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Thomas vs. Dez Bryant (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter twistd
- Start date
Shutout
Footballguy
As a Marshall owner, you can likely relate to this really well: Think of Dez and think of Marshall. Marshall has always been a knucklehead but he finally matured and now, even though his talent was never questioned, doesn't it just seem to jump into the statosphere when the two things come together?I think this is where Dez is going. He is beginning to make plays that I haven't seen since Marshall back in Denver, T.O., or AJ about 5 years ago. It blows me away to think what he might do if he checks all-in on living the game. If he starts learning more (he's learned a lot recently, you can just tell in the way he is running routes, his mannerisms on the sideline, etc), and they start using him in motion, I think he can be about as dominant a player in the NFL as there is. Keep in mind, he JUST turned 24. If he continues to progress at this rate, he will be a true elite and by the time he is 26-29, he might be the most coveted WR in ff.This. I actually have both on my current fantasy team. Picked them in back-to-back rounds, taking Dez first. The ONLY reason I took Dez first was I wanted a Bronco's WR, and both Decker and Thomas were on the board, plus I thought Dez was a bigger "name." I thought both were young, had growing potential, and in the right situation could be top 10 WR's. Worked out well, especially coupled with B. Marshall as my WR1. Now if I only had an RB who could stay healthy, but I digress...
My observation is that Dez has the superior physical skills, but he's a head-case, just like the aforementioned TO. Thomas is a high-end talent, with what appears to be a good work ethic, and is really rounding into form with Manning. If -I- was building a team, I'd go with Thomas, just because guys like Dez can be a cancer if they go bad...but if someone said to ignore the mental/off-field side of the game, Dez is the superior talent.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Seems like Thomas is already making those kinds of plays and you don't have to wait/hope that he isn't a permanent knucklehead either. Even if you think they're equal on the field I don't see how Thomas doesn't get the nod.
Fat Nick
Footballguy
See, I look at Thomas and I think "That guy is good." I watch Dez, and when he makes an amazing play, I think "Holy crap...that was amazing. How'd he do that?" I've never really felt Thomas was a freak of nature in a Megatron way...Bryant I have. Again, Thomas IS GOOD...Not saying that, just not quite at the same freakish athletic level.
This. I think Bryant's ceiling is Terrell Owens/Calvin Johnson level. I think Thomas' ceiling is, well...Thomas.
DoubleG
Footballguy
Do you realize that Thomas is 10 lbs heavier, 1 inch taller and was documented to run the 40 in 4.38 (compared to Bryant's 4.52)? So Thomas is bigger, stronger, faster and has at least as good hands.ETA: As a Thomas dynasty owner, I would not trade him straight up for Bryant. As Dez owners, would you trade him straight up for DT?
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
EBF
Footballguy
I liked both of them a lot coming out of college. I used to think Dez was better, but I think Thomas is better now. He has quietly become one of the top 5-6 receivers in the league. You can actually make a case for him being the best in the league right now when you look at what he's doing with his targets.
I still like Dez too, but I'd rank him a half notch below DT in real life and FF terms. Not quite as dominant. Not as consistent. He has 1 more target than Thomas, but almost 200 fewer yards. He's just not quite as good.
I still like Dez too, but I'd rank him a half notch below DT in real life and FF terms. Not quite as dominant. Not as consistent. He has 1 more target than Thomas, but almost 200 fewer yards. He's just not quite as good.
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
For those suggesting that Thomas has a favorable situation, having Peyton throwing him the ball instead of Romo, while that's true, keep in mind that Thomas is on pace for 1,493 receiving yards. The only other WRs who have ever put up that kind of yardage with Peyton Manning are Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison. Just think about that.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Give me the WR who's running WFO every time the ball comes his way over the guy making spectacular grabs too. The ability to get open is the best skill a WR can have IMO.
EBF
Footballguy
Right, and he's doing this damage on a relatively low number of targets. Of the top 10 NFL leaders in receiving yards, he has the fewest targets at 85. The three guys ahead of him have 106, 130, and 93. The three guys behind him have 107, 104, and 105. It makes what he's accomplishing all the more impressive. I have him on three dynasty teams and can count the number of players I'd trade him straight up for on one hand.
wiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
LOLI have to go Thomas here.
If we were looking at pure skill set and god given ability then I would go Dez, but by a very slight margin.
That slight margin is averaged out and surpassed by the fact that Demaryius seemingly has a better work ethic and is far more consistent.
wiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
Thats what should make this obvious to most. I don't think anyone would be giving up Thomas to get Bryant right now'DoubleG said:
MogusMaximus
Footballguy
People on this board WANT TO BELIEVE Bryant is amazing. Sure, he's good. Many times in this thread I've read about his amazing athletic ability, even comparing him to Megatron. Get the #### out. Bryant is a very talented, physical receiver. But he will NEVER, I repeat NEVER, be on Megatron's level. Believing so is homerism. I just haven't seen it from him.
