"they'll be on the field at the same time" (1 Viewer)

[joey]

I feel like I've heard the "they'll be on the field at the same time" schtick every now and then

when teams/coaches talk about how they'll get the ball to 2 talented RBs on the same team.

Obviously, this years prime example is Reggie Bush and Deuce. (Lining up a star running back

in the slot instead of a "true WR"?, for example, just to get him on the field more often)

Can anyone think of any examples of where this concept actually came true?

 

[Borat]

Bo Jackson/Marcus Allen and Christian Okoye/Barry Word in Super Tecmo Bowl.

 

[Doug B]

I feel like I've heard the "they'll be on the field at the same time" schtick every now and then

when teams/coaches talk about how they'll get the ball to 2 talented RBs on the same team.

Obviously, this years prime example is Reggie Bush and Deuce. (Lining up a star running back

in the slot instead of a "true WR"?, for example, just to get him on the field more often)

Can anyone think of any examples of where this concept actually came true?

This is a great point ... this had to have gotten ignored only because of being posted so late at night.To my recollection, two tailback sets are almost unknown in the NFL. A FB and a tailback, yes. But two tailbacks

And when it is done, it's kind of gimmicky ... not a team's bread and butter.

 

[joey]

I feel like I've heard the "they'll be on the field at the same time" schtick every now and then

when teams/coaches talk about how they'll get the ball to 2 talented RBs on the same team.

Obviously, this years prime example is Reggie Bush and Deuce. (Lining up a star running back

in the slot instead of a "true WR"?, for example, just to get him on the field more often)

Can anyone think of any examples of where this concept actually came true?

This is a great point ... this had to have gotten ignored only because of being posted so late at night.To my recollection, two tailback sets are almost unknown in the NFL. A FB and a tailback, yes. But two tailbacks

And when it is done, it's kind of gimmicky ... not a team's bread and butter.

Yeah, late night post sunk it to the bottom of the pile... I'd love to hear if anyone has any real examples of the 2 tailback set?

I can't think of a single one.

So, imo, there is not a single precedent to back up this concept that "Bush

will be on the field at the same time as Deuce cuz he's such a play maker".

It's either RBBC or one gets injured or one outplays the other and gets the

lionshare of carries. But I refuse to believe the "they'll be in on the same plays"

hype...

 

[jurb26]

I feel like I've heard the "they'll be on the field at the same time" schtick every now and then

when teams/coaches talk about how they'll get the ball to 2 talented RBs on the same team.

Obviously, this years prime example is Reggie Bush and Deuce. (Lining up a star running back

in the slot instead of a "true WR"?, for example, just to get him on the field more often)

Can anyone think of any examples of where this concept actually came true?

This is a great point ... this had to have gotten ignored only because of being posted so late at night.To my recollection, two tailback sets are almost unknown in the NFL. A FB and a tailback, yes. But two tailbacks

And when it is done, it's kind of gimmicky ... not a team's bread and butter.

Yeah, late night post sunk it to the bottom of the pile... I'd love to hear if anyone has any real examples of the 2 tailback set?

I can't think of a single one.

So, imo, there is not a single precedent to back up this concept that "Bush

will be on the field at the same time as Deuce cuz he's such a play maker".

It's either RBBC or one gets injured or one outplays the other and gets the

lionshare of carries. But I refuse to believe the "they'll be in on the same plays"

hype...

Kind of hard to have that precedent. How many RBs have there been that are nealy equally as good as a WR (not pass catching RB) as they are RB? Thats the kind of threat Bush is. I do recall both Faulk and Jackson on the field together. I also believe that Westy was used outside along with some power RBs in Philly.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

E.metcalf and whatever fat guy Atlanta had in the June Jones era?

 

[glock]

(3) Csonka, Kiick and Mercury Morris...

 

[sholditch]

I think FF-wise it doesn't really matter, cause if they both are out there there's still only one ball, and you don't get points for blocking or being a decoy. I imagine we will see some sets where Deuce plays RB and they line Bush up in the slot, but still, it's either a running play or a pass play. I think that statement simply means that Deuce being in at tailback doesn't necessarily mean that Bush will be on the sidelines.

