Thomas vs. Dez Bryant (1 Viewer)

[RBM]

A huge factor to consider in this 3 game Dez explosion is the Cowboys have been getting beat up on early in all these games. Always nice to be in catchup mode for a full half.

They weren't in catchup move against Cleveland or the Eagles; losing <> catchup mode. And that is simply the way the Cowboys play football. last night, they ran plenty, and Dez got enough targets to be very productive.

They were losing like 13 or 16-0 to Clev at the half. Last night they were losing almost all game. Bad D that never plays with a lead = great spot for a wr

 

[Concept Coop]

A huge factor to consider in this 3 game Dez explosion is the Cowboys have been getting beat up on early in all these games. Always nice to be in catchup mode for a full half.

They weren't in catchup move against Cleveland or the Eagles; losing <> catchup mode. And that is simply the way the Cowboys play football. last night, they ran plenty, and Dez got enough targets to be very productive.

They were losing like 13 or 16-0 to Clev at the half. Last night they were losing almost all game. Bad D that never plays with a lead = great spot for a wr

Romo only had 27 attempts last night. Washington was an outlier, with 62; that is catchup mode. Against Cleveland, he throw it 50 times, 9.75 more than his average, but the game went into overtime. Romo averages 40.25 attempts a game this year, plenty for Dez to put up top 5 numbers. His production per target rate is very good.

 

[JPeso]

That short catch and run as he bullied DRC into the end zone last night made me think he channeled his inner Michael Irvin.

I posted when he was in his bye week that I thought it was time to buy because I thought I could see it all starting to come together and click and I have to say I didn't see it coming together this well. But it's obvious: he is a rare talent. the things he can do reminds you of a lot of the greats on different plays.

I've seen you post something like this several times now. You state above it is "obvious" - but in September you were in the Dez threads questioning him just as much as the next guy, asking folks to sell you on him, when Dez' owners already felt it was obvious. I have no issues with folks hopping on board (after all, adjusting stances is important), but enough with the pimping of a call/thread that came long after a widely discussed topic.

 

[ItsOnlytheRiver]

Been a fan of both for a while. Both of them are on my list of untradeable players in dynasty leagues.I wouldn't trade DT for Dez though. He's more of a size/speed freak and has about 150 more receiving yards on the same number of targets.

That's a bit misleading. They have about the same number of catches on those targets which is more important. Thomas is averaging a few yards more per catch. Look at any great WR's career stats... they're average yards per catch fluctuates that much year to year. Perhaps Dez is at his ceiling YPC and Thomas is at his floor YPC, and next year the disparity will be even greater, but I wouldn't be drawing any conclusions from that yardage difference just yet.

 

[Shutout]

That short catch and run as he bullied DRC into the end zone last night made me think he channeled his inner Michael Irvin.

I posted when he was in his bye week that I thought it was time to buy because I thought I could see it all starting to come together and click and I have to say I didn't see it coming together this well. But it's obvious: he is a rare talent. the things he can do reminds you of a lot of the greats on different plays.

I've seen you post something like this several times now. You state above it is "obvious" - but in September you were in the Dez threads questioning him just as much as the next guy, asking folks to sell you on him, when Dez' owners already felt it was obvious. I have no issues with folks hopping on board (after all, adjusting stances is important), but enough with the pimping of a call/thread that came long after a widely discussed topic.

This is one of the most beneficial aspects of these boards. I never claimed to be a long-time supporter of Dez from day 1.I came into the season looking for info. I got it (from here and from other places). I then went into the beginning of the season watching him closely. I saw a significant uptick in people starting to throw in the towel and griping about him at the same time I was saying "Wait! I see this thing coming around". I then posted on it following the Week 4 game which was HIGHLY criticized by media and a lot of people here as they picked on Dez and called out his bonehead plays and all the things they thought he did wrong.

I put a different spin on that and said have just a little more faith and go get him. I don't see the problem with that and I especially don't see a problem with it with your reasoning of "came long after a widely discussed topic" because the most important impacts on Fantasy football are always widely discussed for very long times. Heck, people are STILL talking about Finley and Philip Rivers from 4 years ago.

