This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Tebow's fantasy floor is not 15, or whatever he scored yesterday in as bad a game as you will ever see a QB play. His floor is zero. Because he cannot continue to play that bad, and play. I am not a Tebow fan, but I felt bad for him yesterday. Fox should have pulled him.
If you lost by less than a point this week and started Brees over Tebow, you're probably kicking yourself. My facetious comment beats your facetious comment.
This is a good list of names, because it shows how the NFL has changed. If you can't keep it above 60% these days, you can't play.
Yeah definitely, just an odd thing for Joe Summer to claim.
Now it's a 60% cutoff? I don't have the time to list the amount of QBs who have kept their job after a season with a sub-60% completion rate.
Yes, but if he cant find a way to be useful NFL QB, then how long will his FF stats matter? Plus, I assume that most FF players are football fans first and foremost. Maybe not!
He only needs to complete 50% of his passes to be a successful quarterback. In order to compare him you have to take away all of the quarterbacks that aren't capable of also being 1000 yard rushers. It's hard to defend Tebow with how bad he's played but until he gets to play 4 or 5 games without taking single snap from under center I can't throw in the towel. The moment he takes a snap under the center the coach has failed in giving his team the best chance to win. The fact is he doesn't have a coach competent enough to put him in a position to succeed so it's basically a moot point.
While I don't think the game plan yesterday helped Tebow in large part I cannot blame Fox or the coaching staff for the fact Tebow is so bad throwing the football. That's entirely on him. I agree that if he can complete at least 50% of his passes that will go a long way toward him keeping the job for at least the remainder of this season. However, I think it's a legitimate question to ask if he's even capable of completing that poor of a percentage.
I agree, if he doesn't succeed as a quarterback he won't get to play so fantasy stats won't matter. But so far he's still the starting quarterback. I'm sure that moss FF players are football fans first but this message board is for FF more than real football.
I didn't mean to get caught up in your discussion. Sorry. But the fact is that completion percentages have gone up and up over the years. Elway could get away with it--in 1987. Either way, there are two different discussions going on. People are talking about how bad Tebow is, and then there is you--talking about how many fantasy points he had. Real glad he outscored Brees yesterday, happy for the Tebow owners, but if are planning on making the fantasy playoffs, might want to roster Brady Quinn, to enusre you have at least one starter rostered.
I can blame the coaching staff every time he lines up under center. He will not succeed unless he's in a spread offense in shotgun, period. I don't expect him to be effective under center and when he isn't effective as he hasn't been I'm not surprised other than at the fact he lined up under center in the first place.
If this is the case, and Tebow cannot succeed under center, then he definitely is never going to make it as a QB.
Until he loses his starting job. There are a lot of guys who matter from a fantasy perspective who you don't expect to keep their place more than a couple weeks. Injury replacements come to mind.
Bingo. And wasn't a stat posted which showed Tebow was in the shotgun on the majority of the snaps yesterday? If so, then the coaching staff did try to get him in a more favorable situation. You can't go in the shotgun on every snap. It essentially removes play action from the game plan and that makes a team much easier to defend. It sure as heck wasn't the coaching staff's fault on the Pick 6. That was a freaking God-awful pass. He was in the shotgun on that play if I recall correctly.I'm a Tebow owner so I'm well aware that how bad he is from an NFL perspective doesn't mean he's incapable of being a good/great fantasy QB. He's pretty much proven that in every game before yesterday (at least in my league's scoring). But if he cannot play the position and execute the most fundamental aspects (such as completing passes) then one has to wonder how long he'll keep the starting job. He doesn't do any fantasy owner any good sitting on the bench.
This is the point I make. Not even that he gets benched, but that defenses are not surprised by him. The days of 20 FF points regardless of QB performance are probably going to be pretty few and far betweenPlus, I am a football fan as well as fantasy player. The thing I hate the most is watching a capable qb in orton being replaced because that is what fans want, with the unfortunate side effect of killing the value of the skill players over the whole team
No, I'm saying that he won't last more than a year at sub-55%. Few quarterbacks do these days.You shouldn't be calling an argument "stupid" if you can't even comprehend it.
I did comprehend it found an exception to your argument, then you changed it. Now you've changed it again although closer to the initial argument.
I do agree with your newest argument, if his completion % stays low he probably loses his job quickly.
Watching NFL Live, and Hoge and others were saying if you watched coaches tape, there were players running wide open for Denver. But Tebow couldn't find them. It is starting to sound like Tebow doesn't know the offense.
He's been the starter for two weeks. I don't know why he isn't allowed time to learn it. Is he ruining the Broncos chances at a Super Bowl this year?
Yeah Silver's piece definitely lends itself toward the idea that cutting Tebow now (or trading him if you can find anyone willing to give you anything for him) is the move fantasy owners need to make since it seems it's just a matter of time before Tebow gets benched.As far as whether he knows the offense or not, he may not but two things he can't do are throw the ball and go through progressions. Those are two fundamental aspects of the job and he's horrible at both of them. It's hard to see him improving in the basics in the time he may need to save his job.
He definitely can't succeed under center. Why does he have to play under center to be an NFL quarterback?
Because NFL offenses require the QB to play under center.
