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thoughts on McNabb? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Bri
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Dr. Malo
Footballguy
If you are asking about the sports hernia.....
He should be back to normal. i personally had a sports hernia, and have treated patients with sports hernias. It is not a major injury, it's just painful, and becomes more and more painful the longer you play and not let it heal or get it fixed.
How will his production be? With Westbrook back, and a few of their receivers stepping up, he should be back as a top 6 Qb in my best estimate. A lot depends on what happens in preseason. But a stud qb usually plays well regardless of who is around him.
He should be back to normal. i personally had a sports hernia, and have treated patients with sports hernias. It is not a major injury, it's just painful, and becomes more and more painful the longer you play and not let it heal or get it fixed.
How will his production be? With Westbrook back, and a few of their receivers stepping up, he should be back as a top 6 Qb in my best estimate. A lot depends on what happens in preseason. But a stud qb usually plays well regardless of who is around him.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
In 73 career games without Owens, McNabb has thrown 89 TD or a rate of 1.219 per game. That would give him 19.5 over a full 16-game season. We can debate the talent level of his receiving options and how well he will do, but that is the baseline to work off of IMO.
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David Yudkin
Footballguy
McNabb has not run nearly as much since he returned from his broken ankle in 2002.
thewaterboys
Footballguy
Bob Grotz, of the Delaware County Times, reports Philadelphia Eagles QB Donovan McNabb (hernia) was able to dunk and run during a celebrity basketball game. McNabb looked fit and rehabilitated from an injury plagued 2005 season. McNabb said, "I feel better. I mean, I'm still not 100 percent but yet I'm still able to do a lot of different things and I'm just taking full advantage of this opportunity of doing something different besides football." McNabb will continue to have his annual workout with teammates in Arizona.
Taken from KFFL
Taken from KFFL
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Through 2002, McNabb averaged 18.7 ppg. From 2003 to present, he's averaged 20.2 ppg. But IMO Owens had a lot to do with that. McNabb averaged 23.85 ppg in games that he played with Owens.Rushing wise, McNabb averaged 5.04 in rushing ppg vs. 2.63 rushing ppg post ankle fracture.
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Julio Igleosaurus
Footballguy
He's trying to figure out what to do with all of that Chunky soup and which of his commercial moms is his real mom.
Bizkiteer
Footballguy
I think he's a good guy despite his obnoxious soup commercials. Hopefully they will stop now and we'll get to see one of the jokers from the Steelers or Seahawks doing the same horrible commercials.
BTW - I'm interested in seeing what they do w/ their other WR spot or how Pinkston recovers. Though TO is gone, I expect McNabb to still put up good numbers and remain in the QB top 5. He did it before TO and can do it after.
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I'm not convinced of that. If you look at the second half of his 2003 season, his numbers are very close to his 2004-2005 averages. It was the first half of 2003 that dragged his numbers down, when he was still recovering from injury.IMHO, the only concern about McNabb's numbers is his injury history/risk.
Texasmouth
Footballguy
My thoughts exactly, I think Reggie Brown is the real deal and he will make some strides this year but he is still a year or so away from double digit TD.
u999spf
Footballguy
I think McNabb will be able to stay pretty healthy this season and with that I think he will throw between 20-23TD's and run for 1-3 TD's and throw for about 3000-3200 yds with the WR crew he has now.
I see Reggie Brown improving this season and should be a decent #2, great #3 WR for Fantasy Football purposes.
If the Eagles could pull a draft day trade for Javon Walker, I see McNabb's numbers increasing to 24-28TDs, 3600yds.
edit to add: w/o #1WR - 6-10 in QB's, w/#1 WR (Walker) back in the top 3 QB's.
I see Reggie Brown improving this season and should be a decent #2, great #3 WR for Fantasy Football purposes.
If the Eagles could pull a draft day trade for Javon Walker, I see McNabb's numbers increasing to 24-28TDs, 3600yds.
edit to add: w/o #1WR - 6-10 in QB's, w/#1 WR (Walker) back in the top 3 QB's.
