tie breaker ***yeah I know*** but which way should (1 Viewer)

[djkidd]

I saw the suggestion of seeing how all of the teams in the tiebreaker did head-to-head for the whole regular season. In my league's situation, we have 4 teams vying for three spots. So I set up a spread sheet that ranked all four teams from 1 to 4 (with 4 being if you had the highest score amongst those four teams for that week), thinking that the team with the highest cumulative ranking would get the tiebreaker. But then I noticed that the team that won more weeks didn't have the highest cumulative ranking score. So now I don't know if I should use the highest cumulative ranking score or take the team that won the most weeks since this is a head to head deal. I can come up with valid arguments either way, so I was hoping some other opinions would be helpful. And trust me, after this season, it's gonna be put in the rules...and I have to do it this way this year because what we have in the rules now won't work for the situation we have this year.

TIA

 

[The Jerk]

I'd be interested in seeing what rules you do have in place. Even if it doesn't work for this year, perhaps it can guide the suggestions from the board.

My first thought is that even though there are four teams in the tiebreaker, the first step is to break the ties within the same division. For example, if two of the four teams are in one division, and the other two are in another division, then you would start breaking ties by the teams in the same division, then compare the top team from each division to figure out who gets the highest seed. Then the process starts anew with the remaining three teams. Eventually, you'd be down to two teams, break that tie and you're finished.

Of course, this is how the NFL does it and how my leagues operate as well. Unless your league specifies this approach, you may not be able to use it. On the other hand, if your league doesn't specify anything, I'd suggest following the NFL model is not completely without basis.

Good luck, and post the rules if you have it, even if you know they are insufficient to resolve this situation.

 

[my man otis]

In my league the first tiebreaker is HTH. If there are three teams that have each beaten each other for example (circular tie, A beats B lost to C, B beat C lost to A, C beats A lost to B) I then to go the 2nd tiebreaker, which is total points. that usually takes care of it.

 

[JBTV]

Total points for the season is usually the best way to go. Some people use division record and the like as the NFL does, but I think that's just kind of a random way to do it because divisions don't really mean anything in FFL. Reward the team that scored the most points, which is really the goal of FFL.

 

[djkidd]

I'd be interested in seeing what rules you do have in place. Even if it doesn't work for this year, perhaps it can guide the suggestions from the board.My first thought is that even though there are four teams in the tiebreaker, the first step is to break the ties within the same division. For example, if two of the four teams are in one division, and the other two are in another division, then you would start breaking ties by the teams in the same division, then compare the top team from each division to figure out who gets the highest seed. Then the process starts anew with the remaining three teams. Eventually, you'd be down to two teams, break that tie and you're finished.Of course, this is how the NFL does it and how my leagues operate as well. Unless your league specifies this approach, you may not be able to use it. On the other hand, if your league doesn't specify anything, I'd suggest following the NFL model is not completely without basis.Good luck, and post the rules if you have it, even if you know they are insufficient to resolve this situation.

Our league rules state this:Ties will be allowed in the regular season. The regular season standings tiebreakers will be: 1. Winning percentage. 2. Head to head. 3. Division winning percentage. 4. Division points. 5. Head to head points 6. Total points. But tiebreakers for the playoff games will be: 1. Head to head. 2. Overall points. 3. Head to head points 4. Division RecordThis is a 12 team 3 - 4 team divisions where you play 6 division games and 7 out of division games, which means there is one team that each team won't play against. Well, this year if the teams that are tied are teams, 1, 2, 3, 4, then teams 1 and 4 didn't play each other this year. They all have the same record and they all have the same division records and there's not one team that has a clear tie breaker. We've been lucky and never really had to go this deep before with tie breakers and so it was pretty easy. But this year has been a monster which is why I'm asking this. It actually would have been worse had Stallworth scored another TD...then we would have had another team in the same boat.We actually took these rules from another league. So I was under the impression that the playoff tiebreaker rules were for playoff games, not to decide who made the playoffs. But I guess the more I think about this...the playoff tiebreakers would be to decide who makes the playoffs, right?

 

[The Jerk]

I'd be interested in seeing what rules you do have in place. Even if it doesn't work for this year, perhaps it can guide the suggestions from the board.

My first thought is that even though there are four teams in the tiebreaker, the first step is to break the ties within the same division. For example, if two of the four teams are in one division, and the other two are in another division, then you would start breaking ties by the teams in the same division, then compare the top team from each division to figure out who gets the highest seed. Then the process starts anew with the remaining three teams. Eventually, you'd be down to two teams, break that tie and you're finished.

Of course, this is how the NFL does it and how my leagues operate as well. Unless your league specifies this approach, you may not be able to use it. On the other hand, if your league doesn't specify anything, I'd suggest following the NFL model is not completely without basis.

Good luck, and post the rules if you have it, even if you know they are insufficient to resolve this situation.

Our league rules state this:Ties will be allowed in the regular season. The regular season standings tiebreakers will be:

1. Winning percentage.

2. Head to head.

3. Division winning percentage.

4. Division points.

5. Head to head points

6. Total points.

But tiebreakers for the playoff games will be:

1. Head to head.

2. Overall points.

3. Head to head points

4. Division Record

This is a 12 team 3 - 4 team divisions where you play 6 division games and 7 out of division games, which means there is one team that each team won't play against. Well, this year if the teams that are tied are teams, 1, 2, 3, 4, then teams 1 and 4 didn't play each other this year. They all have the same record and they all have the same division records and there's not one team that has a clear tie breaker. We've been lucky and never really had to go this deep before with tie breakers and so it was pretty easy. But this year has been a monster which is why I'm asking this. It actually would have been worse had Stallworth scored another TD...then we would have had another team in the same boat.

