Tim Tebow - 8.17.21 Waived By Jacksonville (2 Viewers)

[ICON211]

Did that D look like the 31st ranked D to anyone? They looked awesome to me...best D Broncos have faced all season. I've never seen so many negative plays, esp in the running game.Tebow did not play well, but I didn't think it was terrible...certainly not the worrst QB of all time as some would have you think. He played like you might expect a QB playing on the road in his 16th ever start against a belichick defense.If I were to place blame for this game, our lack of depth @safety would be #1, having a MLB who can't cover #2, an offensive line allowing massive penetration #3, coaches failing to adapt #4, depth @ WR #5, and Tebows play #6.See what I did here? I'm not absolving Tebow from blame and I'm not makimg excuses, just pointing out the larger issues. Remember - this team was 4 -12 last year, there's only so much patching up that can be done, especially w/o an offesason.I think it's funny that the Tebow haters are quick to pin wins on the team, or injured opponenets, or whatever, but pin losses on Tebow. I suppose the Tebowites do the opposite, so maybe it evens out.

Tebow was horrible yesterday. Absolutely horrendous. Is the loss all on him? Of course not but his play was completely prohibitive of the Broncos being competitive. It's okay to own that, it was the end of his rookie season (even though we all know that is not entirely true but I will grant it to avoid that debate) and he shouldn't be expected to put the team on his back and carry it at this stage of his development. But that doesn't change the fact that he was absolutely turrible yesterday. Everything that is wrong with his game was clearly demonstrated and he couldn't muster his strong suits to compensate for his shortcomings either.The worst part is that McGahee was running strong early in the game and if Tebow could muster a 60% completion rate he might have been able to help sustain some drives and keep the NE offense off the field. But he couldn't even complete 40% of his passes a fact which helped kill multiple Denver drives (and demonstrates why completion % isn't the overrated stat that some in here try to make it seem).The guy has talent, there is no denying that, but he has massive flaws to work on in the off season. And it is fun to watch and makes for great copy.

No, you are right. He was terrible. Let me ask you this though - on 26 attempts, 60% is 16 completions. Had Tebow completed 7 more throws than he did, would it have made a difference? I think at best, he may have put up one more TD and taken one TD off of the Pats, so at best Broncos loose 38-17. Still a blowout.

Can not look at it this way as the entire game plays out differently. Not saying Denver would have won but its not as simple as saying take 7 points ofrom the Pats and add 7 to Denver.

 

[ICON211]

I think the last two weeks just show how wildly inconsistent Tebow is, which a lot of young QBs are. However, he is a very inaccurate passer and accuracy can be improved a bit, but you are never going to improve a guys accuracy a great deal and it will be very hard for a team to win on a consistent basis with a guy that does not complete even 50% of his passes.

 

[Sinn Fein]

I think the last two weeks just show how wildly inconsistent Tebow is, which a lot of young QBs are. However, he is a very inaccurate passer and accuracy can be improved a bit, but you are never going to improve a guys accuracy a great deal and it will be very hard for a team to win on a cocsistent basis with a guy that does not complete even 50% of his passes.

Get better WRs, who run faster, jump higher, and run more precise routes.

 

[GregR]

...Tebow deserves the same (overweighted) credit for wins and losses any other QB. ...

If I thought a system for rating QBs is over weighing wins and losses, I would advocate using a different system that weights them correctly.Doesn't every QB, Tebow or otherwise, deserve the appropriate credit and no more or less? Why advocate sticking with a system you say is flawed?

 

[Chaka]

I think the last two weeks just show how wildly inconsistent Tebow is, which a lot of young QBs are. However, he is a very inaccurate passer and accuracy can be improved a bit, but you are never going to improve a guys accuracy a great deal and it will be very hard for a team to win on a cocsistent basis with a guy that does not complete even 50% of his passes.

Get better WRs, who run faster, jump higher, and run more precise routes.

How does that help Tebow throw the ball more accurately?

 

[ICON211]

I think the last two weeks just show how wildly inconsistent Tebow is, which a lot of young QBs are. However, he is a very inaccurate passer and accuracy can be improved a bit, but you are never going to improve a guys accuracy a great deal and it will be very hard for a team to win on a cocsistent basis with a guy that does not complete even 50% of his passes.

Get better WRs, who run faster, jump higher, and run more precise routes.

Wow. He misses guys by a wide margin a lot. The Tebow supporters have a very hard time being fair as do his detractors which is very frustrating.

 

[Sinn Fein]

I think the last two weeks just show how wildly inconsistent Tebow is, which a lot of young QBs are. However, he is a very inaccurate passer and accuracy can be improved a bit, but you are never going to improve a guys accuracy a great deal and it will be very hard for a team to win on a cocsistent basis with a guy that does not complete even 50% of his passes.

Get better WRs, who run faster, jump higher, and run more precise routes.

How does that help Tebow throw the ball more accurately?

faster WRs will help his over throws on deep ballsWRs that can jump higher can catch the balls that are 3 feet over the head's of normal WRsAnd, I realize that WRs that run better routes probably won't help, but it felt awkward saying that WR's who run worse routes may actually be in a better position to catch Tebow's balls.

 

[GregR]

I think the Broncos are going to be a fascinating case study for what the NFL is today. Will the owner and front office lean more towards business or football? I say that because having seen what Tebow does to my circle of friends, almost all from church, it's clear he has sparked something where people that have no interest in football at all were rooting for him and watching. I have to think that this will transalte into a ton of revenue and possibly open up some different markets. Denver can promote him as a true role model that doesn't have the bad past or criminal record that many in sports do, religion aside - although separating him from religion is really impossible.But on the football side, they have a really tough decision to make. If they go with Tim for next year or even a few years, then I would think they have to structure the entire team around him. You can't have a backup that is a true pocket passer to go along with offensive skill positions that work with Tebow's method of playing. You need to load up on RB's and FB's, O-lineman that predominately run block and if they have pass blocking holes that will be ok. I'm guessing WR's that can ad-lib a lot and run block like Hines Ward on speed. I just don't know if you build the team like a typical football team, but then have Tim as your QB. And if you work around him, then you are stuck in that way of doing things. Even if you do it for a year, if it fails, and you want to make a change, what did you do to your cap in that year, or who did you pass up because his skill set didn't match what you needed for Tebow.It will be, next to Manning, the most interesting off season in the NFL I think.

