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Tiki a HOFer? (1 Viewer)

M

Mikeyburns

Footballguy
Let me first admit that I am a NY homer so I may be a bit biased in my opinions. What I want to know is if you guys think Tiki is a HOFer if this was his last season? If you dont think so, what more from his career would he need to most likely make it.IMO he is not a HOFer yet but Id say 2 more years of 1000+ rushing would get him in. That would put him over the coveted 10,000 yds rushing for his career along with boatload of receiving yds for a RB. He tends to get overlooked alot as one of the premier RBs, especially in a fantasy perspective, but year after year for the last 5 he has been a stud. Yes he did have fumbling problems but he has also seemed to correct that issue as well. He also needs to get a ring which would help his cause a ton bc that seems to weigh alot in the voters opinions.What are the sharks thoughts?MT

 
In my opinion, a HOF player is one that helps shape and/or change the game. Whether it be the way it is played, the way it is viewed by fans, or something similar. Tiki is a great RB, and more specifically, a great "football guy." Does that make him a HOF guy? I don't think so, but think the other things you stipulated would put him more in that direction, if he could become more dominant.

 
No way, but if he has a prolonged career he may be able to make a good case with his total yardage numbers. And nobody likes Tiki more than I do.

 
People are somewhat missing out on the fact that the current era of football has seen an explosion of increased stats. There are way more players putting up numbers that players in other eras did not often approach.In terms of history, the HOF voters have traditionally elected a very select few at any position that were from the same era (or close to it).In the Tiki era, there's been . . .FaulkMartinBettisEmmittThurman ThomasBarber is #29 on the all-time rushing list but could jump up to 23rd by the end of the year.Other current players include Edge, Dillon, LT, Alexander, Holmes (if he keeps at it) and a few others that could be where Barber is now in a few years.For the most part, the HOF has only taken 3-5 elite players at a position from a given era. Even if you put some of these guys in different eras (although I can't see how), Barber should be pretty far down the list unless he *REALLY* keeps up an insane level of production for several more years AND/OR starts compiling SB rings. Given that he is already 30, one has to wonder how long he can keep up the pace he has established the past few years . . .

 
I'm a huge Giant fan and love Tiki. He has no shot at the HOF (3 more seasons of 2000 total yds would at least open up discussion, though).

 
I can't tell if this is a serious question. I am tempted to think it's a joke, since the answer is so obviously no.From pro-football-reference.com, here are his ranks in the top 50 in relevant categories:Among the league's all-time top 50Rushes: 35Rushing yards: 29Yards from scrimmage: 29tNot even in the top 25 in any significant category yet. Not even top 50 in TDs.He has played in one Pro Bowl.Absolutely no chance, given his age.

 
Not a HOF'er, but it's very safe to say that no one will wear #21 in a Giants uniform again. He has very easily been the MVP of the Giants for quite some time.

 
I can't tell if this is a serious question. I am tempted to think it's a joke, since the answer is so obviously no.

From pro-football-reference.com, here are his ranks in the top 50 in relevant categories:

Among the league's all-time top 50

Rushes: 35

Rushing yards: 29

Yards from scrimmage: 29t

Not even in the top 25 in any significant category yet. Not even top 50 in TDs.

He has played in one Pro Bowl.

Absolutely no chance, given his age.
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True, but by the end of next year he should rank in the top 15 in total yards from scrimmage and could easily end his career in the top 10.
 
What would it take?Going back in time and recovering a good number of those fumbles would be a good starting point

 
Not a HOF'er, but it's very safe to say that no one will wear #21 in a Giants uniform again. He has very easily been the MVP of the Giants for quite some time.
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Agreed.IF he got 2000 total yards in the next 2 years with 15 TDs AND the giants win the big one, maybe he's got an outside shot but I still don't think so.

 
Tiki's only made the pro bowl once. I think he's one of the better rush/rec backs ever but not the greatest....he's up there. 500+ career receptions is nothing to sneeze at from a RB.1500 last year1200 in 12 games this year, he's doing well. I just don't think it'll ever be enough.If not for Emmitt being a pro bowl lock, and him being the other NY runningback(Curtis) he'd certainly have more notoriety but Hall of Fame? Nah.