MogusMaximus
Footballguy
This is what I'm talking about. Bryant has never shown this ability. You WANT to believe, you are creating this in your mind.'JuniorNB said:
flapgreen
Footballguy
Agreed.
Lavachebeadsman
Footballguy
Dez has the superior ability, in my opinion. DT is an absolute baller but if Dez is focused, only Calvin is better.
Lavachebeadsman
Footballguy
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DoubleG
Footballguy
Let's not go here. We could spend 8 pages playing "Youtube Highlight One-Upsmanship". I could post have a dozen DT videos that equally as impressive. We could start with his 8 100+ yard receiving games. Dez has 4, despite having 7 more starts. DT has 5 this year. You see, that's part of the point - with Dez, people always talk potential, with DT, he's already turning it into consistant production. This season DT has had 1 poor performance - Houston when he was 3 for 34. Dez? 3 worse performance where he was held to under 20 yards receiving.
At this point in the season, DT has 933 receiving yards - thats 5 more yards than Dez had the entire season last year. It's also almost 200 more yards than Dez has, despite the fact that Dez has actually been targetted one more time - and has the exact same number of receptions.
Let's talk YAC, shall we? YAC Facts You see DT right there at number 3 - behind Harvin and Welker. Pretty solid company. Dez the almighty? If you're having a hard time finding his name, that's because it's on the 2nd page - right next the the "67" - right between 36 year old Tony Gonzalez and 32 year old Anquan Boldin.
And please stop with the "Manning is throwing DT the ball" stuff. 3 of DTs 8 100+ yard receiving games were with Tim "I Can't Replace Mark Sanchez" Tebow. And if anyone even suggests that Dez has to split looks with Austin - that should tell you something - and Decker is pretty good too.
In a league I am in, DT is WR5 - Dez is WR16. That simply once again simply shows that Dez's upside is what DT is already doing - and let's not forget that DT is doing so after an injury many didn't think he would even be able to come back from.
How this is a conversation - let alone one that some think favors Bryant is amazing to me.
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EBF
Footballguy
DT is a victim of his own ability. He's so good that he makes everything look easy. It's like a varsity player scrimmaging against freshman. Sometimes it doesn't even look like he's trying. When you have that combination of size and mobility, the game is easy. You don't need to make leaping catches in traffic when you can shed any DB off the line and get 3 yards of separation like it's the simplest thing in the world.
ItsOnlytheRiver
Footballguy
Is this a serious post?
TakiToki
Footballguy
Thomas is a freak of nature, and Bryant (while extremely athletically gifted) is not quite at that level. Bryant is a much more natural and fluid receiver, though. As far as the future, there isn't much of a ceiling for either of them. However, neither of them is winning any tough guy awards any time soon.
Xue
Footballguy
These plays by Thomas don't wow you?http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000086785/Thomas-leaping-41-yard-catchhttp://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000077918/Thomas-30-yard-one-handed-catchhttp://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap1000000078036/Thomas-38-yard-catchhttp://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000092774/Thomas-32-yard-catchhttp://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000080696/Thomas-29-yd-TDhttp://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap1000000063533/Week-2-Can-t-Miss-Thomas-tip-toes-a-touchdownhttp://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/0ap2000000067999/QB-Manning-to-WR-Thomas-25-yd-passhttp://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/0ap2000000060786/QB-Manning-to-WR-Thomas-71-yd-pass-TD
Just think about that?
What "other" WR's did Peyton Manning have in Indy? I don't think there's really anything to think about there. Of course Harrison and Wayne are the only other WR's to haveb1,400 yards with Manning were those two...he had nobody else.
DoubleG
Footballguy
As serious as all the ones saying "I know the actual facts point to DT, but Bryant looks better to me on this one play...plus I own Bryant, so he's better."If you would like to put forth any actual facts that refute my points above, feel free.
ItsOnlytheRiver
Footballguy
I like both guys. I just can't believe some of the things in your post. Like using 'Simply' after comparing their 2012 fantasy scoring as if it really is this simple. Then in the same paragraph dropping an injury excuse all while ignoring that Dez was hurt for a few games this year. It's a conversation because they are both young and really talented and showing its full potential this year. Posts like yours are hard to take seriously because they show an obvious bias. Too many Dez haters around here.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I think Double G's main point is dead on, though: Thomas is already playing AND producing at a high level week to week; Bryant is not.
Granted, the fantasy numbers do not always mean a lot, especially with WRs (unless someone really thinks that Larry Fitzgerald is only the 20something best WR), but in the case of young WRs Thomas and Bryant, Thomas has clearly outperformed to date.
Granted, the fantasy numbers do not always mean a lot, especially with WRs (unless someone really thinks that Larry Fitzgerald is only the 20something best WR), but in the case of young WRs Thomas and Bryant, Thomas has clearly outperformed to date.
pump the brakes
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Both the eyeball test and statistics backup Thomas.