Very good and thought provoking post. There are a lot of aspects to the topic of why people support Tebow, how it affects decision making, etc. One aspect I've sensed mirrors what you have said, that I think a large percentage of Tebow supporters are supporting him mostly because of his religious beliefs. I think that also explains the oft-expressed view that people who don't think Tebow is a good QB have dislike of his religious beliefs as the reason. For many whose only judgment about the situation is based on supporting a person for his religion, then anyone who disagrees may get accused of it being for religious reasons rather than football.Another thing that strikes me about this, is why Tim Tebow? There are literally many hundreds of players in the NFL who have strong religious values and are good people at heart and good role models. And many of them are far better football players than Tebow is by any measure, reasonable or not. Drew Brees is a prime example. Humble. Family man. Is not shy about discussing his strong religious beliefs in an appropriate setting (you can easily find interviews on the web where he talks at length about his beliefs). He always makes a point of lifting up his teamates. People want to play for him as much as anyone ever wanted to play for Tebow. And the guy actually plays the position of quarterback at a Hall of Fame level. If the Christian community is so hungering for a sports role model to hold up, the NFL should be looking to promote someone like Brees before they promote Tebow. Thought here is already so much momentum and so many people seem to take the Tebow situation personally that I doubt that'll happen. I'm also doubtful that Brees thinks football is the right forum to push religious beliefs, so he might not go for it. Still though, that doesn't change my wondering why more people supporting Tebow aren't fans of Brees.

 

[thatguy]

I don't envy Elways position.This year will have the fan base vastly overrating not only the QB but the overall strength of this team. He has to figure out a way to bring in a QB to legitimately challenge Tebow while also filling lots of other holes, all the while fighting a media punditry and fandom that's going to want to annoint "The Great Incompletion."

I want to believe in Tebow, I really do, but my head tells me his chances of leading this team to a Super Bowl are extremely slim. If he continues to show glimpses of greatness while being generally mediocre or worse, it's going to be tough to convince the fan base that a change is in order. The bottom line is, as fun as this season was, it could end up setting this franchise back several years at the QB position--and if they do indeed try to build around Tebow's strengths--other positions as well.

There are so many holes to fill, I don't think letting Tebow play out another year is going to set the team back any more then they would have been without him.. From everything I have been reading there are only 2 QBs 1st round worthy and Denver had very little chance of getting either with or without Tebowmania.

I agree that letting him play another season won't necessarily set them back. But if they do start to build around him through the draft and we see another season of ups and downs, with just enough "ups" to convince management to role with him yet another year, it could get ugly fast if he is not able to ever to become the QB we all hope he can.

 

[thatguy]

Imo, the biggest flaw in Tebows game right now is that he isn't checking down...at all. He isn't making the easy underneath throw. This is something that Brady makes a living on, and I don't remember Tebow doing once all season. This is what is killing his completion percentage - he tries to hit everything down-field. As further evidence, did y'all realize Tebow is tied for 3rd in the league for yards/completion? Just behind Schaub and Palmer, tied with Eli.Now, we don't know if that is by design. It's possible that he has so little touch on the short game that he has been instructed to not throw it. I don't think that's it, because they would have simply removed all those routes from the playbook. It's gotta be more a matter of Tebow always looking deep.He starts finding the dump-off, completion percentage goes up, sacks go down, drives stay alive. This is something that can definately be improved, IMO.

He probably can't make the check-down throw. His YPC is so high because his only hope for a completion is to toss it up deep and pray that his WRs make the catch.

To be fair, he does throw a very accurate and catchable deep ball. More often than not, his deep balls are more than mere 'prayers'.

 

[Football Jones]

I think it's pretty clear now Tebow has an excellent chance to become a top FF QB. Some people refuse to see his progression despite it staring them right in the face, LOL.

When you consider all his attributes & then consider how much headway he's made as a passer, you're crazy not think he's got at least a good chance. Most of the things he needs to improve on are easily correctable. It would be one thing if he didn't have all his other attributes (like his physical & character traits), but he's got many things other QBs can only dream of (running ability, strength, toughness, leadership, work ethic, etc.). And not only that, he's got a plus arm.

In short, I've never seen the FF community be so harsh on a young QB who was raw coming in. Maybe it was because he was a 1st round pick or maybe it's the weird hate some people have for this kid. A QB like Matt Ryan couldn't even manage a FG in the playoffs in his 4th season (with much better talent than Tebow has around him). I don't get it.

Tebow isn't a lock, but I believe he's turned the corner & you're going see him get better & better. He's made a ton of progress & still has a lot of headroom as a passer. He's going to start giving opposing Ds fits when he becomes more consistent (again, to go along with his many other attributes). Just a matter of time & experience.

 

[ICON211]

I think it's pretty clear now Tebow has an excellent chance to become a top FF QB. Some people refuse to see his progression despite it staring them right in the face, LOL.

When you consider all his attributes & then consider how much headway he's made as a passer, you're crazy not think he's got at least a good chance. Most of the things he needs to improve on are easily correctable. It would be one thing if he didn't have all his other attributes (like his physical & character traits), but he's got many things other QBs can only dream of (running ability, strength, toughness, leadership, work ethic, etc.). And not only that, he's got a plus arm.

In short, I've never seen the FF community be so harsh on a young QB who was raw coming in. Maybe it was because he was a 1st round pick or maybe it's the weird hate some people have for this kid. A QB like Matt Ryan couldn't even manage a FG in the playoffs in his 4th season (with much better talent than Tebow has around him). I don't get it.

Tebow isn't a lock, but I believe he's turned the corner & you're going see him get better & better. He's made a ton of progress & still has a lot of headroom as a passer. He's going to start giving opposing Ds fits when he becomes more consistent (again, to go along with his many other attributes). Just a matter of time & experience.

His biggest problem is accuracy which is probably the hardest thing to correct actually.

 

[Football Jones]

I think it's pretty clear now Tebow has an excellent chance to become a top FF QB. Some people refuse to see his progression despite it staring them right in the face, LOL.

When you consider all his attributes & then consider how much headway he's made as a passer, you're crazy not think he's got at least a good chance. Most of the things he needs to improve on are easily correctable. It would be one thing if he didn't have all his other attributes (like his physical & character traits), but he's got many things other QBs can only dream of (running ability, strength, toughness, leadership, work ethic, etc.). And not only that, he's got a plus arm.

In short, I've never seen the FF community be so harsh on a young QB who was raw coming in. Maybe it was because he was a 1st round pick or maybe it's the weird hate some people have for this kid. A QB like Matt Ryan couldn't even manage a FG in the playoffs in his 4th season (with much better talent than Tebow has around him). I don't get it.

Tebow isn't a lock, but I believe he's turned the corner & you're going see him get better & better. He's made a ton of progress & still has a lot of headroom as a passer. He's going to start giving opposing Ds fits when he becomes more consistent (again, to go along with his many other attributes). Just a matter of time & experience.

His biggest problem is accuracy which is probably the hardest thing to correct actually.

I don't necessarily disagree. That said, it's technique with him much of the time. Many times Tebow misses, he gets under the ball & it sails. That's correctable. I believe he would've been farther along had we not had the labor strike. Yeah, he worked out on his own, but QB coaches are there for a reason. It's the little things like that which will make Tebow a better, more accurate passer.