 
Tiki has a couple big things working against him:(1) He has been underappreciated for what he has done, even now in some circles (which I can't understand)(2) He did not carry the full load (nor had the body to at the time) untill recently.If Tiki had 3 more seasons like this and last year, then you would absolutley have him in the conversation. He is playing right now, since he got over the fumbling issue, at a HoF level.However, even for a RB, you have to be at a HoF level for 7 years really, or close to it. If you are AMAZING like a Sayers you get an exception - but even Terrell Davis had more "great" years than Tiki and he doesnt deserve the hall.Now, on the outside shot that Tiki can get say 4-5 more years, 3-4 of them at 2000 total yards production, THEN you have something.Butt hat is asking an awful lot from a 30 year old RB that, low mileage perhaps, probably doesnt want to play that long.

 
In an interesting twist, especially considering Tiki is now so well rounded - run, catch, block - he is probably better than Curtis Martin has ever been at one point in his career. Although Curtis has the HoF career and Tiki does not.

 
Tiki has a couple big things working against him:

(1) He has been underappreciated for what he has done, even now in some circles (which I can't understand)

(2) He did not carry the full load (nor had the body to at the time) untill recently.

If Tiki had 3 more seasons like this and last year, then you would absolutley have him in the conversation. He is playing right now, since he got over the fumbling issue, at a HoF level.

However, even for a RB, you have to be at a HoF level for 7 years really, or close to it. If you are AMAZING like a Sayers you get an exception - but even Terrell Davis had more "great" years than Tiki and he doesnt deserve the hall.

Now, on the outside shot that Tiki can get say 4-5 more years, 3-4 of them at 2000 total yards production, THEN you have something.

Butt hat is asking an awful lot from a 30 year old RB that, low mileage perhaps, probably doesnt want to play that long.
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All I want to know is - Who are you calling Butt hat? :P
 
I can't tell if this is a serious question.  I am tempted to think it's a joke, since the answer is so obviously no.

From pro-football-reference.com, here are his ranks in the top 50 in relevant categories:

Among the league's all-time top 50

Rushes: 35

Rushing yards: 29

Yards from scrimmage: 29t

Not even in the top 25 in any significant category yet.  Not even top 50 in TDs.

He has played in one Pro Bowl.

Absolutely no chance, given his age.
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True, but by the end of next year he should rank in the top 15 in total yards from scrimmage and could easily end his career in the top 10.
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What part are you conceding is true? I said he has no chance.You go on to say where he might rank in yards from scrimmage by the end of his career. To that, I say: so?

1 Pro Bowl (though All Pro is a better measure) says a lot. It says he has only been one of the top RBs in his own conference one time. How could that possibly equate to a shot at the HOF?

If he continues his pace this season and has a 2000 total yard season next year, he'll probably be around #12 in YFS after next year. However, he'll probably only be around #16 or so in rushing yards. But he probably won't even be in the top 40 in rushing TDs or top 50 in total TDs.

And once he retires, guys like James, Alexander, and Tomlinson could easily pass him in these lists before he becomes Hall eligible.

Again: no chance.

 
Another thing that really needs to be considered is how much the game has changed. Rushing for a 1000 yards is nothing like it used to be. The passing game has evolved so much that it even diminishes the receiving numbers a bit.This was also a very good point from a poster above:

1 Pro Bowl (though All Pro is a better measure) says a lot. It says he has only been one of the top RBs in his own conference one time. How could that possibly equate to a shot at the HOF?
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Tiki Barber is very talented and a great player, but he isn't a HOFer.
 
I can't tell if this is a serious question. I am tempted to think it's a joke, since the answer is so obviously no.

From pro-football-reference.com, here are his ranks in the top 50 in relevant categories:

Among the league's all-time top 50

Rushes: 35

Rushing yards: 29

Yards from scrimmage: 29t

Not even in the top 25 in any significant category yet. Not even top 50 in TDs.

