Tim Tebow Rookie Haircut (1 Viewer)

[CravenM]

There's a reason why a guy like Hines Ward has multiple Rings and a guy like Terrel Owens has none...

You're right; there is a reason Hines Ward has multiple rings and TO doesn't. Actually, there are hundreds of reasons, and most of them boil down to the fact that Pittsburgh has been an extremely well-run franchise for a decade or so. They've put together a bunch of extremely talented teams and enjoyed some fantastic coaching. Whether or not Hines Ward was a good teammate or submitted to mild hazing is a microscopic part of that equation, just like Terrell Owens being self-centered is an almost non-existent part of an enormous equation that explains the performances of a dozen different 53-man rosters across several franchises with entirely different coaching staffs. Be reasonable. Similarly, the fact that Tebow is a super terrific happy high five football player isn't going to matter. Being an NFL quality QB may actually matter, though, and that one is way up in the air. Likewise, Dez Bryant's attitude towards mild hazing is probably not going to matter when he's making secondaries look silly on Sunday.

Winning alone will lead to good "chemistry," but "chemistry" alone will lead to a lottery pick.

John Schuerholz, GM of the Atlanta Braves for so long, insisted on having good team chemistry as a major part of a winning team formula (i.e. Goodbye Deion Sanders, Kenny Lofton, etc.). I'm not sure if the same is true for baseball as it is for football but to dismiss team chemistry seems a little foolhardy to me.There's been about a billion different opinions on Tebow in the NFL in the last year before he's even taken a snap in the NFL - this is not a Shark Thought. It's the thought of some anonymous guy spouting opinion who's never played the game and hoping that he's right. If Tebow throws a TD and runs in 2 TDs the first week of the season, that same couch owner is going to be scooping him up and shutting his mouth.

The fact is that whether Tebow throws 3 TDs in the next pre-season game or 3 INTs, it's not going to have a single hint as to his future success or failure in the NFL.

 

[Bri]

There's a reason why a guy like Hines Ward has multiple Rings and a guy like Terrel Owens has none...

You're right; there is a reason Hines Ward has multiple rings and TO doesn't. Actually, there are hundreds of reasons, and most of them boil down to the fact that Pittsburgh has been an extremely well-run franchise for a decade or so. They've put together a bunch of extremely talented teams and enjoyed some fantastic coaching.

The same description could be used about the 49ers when Owens was new to the league.As far as NFL franchises go, Dallas and Philly have to be ranked fairly high as far as past success rate. Sure their fans gripe but that's only because they often come just shy of their goal. The Lions fans would probably offer their right leg to finish that high a few years in a row.

I don't think this is a decent comparison point.

 

[destro]

There's a reason why a guy like Hines Ward has multiple Rings and a guy like Terrel Owens has none...

You're right; there is a reason Hines Ward has multiple rings and TO doesn't. Actually, there are hundreds of reasons, and most of them boil down to the fact that Pittsburgh has been an extremely well-run franchise for a decade or so. They've put together a bunch of extremely talented teams and enjoyed some fantastic coaching. Whether or not Hines Ward was a good teammate or submitted to mild hazing is a microscopic part of that equation, just like Terrell Owens being self-centered is an almost non-existent part of an enormous equation that explains the performances of a dozen different 53-man rosters across several franchises with entirely different coaching staffs. Be reasonable. Similarly, the fact that Tebow is a super terrific happy high five football player isn't going to matter. Being an NFL quality QB may actually matter, though, and that one is way up in the air. Likewise, Dez Bryant's attitude towards mild hazing is probably not going to matter when he's making secondaries look silly on Sunday.

Winning alone will lead to good "chemistry," but "chemistry" alone will lead to a lottery pick.

John Schuerholz, GM of the Atlanta Braves for so long, insisted on having good team chemistry as a major part of a winning team formula (i.e. Goodbye Deion Sanders, Kenny Lofton, etc.). I'm not sure if the same is true for baseball as it is for football but to dismiss team chemistry seems a little foolhardy to me.There's been about a billion different opinions on Tebow in the NFL in the last year before he's even taken a snap in the NFL - this is not a Shark Thought. It's the thought of some anonymous guy spouting opinion who's never played the game and hoping that he's right. If Tebow throws a TD and runs in 2 TDs the first week of the season, that same couch owner is going to be scooping him up and shutting his mouth.