You rarely see a QB prospect with his combination of raw athletic ability, character/leadership abilities, as well as possessing an NFL arm. Obviously, that's the attraction with Tebow. If he hadn't made as much progress as he has, I wouldn't be as high on him. Also, if Tebow didn't have the work ethic to keep improving, I wouldn't be as high on him.

He just needs time & experience. I believe we'll continue to see Tebow get better & better as a passer.

 

[moleculo]

I think it's pretty clear now Tebow has an excellent chance to become a top FF QB. Some people refuse to see his progression despite it staring them right in the face, LOL.

When you consider all his attributes & then consider how much headway he's made as a passer, you're crazy not think he's got at least a good chance. Most of the things he needs to improve on are easily correctable. It would be one thing if he didn't have all his other attributes (like his physical & character traits), but he's got many things other QBs can only dream of (running ability, strength, toughness, leadership, work ethic, etc.). And not only that, he's got a plus arm.

In short, I've never seen the FF community be so harsh on a young QB who was raw coming in. Maybe it was because he was a 1st round pick or maybe it's the weird hate some people have for this kid. A QB like Matt Ryan couldn't even manage a FG in the playoffs in his 4th season (with much better talent than Tebow has around him). I don't get it.

Tebow isn't a lock, but I believe he's turned the corner & you're going see him get better & better. He's made a ton of progress & still has a lot of headroom as a passer. He's going to start giving opposing Ds fits when he becomes more consistent (again, to go along with his many other attributes). Just a matter of time & experience.

His biggest problem is accuracy which is probably the hardest thing to correct actually.

it is, but I think there is a "diminishing returns" thing going on with that. That is, it's really tough to go from 60%-62%, but it may not be as difficult to go from 45%-50%....does that make any sense?Tebow attempted 271 passes, completing 126 in 2011. 60% completion would have been 163, a difference of 37 completions, spread over 11.5 games. that's just a hair over 3 more completions per game than actually happened. Three times where he sees the check-down instead of throwing it away. Three passes with better accuracy. The difference between where he is now and numbers that would be acceptable isn't that big, and it's primarily because the number of attempts isn't huge. It's not like Tebow has been throwing it 50x a game.

 

[ICON211]

I think it's pretty clear now Tebow has an excellent chance to become a top FF QB. Some people refuse to see his progression despite it staring them right in the face, LOL.

When you consider all his attributes & then consider how much headway he's made as a passer, you're crazy not think he's got at least a good chance. Most of the things he needs to improve on are easily correctable. It would be one thing if he didn't have all his other attributes (like his physical & character traits), but he's got many things other QBs can only dream of (running ability, strength, toughness, leadership, work ethic, etc.). And not only that, he's got a plus arm.

In short, I've never seen the FF community be so harsh on a young QB who was raw coming in. Maybe it was because he was a 1st round pick or maybe it's the weird hate some people have for this kid. A QB like Matt Ryan couldn't even manage a FG in the playoffs in his 4th season (with much better talent than Tebow has around him). I don't get it.

Tebow isn't a lock, but I believe he's turned the corner & you're going see him get better & better. He's made a ton of progress & still has a lot of headroom as a passer. He's going to start giving opposing Ds fits when he becomes more consistent (again, to go along with his many other attributes). Just a matter of time & experience.

His biggest problem is accuracy which is probably the hardest thing to correct actually.

it is, but I think there is a "diminishing returns" thing going on with that. That is, it's really tough to go from 60%-62%, but it may not be as difficult to go from 45%-50%....does that make any sense?Tebow attempted 271 passes, completing 126 in 2011. 60% completion would have been 163, a difference of 37 completions, spread over 11.5 games. that's just a hair over 3 more completions per game than actually happened. Three times where he sees the check-down instead of throwing it away. Three passes with better accuracy. The difference between where he is now and numbers that would be acceptable isn't that big, and it's primarily because the number of attempts isn't huge. It's not like Tebow has been throwing it 50x a game.

I see your points. Next year will be a very big year for him given that it will be his second season as a starter with a full offseason program. Will be very interesting to watch.

 

[Hoss Style]

'14020345']it is, but I think there is a "diminishing returns" thing going on with that. That is, it's really tough to go from 60%-62%, but it may not be as difficult to go from 45%-50%....does that make any sense?

It definately makes sense. Not sure if it's true but I'd tend to lean in that direction.moleculo, you are one of the few posters in here that I read every post from. You are obviously a Denver fan but are not wildly flailing in the wind with a Broncos win or loss. You bring up great points and it's nice to see someone not blindly following their belief with blinders on which prevent them from making corrections to their path. Thanks for the level headedness.

It's so interesting to me to see so many Tebow defenders in here that are constantly asking "Why is everyone bashing Tebow?!?". I just went through this thread (not entirely - maybe 40 of the 65+) and counted up the "Tebow lovers" and the "Tebow haters". I basically defined a "lover" as someone who's posts defend Tebow after poor play (or not) and tend to place the blame on the rest of the team or parts of. I defined "haters" as pretty much the opposite.

Guess what? There's more people defending and touting Tebow than there are bashing him. In fact I was surprised as I looked back at how one negative post revealed 2, 3, 4 or more defensive comments in response. And the defenders are vehement in their responses - many times posting multiple paragraphs in response to a negative post that was only a few lines.

It's what I've encountered in talking to people around this city as well (although people are much more polite face-to-face, thank god). There actually aren't more people bashing Tebow than supporting him - at least not from what I've seen. Even on ESPN I've seen almost a balance of pro/con for Tebow (I still remember Coach Parcells raking Hoge over the coals on one Sunday Countdown in support of Tebow. It was great).

I think the blind supporters of Tebow are so loud sometimes, so insistant and many times - so wrong - in their impassioned support of Tebow that it actually pushes the other side away even further. I mean, look back at many of the posts in this thread. You'll see far fewer level-headed posts in support of Tebow (like moleculo) and many more that will tell you Tebow's mechanics don't matter, the coaches stink, the WRs all stink, the OL stinks, the OC stinks, the defense stinks, the front office stinks, Elway in particular stinks, etc. Some will even tell you that many poster's in this thread stink because they don't pull for Tebow and his off-the-field actions. And this shift of blame happens over and over with an "in your face" attitude, too often. Many times it makes you want to disagree with them just because of their "I'm right and you're wrong and there is no middle ground" attitude. Some of his detractors are just as forceful but they are fewer and often times just seem to be poking a stick in the cage to get the faithful all riled up.

I hate to say that it reminds me of religious zealots but ... take it for what you will. I spent much of my life in an area known as the "Bible Belt" and if you disagreed with "The Word" then often you were looked at with disdain and pity - and relentlessly preached to.

"The Word" here seems to be "Tebow". And boy does it bring the faithful out - and the louder you yell the more the "haters" dig in. Please stop with the "everyone's bashing Tebow", though. I just don't see it.