He has played in one Pro Bowl.

Absolutely no chance, given his age.

Just to play devil's advocate. Here are Joe Namath's rankings for QBs.

Among the league's all-time top 50

Pass attempts: 43

Passing yards: 39

Passing TDs: 41t

The HOF is more than just statistics.

Here goes another HOFer, Earl Campbells Career statistics

2187-9407-4.3-74 | 121-806-6.7-0

Among the league's all-time top 50

Rushes: 19

Rushing yards: 19

Rushing TDs: 19t

Here goes Tiki's stats:

1784-8159-4.6-47 | 506-4509-8.9-11

Pretty comparable. In fact, I'd say Tiki's number are a bit more impressive. It will take him 1 more year to move past Campbell into the top 20 in yardage and 2 more years to move past him in carries. He already eclipses him in total yardage.

And don't give me the amount of Pro-Bowls a player has played in. That's all just a popularity contest. Look at Ladainian Tomlinson here goes his 2003 numbers 313-1645-5.3-13 | 100-725-7.2-4. 2370 yards from scrimmage, 17 TDs, 100 catches...guess what...HE DIDN'T MAKE THE PRO BOWL that year.

Statistically Barber warrants HOF consideration.
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Just to play devil's advocate. Here are Joe Namath's rankings for QBs.Among the league's all-time top 50Pass attempts: 43Passing yards: 39Passing TDs: 41tThe HOF is more than just statistics.Here goes another HOFer, Earl Campbells Career statistics2187-9407-4.3-74 | 121-806-6.7-0Among the league's all-time top 50Rushes: 19Rushing yards: 19Rushing TDs: 19tHere goes Tiki's stats:1784-8159-4.6-47 | 506-4509-8.9-11Pretty comparable. In fact, I'd say Tiki's number are a bit more impressive. It will take him 1 more year to move past Campbell into the top 20 in yardage and 2 more years to move past him in carries. He already eclipses him in total yardage. And don't give me the amount of Pro-Bowls a player has played in. That's all just a popularity contest. Look at Ladainian Tomlinson here goes his 2003 numbers 313-1645-5.3-13 | 100-725-7.2-4. 2370 yards from scrimmage, 17 TDs, 100 catches...guess what...HE DIDN'T MAKE THE PRO BOWL that year. Statistically Barber warrants HOF consideration.
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The problem here in these comparisons is that you are comparing a QB from 35 years ago and a RB from 20 years ago with a relatively short shelf life, Football was completely different in both those eras. You have to look at Tiki vs. his contemporaries, and as I already mentioned there are A LOT of top RB from his era.
 
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Just to play devil's advocate.  Here are Joe Namath's rankings for QBs.

Among the league's all-time top 50

Pass attempts: 43

Passing yards: 39

Passing TDs: 41t

The HOF is more than just statistics.

Here goes another HOFer, Earl Campbells Career statistics

2187-9407-4.3-74 |  121-806-6.7-0

Among the league's all-time top 50

Rushes: 19

Rushing yards: 19

Rushing TDs: 19t

Here goes Tiki's stats:

1784-8159-4.6-47 |  506-4509-8.9-11

Pretty comparable.  In fact, I'd say Tiki's number are a bit more impressive.  It will take him 1 more year to move past Campbell into the top 20 in yardage and 2 more years to move past him in carries.  He already eclipses him in total yardage. 

And don't give me the amount of Pro-Bowls a player has played in.  That's all just a popularity contest.  Look at Ladainian Tomlinson here goes his 2003 numbers 313-1645-5.3-13 |  100-725-7.2-4.  2370 yards from scrimmage, 17 TDs, 100 catches...guess what...HE DIDN'T MAKE THE PRO BOWL that year. 

