in college another semester. Yes I did some job interviewing that semester, but had no classes to attend. This really is the greatest time in the world. I was on three broom hockey teams, was a student senator and earned honors as the Resident Advisor of the year (I should hope so, I had nothing else to do). I suppose the responsible thing would have been to seek employment without goofing off for this extra semester, but unless you HAVE to do that, who would choose it?He is staying to get lots of tang, hang with the fellas, and earn a degree that he has worked hard for.

If someone would have offered you $50 million to forgo that last semester would you have done it?

Sam Bradford, Peyton Manning, and countless others have made similar types of decisions. Not sure what's unique about this as it applies to Luck.

Others have made the same decision and it hasn't worked out. The only question that I have, and I'm sure Luck has asked himself this, is if you want to be a QB in the NFL how does it get better thatn the #1 pick.

Well, a lot of #1 picks are in bad situations, just by the nature of what it takes to earn that #1 pick. But, given the unsettled HC situation, the fact that there is no OC or offensive identity, and the fact that there's a serious chance for a lockout and all the garbage associated with that, crap...just wait this #### out and see if it gets better in 2012. I'm not saying that would be my decision, necessarily, but I totally can understand why he chose to stay and finish things up at Stanford.

 

[JamesTheScot]

I thought you went to learn? That's what I used to tell my freshmen when I advised them in my college professor days. Still believe it. When else in your life will you take a course in art history, or astronomy, or french, or whatever? Not because you have to (beside courses in your major and the few schools left with distribution requirements), but because you want to learn something new.

Most people go to college to get prepared for careers. This idea of the classical, cross-discipline education is rather dated.The concept of requiring students to take classes in subjects that have no bearing on or in any way relate to their intended career choice is a crime in my book. Where else are you going to tell adults that to get A they must not only study A but study X, Y and Z...and pay thousands of dollars more in tuition and books for the unwanted priviledge?

Do I think learning about those other topics is beneficial and can enrich someone's life? Sure. I'd encourage everyone to do so. But the idea of making someone get that kind of education by compulsion (take music appreciation or we won't teach you engineering) is where I take issue.