 

[Mile High]

I don't envy Elways position.This year will have the fan base vastly overrating not only the QB but the overall strength of this team. He has to figure out a way to bring in a QB to legitimately challenge Tebow while also filling lots of other holes, all the while fighting a media punditry and fandom that's going to want to annoint "The Great Incompletion."

I want to believe in Tebow, I really do, but my head tells me his chances of leading this team to a Super Bowl are extremely slim. If he continues to show glimpses of greatness while being generally mediocre or worse, it's going to be tough to convince the fan base that a change is in order. The bottom line is, as fun as this season was, it could end up setting this franchise back several years at the QB position--and if they do indeed try to build around Tebow's strengths--other positions as well.

There are so many holes to fill, I don't think letting Tebow play out another year is going to set the team back any more then they would have been without him.. From everything I have been reading there are only 2 QBs 1st round worthy and Denver had very little chance of getting either with or without Tebowmania.

I agree that letting him play another season won't necessarily set them back. But if they do start to build around him through the draft and we see another season of ups and downs, with just enough "ups" to convince management to role with him yet another year, it could get ugly fast if he is not able to ever to become the QB we all hope he can.

Was listening to the fan yesterday (Mike and Sandy) they both said and I agree Denvers first 4 picks need to be on the D side. This was suppose to be a 3 year rebuild, wouldn't be surprised if Denever didn't fall back to 5-11 4-12. If that happens and Tebow shows little improvement then you think about drafting a QB like Barkley.

 

[Jason Wood]

I think Elway deserves credit for not double-speaking. He said exactly what he should have said. Tebow has earned the right to be 1st on the depth chart entering training camp. That statement brings with it no guarantee that a rookie or veteran addition can't outplay/outpractice Tebow and grab the job, but it also suggests that if Tebow truly does improve as his vocal supporters maintain is possible, he should start the year as the starter again.

Kudos to Elway for speaking honestly.

 

[Andrew Garda]

I think Elway deserves credit for not double-speaking. He said exactly what he should have said. Tebow has earned the right to be 1st on the depth chart entering training camp. That statement brings with it no guarantee that a rookie or veteran addition can't outplay/outpractice Tebow and grab the job, but it also suggests that if Tebow truly does improve as his vocal supporters maintain is possible, he should start the year as the starter again.Kudos to Elway for speaking honestly.

This.Everyone wants him to declare the Tebow the greatest thing ever and he's not. Can he be? Maybe.But I don't think any other QB does what he did at times during the end of the season and get everyone's full confidence.However, based on the good things he did, he deserves a shot. That's all. I think Elway gets hammered far too often for being logical and putting the team's needs first.

 

[Two Deep]

Imo, the biggest flaw in Tebows game right now is that he isn't checking down...at all. He isn't making the easy underneath throw. This is something that Brady makes a living on, and I don't remember Tebow doing once all season. This is what is killing his completion percentage - he tries to hit everything down-field. As further evidence, did y'all realize Tebow is tied for 3rd in the league for yards/completion? Just behind Schaub and Palmer, tied with Eli.Now, we don't know if that is by design. It's possible that he has so little touch on the short game that he has been instructed to not throw it. I don't think that's it, because they would have simply removed all those routes from the playbook. It's gotta be more a matter of Tebow always looking deep.He starts finding the dump-off, completion percentage goes up, sacks go down, drives stay alive. This is something that can definately be improved, IMO.

Is it possible, with so many defenders in the box, that the typical dumpoffs aren't there, like they would be vs. a normal offense? Not sure, I'm speculating - but against Tebow, safeties/etc... play a LOT closer to the LOS - so those short routes are going to have more defenders there, no?

I don't think so. To my untrained eye watching broadcast feeds, there were plenty of outlet receivers open in the middle of the field all season.

If you look quick it looks like it says urinated eye.

 

[Two Deep]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/16/sports/football/harvey-araton-tim-tebow-performs-better-in-sideshow.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

“Over all, it wasn’t a bad day,” he’d said after a 45-10 playoff drubbing by the Patriots. “It depends on what lens you look through.”

Tebow, as usual, was looking through the light of a devoutly religious life. In the corridor, he hugged the young man, whose parents, Pat and Tammy, called themselves devout Christians and said their son had been to South Africa on a mission months before his injury.

Soon they were all praying together, while a protective cocoon of Tebow’s people formed around the pair, becoming huffy when a couple of reporters stopped to observe.

“Private family time,” one said, which was strange, because the scene was a hard-to-miss public spectacle, like so much of the Tebowing phenomenon, and it lasted considerably longer than any Denver drive.

As he always does, he thanked his teammates for their support and effort immediately after praising God. But one was left to surmise that he, the Broncos’ purported leader, should have been with them late Saturday night instead of in the corridor tending to his personal business, no matter how giving it was.

There are times when duty to team has to come first. Surely one of them is in the wake of lopsided and season-ending defeat.

 

[moleculo]

I think Elway deserves credit for not double-speaking. He said exactly what he should have said. Tebow has earned the right to be 1st on the depth chart entering training camp. That statement brings with it no guarantee that a rookie or veteran addition can't outplay/outpractice Tebow and grab the job, but it also suggests that if Tebow truly does improve as his vocal supporters maintain is possible, he should start the year as the starter again.Kudos to Elway for speaking honestly.

This.Everyone wants him to declare the Tebow the greatest thing ever and he's not. Can he be? Maybe.But I don't think any other QB does what he did at times during the end of the season and get everyone's full confidence.However, based on the good things he did, he deserves a shot. That's all. I think Elway gets hammered far too often for being logical and putting the team's needs first.

Agreed. Elway has done a fantastic job of keeping a steady hand at the wheel. I feel really good about the competance in the front office for the first time in a long time. Elway said early on that he wanted to re-build around the D because that's how you take advantage of the home-crowd, and I think that was the right tact to take. As long as TT can be at least a 'caretaker' type of QB and keep the turnovers down, he will have a future, IMO.

 

[Jason Wood]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/16/sports/football/harvey-araton-tim-tebow-performs-better-in-sideshow.html?partner=rss&emc=rss“Over all, it wasn’t a bad day,” he’d said after a 45-10 playoff drubbing by the Patriots. “It depends on what lens you look through.” Tebow, as usual, was looking through the light of a devoutly religious life. In the corridor, he hugged the young man, whose parents, Pat and Tammy, called themselves devout Christians and said their son had been to South Africa on a mission months before his injury. Soon they were all praying together, while a protective cocoon of Tebow’s people formed around the pair, becoming huffy when a couple of reporters stopped to observe. “Private family time,” one said, which was strange, because the scene was a hard-to-miss public spectacle, like so much of the Tebowing phenomenon, and it lasted considerably longer than any Denver drive. As he always does, he thanked his teammates for their support and effort immediately after praising God. But one was left to surmise that he, the Broncos’ purported leader, should have been with them late Saturday night instead of in the corridor tending to his personal business, no matter how giving it was. There are times when duty to team has to come first. Surely one of them is in the wake of lopsided and season-ending defeat.