Statistically Barber warrants HOF consideration.
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The problem here in these comparisons is that you are comparing a QB from 35 years ago and a RB from 20 years ago with a relatively short shelf life, Football was completely different in both those eras. You have to look at Tiki vs. his contemporaries, and as I already mentioned there are A LOT of top RB from his era.
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:goodposting: Also:

And don't give me the amount of Pro-Bowls a player has played in. That's all just a popularity contest. Look at Ladainian Tomlinson here goes his 2003 numbers 313-1645-5.3-13 | 100-725-7.2-4. 2370 yards from scrimmage, 17 TDs, 100 catches...guess what...HE DIDN'T MAKE THE PRO BOWL that year.
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First, that LT situation was very rare. Holmes had 2110 total yards and 27 TDs. Jamal Lewis rushed for 2066 yards. Portis had 1905 total yards and 14 TDs in 13 games (12 starts). More importantly, Denver was 10-6 and San Diego was 4-12. Sure, if it were me, I'd have voted for Tomlinson over Portis. But IMO it was perfectly reasonable to vote Holmes & Lewis in first.Much more useful for this discussion than citing a rare situation with Tomlinson would be to find cases in which Tiki deserved to make it on merit but didn't. 2002 appears to be the only season in which that may have happened. Even if he had made it then, that would still only be two times in which he was one of the best RBs in his conference. And, besides, in 2002, there were still at least 3 RBs (Holmes, Williams, Portis) in the AFC who had better years.

In terms of NFL performance, he just hasn't measured up as one of the top few RBs in the league during his career. Hence, no HOF for him.

 
It seems we're saying it a lot lately but this isn't the Hall of Very Good Players...it's the Hall of Fame. Tiki has been great, and is somehow undervalued each and every season for fantasy purposes; but HOF? Not unless [much like Rod Smith], the Hall completely revamps the number of people it can induct annually and, in turn, we see an overall increase in the number of inductees from this era versus prior ones.

 
The increase in number of teams and number of games has really changed the way career stats end up.Tiki has a shot if he puts up 2000 yard seasons 3 more years, because that should get him to Pro bowls 3-5 (he should go this year).Then he's got a shot.

 
He absolutely should get in. He is one of the best players in the history of the game. He was held back by his coaches and continued to prove them wrong year after year.He will easily eclipse 10,000 yards rushing and 7,000 yards receiving in his career. How many players have done that?

 
I think his brother has a better chance.Are there any brothers in the HOF? I know Dewey Selmon and Charlie Hannah didn't quite cut the mustard.

 
Faulk

Martin

Bettis

Emmitt

Thurman Thomas
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Tiki is better than all but Faulk (assuming Marshall) and Emmitt.
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There was a period there that Thurman was up there with Barry(one of my alltime faves) and Emmitt(record holder). IMO Tiki is not in that class. I'm not saying Thurman is but just that he "held his own" with those guys for a few years
 
Tiki will have another 2-3 seasons of this level of production and then he'll be a no-brainer Hall of Famer. Only way he doesn't become a HOFer is if he pulls a Robert Smith. I don't think Tiki cares too much for studying medicine though. Me thinks he'll stick around as long as it takes to retire when Ronde does so they can be inducted together (because Ronde is probably in based on his career accomplishments).

 
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Ronde's a whole different thing. There's a few DBs that will be ahead of him IMO. Harrison, Lynch, Deion, Darrel Green?...there's gonna be a bunch of DBs soon

 
Which brings up a bit of a tangent here: If the Barber bros. go in together, will it be the first time a pair of brothers get inducted at the same time?

Ronde's a whole different thing. There's a few DBs that will be ahead of him IMO. Harrison, Lynch, Deion, Darrel Green?...there's gonna be a bunch of DBs soon
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Faulk

Martin

Bettis

Emmitt

Thurman Thomas
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Tiki is better than all but Faulk (assuming Marshall) and Emmitt.
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This is laughable.
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It is far from laughable. Debateable perhaps, not not at all laughable. Tiki in his prime (right now) is a better back than Martin or Bettis in their primes, and is probably on par with Thomas.