With all the filler material in these threads, that thread discussing Dez was EXACTLY what should be here. It outlined making a good pickup IF you agreed with the reasoning. Some people did. Some didn't. But there have actually been a good number of people come back and revisit that topic and add additional comments. That's what its about. Why would we want anything less than to learn from the right calls AND the wrong ones? I learned about Tamme a few years ago from what people discussed about foster. I don't care if those threads come up every day for the next five years because there are still things to learn from people.

We are a community of information seekers and what makes FBG great also is a hinderance some times because there is SO MUCH info out there that we have to dig and bump things to keep the same vein of thought flowing. I don't see anything wrong with it and, personally, I appreciate seeing all the Reggie Wayne and Denario Alexander threads bumped constantly because it points out to me that someone knew something and shared it and that helped my teams.

 

[JPeso]

That short catch and run as he bullied DRC into the end zone last night made me think he channeled his inner Michael Irvin.

I posted when he was in his bye week that I thought it was time to buy because I thought I could see it all starting to come together and click and I have to say I didn't see it coming together this well. But it's obvious: he is a rare talent. the things he can do reminds you of a lot of the greats on different plays.

I've seen you post something like this several times now. You state above it is "obvious" - but in September you were in the Dez threads questioning him just as much as the next guy, asking folks to sell you on him, when Dez' owners already felt it was obvious. I have no issues with folks hopping on board (after all, adjusting stances is important), but enough with the pimping of a call/thread that came long after a widely discussed topic.

This is one of the most beneficial aspects of these boards. I never claimed to be a long-time supporter of Dez from day 1.I came into the season looking for info. I got it (from here and from other places). I then went into the beginning of the season watching him closely. I saw a significant uptick in people starting to throw in the towel and griping about him at the same time I was saying "Wait! I see this thing coming around". I then posted on it following the Week 4 game which was HIGHLY criticized by media and a lot of people here as they picked on Dez and called out his bonehead plays and all the things they thought he did wrong.

I put a different spin on that and said have just a little more faith and go get him. I don't see the problem with that and I especially don't see a problem with it with your reasoning of "came long after a widely discussed topic" because the most important impacts on Fantasy football are always widely discussed for very long times. Heck, people are STILL talking about Finley and Philip Rivers from 4 years ago.

With all the filler material in these threads, that thread discussing Dez was EXACTLY what should be here. It outlined making a good pickup IF you agreed with the reasoning. Some people did. Some didn't. But there have actually been a good number of people come back and revisit that topic and add additional comments. That's what its about. Why would we want anything less than to learn from the right calls AND the wrong ones? I learned about Tamme a few years ago from what people discussed about foster. I don't care if those threads come up every day for the next five years because there are still things to learn from people.

We are a community of information seekers and what makes FBG great also is a hinderance some times because there is SO MUCH info out there that we have to dig and bump things to keep the same vein of thought flowing. I don't see anything wrong with it and, personally, I appreciate seeing all the Reggie Wayne and Denario Alexander threads bumped constantly because it points out to me that someone knew something and shared it and that helped my teams.

 

[stbugs]

If Murray is healthy next year and the Cowboys defense stays healthy and plays to its potential, Dez may not have some of the games he's had when they are down 2-3 TDs in the 1st half.

If Dez is going to keep this TD production up, he needs the Cowboys to be able to run in the redzone. I think that helps his production, rather than hinder it. He gets so much attention in the redzone - often bracket coverage. A lot of his TDs, like last night, are not the traditional fade/jumpball targets, due to the attention he gets. The Cowboys being a well oiled machine helps everyone, except maybe Witten, who gets a lot of targets that the WRs don't, due to the line not providing the WRs time to get open beyond 10 yards. As a dynasty owner, obviously both are great. And I don't want to claim Manning makes Thomas; he did just fine with Tebow, and will do just fine in any situation. But so will Dez, who I think is the better football player. If he really is putting it all together mentally, or even enough to stay on the field, he'll be nearly as productive as anyone.