As an atheist, I certainly don't adore overtly religious displays as it relates to things like sports performance or when celebrities win awards, etc... BUT, I have to disagree this time Two Deep. Tebow's faith is genuine, or so we have every reason to believe. Just because I may not see the world in the way he does, I really don't think the example here paints a negative picture for Tebow. While I think the kid is a disaster as a long-term QB prospect, I certainly see no evidence that he's not a great leader (both on and off the field), a hard worker, and someone that's as passionate for the game of football as there is in the league.You can have balance. I would MUCH rather have my QB taking a moment to reflect on his faith after a bad loss and remember that there ARE bigger things, than I would forgive a guy who goes out boozing to celebrate a victory or to commiserate a loss, and/or stays out in the clubs all night long.

 

[Spanky24]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/16/sports/football/harvey-araton-tim-tebow-performs-better-in-sideshow.html?partner=rss&emc=rss“Over all, it wasn’t a bad day,” he’d said after a 45-10 playoff drubbing by the Patriots. “It depends on what lens you look through.” Tebow, as usual, was looking through the light of a devoutly religious life. In the corridor, he hugged the young man, whose parents, Pat and Tammy, called themselves devout Christians and said their son had been to South Africa on a mission months before his injury. Soon they were all praying together, while a protective cocoon of Tebow’s people formed around the pair, becoming huffy when a couple of reporters stopped to observe. “Private family time,” one said, which was strange, because the scene was a hard-to-miss public spectacle, like so much of the Tebowing phenomenon, and it lasted considerably longer than any Denver drive. As he always does, he thanked his teammates for their support and effort immediately after praising God. But one was left to surmise that he, the Broncos’ purported leader, should have been with them late Saturday night instead of in the corridor tending to his personal business, no matter how giving it was. There are times when duty to team has to come first. Surely one of them is in the wake of lopsided and season-ending defeat.

Jay Feely was discussing this with Skip Bayless on ESPN yesterday. He hit the nail on the head when saying what Tebow does off the field (his religion and giving) has nothing to do with his on the field play. Anybody that is going to question this kids heart and desire to win a NFL football game every single week has no idea what they are talking about. As a Bronco fan I feel GREAT about how this season went and can not wait until next year to see the progess that Tim has made during the offseason.

 

[Mile High]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/16/sports/football/harvey-araton-tim-tebow-performs-better-in-sideshow.html?partner=rss&emc=rss“Over all, it wasn’t a bad day,” he’d said after a 45-10 playoff drubbing by the Patriots. “It depends on what lens you look through.” Tebow, as usual, was looking through the light of a devoutly religious life. In the corridor, he hugged the young man, whose parents, Pat and Tammy, called themselves devout Christians and said their son had been to South Africa on a mission months before his injury. Soon they were all praying together, while a protective cocoon of Tebow’s people formed around the pair, becoming huffy when a couple of reporters stopped to observe. “Private family time,” one said, which was strange, because the scene was a hard-to-miss public spectacle, like so much of the Tebowing phenomenon, and it lasted considerably longer than any Denver drive. As he always does, he thanked his teammates for their support and effort immediately after praising God. But one was left to surmise that he, the Broncos’ purported leader, should have been with them late Saturday night instead of in the corridor tending to his personal business, no matter how giving it was. There are times when duty to team has to come first. Surely one of them is in the wake of lopsided and season-ending defeat.

Wonder what Brees and Rodgers were doing after their teams lost?

 

[Otis]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/16/sports/football/harvey-araton-tim-tebow-performs-better-in-sideshow.html?partner=rss&emc=rss“Over all, it wasn’t a bad day,” he’d said after a 45-10 playoff drubbing by the Patriots. “It depends on what lens you look through.” Tebow, as usual, was looking through the light of a devoutly religious life. In the corridor, he hugged the young man, whose parents, Pat and Tammy, called themselves devout Christians and said their son had been to South Africa on a mission months before his injury. Soon they were all praying together, while a protective cocoon of Tebow’s people formed around the pair, becoming huffy when a couple of reporters stopped to observe. “Private family time,” one said, which was strange, because the scene was a hard-to-miss public spectacle, like so much of the Tebowing phenomenon, and it lasted considerably longer than any Denver drive. As he always does, he thanked his teammates for their support and effort immediately after praising God. But one was left to surmise that he, the Broncos’ purported leader, should have been with them late Saturday night instead of in the corridor tending to his personal business, no matter how giving it was. There are times when duty to team has to come first. Surely one of them is in the wake of lopsided and season-ending defeat.

As an atheist, I certainly don't adore overtly religious displays as it relates to things like sports performance or when celebrities win awards, etc... BUT, I have to disagree this time Two Deep. Tebow's faith is genuine, or so we have every reason to believe. Just because I may not see the world in the way he does, I really don't think the example here paints a negative picture for Tebow. While I think the kid is a disaster as a long-term QB prospect, I certainly see no evidence that he's not a great leader (both on and off the field), a hard worker, and someone that's as passionate for the game of football as there is in the league.You can have balance. I would MUCH rather have my QB taking a moment to reflect on his faith after a bad loss and remember that there ARE bigger things, than I would forgive a guy who goes out boozing to celebrate a victory or to commiserate a loss, and/or stays out in the clubs all night long.

This x 100

 

[Otis]

By the way, I disagree that Tebow can't throw the ball well or accurately. He can and has on some of the game-winning comeback drives he engineered. His problem is one part consistency and one part experience/confidence. If he can practice on the passing game this offseason and improve his consistency, with someone like Elway mentoring him on mechanics, I think the sky is the limit for this kid. We'll see.

 

[David Yudkin]

I could care less about a player's individual beliefs, so I am not a Tebow hater in that regard. I still don't get the warm and fuzzy about his quarterbacking skills. I'll give people he has strong leadership skills, but I think the league is going to catch up to him. Yes, the Broncos can perhaps get to him develop and perhaps change up what they are doing, but I suspect next year DEN could struggle to win many more than 5 or 6 games with a much tougher schedule.

Home

KC, OAK, SD, CLE, PIT, HOU, TB, NO

Away

KC, OAK, SD, BAL, CIN, NE, ATL, CAR

Depending upon how things are scheduled, DEN could end up with a decent sized losing streak. If that were the case, how long will the front office stick with Tebow? I get that he had a run of late game heroics, but the likelihood of that recurring consistently is mighty slim.