 

[TME]

We should find out on Monday what exactly that means. I do not see much benefit in lining up two tailbacks. But, with Bush, you can motion him out into the slot or simply line him up in the slot as a true receiving option. It really only has a chance to work in NO because of the special versatility of Bush. I know everyone has seen him at USC. This guy was not just catching screen passes. He was downfield a lot. Running vertical routes. That's unique even to Faulk or LT who did/do most their receiving inside of 10 yards. When I hear "both on the field at the same time" I am thinking Duece at tail back (probably to pass block) and Reggie at WR3...to get the ball. On running formation, I doubt they will both be on the field. But, again...Monday.

 

[TME]

Close example might be Woods and Brooks. That was an example of true compliments. But, it was not so much about being on the field at the same time as it was about Icky handling it inside the 20's and Brooks handling it between the 20's. But, both were very productive.

 

[LHUCKS]

Bo Jackson/Marcus Allen and Christian Okoye/Barry Word in Super Tecmo Bowl.

 

[joey]

We should find out on Monday what exactly that means. I do not see much benefit in lining up two tailbacks. But, with Bush, you can motion him out into the slot or simply line him up in the slot as a true receiving option. It really only has a chance to work in NO because of the special versatility of Bush. I know everyone has seen him at USC. This guy was not just catching screen passes. He was downfield a lot. Running vertical routes. That's unique even to Faulk or LT who did/do most their receiving inside of 10 yards. When I hear "both on the field at the same time" I am thinking Duece at tail back (probably to pass block) and Reggie at WR3...to get the ball. On running formation, I doubt they will both be on the field. But, again...Monday.

Yeah, even though I mentioned the 2 tailback set, I guess what I'm speaking moreabout is the REAL chance that Bush will be on the field as a WR when Deuce is at RB.I didn't see much of Bush in college (gasp!) but it sounds like folks think he's as goodas a WR. Hmmm...And the point about there being just 1 ball is exactly what I'm talk about. I'm sayingthat the "both on the field at the same time" schtick doesn't directly translate to Bushhaving increased touches.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Don't discount the fact that Deuce has shown he can catch a few passes and block as well. I'm not suggesting that Deuce is going to become an H-Back, but I could certainly envision some packages where Bush splits out wide with Deuce in the backfield and the next play, Bush lines up in the backfield with Deuce shifting along the line. There are a large number of possibilities.

 

[EBF]

We should find out on Monday what exactly that means. I do not see much benefit in lining up two tailbacks. But, with Bush, you can motion him out into the slot or simply line him up in the slot as a true receiving option. It really only has a chance to work in NO because of the special versatility of Bush. I know everyone has seen him at USC. This guy was not just catching screen passes. He was downfield a lot. Running vertical routes. That's unique even to Faulk or LT who did/do most their receiving inside of 10 yards. When I hear "both on the field at the same time" I am thinking Duece at tail back (probably to pass block) and Reggie at WR3...to get the ball. On running formation, I doubt they will both be on the field. But, again...Monday.

Yeah, even though I mentioned the 2 tailback set, I guess what I'm speaking moreabout is the REAL chance that Bush will be on the field as a WR when Deuce is at RB.I didn't see much of Bush in college (gasp!) but it sounds like folks think he's as goodas a WR. Hmmm...And the point about there being just 1 ball is exactly what I'm talk about. I'm sayingthat the "both on the field at the same time" schtick doesn't directly translate to Bushhaving increased touches.

It doesn't? It seems to me that if he's on the field then there's a greater chance of him getting the ball than there would be if he was standing on the sidelines.The thing a lot of people don't seem to understand about Bush is that he's not a classic RB. He's a WR/RB hybrid, which is why he's such a useful weapon for his team and also why he's such a great prospect for PPR leagues.

 

[WhoDat]

(3) Csonka, Kiick and Mercury Morris...