Possibly, I would just worry about that. I have no worries about Manning and Thomas, they will be throwing in every game regardless of situation. I worry about Romo a bit. Anyone remember last year when Romo blew all those early games and when Murray came on, they pulled a Matt Ryan/Falcons and ran the ball once up. I had Romo and I remember quite a few games where Romo had a decent first half and then nothing in the second half once the got a lead. Romo hasn't dispelled the mistake myth this year and as a Romo owner last year and a Ryan owner this year, I saw similarities and it sucks FF-wise.So, while I understand some of the comments above about not trailing all the time, we haven't seen the Cowboys with a healthy D and a healthy Murray yet. I remember seeing some games last year and the shut off of the passing game worries me more than Manning/Thomas.I love both of them. I would have kept Dez this year in one heavey FBG league if I could have kept him later than a 3rd and I love owning Thomas who I drafted in the 3rd (after Dez was gone). I honestly would say I would keep Thomas over Dez all things being equal.

 

[coachbobbyfinstock]

That short catch and run as he bullied DRC into the end zone last night made me think he channeled his inner Michael Irvin.

I posted when he was in his bye week that I thought it was time to buy because I thought I could see it all starting to come together and click and I have to say I didn't see it coming together this well. But it's obvious: he is a rare talent. the things he can do reminds you of a lot of the greats on different plays.

I've seen you post something like this several times now. You state above it is "obvious" - but in September you were in the Dez threads questioning him just as much as the next guy, asking folks to sell you on him, when Dez' owners already felt it was obvious. I have no issues with folks hopping on board (after all, adjusting stances is important), but enough with the pimping of a call/thread that came long after a widely discussed topic.

JPeso went straight investigative Gangster style up in here!!! Calling Jokers out left and right! hit em with that empirical evidence kid!! lol

 

[lbouchard]

Interesting nugget I saw on Twitter: When throwing to Dez, Romo has a 119.7 rating, second among all WRs in the NFL. First? Peyton when throwing to DemT, with a 129.9 rating.

 

[ItsOnlytheRiver]

With the fantasy season concluded these guys couldn't have more similar stats. Good thing we declared this debate over back in November.

 

[RBM]

With the fantasy season concluded these guys couldn't have more similar stats. Good thing we declared this debate over back in November.

Something to be said of consistency though. Dez sucked for half the year and my team suffered because of it.

 

[Concept Coop]

With the fantasy season concluded these guys couldn't have more similar stats. Good thing we declared this debate over back in November.

Something to be said of consistency though. Dez sucked for half the year and my team suffered because of it.

Dez was hurt early on and your team suffered because of it. Dez won me my Christmas money back - as I'm sure he did a lot of his owners. I've forgiven him for his slow start.

 

[ItsOnlytheRiver]

With the fantasy season concluded these guys couldn't have more similar stats. Good thing we declared this debate over back in November.

Something to be said of consistency though. Dez sucked for half the year and my team suffered because of it.

We can nitpick each one of them all day. You don't think Thomas owners suffered in the playoffs when he went 4-13 in week 15? They're 24. 24. Consistency will come. And that's not even mentioning the fact that his first half was pretty darn good, too, minus the games where we was playing through injury. The more important thing here, to me, is that he actually played through them.. and this last one he's excelling while playing through it.

 

[dickey moe]

I'll take the consistency and the lack of headcasedness of Thomas over Dez. Both are WR1s though.

 

[Concept Coop]

I'll take the consistency and the lack of headcasedness of Thomas over Dez. Both are WR1s though.

There is no consistency advantage. Dez was injured early in the season and needed a couple games to get on the same page with Romo. But from that point on he's been as consistently great as any in the hobby. He's scored in 7 straight games, 10 TDs over that span.

 

[Chimp Magnet]

I'll take the consistency and the lack of headcasedness of Thomas over Dez. Both are WR1s though.

There is no consistency advantage. Dez was injured early in the season and needed a couple games to get on the same page with Romo. But from that point on he's been as consistently great as any in the hobby. He's scored in 7 straight games, 10 TDs over that span.

But in those 10 games he was inconsistent with his TDs. One game he'd get 1 td. Next week 2. Then back to 1 for a few weeks. Inconsistent!

 

[Concept Coop]

But in those 10 games he was inconsistent with his TDs. One game he'd get 1 td. Next week 2. Then back to 1 for a few weeks.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

But in those 10 games he was inconsistent with his TDs. One game he'd get 1 td. Next week 2. Then back to 1 for a few weeks.

 

[dickey moe]

But in those 10 games he was inconsistent with his TDs. One game he'd get 1 td. Next week 2. Then back to 1 for a few weeks.