 
What people also need to realize about Tiki is that he went most of his career as a change of pace back and a special team guy. Even though he's over 30, there's a lot of tread left on the tires because he didn't use them much during his "prime".He's also one of the best conditioned athletes in the league who got over the one knock on his stellar career: His fumbling issues.

 
I've slowly come on board the Tiki bandwagon. Not sure about this HOF argument. He still has some work to do for another two or three years. But as for this year, you have to consider this guy for MVP. He single-handedly carried the Giants past the Chiefs yesterday in one of the most dominating performances of the season. And good for him. He's a character guy and there's a lot to like about his story.

 
I have voted "no" on nearly every one of these that has come up(T Davis, Bettis, R Smith, J Smith, Monk, etc.). I have often said that if you have to ask, then he doesn't belong. In fact, I can't ever remember voting "yes" in one of these polls.With that said, I say "yes" here. Tiki is tremendously underrated even still, and he deserves his spot in the HOF. This coming from a Redskins fan.

 
His TD numbers arent that good too. That could hurt.
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You have a good point, but I would hate if thats what kept him out. He has proven imho that he can be a smaller successul goalline runner ala Priest Holmes, yet the coaches in NY have continually tried to pull him at the goalline.
 
In an interesting twist, especially considering Tiki is now so well rounded - run, catch, block - he is probably better than Curtis Martin has ever been at one point in his career.

Although Curtis has the HoF career and Tiki does not.
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:goodposting:
 
His TD numbers arent that good too. That could hurt.
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He has proven imho that he can be a smaller successul goalline runner ala Priest Holmes, yet the coaches in NY have continually tried to pull him at the goalline.
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I disagree. I really like Tiki but have always had issues with him at the goalline. IIRC when he was young, he didn't start because he stunk in short yardage spots and was "just a 3rd down back". Since, he, the G-men, and opposing Ds have learned he can beat just about anyone to the pylon in a footrace. The threat of that may open up some inside runs as guys cheat outside but he's no "pile mover".
 
2001

Player X: 16 games started, 1236 rush yards, 3.6 YPC, 367 rec yards, 1603 total yards

Tiki Barber: 9 games started, 865 rush yards, 5.2 YPC, 577 rec yards, 1442 total yards

2002

Player X: 16 games started, 1683 rush yards, 4.5 YPC, 489 rec yards, 2172 total yards

Tiki Barber: 15 games started, 1387 rush yards, 4.6 YPC, 597 rec yards, 1984 total yards

2003

Player X: 16 games started, 1645 rush yards, 5.3 YPC, 725 rec yards, 2370 total yards

Tiki Barber: 16 games started, 1216 rush yards, 4.4 YPC, 461 rec yards, 1677 total yards

2004

Player X: 15 games started, 1335 rush yards, 3.9 YPC, 441 rec yards, 1776 total yards

Tiki Barber: 14 games started, 1518 rush yards, 4.7 YPC, 578 rec yards, 2096 totaly yards

2005(as of this morning, so Tiki has one more game than Player X)

Player X: 13 games started, 1247 rush yards, 4.4 YPC, 339 rec yards, 1586 total yards

Tiki Barber: 14 games started, 1577 rush yards, 5.0 YPC, 421 rec yards, 1998 total yards

Recap and addittional info

Tiki Barber has always been taken out on the goalline, whereas player X is the full time RB, so the TD numbers are not close. Moreover, as you can see Tiki has many less starts than Player X, most probably due to the fact that the coaching staff has continually tried to force Tiki into a RBBC despite every conceivable stat showing that he deserves to be "the guy." Both have always had average-below average o-lines during this time period. Both have had similar talent surrounding them at the skill positions. Both are considered to be great team guys and great leaders. With those things in mind, lets recap:

Rushing yards: Tiki was better in 2 of the years. Player X was better in 3 of the years.

YPC: Tiki was better in 4 of the years. Player X was better in 1 of the years.

rec yards: Tiki was better in 4 of the years. Player X was better in 1 of the years.

Total yards: Tiki was better in 2 of the years. Player X was better in 3 of the years.

Thoughts?

