Tiki HOF Material? (1 Viewer)

[Snotbubbles]

That's fine. Tiki has 2. Bettis has 6. Do you think Bettis was undeserving 4 times? And doesn't it say something that, despite the fact that less deserving players make it due to popularity and/or injury, yet Tiki has only made it twice?

Because it's a popularity contest. Look at 2002 when Tiki had 1983 total yards and 11 TDs and didn't make the ProBowl (Michael Bennett did with 1647 and 6 TDs, Marshall Faulk with 1490 and 10 TDs, Ahman Green with 1633 and 9 TDs). Bettis was undeserving in 1994 he finished with 1318 total yards and 4 TDs but was selected as a 4th RB (even though Rodney Hampton and Terry Allen outrushed him that year).2001 is debateable. He only played in 11 games.2004 as I already stated he didn't deserve to go.So Tiki has been to 2, will probably go to a third this year and should have gone in 2002. Plus, I don't think Tiki should be in the HOF.

 

[Tau837]

I have a hard time putting Bettis on the "in" list. He's 5th all-time in yards, but as others have used the term he is a "compiler." He wasn't really all that special when comparing him to his contemporaries at RB, he basically got a bunch of carries which is why he ranks so high in rushing yards. He's a guy who had his career prolonged by become a part-time back with short yardage responsibilities. He never led the league in rushing and his lifetime average of 71 yards per game isn't really HOF material for a guy who would have to get in based on his rushing totals since he wasn't much of a reciever. I would put Tiki ahead of him because of how really good Tiki has been the past couple of years, Bettis was never this good.

On Bettis as a compiler, one of the best things in his favor is his 2 All Pro selections. I posted on this earlier. That means he was judged to be one of the top 2 RBs in football twice. As a comparison, Tiki has achieved that only once. People tend to knock Pro Bowl selections, but he had 6, which is a pretty high number for a RB. Bettis also is a "big back", and some might give him some level of credit for that, given that he lasted for so long despite the pounding incurred by his style. And, finally, he will be seen as a key leader on a Super Bowl winner.

Just Win Baby> I know that this is off topic, I just think it's curious that you think 2 All Pro selections is significant enough for Bettis to get in, whereas 3x All Pro isn't enough for TD to get in (in your estimation). Therefore, in your book, a long career compiling lots of stats while not necessarily performing at the best in the league warrants consideration, no?sorry for the hijack. carry on.

I don't think 2 All Pros is enough for Bettis, I simply think it refutes the "he's nothing but a compiler" viewpoint. For Bettis, I think the main basis for him to make it is indeed his statistical accomplishments, namely his career rushing yards and TDs. The 2 All Pros and 6 Pro Bowls and the fact that he was a key leader on a Super Bowl winner complement that nicely to make him more than just a compiler.I think both elements are needed for a HOFer: career statistics/accomplishments, and peak statistics/accomplishments. Bettis has both. No, he's not Emmitt Smith, Barry Sanders, etc... but I think there is a threshold for HOF worthiness, and he is just above it.For Davis, it is not true that I think 3 All Pro selections is "not enough." They, along with his statistics for three great seasons are evidence of outstanding peak performance. But he doesn't have the other element, career accomplishments/statistics that measure up to his HOF peers.

 

[Tau837]

That's fine. Tiki has 2. Bettis has 6. Do you think Bettis was undeserving 4 times? And doesn't it say something that, despite the fact that less deserving players make it due to popularity and/or injury, yet Tiki has only made it twice?

Because it's a popularity contest. Look at 2002 when Tiki had 1983 total yards and 11 TDs and didn't make the ProBowl (Michael Bennett did with 1647 and 6 TDs, Marshall Faulk with 1490 and 10 TDs, Ahman Green with 1633 and 9 TDs). Bettis was undeserving in 1994 he finished with 1318 total yards and 4 TDs but was selected as a 4th RB (even though Rodney Hampton and Terry Allen outrushed him that year).2001 is debateable. He only played in 11 games.2004 as I already stated he didn't deserve to go.So Tiki has been to 2, will probably go to a third this year and should have gone in 2002. Plus, I don't think Tiki should be in the HOF.

Ok, we agree on Tiki. As for Bettis:In 1994, he had more total yards than both Hampton and Allen. He was also the only bright spot on offense for a 4-12 Rams team that had no other Pro Bowlers. Hampton and Bettis were fairly comparable, but Allen played with the #2 passing offense, which I imagine negatively affected his chances. Anyway, I don't think it is clear that Bettis didn't deserve it. In 2001, I agree there were too many other candidates with better seasons, although IIRC Bettis was leading the league in rushing when he got hurt.In 2004, I agree again that there were more others with better seasons, but consider that when Staley got hurt that year, Bettis stepped in and completely dominated for his team, which ultimately went 15-1.Sometimes around these boards, I think we tend to focus only on statistics and not also consider the context for things like Pro Bowl selections. It is perfectly reasonable that sometimes one guy with better stats is passed over for another with lesser stats, for other reasons.I think it's fair to say that Bettis "deserved" a couple less than he got.And I agree that Tiki deserved it in 2002. So if he makes it this season, which looks likely right now, but still with 10 games to play, they would be theroetically even in that department.By the way, great discussion.

 

[dawgtrails]

The guy can work a room and he'll use that to his advantage. He's in NY and his broadcast career post football will keep him in the public eye, particularly to the voters. Barring that, he will simply lobby his way into the HOF. The more NFL players turn into a bunch of out of control animals to the general public with all the drunk driving and handgun waving and wife beating, and it will only get worse over time, the more it will help Barber to be perceived as a "good guy" and "not one of those thugs" Worked for Lynn Swann. Barber will retire and spend some time asking the Peter Kings of the world how he likes his coffee and he's a lock. I think people minimize the impact of simple ### kissing the voters. The voters are people too ( most are journalists so I'd never call them human) and they all have failings that can be manipulated. Barber will simply lobby his way into the HOF.

That, and he probably deserves to get in anyway