 

[Mile High]

I could care less about a player's individual beliefs, so I am not a Tebow hater in that regard. I still don't get the warm and fuzzy about his quarterbacking skills. I'll give people he has strong leadership skills, but I think the league is going to catch up to him. Yes, the Broncos can perhaps get to him develop and perhaps change up what they are doing, but I suspect next year DEN could struggle to win many more than 5 or 6 games with a much tougher schedule.HomeKC, OAK, SD, CLE, PIT, HOU, TB, NOAwayKC, OAK, SD, BAL, CIN, NE, ATL, CARDepending upon how things are scheduled, DEN could end up with a decent sized losing streak. If that were the case, how long will the front office stick with Tebow? I get that he had a run of late game heroics, but the likelihood of that recurring consistently is mighty slim.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if they finish with only 5 or 6 wins. Worse to first and back happens all the time in the NFL. At this point Denver has to let him fail or succeed on the field. Draft for D this year and if he falls complete on his face then you can move on.

 

[moleculo]

I could care less about a player's individual beliefs, so I am not a Tebow hater in that regard. I still don't get the warm and fuzzy about his quarterbacking skills. I'll give people he has strong leadership skills, but I think the league is going to catch up to him. Yes, the Broncos can perhaps get to him develop and perhaps change up what they are doing, but I suspect next year DEN could struggle to win many more than 5 or 6 games with a much tougher schedule.HomeKC, OAK, SD, CLE, PIT, HOU, TB, NOAwayKC, OAK, SD, BAL, CIN, NE, ATL, CARDepending upon how things are scheduled, DEN could end up with a decent sized losing streak. If that were the case, how long will the front office stick with Tebow? I get that he had a run of late game heroics, but the likelihood of that recurring consistently is mighty slim.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if they finish with only 5 or 6 wins. Worse to first and back happens all the time in the NFL. At this point Denver has to let him fail or succeed on the field. Draft for D this year and if he falls complete on his face then you can move on.

yes, the only way Denver can justify moving on from Tebow - either via benching, trading, or cutting - is to give him a full off-season as QB1 and a loong leash to make it abundantly clear that he can't cut it. If Tebow flops and the team flops, drafting Barkley (or whomever the hot college QB is) will be a no-brainer. Remember what was said at the start of the year - if you play Tebow and he flops, you can get Luck. If you play him and he doesn't flop, we've found a QBotF. Playing Orton did none of those things. As it turned out, we still don't know if Tebow can be the guy. He's shown enough flashes, good and bad, to re-inforce both sides of the argument. IMO, we've got to let this play out.

 

[moleculo]

For fun, let's all post some 2012 projections as of 1-17-2012. Post the minimum stats that you would consider a success, and worth anointing Tebow as the 2013 starter. Assume he starts 16 games, and let's not take team wins into account - what do you need to see to be satisfied.

For reference, here's his pro-rated 2011 stats:

comp att comp % yards ypa td td/a int int % r. att r. yard r. td ypc total TD175 377 46.5% 2406 6.4 17 4.4% 8 2.2% 170 918 8 5.4 25
Here's what I'd like to see:

comp	att	comp %	yards	ypa	td	td/a	int	int %	r. att	r. yard	r. td	ypc	total TD231	420	55.0%	3100	7.4	19	4.5%	9	2.1%	160	832	8	5.2	27

These numbers would not be considered elite by any means and are representative of what you might want from a "caretaker" type of QB. I'm not asking for much here - I'm asking for a completion percentage along the lines of what a bottom 1/3 NFL QB should be able to hit, more attempts (a result of the coaches trusting him a bit more), improvement in ypa which will come along with better completion rate, all while keeping the TD% and int% at roughly where they are now. I think these numbers, coupled with a strong running game and an improved offense, would put the Broncos in the playoffs again.

 

[tom22406]

The thing is unless Fox switches over to a more traditional style of offense the questions will always remain with Tebow.

Running this read option answers nothing IMO except that he is a very good power runner who on occasions can hit the deep ball and some slants.

The problem is it doesn't sound like Fox believes he can be the QB to run a traditional offense so we may never get the true answer as to whether Tebow can be a modern day QB.And yes,I do not believe the offense Fox is running is modern at all.

 

[FavreCo]

The thing is unless Fox switches over to a more traditional style of offense the questions will always remain with Tebow.Running this read option answers nothing IMO except that he is a very good power runner who on occasions can hit the deep ball and some slants.The problem is it doesn't sound like Fox believes he can be the QB to run a traditional offense so we may never get the true answer as to whether Tebow can be a modern day QB.And yes,I do not believe the offense Fox is running is modern at all.

They are in quite the dilemma. Stick with the read-option and then find out that all the teams have figured out out to stop it. Then can it for a traditional offense? What a disaster in the making. Better to go with the traditional offense and see what happens. He's got 9 months with Elway to learn from him.

 

[GregR]

For fun, let's all post some 2012 projections as of 1-17-2012. Post the minimum stats that you would consider a success, and worth anointing Tebow as the 2013 starter. Assume he starts 16 games, and let's not take team wins into account - what do you need to see to be satisfied.For reference, here's his pro-rated 2011 stats:

comp	att	comp %	yards	ypa	td	td/a	int	int %	r. att	r. yard	r. td	ypc	total TD175	377	46.5%	2406	6.4	17	4.4%	8	2.2%	170	918	8	5.4	25

Here's what I'd like to see:

comp	att	comp %	yards	ypa	td	td/a	int	int %	r. att	r. yard	r. td	ypc	total TD231	420	55.0%	3100	7.4	19	4.5%	9	2.1%	160	832	8	5.2	27

These numbers would not be considered elite by any means and are representative of what you might want from a "caretaker" type of QB. I'm not asking for much here - I'm asking for a completion percentage along the lines of what a bottom 1/3 NFL QB should be able to hit, more attempts (a result of the coaches trusting him a bit more), improvement in ypa which will come along with better completion rate, all while keeping the TD% and int% at roughly where they are now. I think these numbers, coupled with a strong running game and an improved offense, would put the Broncos in the playoffs again.

I would include improvement in fumbles. Tebow was the worst fumbler in the NFL over the 11 games that he started, with 13 fumbles and 6 of them lost.

 

[Andrew Garda]

http://www.nytimes.c...ner=rss&emc=rss

"Over all, it wasn't a bad day," he'd said after a 45-10 playoff drubbing by the Patriots. "It depends on what lens you look through."

Tebow, as usual, was looking through the light of a devoutly religious life. In the corridor, he hugged the young man, whose parents, Pat and Tammy, called themselves devout Christians and said their son had been to South Africa on a mission months before his injury.

Soon they were all praying together, while a protective cocoon of Tebow's people formed around the pair, becoming huffy when a couple of reporters stopped to observe.

"Private family time," one said, which was strange, because the scene was a hard-to-miss public spectacle, like so much of the Tebowing phenomenon, and it lasted considerably longer than any Denver drive.

As he always does, he thanked his teammates for their support and effort immediately after praising God. But one was left to surmise that he, the Broncos' purported leader, should have been with them late Saturday night instead of in the corridor tending to his personal business, no matter how giving it was.

There are times when duty to team has to come first. Surely one of them is in the wake of lopsided and season-ending defeat.