We actually took these rules from another league. So I was under the impression that the playoff tiebreaker rules were for playoff games, not to decide who made the playoffs. But I guess the more I think about this...the playoff tiebreakers would be to decide who makes the playoffs, right?

I read those rules to mean that the regular season tiebreakers apply to this current situation, and the playoff tiebreakers will decide who advances if a playoff game ends in a tie. Otherwise, there would be no point to having regular season tiebreakers.For the record, I would strongly recommend the division tiebreakers (items 3 and 4) should only apply to breaking ties between teams within the same division. If teams are from different divisions, only items 1, 2, 5 and 6 should apply. Of course, for this season you may need to follow the rules as written, poor or not.

At least two of the four teams must play in the same division if there are three divisions. Break that tie first. Then compare the three teams that are left to determine who advances first. It seems like the choice for tiebreaker comes down to division points vs. total points. Logically, it should be total points given all of the circumstances.

Once you figure out who advances first, follow the same process to choose the second team out of the three remaining teams. Finally, compare the two remaining teams to pick the final qualifier.

I understand the faction of FF owners/commissioners who argue that total points is the best arbiter of team strength. However, that only makes complete sense if you eliminate all head-to-head games. The purpose of head-to-head games is to emulate the NFL, and emulating the NFL logically extends to using its tiebreaker procedures. NFL tiebreakers

From another thread...

The "total points is the best" philosophy is all well and good... but not everyone wants to be in an exclusive total points league. I actually prefer leagues that are setup as a hybrid of total points and head-to-head formats. I agree with the thought that the total points champion is typically the best team (although sometimes they may not be the most consistent team in the league), and it irritates me when I have the most points but finish 5-9 (2004 season).

However, if you play in a head-to-head format, it is reasonable to use head-to-head (NFL style) tiebreakers for that component of your league. Using tiebreakers similar to the NFL best follows the spirit of the competition.

Expanding the scope of this discussion... as far as league setup is concerned, my favorite leagues have three levels of competition: traditional head-to-head, total season points, and weekly high points.

The head-to-head caters to the reason many of us were drawn to this hobby in the first place -- competition that most closely mirrors the NFL in a fantasy setup and a chance to have bragging rights over your fellow owners. In a convoluted way, even the idiosynchrasies of scheduling matches the real game in that the NFL is not a level playing field when it comes to scheduling difficulty. For example, the 1999 Rams won the Super Bowl despite not winning a regular season game against a playoff team. Think that might have helped them that year?

Season total points provides the best measure of pure team strength and rewards owners independent of scheduling nuances. I agree that it is the best format for limiting the luck factor but it can be somewhat uninteresting if one team jumps out to a big lead and virtually clinches the title sometime in November.

Weekly high points is the easiest and best way to keep teams interested during the latter stages of a season even if they are already out of the head-to-head playoffs and way behind in season total points. It also gives the Sunday and Monday night games a little extra kick by making every team compete with each other for the weekly prizes.

Leagues including all three competitive formats make virtually every game matter on some level. In one league, I got eliminated when Darrell Jackson got tackled at the 1-yard line on Sunday night. While it's brutal to miss the playoffs by a yard, I can get some consolation if my team holds on to its 2nd place weekly score during MNF. Ultimately, to each his own, but there are many ways to enjoy this game...

Finally, for what it's worth, my fusion of NFL emulation with FF reality is this set of tiebreakers to be applied any time two or more teams have the same winning percentage:1. Head to head

2. Division record (if teams from same division)

3. Total points scored

4. Total points allowed

5. Coin flip/random number

Ties are broken within divisions first, then broken across divisions.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

Our league rules state this:Ties will be allowed in the regular season. The regular season standings tiebreakers will be: 1. Winning percentage. 2. Head to head. 3. Division winning percentage. 4. Division points. 5. Head to head points 6. Total points. But tiebreakers for the playoff games will be: 1. Head to head. 2. Overall points. 3. Head to head points 4. Division RecordThis is a 12 team 3 - 4 team divisions where you play 6 division games and 7 out of division games, which means there is one team that each team won't play against. Well, this year if the teams that are tied are teams, 1, 2, 3, 4, then teams 1 and 4 didn't play each other this year. They all have the same record and they all have the same division records and there's not one team that has a clear tie breaker. We've been lucky and never really had to go this deep before with tie breakers and so it was pretty easy. But this year has been a monster which is why I'm asking this. It actually would have been worse had Stallworth scored another TD...then we would have had another team in the same boat.We actually took these rules from another league. So I was under the impression that the playoff tiebreaker rules were for playoff games, not to decide who made the playoffs. But I guess the more I think about this...the playoff tiebreakers would be to decide who makes the playoffs, right?

 

[The Jerk]

djkidd,

One more twist you could use for next year would be to go to four 3-team divisions. Each team plays in division twice and out of division once. It might seem weird at first but it avoids having two teams not play each other if you want to end your regular season in Week 13.

Of course, you also could go to a 14-game regular season and four playoff teams...