The fact is that whether Tebow throws 3 TDs in the next pre-season game or 3 INTs, it's not going to have a single hint as to his future success or failure in the NFL.

I wasn't aware you were the authority on the official Shark Thought ™. On behalf of the whole forum, thanks for the enlightenment. Your single appeal to authority (a baseball GM, no less) and baseless personal attack definitely drove your point (?) home...

 

[destro]

There's a reason why a guy like Hines Ward has multiple Rings and a guy like Terrel Owens has none...

You're right; there is a reason Hines Ward has multiple rings and TO doesn't. Actually, there are hundreds of reasons, and most of them boil down to the fact that Pittsburgh has been an extremely well-run franchise for a decade or so. They've put together a bunch of extremely talented teams and enjoyed some fantastic coaching.

The same description could be used about the 49ers when Owens was new to the league.As far as NFL franchises go, Dallas and Philly have to be ranked fairly high as far as past success rate. Sure their fans gripe but that's only because they often come just shy of their goal. The Lions fans would probably offer their right leg to finish that high a few years in a row.

I don't think this is a decent comparison point.

So, in other words, you think Terrell Owens being a self-centered guy prevented all of his teams from winning the Super Bowl? You're saying that TO's selfish attitude is the reason why the Eagles couldn't seal the deal, even though TO clearly had a great game after having a near-miraculous recovery from an injury that several doctors told him would have surely kept him out of the Super Bowl? Because that's what the other guy was heavily implying, and that's what I was refuting. If it wasn't clear, I was implying that, of the thousands of different variables that end up factoring into whether or not a team wins a Super Bowl in a given year (many of which must be chalked up as pure random chance), the perceived selfishness of a singular player out of 53 is exceptionally minor. If you disagree with that, feel free to explain...

 

[cvnpoka]

There's a reason why a guy like Hines Ward has multiple Rings and a guy like Terrel Owens has none...

You're right; there is a reason Hines Ward has multiple rings and TO doesn't. Actually, there are hundreds of reasons, and most of them boil down to the fact that Pittsburgh has been an extremely well-run franchise for a decade or so. They've put together a bunch of extremely talented teams and enjoyed some fantastic coaching.

The same description could be used about the 49ers when Owens was new to the league.As far as NFL franchises go, Dallas and Philly have to be ranked fairly high as far as past success rate. Sure their fans gripe but that's only because they often come just shy of their goal. The Lions fans would probably offer their right leg to finish that high a few years in a row.

I don't think this is a decent comparison point.

good point. the difference between owens and hines ward is why the steelers titled and owens teams dont. its pretty obv and elementary. those other teams were well run until they decided to sign a perennial 1200 yrd 10 td wr. its pretty clear that hines wards chemistry puts his defense over the hump so that guys like harrison, polamalu and foote completely shut down the run and harass the qb. his smilling nudges the refs to make ticky tac calls in his teams favor in the super bowl and even overturn obv calls vs the colts in the afccg. its something that cant be measured, its intangible. the proof is in the pudding. rangzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[cvnpoka]

There's a reason why a guy like Hines Ward has multiple Rings and a guy like Terrel Owens has none...

You're right; there is a reason Hines Ward has multiple rings and TO doesn't. Actually, there are hundreds of reasons, and most of them boil down to the fact that Pittsburgh has been an extremely well-run franchise for a decade or so. They've put together a bunch of extremely talented teams and enjoyed some fantastic coaching. Whether or not Hines Ward was a good teammate or submitted to mild hazing is a microscopic part of that equation, just like Terrell Owens being self-centered is an almost non-existent part of an enormous equation that explains the performances of a dozen different 53-man rosters across several franchises with entirely different coaching staffs. Be reasonable. Similarly, the fact that Tebow is a super terrific happy high five football player isn't going to matter. Being an NFL quality QB may actually matter, though, and that one is way up in the air. Likewise, Dez Bryant's attitude towards mild hazing is probably not going to matter when he's making secondaries look silly on Sunday.