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Jedimaster21
Footballguy
Where exactly do you get these opinions and facts from? Donovan is the unquestioned leader on the Eagles, and one of the most popular athletes in Philadelphia's history. When healthy and without Owens, he has put up top 10 numbers, and he is a much better QB, with more weapons than he had every year except the last two. I personally think the Eagles offense will be just as good as when they had Owens, and they will have to rely more on McNabb to make plays. IMO, he will finish top 5 if he stays healthy, and is an excellent fantasy option. Now, when I analyze your statement from a NFL perspective, rather than a fantasy angle, it becomes somewhat ridiculous. McNabb is the face of the Eagles, the unquestioned leader, and one of the most talented players in all of football. What exactly would they be shopping for as an improvement? Tom Brady or Peyton Manning? I would have to say Brady is a better QB, but Manning has been unable to get his team to the Superbowl with a lot more talent surrounding him on offense. And it hasn't been the defense that lost those playoff games the last few years. And by the way, when teams blitz McNabb, and the play breaks down, that is when he is the most dangerous...
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Death and Taxes
Footballguy
"Donovan is the unquestioned leader on the Eagles, "
"McNabb is the face of the Eagles, the unquestioned leader"
These are overstatements. My guess is that you do not live in Philadelphia. McNabb's leadership skills have been nothing but questioned in the past few years. He handled the whole TO incident poorly and has not stepped up as a leader. Waiting months after the season was over to make ridiculous statements about the T.O. thing as a "black on black crime".
Over the years, Hugh Douglas and Brian Dawkins stepped up to lead when the Eagles needed team leadership in the locker room. McNabb is often aloof making goofy statements, faces and smiling when his team is getting beat down.
That being said, McNabb is extremely talented and there are only a handful of QBs that I would replace him with..........however he has not been a leader for the Eagles.
"McNabb is the face of the Eagles, the unquestioned leader"
These are overstatements. My guess is that you do not live in Philadelphia. McNabb's leadership skills have been nothing but questioned in the past few years. He handled the whole TO incident poorly and has not stepped up as a leader. Waiting months after the season was over to make ridiculous statements about the T.O. thing as a "black on black crime".
Over the years, Hugh Douglas and Brian Dawkins stepped up to lead when the Eagles needed team leadership in the locker room. McNabb is often aloof making goofy statements, faces and smiling when his team is getting beat down.
That being said, McNabb is extremely talented and there are only a handful of QBs that I would replace him with..........however he has not been a leader for the Eagles.
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
McNabb goes back to pre-TO stats without all the extra rushing stats to boost up his fantasy worth. I see him as a "dime a dozen" type QB that will rank 8-10, but will go too high in drafts.
cstu
Footballguy
Without Owens he has finished as the 5, 8, 13 and 13 QB. I'm going to venture he'll finish somewhere between 5 and 13, probabl closer to 13 since he doesn't run as much.The lack of TO doesn't concern me that much since McNabb had 300 yards the week after TO was suspended. I think he'll put up about 3500 yards and 20 TD's.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
McNabb never had a season with 3,500 passing yards in any season without Owens. His high was 3,365 his first full year as a starter back in 2000.I think a lot will depend on whether the Eagles are closer version 2005 (3rd in passing attempts, 30th in rushing attempts) or the 2002 version (18th in passing attempts and 5th in rushing attempts). Either way, I don't see McNabb running the ball as much as the early days, so if the Eagles rank bottom half of the league in passing attempts, McNabb IMO becomes a ho hum run of the mill fantasy option. If the team (without any proven top WR options) does air it out, I'd probably put McNabb in the bottom mid to bottom of the Top 10.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I would not touch Culpepper at all this year. Too risky. let someone else take the risk. And I don't see him running anything more than a no-other-options-available scramble, a kneel down, and MAYBE a couple QB sneaks.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
IMO, McNabb has had too many injuries to risk him being involved in planned running plays. He likely would rather throw the ball away now than scamper to try to make a few yards. Once in a while he might tuck the ball away and scramble for a first down, but I think the days of him getting regularly fantasy points from his rushing prowess will no longer be counted on as a sure thing. I think you have to look at him as getting his passing stats and anything from running the ball should be considered gravy as opposed to the old days when you knew he'd still get you 5 points on the ground pretty regularly.
cstu
Footballguy
That's right, but I don't give all the credit for his stats to TO. He's a much better QB than he was prior to TO. Also, last year TO only caught 6 out of McNabb's 19 TD's so it's not as if McNabb wasn't able to spread the ball around. Reggie Brown really came on once TO was gone and Greg Lewis is a very good possession receiver, not to mention Westbrook out of the backfield. Westbrook and McNabb work very well together and I think that along with Brown's development will be enough for McNabb to easily reach the 3200 yards he has 3 times without TO and have a good shot at 3500 or more.