Good call. I can see the Saints installing plays for the dual backfield. While unorthodox, I do not know of any other teams in recent memory that could trot a pair of players like that into their backfield. Of course, this is assuming McCallister resembles part of his old self. Bush is a monster in the open field with a pair of hands most WR would love to have. Should the Saints catch a defense on the field with traditional run or first down personnel with that dual backfield, well, the defense has problem.A LB is not going to be able to run with Bush in the slot. Bringing up a S means you just opened the top or in/out for one of your WR. The defense either gambles or is forced to burn a TO. I doubt you'll see an I Formation but a split backfield would make sense. The QB would have the option of an inside handoff, counter or audible to a pass play based on the pre-snap read. Send Bush wide...see how many get left in the box...who checks Bush...what WR has single coverage...determine play...snap. McCallister should be playing a hand in his favor, if you run, or someone else will have what should be a favorable man on man match-up. I don't see the Saints building an offense or playbook around this but it makes perfect sense to install a few plays and, depending on the opposition's tendencies, attempt this 1-4 times per game.

 

[Doug B]

E.metcalf and whatever fat guy Atlanta had in the June Jones era?

Metcalf had made a full conversion to WR by then. Pretty close, though.Bush lining up in the slot for 4 or 5 plays a game doesn not equal "extensive use of 2 tailback sets", IMHO. Their touches are not going to come too often on overlapping downs.

 

[CrossEyed]

Franco & Rocky

 

[psychobillies]

link

The Saints won't have much trouble being smart with McAllister's workload thanks to a certain luxury known as Reggie Bush.

The two tailbacks will share time in the backfield, sometimes alternating, sometimes lining up together in various formations. McAllister figures each will get about 50 to 60 snaps a game, whereas he used to get about 70. But that should keep both players fresher, as well as keeping defenses off balance.

"I definitely feel like we can both save each other's legs," said Bush, who was extremely successful at USC in a similar situation with backfield mate LenDale White. "We're going to do everything we can to work together instead of against each other. But we are going to compete with each other.

"Sharing time with LenDale, I'm very familiar with the situation. So I'm happy Deuce is here, and I'm hoping to make this thing work."

McAllister said there are some plays in the playbook where the tailbacks are interchangeable. But not all of them.

"Some of the things (Bush) is going to do as a receiver, I don't even want to think about," McAllister joked. "Some of the cuts and some of the moves he's making out there, I haven't made those moves in a while."

. . . . . . .

I think you're right. These guys will share the backfield occasionally, but I think it will be handled much the same way that USC handled Bush and White.

 

[Zigg]

I believe the Saints opened with Stecker/Bush in the backfield against the Titans, with Stecker running up the gut for 7. No gimmick, just a solid play. It can, and probably will be done with Bush/Deuce.

 

[The Beezer]

How about Mack and Byner when they both rushed for 1K in '85? Did they alternate plays? I remember watching some games but I wasn't very old so I don't remember.

 

[Marc Levin]

I think FF-wise it doesn't really matter, cause if they both are out there there's still only one ball, and you don't get points for blocking or being a decoy. I imagine we will see some sets where Deuce plays RB and they line Bush up in the slot, but still, it's either a running play or a pass play. I think that statement simply means that Deuce being in at tailback doesn't necessarily mean that Bush will be on the sidelines.

Exactly. Each situation is unique - with Miami last year, Ricky made Brown an inconsistent start since Brown's carries plummetted, yet his targets did not increase.In NO, I suspect that Bush and Deuce on the field at the same time could be a number of things - swing Bush into the slot, run to Deuce, run to Bush, decoy Bush and pass to Deuce, vice versa, or a pass play with both in for max protect.The real problem with both on the field at the same time is that Bush's major weakness is pass protection - Deuce will always be responsible for picking up the blitz.

 

[Liquid Tension]

I think FF-wise it doesn't really matter, cause if they both are out there there's still only one ball, and you don't get points for blocking or being a decoy. I imagine we will see some sets where Deuce plays RB and they line Bush up in the slot, but still, it's either a running play or a pass play. I think that statement simply means that Deuce being in at tailback doesn't necessarily mean that Bush will be on the sidelines.

Exactly. Each situation is unique - with Miami last year, Ricky made Brown an inconsistent start since Brown's carries plummetted, yet his targets did not increase.In NO, I suspect that Bush and Deuce on the field at the same time could be a number of things - swing Bush into the slot, run to Deuce, run to Bush, decoy Bush and pass to Deuce, vice versa, or a pass play with both in for max protect.The real problem with both on the field at the same time is that Bush's major weakness is pass protection - Deuce will always be responsible for picking up the blitz.