Winning alone will lead to good "chemistry," but "chemistry" alone will lead to a lottery pick.

John Schuerholz, GM of the Atlanta Braves for so long, insisted on having good team chemistry as a major part of a winning team formula (i.e. Goodbye Deion Sanders, Kenny Lofton, etc.). I'm not sure if the same is true for baseball as it is for football but to dismiss team chemistry seems a little foolhardy to me.There's been about a billion different opinions on Tebow in the NFL in the last year before he's even taken a snap in the NFL - this is not a Shark Thought. It's the thought of some anonymous guy spouting opinion who's never played the game and hoping that he's right. If Tebow throws a TD and runs in 2 TDs the first week of the season, that same couch owner is going to be scooping him up and shutting his mouth.

The fact is that whether Tebow throws 3 TDs in the next pre-season game or 3 INTs, it's not going to have a single hint as to his future success or failure in the NFL.

braves are the biggest chokers oat bra. over a 14 yr stretch (disregarding one yr in the middle) they made the playoffs every yr and avged 97.3 wins and won only a single rangzzz.not the best argument for chemistry wins rangzzz imo. more like chemistry makes you chronically underachieve when it matters.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

There's a reason why a guy like Hines Ward has multiple Rings and a guy like Terrel Owens has none...

Hines Ward let his teammates give him a crazy hair cut? Or he carried Louis Lipp's bags? Paid the dinner bill as a rookie?

Football is a team sport.

Now you're getting it...

 

[Carolina Hustler]

There's a reason why a guy like Hines Ward has multiple Rings and a guy like Terrel Owens has none...

You're right; there is a reason Hines Ward has multiple rings and TO doesn't. Actually, there are hundreds of reasons, and most of them boil down to the fact that Pittsburgh has been an extremely well-run franchise for a decade or so. They've put together a bunch of extremely talented teams and enjoyed some fantastic coaching. Whether or not Hines Ward was a good teammate or submitted to mild hazing is a microscopic part of that equation, just like Terrell Owens being self-centered is an almost non-existent part of an enormous equation that explains the performances of a dozen different 53-man rosters across several franchises with entirely different coaching staffs. Be reasonable. Similarly, the fact that Tebow is a super terrific happy high five football player isn't going to matter. Being an NFL quality QB may actually matter, though, and that one is way up in the air. Likewise, Dez Bryant's attitude towards mild hazing is probably not going to matter when he's making secondaries look silly on Sunday.

Winning alone will lead to good "chemistry," but "chemistry" alone will lead to a lottery pick.

A players attitude in general would be the issue. Not the attitude towards hazing. If a player is prideful, selfish, etc.. it will show through in decisions he makes..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

There's a reason why a guy like Hines Ward has multiple Rings and a guy like Terrel Owens has none...

Because Hines Ward is consistently voted by his peers as the dirtiest player in the league?Man I can't stand Tebow. It has nothing to do with who he worships, it has everything to do with the media's worship of him.I was at the 2008 national championship game in Miami. Anyone who was half paying attention not on Tebow's jock would feel the same as me. It was awful what ESPN was doing. There is a reason guys like Sam Bradford and Colt McCoy dislike him.

Please provide a link to Ward being voted the dirtiest player in the league and one for Bradford and McCoy hating Tebow... And you hating Tebow based on ESPN's coverage tells a lot about you....

 

[Bri]

There's a reason why a guy like Hines Ward has multiple Rings and a guy like Terrel Owens has none...

You're right; there is a reason Hines Ward has multiple rings and TO doesn't. Actually, there are hundreds of reasons, and most of them boil down to the fact that Pittsburgh has been an extremely well-run franchise for a decade or so. They've put together a bunch of extremely talented teams and enjoyed some fantastic coaching.

The same description could be used about the 49ers when Owens was new to the league.As far as NFL franchises go, Dallas and Philly have to be ranked fairly high as far as past success rate. Sure their fans gripe but that's only because they often come just shy of their goal. The Lions fans would probably offer their right leg to finish that high a few years in a row.

I don't think this is a decent comparison point.