 
I have a hard time believing so many people in this forum think Tiki is a HOFer.

For Tiki supporters, do you think he is in today? This notion is easily refuted. If you don't think he is in today, what are your assumptions for his future performance that will get him in? I'd like to see them, because they can probably also be refuted.

Let's review.

Hall of Fame RBs

Here are the modern era Halfbacks & Fullbacks, from HOF by Position:

Marion Motley (FB) 1946-1953, 1955

Charley Trippi (HB) 1947-1955

Doak Walker (HB) 1950-1955

Joe Perry (FB) 1948-1963

Hugh McElhenny (HB) 1952-1964

Frank Gifford (HB-FL) 1952-1960, 1962-1964

Jim Brown (FB) 1957-1965

Ollie Matson (HB) 1952, 1954-1966

John Henry Johnson (FB) 1954-1966

Paul Hornung (HB) 1957-1962, 1964-1966

Lenny Moore (HB) 1956-1967

Jim Taylor (FB) 1958-1967

Gale Sayers (HB) 1965-1971

Leroy Kelly (RB) 1964-1973

Larry Csonka (FB) 1968-1979

O.J. Simpson (RB) 1969-1979

Franco Harris (RB) 1972-1984

Earl Campbell (RB) 1978-1985

John Riggins (RB) 1971-1979, 1981-1985

Walter Payton (RB) 1975-1987

Tony Dorsett (RB) 1977-1988

Eric Dickerson (RB) 1983-1993

Marcus Allen (RB) 1982-1997

Barry Sanders (RB) 1989-1998

Careers ending in the 50s: 3

Careers ending in the 60s: 9

Careers ending in the 70s: 4

Careers ending in the 80s: 5

Careers ending in the 90s: 3

Looking at the last 3 decades before the 00s, the average is 4 RBs admitted. Do we assume the average jumps up in the 00s? It will have to for Tiki to get in, unless you feel he is a top 4 RB whose career ends this decade.

In his era

So, where does he rank with his contemporaries?

Times All NFL, for current or recent players not yet inducted, from All NFL:

4 - Emmitt Smith

3 - Marshall Faulk, Priest Holmes, Terrell Davis, Mike Alstott (FB)

2 - Thurman Thomas, Jerome Bettis, Curtis Martin

1 - Eddie George, Edgerrin James, Jamal Lewis, Ricky Williams, Ladainian Tomlinson

0 - Tiki Barber

So Tiki was never considered to be among the top two RBs in any season of his career. Bettis, Martin, & Thomas were selected two times each, yet there are people saying Tiki has been better than them. :no:

How about Pro Bowls, from pro-football-reference.com?

8 - Emmitt Smith

7 - Marshall Faulk

6 - Jerome Bettis, Mike Alstott

5 - Curtis Martin, Thurman Thomas

4 - Eddie George, Ahman Green

3 - Priest Holmes, Terrell Davis, Edgerrin James, Corey Dillon

2 - Ladainian Tomlinson, Deuce McAllister, Stephen Davis, Shaun Alexander, Garrison Hearst, Warrick Dunn

1 - Tiki Barber, Jamal Lewis, Ricky Williams, Travis Henry, Michael Bennett, Clinton Portis

I didn't list all the Pro Bowlers during Tiki's career, but you get the idea: Tiki has not distinguished himself from his peers during his career. There are many guys who will not sniff the HOF who have earned more recognition in their careers.

If Tiki is doing that now, it is almost certainly too little, too late, unless he can do it for a fairly sustained length of time, unlikely due to his age (30 now, 31 before next season).

In addition to those contemporaries, what about Ricky Watters? Is he getting in? I think he was similar to Tiki but better. No one is clamoring for him to get in, but he is ahead of Tiki in every category, with a huge lead in TDs. He was a 5 time Pro Bowler and had 1117/12 in the postseason to add to his excellent regular season numbers.