Of course not but I'll repeat a point I made earlier - if Fox continues to start someone at any position who is so clearly awful, he runs the risk of losing the respect of his players. The players aren't dumb (well not all of them
). They can see when a player stinks and shouldn't be on the field. If Tebow shows no improvement in the next couple of games and continues to stink and Fox continues to start him, the players will correctly decide that performance on the field means nothing. That's a pretty significant thing no team wants to have happen. And this isn't the same as Gabbert in Jacksonville because Tebow is not Fox/Elway's guy. They have no allegiance to him. They pretty much caved to public pressure to start Tebow and at no time have really shown any signs they believe in him. So it wouldn't be a surprise at all to see him get benched.
Time to pull his nose out of the bible and put it into the playbook.
It's a requirement? 5 yard penalty?
Haw haw haw. No, it's not.It's just that every other successful NFL QB in the history of anything has been able to play from under center. Aside from that annoying little fact, no reason why Tebow should ever play under center again. Bill Walsh always talked about how he disliked the shotgun, and he had a lot of reasons. There is an entire library of plays you cannot run from it, a lot of play action and misdirection is out the window, draw plays, power running, on and on. Not to mention the fact that the center and QB have to essentially complete a pass to start every play.
The QB eyes are on the ball and not on the defense for that short - but important - blip of time that it takes to catch the snap.Back to Tebow, you guys can say what you want, but he STILL gives the Broncos their best chance to win... the Luck Sweepstakes.
So, there's no chance that the most dominant spread offense college quarterback of all time could make it succeed in the NFL? The cliche is fitting that there's a first for everything. I'm not saying it would work but if it's the only chance he has of succeeding, I don't see why they wouldn't try. A report even came out that Fox was going to a college style offense, yet after the first possession he never went exclusively to it again.
How about this: Since Kyle Orton can run the offense as it exists, with the 10 other starters on offense, I don't see why they wouldn't put him at QB instead of a guy who can't succeed with the offense and team as it is.
What would that accomplish? There's a 0% chance Orton is their quarterback of the future. Even if it's a 0.1% chance that Tebow is their guy it would be worth the risk.
Sounds like Quinn's the next man up, not Orton.
They were running it!For pete's sake, Fox just didn't run it exclusively. He only ran it MOST of the time. But the coach isn't competent, because he didn't run it every single play? Listen, that is just ridiculous.
The moment he lines up under center I believe the coach made a bad play call. It's basically throwing away a down. If you disagree, that's fine, but my opinion is far from ridiculous.
Not really.
Does he have any chance at success when he lines up under center? No. So, why is it crazy to say it's bad idea for him to ever line up under center?
And this spins back to my comment about Tebow not being able to make it if he cannot play under center. You are saying you think he needs to do something no QB has ever done before, in order to succeed, correct? He needs to run the spread all the time, every time, right?Well, I don't think that is going to work. And I have history on my side. Thus far, the idea of running a spread option has been a ridiculous idea. You don't like that word, I'll use a different one. There are offenses in college that won't work in the pros. No one switched to the wishbone triple option because Jamelle Holloway was the best ever at it at Oklahoma back in the day. The defenders are too big and too fast. Tebow is a tough guy, but the QB in that spread option nonsense is going to take some serious shots, in the NFL. Running QBs, it has been proven time and time and time again, they have to become comfortable in the pocket to succeed. You can say there's a first time for everything, but there isn't. There is not a first time for everything. Some things never happen.
If you want to get into metaphysics then yes, there is a first for everything. I'm not saying he will succeed, I'm only saying I know how he won't and that's running a traditional offense. Has anyone ever failed running strictly a college spread offense in the NFL? That's a real question, I don't know the answer.
No matter how many snaps he gets and no matter how poorly he does there will be people saying he didn't get a fair chance. According to them if he does well it's because he's good, and if he does lousy it's because he's a victim of 'haters' and bad coaches and bad players and not getting a fair chance. He's being set up for martyrdom.
Because he's not the only player on the team.You don't install a new offense midseason, ask every other offensive player to unlearn what they knew before, then learn something new and perform well at it, just for one guy.He can either learn his position and play it well enough to keep his roster spot or move on. Just like everyone else.
He's not just one guy, he's the quarterback. He was named the starter with two weeks to put in a new offense. How long did they have for training camp this year?
Why would the Redskins put in an entire new offense for John Beck?
The same amount as Cam Newton, and every other rookie QB that is playing better than him?
Really? Because I liked his rant. More good info in that post than a slew of threads put together. And since I've been a football fan for 40 plus years and a FF player for only a few, I can say this is much more interesting to me than who is the next projected fantasy stud. Rivalries and real football talk is much better than nerdy ff talk (which I like too, but is less satisfying).
Eli Manning.
Yeah, his passing is his biggest problem. You can find a lot of passers like that, but most of them are playing in the Men's Pulled Hamstring League down at the local park on Saturday mornings. And I don't even mean to joke about it. He simply has not shown me he can make the throws I have been told for years that every decent NFL QB needs to make.
The first time Eli Manning's adjusted yards per attempt were above Tebow's current career number was 2009 according to profootballreference.