Last year Ricky and Ronnie were on the same field for the same plays for I guess around 30 plays for the year. They used RB as a FB some ofthose times and gave him the ball some times. They also would fake it RB up the middle and pitch to RB. Other times they went different ways out to the flat. It never clicked great, but was also effective at time.

 

[DropKick]

I don't see too many Raider games but didn't they do this a little with Napolean Kaufman, who was also undersized? Harvey Williams maybe?

 

[Marc Levin]

I think FF-wise it doesn't really matter, cause if they both are out there there's still only one ball, and you don't get points for blocking or being a decoy. I imagine we will see some sets where Deuce plays RB and they line Bush up in the slot, but still, it's either a running play or a pass play. I think that statement simply means that Deuce being in at tailback doesn't necessarily mean that Bush will be on the sidelines.

Exactly. Each situation is unique - with Miami last year, Ricky made Brown an inconsistent start since Brown's carries plummetted, yet his targets did not increase.In NO, I suspect that Bush and Deuce on the field at the same time could be a number of things - swing Bush into the slot, run to Deuce, run to Bush, decoy Bush and pass to Deuce, vice versa, or a pass play with both in for max protect.The real problem with both on the field at the same time is that Bush's major weakness is pass protection - Deuce will always be responsible for picking up the blitz.

Last year Ricky and Ronnie were on the same field for the same plays for I guess around 30 plays for the year. They used RB as a FB some ofthose times and gave him the ball some times. They also would fake it RB up the middle and pitch to RB. Other times they went different ways out to the flat. It never clicked great, but was also effective at time.

It was more than that - they had Brown split out as a WR on quite a few plays.They were in the same BACKfield maybe 30 times all year.

 

[Keys Myaths]

The real problem with both on the field at the same time is that Bush's major weakness is pass protection - Deuce will always be responsible for picking up the blitz.

Yes, but that's good for Bush's fantasy value, right? Since Bush isn't picking up the blitz, he'll be in the passing game...

 

[cybergourmet]

this has all the similarities to the preseason rookie-Vick hype. The split could end up as fantasy-disaster. 20 touches a game. Goalline favoring Deuce... who knows? It's funny how the high reward is always thought of and the high risk isn't. Considering Bush is going in the first round in many drafts I would make it a high risk case... as RB 15-20 not so high-risk.

 

[Keys Myaths]

Considering Bush is going in the first round in many drafts

No, he's not.

 

[cybergourmet]

Considering Bush is going in the first round in many drafts

No, he's not.

In mocks he's going 3rd round... sometimes 2nd sometimes 4th...He went 7th RB overall in my last draft. is "no he's not" a way of saying he's not worth a first rounder? or that he's an RB15-20? Man, there IS lots of attitude in this forum this year.

 

[Marek]

Considering Bush is going in the first round in many drafts

No, he's not.

In mocks he's going 3rd round... sometimes 2nd sometimes 4th...He went 7th RB overall in my last draft.

is "no he's not" a way of saying he's not worth a first rounder? or that he's an RB15-20?

Man, there IS lots of attitude in this forum this year.

Ah, come on. It's an internet forum named the "Shark Pool". Grow a skin ;DHe's saying that he's not going 1st in many drafts (i.e. a significant percentage). The mock drafts / draft results bear this out. That's all he's saying.

 

[cybergourmet]

ahhh... now I can wipe my eyes and watch the cards/pats.

 

[Marc Levin]

The real problem with both on the field at the same time is that Bush's major weakness is pass protection - Deuce will always be responsible for picking up the blitz.

Yes, but that's good for Bush's fantasy value, right? Since Bush isn't picking up the blitz, he'll be in the passing game...

Yes. Just pointing out the problem with both in the same backfield - the D knows that they are blitzing and they wil know which RB will be responsible for the blitzer. That's a big advantage to the D - Bush might get the catch, but I'd bet he gets nailed right away - PPR? good for one point - non-PPR, good only if he evades the tackler.

 

[Marc Levin]

Considering Bush is going in the first round in many drafts

No, he's not.

True - he's going in the first in SOME drafts.He's going in the second in MANY drafts.