You sound like a bunch of Bryant owners. I have no dog in this fight (I own neither), but I will reassert that Thomas > Bryant (slightly), IMO.

 

[EBF]

The argument is a massive waste of time. They are both great young receivers. Move along.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Not to take anything away from Bryant, but keep in mind that the Cowboys have been in catch-up mode in almost every game the last six weeks:

-They trailed Philly by as many as 11 and were behind for most of the game.

-They trailed Cleveland at home by 10 in the 4th quarter.

-They trailed the Redskins by as many as 25.

-They trailed the Bengals by 9 in the 4th quarter.

-They were back and forth with the Steelers the whole way, so this is the exception among the six.

-They trailed the Saints by 14 in the 4th quarter (but Bryant's two scores came in the 2nd quarter).

And Romo's attempts in the last six games have been 50, 62, 27 and 43, 42 and 43. Those are insanely high number of attempts.

The point: Bryant has benefited by the Cowboys frequently being in catch-up mode and having to throw the ball virtually non-stop. And sure, the Cowboys have gotten back in those games, and even won some of them, thanks to the plays Bryant made, but the Broncos, meanwhile, for the better part of two months have always been winning in the 4th quarter, often times comfortably, and haven't needed to throw it all over the place, which means less opportunity for Thomas and the other pass catchers, to put up crazy numbers on a week to week basis. Peyton only has 40+ attempts in four games this year.; Romo has 40+ in five of his last six.

 

[Otis]

Not to take anything away from Bryant, but keep in mind that the Cowboys have been in catch-up mode in almost every game the last six weeks: -They trailed Philly by as many as 11 and were behind for most of the game. -They trailed Cleveland at home by 10 in the 4th quarter.-They trailed the Redskins by as many as 25.-They trailed the Bengals by 9 in the 4th quarter. -They were back and forth with the Steelers the whole way, so this is the exception among the six. -They trailed the Saints by 14 in the 4th quarter (but Bryant's two scores came in the 2nd quarter). And Romo's attempts in the last six games have been 50, 62, 27 and 43, 42 and 43. Those are insanely high number of attempts. The point: Bryant has benefited by the Cowboys frequently being in catch-up mode and having to throw the ball virtually non-stop. And sure, the Cowboys have gotten back in those games, and even won some of them, thanks to the plays Bryant made, but the Broncos, meanwhile, for the better part of two months have always been winning in the 4th quarter, often times comfortably, and haven't needed to throw it all over the place, which means less opportunity for Thomas and the other pass catchers, to put up crazy numbers on a week to week basis. Peyton only has 40+ attempts in four games this year.; Romo has 40+ in five of his last six.

Very good point here. Manning hasn't needed to force feed DT the way Romo has force fed Bryant.

 

[wiscstlatlmia]

The argument is a massive waste of time. They are both great young receivers. Move along.

 

[donkshow]

With the fantasy season concluded these guys couldn't have more similar stats. Good thing we declared this debate over back in November.

Something to be said of consistency though. Dez sucked for half the year and my team suffered because of it.

Bryant had 4 games under 10 FP (0.5ppr) one which was 9.2. 2 of those games he either got hurt in the game or played hurt and used as a decoy. 2 of those game in the first 3 games of the season.Bryant finished WR3 after Johnson and Marshall in standard scoring and a solid 20pts ahead of DT.Both are studs, I'd prefer Bryant, but wouldn't complain about Thomas. Bryant seems to finally have got his head on straight and we'll see how the off-season goes. Miles Austin seems to be an afterthought in that offence now and that bodes extremely well for Bryant heading into next season after finishing the second half of the season as WR1.

 

[Dez]

Very entertaining thread, this is the 1st time I looked at it because what is really the point ? The Dez owners like me will tell you "I would NEVER trade Dez for DT straight up" and the DT owners will say "I would never trade DT for Dez straight up".

I made sure in 2010 when Dez was a rookie I got him in every single dynasty league I was currently in at the time (3 leagues) I always believed in his talent and a couple of players through the years I have stepped out on a limb for during my days. The 1st was in 1998 when I had to have Randy Moss and I did everything in my power to make sure I got that guy in the rookie draft and that paid off huge. Dez was the 2nd WR I felt this way about in 2010 and the 1st since Moss in 1998.