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David Yudkin
Footballguy
Obviously a case can be made to take any player if he falls far enough. But I would not want to draft C-Pep with any intentions of needing to start him.I think a lot of people are not fully aware that players trying to come back from serious injury (perhaps even trying to come back too soon) are normally a fraction of their usual selves. They may try to gut it out, but normally they do not produce close to what they did previously.If a player had an extensive time off to rest and recover, that's a little different, but when someone tries to come back in 9 months in what is supposed to be a 12-18 month recovery window, I'd be leary. (I don't know the exact timetable for Culpepper and was only using my example without applying it to anyone in particular.)As for Culpepper, he will be transitioning to a new team without the ability to have even practiced much with his new teammates and in an entirely new system. I'm guessing that that can't be considered a good thing.I was just in a draft and Culpepper went as the #14 QB. IMO, that's too soon for my liking, and good luck to the owner that got him. If someone wants to take a flyer and roster him late on the hope that he might pitch in some later in the season, fine. But if someone wants him as a mid round steal to be their QB1, I think that team will be looking at a world of hurt.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I do think that the Iggles need to solidify their ground game if they want to get back to the playoffs. How that would impact their passing production, I have no idea. Passing a ton usually does not run much time off the clock, and many times that leads to wearing down your defense. If the Eagles went back to the three-headed hydra at RB they had a few years ago, they could chew up a lot of yards and keep their defense off the field. But who really knows what they will do. Westbrook + Moats + someone like LenDale White would make for an interesting set of backs to work with . . .
Texasmouth
Footballguy
I think it is easy for people to forget what a force McNabb has been in fantasy circles. Even without T.O. I bet he is top three. Especially with Palmer coming off of a MAJOR injury, C-Pepp probably isn't playing. He is easily as good as Brady or Hass. I would take McNabb as the second best with no Palmer or the third best with Palmer #2.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I could easily see these guys outproducing McNabb (which is not to say there won't be other surprise candidates):Bulger, Brady, Manning, Hasselbeck, Manning, Bledsoe, Leftwich
and that left off Palmer altogether.
As I mentioned earlier, McNabb averaged more than 5 ppg higher with Owens in the lineup. Maybe it's a coincednce, maybe not. But if you knock off the difference, he'd go from the #1 QB in 2005 (based on PPG) to in the range of the QB15.
Let me ask you point blank -- what do you make of his Jeckyl-and-Hyde 2003 season? You keep saying that he was 5 PPG less without Owens in the past three years, but almost all of that difference is attributable to the first half of 2003
er game averages:all 10 g 2002: 229 yards passing, 46 yards rushing, 2.3 TD
1st half 2003: 123 yards passing, 24 yards rushing, 0.4 TD
2d half 2003: 290 yards passing, 21 yards rushing, 2 TD
w/TO 2004: 274 yards passing, 16 yards rushing, 2.4 TD
w/TO 2005: 290 yards passing, 3 yards rushing, 2.1 TD
Looks like it's not the lack of TO that brought his numbers down, it's some lingering injury or other issue for half of 2003.
Sweetness_34
Footballguy
I would draft all of these QBs before I touch Mcnafro this year (in no particular order below but all of these will have better FF #s than Mcnabb for the average draft positions they will be drafted at.). Someone else can take Mcnabb this year. I see tons of value later on.
Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
Drew Bledsoe
Tom Brady
Aaron Brooks
Matt Hasselback
Carson Palmer
David Carr
Kurt Warner
Marc Bulger
Mark Brunell
Jake Delhomme
Ben Rothlisberger
Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
Drew Bledsoe
Tom Brady
Aaron Brooks
Matt Hasselback
Carson Palmer
David Carr
Kurt Warner
Marc Bulger
Mark Brunell
Jake Delhomme
Ben Rothlisberger
Dieselskid
Footballguy
WOW...that's mindblowing.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I don't have an airtight explanation, but it was likely a combination of several things . . . return from injury, change in play calling philosophy, injuries to other players, game situations, who knows.I suppose each individual will have to ponder if McNabb doing better in 2004 and 2005 was a direct result of Owens coming to town or if it coincided with Owens coming to town.Let me ask you point blank -- what do you make of his Jeckyl-and-Hyde 2003 season? You keep saying that he was 5 PPG less without Owens in the past three years, but almost all of that difference is attributable to the first half of 2003
all 10 g 2002: 229 yards passing, 46 yards rushing, 2.3 TD
1st half 2003: 123 yards passing, 24 yards rushing, 0.4 TD
2d half 2003: 290 yards passing, 21 yards rushing, 2 TD
w/TO 2004: 274 yards passing, 16 yards rushing, 2.4 TD
w/TO 2005: 290 yards passing, 3 yards rushing, 2.1 TD
Looks like it's not the lack of TO that brought his numbers down, it's some lingering injury or other issue for half of 2003.
As I mentioned earlier, I think a lot will depend on whether the Eagles want to try to reestablish a running game and if they stay committed to running the ball for more than a couple games.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
Has anyone mentioned that McNabb was playing like crap before his injury last year?
Now with his leadership (or lack there of) in question, this is a big year for McNabb. Some might say a make or break year.
Now with his leadership (or lack there of) in question, this is a big year for McNabb. Some might say a make or break year.
ruelvis
Footballguy
as a philly resident, i found it amusing how Jon Runyan and Freddie Mitchell caught little or no slack for calling their 'leader' McNabb out on his puking & hyperventillating (spelling?) incident and putrid execution of the two minute offense in the super bowl, but when TO mentions something the whole world paints him as a troublemaker. Sure, TO's issues are cumulative and not the result of one single incident but saying that McNabb is the unquestioned leader is ridiculous. TO led by example with his nothing-short-of-amazing comeback and performance in the Super Bowl. If McNabb was 1/2 the leader he's painted to be by some in this post, he would have called TO directly or had a players only meeting once he came back to the team. it never would have escalated to the point it did. The 'black on black crime' thing is so ridiculous it doesnt even warrant commentary, but i'd find it hard to believe any of his teammates called him to voice their sympathy for him when they heard about it.Most fans also forget that McNabb is the one who went out of his way to sell management, his teammates, fans and the coaching staff on TO despite his track record of being a troublemaker in SF. A lack of a big time WR was supposedly the only reason they lost to carolina in the conference finals. That first year he and TO did all kindsa interviews together where McPuke proclaimed that he had no concerns about Owens, how well they get along etc. Once things got a little sketchy he was nowhere to be found. Granted, TO never shoulda signed a contract if he knew it would be unfair 12 months later, but he did what he had to do to get out of baltimore and his downfall came when he wasnt willing to live with the consequences of his decision...but this post isnt about TO but Mcnabb...
Yeah - McNabb is talented but he'll be overdrafted in every league this year. He will be on the cover of some magazines and odds are that somebody will take him in the first two rounds while the rest of us nab a solid rb or wr and pick up much better value at qb later in the draft.
Eagles defensive struggles, Reid's reluctance to run the ball, lack of a tough yards rb, and the rest of the defenses in the division no longer being the cakewalk they were in 02, 03 and 04 all factor into his not being worth a top pick.
Slider
Footballguy
McChoke is in the most efficient O for a QB and can barely get it done. His career 58% shows that. 90% of them were dumpoffs to a RB or TE his 1st 3 years. Sure, with Westbrook, TO and that O he crossed 60% one year. Not very good considering other WCO QB's.
If he was drafted by Cleveland or Cincy in 99 he would be flipping your next burger.
If he was drafted by Cleveland or Cincy in 99 he would be flipping your next burger.
T
trader jake
Guest
a QB doesn't lose a stud WR and get better fantasy wise. there is almost no chance that mcnabb replicates his 2004 stats in 2006 and i would be very surprised if he justifies a pick in the first 7 rounds in a redraft leagueno TO, health concerns, no stud receiving option, better run/pass ratio from reid, limited running production from mcnabb himself, and a possible goal-line RB addition in the draft = fantasy disappointment this year for mcnabb
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