So, in other words, you think Terrell Owens being a self-centered guy prevented all of his teams from winning the Super Bowl? You're saying that TO's selfish attitude is the reason why the Eagles couldn't seal the deal, even though TO clearly had a great game after having a near-miraculous recovery from an injury that several doctors told him would have surely kept him out of the Super Bowl? Because that's what the other guy was heavily implying, and that's what I was refuting. If it wasn't clear, I was implying that, of the thousands of different variables that end up factoring into whether or not a team wins a Super Bowl in a given year (many of which must be chalked up as pure random chance), the perceived selfishness of a singular player out of 53 is exceptionally minor. If you disagree with that, feel free to explain...

Not -in other words-.You mentioned quite a few points here. I didn't have an issue with anything different than what I stated above nor did I have it with your entire argument which is why (and common around here) I only snipped part. I simply didn't think that was a fair comparison point.

I think it's rare in a large team sport like football, for one player to be the reason for success or demise. Just a couple of examples-Brady's awesome season and he should have won, but the Giants did. A quarterback is often the cog for me that would make this all-important argument work it just didn't that year. I mean without Peyton I doubt the Colts would have ever won a Supe.

Wide Receiver is an important position for the passing game and possibly a bonus in the run game. Ward has been a phenomenal blocker but does it matter if they run opposite or just inside him and his block didn't gain the RB any extra yards? Maybe for intimidation or the DC considering a sub...that's about it.

Many of the best WRs of all time were on plenty of losing teams. Bruce's 1800 yard season (1782?) wasn't part of the fastest show on turf, for example. Largent had mr. fumble or INT David Krieg for a QB.

I don't even think young Owens or Ward were the best WRs on their team. Plaxico and Rice were, so to discuss them carrying a team then seems a bit silly.

I used to like 3rd down catch percentage as an indicator of a WRs impact as it kept drives alive but I'm fairly certain Chrebet would be one of the best ever in that line of thinking.

I don't see how you can slice and dice WRs and find a resulting huge impact. Belichick and Parcells had plenty of success with lesser WRs proving this point.

WRs are usually gravy IMO.

 

[fatness]

He's crowning!

 

[Jolly Swagman]

I was looking for the TO, Dez, Hines Ward thread, kinda hard to find.

Joe should title his topics better.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Man I can't stand Tebow. It has nothing to do with who he worships, it has everything to do with the media's worship of him.I was at the 2008 national championship game in Miami. Anyone who was half paying attention not on Tebow's jock would feel the same as me. It was awful what ESPN was doing. There is a reason guys like Sam Bradford and Colt McCoy dislike him.

Seems to me like you need to work on where you direct your hatred. Just read what you wrote again.Then again, I suppose I would hate Sam Bradford and Troy Smith like you hate Tebow if they didn't completely nut up the first time they had to play against a real defense

 

[Joe Bryant]

Please tone it down. This was probably a bad idea for a thread, just thought it was interesting.

J

 

[shredhead]

I was looking for the TO, Dez, Hines Ward thread, kinda hard to find.Joe should title his topics better.

He's crowning!

 

[CravenM]

John Schuerholz, GM of the Atlanta Braves for so long, insisted on having good team chemistry as a major part of a winning team formula (i.e. Goodbye Deion Sanders, Kenny Lofton, etc.). I'm not sure if the same is true for baseball as it is for football but to dismiss team chemistry seems a little foolhardy to me.There's been about a billion different opinions on Tebow in the NFL in the last year before he's even taken a snap in the NFL - this is not a Shark Thought. It's the thought of some anonymous guy spouting opinion who's never played the game and hoping that he's right. If Tebow throws a TD and runs in 2 TDs the first week of the season, that same couch owner is going to be scooping him up and shutting his mouth.The fact is that whether Tebow throws 3 TDs in the next pre-season game or 3 INTs, it's not going to have a single hint as to his future success or failure in the NFL.

I wasn't aware you were the authority on the official Shark Thought ™. On behalf of the whole forum, thanks for the enlightenment. Your single appeal to authority (a baseball GM, no less) and baseless personal attack definitely drove your point (?) home...

After re-reading my post, I realize that it was interpreted in a different way than I had intended - my fault - I apologize.I had intended to speak in general to the masses who were poo-pooing Tebow's future in the NFL, and quite adamantly in many cases.