Things sure were looking cloudy for a moment there but I never waivered as I had Dez on 18 teams this year. Next year it will be much more difficult to get him on so many teams except the 4 dynasty teams I already have him on.

I watched a lot and did a few dynasty start ups this year Dez went before DT in every draft I seen. Now I was a big Thomas fan coming in this year. Up until this year I wasn't very high on him at all but watching him overcome the injuries and really turn it on to end 2011 I really liked what I seen. I did grab him in 1 dynasty draft via a trade after someone else took him and very happy to have him.

I really like both guys but as you can see by my logo and screen name I side with Dez but DT is a great player and a guy I would also love to have on my teams.

 

[SSOG]

Not to take anything away from Bryant, but keep in mind that the Cowboys have been in catch-up mode in almost every game the last six weeks: -They trailed Philly by as many as 11 and were behind for most of the game. -They trailed Cleveland at home by 10 in the 4th quarter.-They trailed the Redskins by as many as 25.-They trailed the Bengals by 9 in the 4th quarter. -They were back and forth with the Steelers the whole way, so this is the exception among the six. -They trailed the Saints by 14 in the 4th quarter (but Bryant's two scores came in the 2nd quarter). And Romo's attempts in the last six games have been 50, 62, 27 and 43, 42 and 43. Those are insanely high number of attempts. The point: Bryant has benefited by the Cowboys frequently being in catch-up mode and having to throw the ball virtually non-stop. And sure, the Cowboys have gotten back in those games, and even won some of them, thanks to the plays Bryant made, but the Broncos, meanwhile, for the better part of two months have always been winning in the 4th quarter, often times comfortably, and haven't needed to throw it all over the place, which means less opportunity for Thomas and the other pass catchers, to put up crazy numbers on a week to week basis. Peyton only has 40+ attempts in four games this year.; Romo has 40+ in five of his last six.

Very good point here. Manning hasn't needed to force feed DT the way Romo has force fed Bryant.

I love me some Demaryius, but come on. Bryant has 130 targets on the season. Thomas has 133. Regardless of whether he's "needed" to throw as much, both receivers have gotten a very similar amount of burn, and both receivers have posted very similar stats as a result. Dez has gotten 33 targets over the last 4 games. Demaryius has gotten 40. Dallas coming back and Denver playing with the lead sounds on the surface like it might matter... but it hasn't, and it doesn't.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

But in those 10 games he was inconsistent with his TDs. One game he'd get 1 td. Next week 2. Then back to 1 for a few weeks.

You sound like a bunch of Bryant owners. I have no dog in this fight (I own neither), but I will reassert that Thomas > Bryant (slightly), IMO.

I just thought it was a funny line, Francis. IRL, I take Dez. He's a bull with physical tools that are insane. Fantasy - I take Thomas. In case you didn't hear, Thomas has a guy named Manning throwing him the ball. I like Romo a lot, but it isn't even close.

 

[Bankerguy]

Not to take anything away from Bryant, but keep in mind that the Cowboys have been in catch-up mode in almost every game the last six weeks: -They trailed Philly by as many as 11 and were behind for most of the game. -They trailed Cleveland at home by 10 in the 4th quarter.-They trailed the Redskins by as many as 25.-They trailed the Bengals by 9 in the 4th quarter. -They were back and forth with the Steelers the whole way, so this is the exception among the six. -They trailed the Saints by 14 in the 4th quarter (but Bryant's two scores came in the 2nd quarter). And Romo's attempts in the last six games have been 50, 62, 27 and 43, 42 and 43. Those are insanely high number of attempts. The point: Bryant has benefited by the Cowboys frequently being in catch-up mode and having to throw the ball virtually non-stop. And sure, the Cowboys have gotten back in those games, and even won some of them, thanks to the plays Bryant made, but the Broncos, meanwhile, for the better part of two months have always been winning in the 4th quarter, often times comfortably, and haven't needed to throw it all over the place, which means less opportunity for Thomas and the other pass catchers, to put up crazy numbers on a week to week basis. Peyton only has 40+ attempts in four games this year.; Romo has 40+ in five of his last six.

So what doe that mean...really?This helps Calvin too playing for a poor Lions team. Should we think any less of him?This argument between the two players is crazy.Both elite. Both have great situations and both are just coming into their own.