The NYTimes should be ashamed of this hit piece. Seriously? This same guy would have killed Tebow as dishonest, disingenuous and selfish if he'd blown the guy off after a loss.This is the sort of thing that shows some people just want to dislike him. Sounds like the writer got rejected for an interview or told to wait and he wasn't down with that at all.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

The thing is unless Fox switches over to a more traditional style of offense the questions will always remain with Tebow.Running this read option answers nothing IMO except that he is a very good power runner who on occasions can hit the deep ball and some slants.The problem is it doesn't sound like Fox believes he can be the QB to run a traditional offense so we may never get the true answer as to whether Tebow can be a modern day QB.And yes,I do not believe the offense Fox is running is modern at all.

They are in quite the dilemma. Stick with the read-option and then find out that all the teams have figured out out to stop it. Then can it for a traditional offense? What a disaster in the making. Better to go with the traditional offense and see what happens. He's got 9 months with Elway to learn from him.

What's a "traditional" offense for purposes of this discussion? Do the Patriots run a traditional offense? Do the Saints? The Colts with Manning at QB? Without looking it up, I'd wager those teams lined up in the shotgun spread as much or more than the Broncos did this year. The difference, of course, is that the Broncos ran the majority of the time out of the formation as opposed to passing. It's not like those passing concepts are unavailable though. Tebow just needs to be able to read defenses at a higher level and be able to pass with the same type of efficiency as the team displyed in the running game.

 

[GeauxTigers]

Honest question, do you think you'll be happy with where the team is in 3-4 years from now?Most fans go through that transition point where anything less than the SB isn't good enough. Saints, Falcons and Steeler fans aren't sitting at home happy about their seasons right now. Brees and Big Ben wont be questioned because they have already won the big game. Matt Ryan is already being questioned if he is good enough to lead a team and he is a better QB (at this point) than Tebow.

You are comparing a team that wasn't even suppose to contend for the AFC West with 3 teams that had Superbowl expectations. The expectations between these teams were a bit different this year. And Denver FAR exceeded expectations.

 

[FavreCo]

The thing is unless Fox switches over to a more traditional style of offense the questions will always remain with Tebow.Running this read option answers nothing IMO except that he is a very good power runner who on occasions can hit the deep ball and some slants.The problem is it doesn't sound like Fox believes he can be the QB to run a traditional offense so we may never get the true answer as to whether Tebow can be a modern day QB.And yes,I do not believe the offense Fox is running is modern at all.

They are in quite the dilemma. Stick with the read-option and then find out that all the teams have figured out out to stop it. Then can it for a traditional offense? What a disaster in the making. Better to go with the traditional offense and see what happens. He's got 9 months with Elway to learn from him.

What's a "traditional" offense for purposes of this discussion? Do the Patriots run a traditional offense? Do the Saints? The Colts with Manning at QB? Without looking it up, I'd wager those teams lined up in the shotgun spread as much or more than the Broncos did this year. The difference, of course, is that the Broncos ran the majority of the time out of the formation as opposed to passing. It's not like those passing concepts are unavailable though. Tebow just needs to be able to read defenses at a higher level and be able to pass with the same type of efficiency as the team displyed in the running game.

Just responding to the last guy's statement. Let me reprase it for you to non read-option since it will go the way of the wildcat.

 

[GeauxTigers]

The Broncos need to upgrade their defense before worrying about the offense. Joe Montana couldn't have QBed that team to a Superbowl.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

By the way, I disagree that Tebow can't throw the ball well or accurately. He can and has on some of the game-winning comeback drives he engineered. His problem is one part consistency and one part experience/confidence. If he can practice on the passing game this offseason and improve his consistency, with someone like Elway mentoring him on mechanics, I think the sky is the limit for this kid. We'll see.

Do you know how hard it would be for a QB to change his mechanics at his age(will be 25 next season)? It's difficult to change mechanics(throwing motion is the main one) for a upperclassman college QB, much less a 3rd year NFL QB. He's been throwing one way his whole life and now you want to change it.Many things are wrong with Tebow:-Very long release...this is the fall of Byron Leftwich. The longer the release the longer reaction time for a DB=more INT's and pass breakups-Inconsistent Feet/throwing motion...sometimes he does good stuff, but more often than not he doesn't. Which affects his accuracy.-Not the tallest QB 6'2 and has short arms...which leads to more deflections at the LOS and not being able to see downfield. This is where his scrambling ability actually helps him see his targets.-Never playing in a conventional offense. Florida spread/run...Denver whatever you want to call it. How can he learn about proper QB play, progressions, etc without playing in a legit offense.Lastly John Elway isn't going to help Tim Tebow with his mechanics. Are you kidding me? That's the coaches job, not the team president.

 

[tom22406]

The thing is unless Fox switches over to a more traditional style of offense the questions will always remain with Tebow.Running this read option answers nothing IMO except that he is a very good power runner who on occasions can hit the deep ball and some slants.The problem is it doesn't sound like Fox believes he can be the QB to run a traditional offense so we may never get the true answer as to whether Tebow can be a modern day QB.And yes,I do not believe the offense Fox is running is modern at all.

They are in quite the dilemma. Stick with the read-option and then find out that all the teams have figured out out to stop it. Then can it for a traditional offense? What a disaster in the making. Better to go with the traditional offense and see what happens. He's got 9 months with Elway to learn from him.

What's a "traditional" offense for purposes of this discussion? Do the Patriots run a traditional offense? Do the Saints? The Colts with Manning at QB? Without looking it up, I'd wager those teams lined up in the shotgun spread as much or more than the Broncos did this year. The difference, of course, is that the Broncos ran the majority of the time out of the formation as opposed to passing. It's not like those passing concepts are unavailable though. Tebow just needs to be able to read defenses at a higher level and be able to pass with the same type of efficiency as the team displyed in the running game.

Just responding to the last guy's statement. Let me reprase it for you to non read-option since it will go the way of the wildcat.

I actually think it can work with the right QB in the NFL.Cam Newton has the right skills to pull this off IMO my belief is Tebow just is so bad at throwing no team is gonna believe they will do anything besides run on 1st and 2nd down.Cam on the other hand is the dual threat right now.He can do both and do them very well.

 

[GeauxTigers]

Apparently what I learned from the 4 letter network this morning is that the reason for Tebow's demise is the serious lack of offensive talent around him. Football is always a team game until Tebow plays then it is 1 guy with 50 some piece of crap around him

i blame the defense more than anything else. Pats could have put up 70 if they wanted. It was pathetic in the 1st half. They made converted TE Hernandez look like Walter Payton. They were missing tackles, blowing coverages, not getting pressure, etc...Denver's offense is conservative and needs the D to play well if they are going to win games. That is how this team is built. Denver is not build to come back from large deficits.

 

[Andrew Garda]

Lastly John Elway isn't going to help Tim Tebow with his mechanics. Are you kidding me? That's the coaches job, not the team president.