Billy Ball Thorton
Footballguy
AJ Green>>>>>>>>>>>>DT>>Dez
ItsOnlytheRiver
Footballguy
I dunno. Dez has been performing at a pretty high level as well. His stats are brought down by a couple weeks where he played through injury and was used as a decoy. Other than that he's been pretty consistent.'Ghost Rider said:
EBF
Footballguy
Green does one thing better than DT, and that's make spectacular catches in traffic. DT is better in every other way. Green's value is inflated because a flukishly high number of his catches have been TDs. Unless he's the best WR in NFL history, he's not going to average a TD every game. The TDs will drop and then people will realize that the gap between him and a guy like DT is imaginary. DT has 57 catches for 933 yards on 85 targets.Green has 64 catches for 911 yards on 104 targets. I know that some people will chalk this up to the Manning factor, and that's one way to frame the stats if you want to believe that Green >>>> DT, but I don't think the evidence really supports the widespread belief that Green is a tier apart. DT is doing more with less.
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Otis
Footballguy
Wtf is "Bay Bay"?
Otis
Footballguy
I've never witnessed this "amazing" athleticism of Bryant. He's not that big or strong or fast either. What's the hype for?
Otis
Footballguy
Seriously?
I am a big Dez proponent and have him in many dynasty and redraft leagues, but I would rather have DT.
I think we can all agree that after watching Fitz go through three different QBs this year, that QB play is important for a WR. Romo has locked on to Dez for stretches, that is great for production and hopefully W's for DAL. DT has Peyton. I am going out on a limb and say Peyton and Romo have the same shelf life (Romo's style may be akin to Favre, but he has missed more time because of injuries).
So for now, I would say the QB difference is a wash. I prefer DT because I still perceive Dez as a headcase that could lead to God only knows... if he has a year or two incident free, then maybe my concerns will be allayed.
FWIW, I see DT as Top 6 and Dez Top 10, so we are not talking that much difference
I think we can all agree that after watching Fitz go through three different QBs this year, that QB play is important for a WR. Romo has locked on to Dez for stretches, that is great for production and hopefully W's for DAL. DT has Peyton. I am going out on a limb and say Peyton and Romo have the same shelf life (Romo's style may be akin to Favre, but he has missed more time because of injuries).
So for now, I would say the QB difference is a wash. I prefer DT because I still perceive Dez as a headcase that could lead to God only knows... if he has a year or two incident free, then maybe my concerns will be allayed.
FWIW, I see DT as Top 6 and Dez Top 10, so we are not talking that much difference
Otis
Footballguy
I owned both DT and Dez in dynasty (along with VJax and Colston). I recently traded away Dez for an upgrade at TE (Aaron Hernandez).
I've had to look at both of them all season long and consider starts and sits. I never once considered benching DT. Dez? He is religiously a headache. I'll start him, he'll put up a total dud; I'll sit him, he'll catch 2 TDs and have a monster game. He's a nightmare to own in fantasy, and despite watching him a bunch this year, I didn't see anything that was all THAT impressive about him. He looks like a pretty good receiver. He'll probably finish in the top 20 this year. Will he ever be a top 5 candidate, which is what DT is right this moment? I don't know, I suppose maybe. But he's not -- despite all the wishing going on in this thread -- a receiver with Calvin Johnson or TO potential or ceiling. Those guys are absolute physical beasts of specimens. If anything, DT is a better comparison to them both. Dez's ceiling is what DT is already doing consistently. Why would anyone consider them to be equal??
I've had to look at both of them all season long and consider starts and sits. I never once considered benching DT. Dez? He is religiously a headache. I'll start him, he'll put up a total dud; I'll sit him, he'll catch 2 TDs and have a monster game. He's a nightmare to own in fantasy, and despite watching him a bunch this year, I didn't see anything that was all THAT impressive about him. He looks like a pretty good receiver. He'll probably finish in the top 20 this year. Will he ever be a top 5 candidate, which is what DT is right this moment? I don't know, I suppose maybe. But he's not -- despite all the wishing going on in this thread -- a receiver with Calvin Johnson or TO potential or ceiling. Those guys are absolute physical beasts of specimens. If anything, DT is a better comparison to them both. Dez's ceiling is what DT is already doing consistently. Why would anyone consider them to be equal??
William Munny
Footballguy
Can't believe the way some people talk about Dez. Seen him play enough times too. I'm really not seeing the freakish talent that some are.
SSOG
Moderator
Demaryius's nickname.
He played with one or the other or both his entire career, not sure why that should matter.
William Munny
Footballguy
SSOG
Moderator
I didn't pick it, he's had it since he was a kid. Apparently his day's nickname was "Boo Boo", so people started calling Demaryius "Bay Bay" as a sort of tribute.
Donsmith753
Footballguy
Let's not lock this just yet