Performance

From pro-football-reference.com:

+--------------------------+-------------------------+ | Rushing | Receiving |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| 1997 nyg | 12 | 136 511 3.8 3 | 34 299 8.8 1 || 1998 nyg | 16 | 52 166 3.2 0 | 42 348 8.3 3 || 1999 nyg | 16 | 62 258 4.2 0 | 66 609 9.2 2 || 2000 nyg | 16 | 213 1006 4.7 8 | 70 719 10.3 1 || 2001 nyg | 14 | 166 865 5.2 4 | 72 577 8.0 0 || 2002 nyg | 16 | 303 1386 4.6 11 | 69 597 8.7 0 || 2003 nyg | 16 | 278 1216 4.4 2 | 69 461 6.7 1 || 2004 nyg | 16 | 322 1518 4.7 13 | 52 578 11.1 2 || 2005 nyg | 13 | 284 1357 4.8 6 | 37 392 10.6 2 |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| TOTAL | 135 | 1816 8283 4.6 47 | 511 4580 9.0 12 |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+Not updated for yesterday, obviously. So Tiki has had 3 impressive seasons: 2002, 2004, 2005. Even in those years, was his performance amongst the top 3-4 by any NFL RB?In 2002, Tiki had 1985/11. Holmes had 2287/24. Williams had 2216/17. Tomlinson had 2172/15. Portis had 1872/17. Alexander had 1635/18. McAllister had 1740/16. Nope, not a top 3-4 performance.

In 2004, Tiki had 2096/15. It was a top 3-4 performance. He finished as fantasy RB #2.

This season, prior to this week (which is not yet posted at pro-football-reference.com), Alexander, Tomlinson, James, and Larry Johnson had thus far outperformed Tiki. Tiki's performance yesterday was huge, so there is a good chance he will end up with a top 3-4 season performance. Let's say he does.

That would be 2 top 3-4 seasons in his career, in 9 seasons. Again, I go back to my question up top: how many more do those of you who think he will get in think he is going to have? He needs at least two more at his current production level IMO, and I don't see that happening at age 31 & 32.

By the way, here is his career postseason data:

Year Opp Result | RSH YD TD | REC YD TD---------------------+-----------------+----------------- 1997 min L,22-23 | 17 29 0 | 3 31 0 2000 phi W,20-10 | 15 35 0 | 3 13 0 2000 min W,41-0 | 12 69 0 | 4 21 0*2000 bal L,7-34 | 11 49 0 | 6 26 0 2002 sfo L,38-39 | 26 115 1 | 5 62 0---------------------+-----------------+-----------------TOTAL | 81 297 1 | 21 153 0Not impressive. It doesn't hurt him obviously, but it also doesn't help him like it helps Terrell Davis & Thurman Thomas, for example.Ranks

Here are his historical ranks through last week, again from pfr.com:

Among the league's all-time top 50

Rushes: 33

Rushing yards: 24

Yards from scrimmage: 29

Things to note here. First, he is not even in the top 50 in rushing TDs or overall TDs. That hurts a lot IMO. You can argue that he wasn't given the goal line opportunities, but I would counter that (a) he didn't earn them and (b) it doesn't matter why, it just matters that he didn't get them.

Second, it is unlikely Tiki will end his career in the top 10 in rushing yards. He would need another 3600+ rushing yards to get there, and that assumes that Dillon, James, Dunn, and/or Holmes don't push the bar higher. Of that group, James is the one that will likely get there ahead of Tiki.

So Tiki's only real claim will be based on yards from scrimmage. If he follows this year with two more 2000+ yard seasons, which I happen to think is unlikely, he will be at #8, assuming Bettis retires before then.

Does he get into the HOF because he is #8 in YFS? It's not enough IMO.

Timing

We must not only ask where Tiki will rank when he retires, but also where he will rank when he becomes eligible 5 years later. Will Owens or Harrison bump him down the YFS list?

And it is also true that Tiki will not only be competing with other RBs, but also with all other eligible players, coaches, & contributors. Will he be worthy of being one of up to 6 players/coaches/contributors selected in any given year?

Conclusion

Very good player, will not make the HOF.

 
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