I'm sure there are lots of things Elway will do with Tebow this off-season, which he has repeatedly said he would spend helping Tebow become a better QB.We can debate if it's possible to change mechanics (at his age, very difficult IMO) but to say Elway wouldn't try because that's a coach's job is to ignore the fact that he's going to help him with everything. That's the whole point of them working together (likely with the coaches as well).

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Lastly John Elway isn't going to help Tim Tebow with his mechanics. Are you kidding me? That's the coaches job, not the team president.

I'm sure there are lots of things Elway will do with Tebow this off-season, which he has repeatedly said he would spend helping Tebow become a better QB.We can debate if it's possible to change mechanics (at his age, very difficult IMO) but to say Elway wouldn't try because that's a coach's job is to ignore the fact that he's going to help him with everything. That's the whole point of them working together (likely with the coaches as well).

I'm not a Denver fan, so I won't pretend to be. I would just be hard pressed to find any president of a major company helping out any lower level guy with their job, when they have a supervisor. Was Michael Jordan teaching Bobcats how to shoot a jumper?I dunno maybe he will, I have my doubts.

 

[Andrew Garda]

Lastly John Elway isn't going to help Tim Tebow with his mechanics. Are you kidding me? That's the coaches job, not the team president.

I'm sure there are lots of things Elway will do with Tebow this off-season, which he has repeatedly said he would spend helping Tebow become a better QB.We can debate if it's possible to change mechanics (at his age, very difficult IMO) but to say Elway wouldn't try because that's a coach's job is to ignore the fact that he's going to help him with everything. That's the whole point of them working together (likely with the coaches as well).

I'm not a Denver fan, so I won't pretend to be. I would just be hard pressed to find any president of a major company helping out any lower level guy with their job, when they have a supervisor. Was Michael Jordan teaching Bobcats how to shoot a jumper?I dunno maybe he will, I have my doubts.

If need be I believe Jordan would mentor and help a youngster out. However someone like Tebow would never get a look in the NBA. Too few jobs.http://kansascity.sbnation.com/kans...r-tim-tebow-on-technique-in-broncos-offseason

Anyway - Doubt no more! Elway is in, starting with technique and footwork!

As always, I remind folks that sports and entertainment teams and businesses don't work like any other. Besides I'm sure plenty of

 

[Spiderman]

John Elway was out today and said that he would work directly with Tebow in the passing game to improve his pocket presence.

It is interesting to note that Elway's first season, he was also called into question for his pocket passing ability due to his desire to scramble at the slightest hint of pressure. Elways started in 10 games as a rookie, threw for less yards (by 100 to Tebow), less TD's (7 to Tebow's 12) and more INT's (14 to Tebow's 6). He had a worse completion percentage, far lower passer rating, and about 1/7th of Tebow's rushing stats.

Interesting…

 

[Max Power]

Honest question, do you think you'll be happy with where the team is in 3-4 years from now?Most fans go through that transition point where anything less than the SB isn't good enough. Saints, Falcons and Steeler fans aren't sitting at home happy about their seasons right now. Brees and Big Ben wont be questioned because they have already won the big game. Matt Ryan is already being questioned if he is good enough to lead a team and he is a better QB (at this point) than Tebow.

You are comparing a team that wasn't even suppose to contend for the AFC West with 3 teams that had Superbowl expectations. The expectations between these teams were a bit different this year. And Denver FAR exceeded expectations.

Yeah and what I'm asking is do you think Tebow can be a QB to give the Broncos Superbowl expectations in 3-4 years? Do you think the Broncos would be best served to put all their eggs in the Tebow basket for the near future.

 

[moleculo]

Honest question, do you think you'll be happy with where the team is in 3-4 years from now?

Most fans go through that transition point where anything less than the SB isn't good enough. Saints, Falcons and Steeler fans aren't sitting at home happy about their seasons right now. Brees and Big Ben wont be questioned because they have already won the big game. Matt Ryan is already being questioned if he is good enough to lead a team and he is a better QB (at this point) than Tebow.

You are comparing a team that wasn't even suppose to contend for the AFC West with 3 teams that had Superbowl expectations. The expectations between these teams were a bit different this year. And Denver FAR exceeded expectations.

Yeah and what I'm asking is do you think Tebow can be a QB to give the Broncos Superbowl expectations in 3-4 years? Do you think the Broncos would be best served to put all their eggs in the Tebow basket for the near future.

IF Tebow can progress, year after year, the way I think he's capable of, than it's an easy yes. If Tebow progresses the way Favreco thinks he will, easy no.We will have a better answer to this question at this time next year; heck, we should have a better answer by the bye-week.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Lastly John Elway isn't going to help Tim Tebow with his mechanics. Are you kidding me? That's the coaches job, not the team president.

I'm sure there are lots of things Elway will do with Tebow this off-season, which he has repeatedly said he would spend helping Tebow become a better QB.We can debate if it's possible to change mechanics (at his age, very difficult IMO) but to say Elway wouldn't try because that's a coach's job is to ignore the fact that he's going to help him with everything. That's the whole point of them working together (likely with the coaches as well).

I'm not a Denver fan, so I won't pretend to be. I would just be hard pressed to find any president of a major company helping out any lower level guy with their job, when they have a supervisor. Was Michael Jordan teaching Bobcats how to shoot a jumper?I dunno maybe he will, I have my doubts.

If need be I believe Jordan would mentor and help a youngster out. However someone like Tebow would never get a look in the NBA. Too few jobs.http://kansascity.sbnation.com/kans...r-tim-tebow-on-technique-in-broncos-offseason

Anyway - Doubt no more! Elway is in, starting with technique and footwork!

As always, I remind folks that sports and entertainment teams and businesses don't work like any other. Besides I'm sure plenty of

OK John Elway may help him, I had much more to the discussion than this.

 

[munchkin]

Apparently what I learned from the 4 letter network this morning is that the reason for Tebow's demise is the serious lack of offensive talent around him. Football is always a team game until Tebow plays then it is 1 guy with 50 some piece of crap around him

i blame the defense more than anything else. Pats could have put up 70 if they wanted. It was pathetic in the 1st half. They made converted TE Hernandez look like Walter Payton. They were missing tackles, blowing coverages, not getting pressure, etc...Denver's offense is conservative and needs the D to play well if they are going to win games. That is how this team is built. Denver is not build to come back from large deficits.

They are not built to come back from large deficits, fine, but they also couldn't score against one of the worst defenses in the League, or so we are told. The Patriots had some very bad defensive statistics and were particularly suceptible in their defensive back field. Yet the Broncos scored 10 points; seven on a short field, courtesy of a turnover on defense. So what happened to the offense the rest of the game? Couldn't they have put up another 10-14 points and made the game more respectable? The defense was rolled; the offense was rolled.Tebow waas a large part of the problem. Certainly not the sole problem; but he wasn't the answer either.